Coari Red spotted

[hekdiscus]

Dear Wild Discus lovers.

see the Coari Greens red spotted :)

[kitykatfunkiehat]

Those are VERY cool! I love them!

[Jhhnn]

Very, very nice fish. quite distinctive. thanks for the pics!

[vera]

So many spots !!
just wait for them to get really green
TC

[wildthing]

Very nice.
Are they Coari because of their nice markings or because they are from a river near Coari?

[Eddie]

Nice red spotted greens. ;)

[Dutch dude]

Realy nice looking RSG! Stunning fish you have there! Over here the Coari would probably been sold as Tefe RSG ;)

Unfortunately we don't see wilds like that in Holland. Maybe Hustinx in Belgium. Your fish seem to be very high qualety and I'm sure your costomers are very pleased with them!

Since you collect the fish your self,....can you provide us more info abouth the water readings? I'm particulary interested in the Cuipeua aria (I hope I spelled it correctly). I like to know the PH and GH and the (average) temperature during spawning period. Do you happen to have those parameters?

[milton]

lovely wilds hudson, are these the ones paul from discus south having from you?

[hekdiscus]

Thank you for all message.
yes this fish is from Coari area and my fisherman try to fish in the Urucum river , but is very difficult , many fish is deformed , and no have good shape form , and few have good red spotted , my fisherman get Malarian disease in this area and comeback with 100 pieces and only 70 is ok to the market the others i 'm wait recover a quality .

all this Rsg discus is reserved to UK , market ,Discus South , paul Lucas.
i will send to arrival next june 08.

abou the Coari water parameter :

this is a little complicated to explain these important information correctly.
my english is terrible to aswer , but i will try.....:D

In the period that we fished ourselves these fish it is a period dries , and the rivers are with little water and i'm believe that these chemical physical characteristics modify enough.
In the drought the temperature is but high because of the great solar incidence and increase of the air temperature and no water circulation in the lakes also does with that it alters several factors.
The parameters that I have of the lake are the following ph varying between 5 ,00 and 6,00
Conductivity between 10 and 15 us/cm and temperature between 28 and 30 cm in the water.
In the period of rains and reproduction the where the fish enter in the flooded forests to reproduce, to eat and if it protects of the predators I believe that the ph modifies and the temperature is also smaller between 26 and 28, I am not sure because I never went to the rivers in the period of rains, but it is an important information that we should research in the this year. You can find vary information about water parameters and feeding in Heiko Bleher's book, it is worth to check, has a lot of important information.
thank you for all:thumbsup:

[wildthing]

Probably better information on specific water parameters in the old Hans Mayland book 'adventures with Discus'.
HB imo likes to re-invent the wheel, and then claim credit, and the scholarly paper on Discus, the one where an actual Researcher used actual scientific methodology and presented a paper for review seems to disagree to an extent with HB on what Discus were eating, or what relationships the different types of Discus have to each other etc.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/ni/v6n4/v6n4a08.pdf

I also find it interesting/curious that (almost) no-one at the hobby level talks about dissolved oxygen, or bothers to measure it, when it is perhaps one of the more important factors influencing breeding and general health. Any picture of what is going on with water chemistry is incomplete without this knowledge.

[Discus-n00b]

Very nice greens!

[hekdiscus]

Probably better information on specific water parameters in the old Hans Mayland book 'adventures with Discus'.
HB imo likes to re-invent the wheel, and then claim credit, and the scholarly paper on Discus, the one where an actual Researcher used actual scientific methodology and presented a paper for review seems to disagree to an extent with HB on what Discus were eating, or what relationships the different types of Discus have to each other etc.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/ni/v6n4/v6n4a08.pdf

I also find it interesting/curious that (almost) no-one at the hobby level talks about dissolved oxygen, or bothers to measure it, when it is perhaps one of the more important factors influencing breeding and general health. Any picture of what is going on with water chemistry is incomplete without this knowledge.

About the feeding of the discus, I can speak because I already examined the stomach content of some discus in I begin of the season, when still the rivers are full and they eat practically everything that find available.
fruits, insects, fish larvs, insects larvs , insects , algae, mosses, the forest and rich and diversified for them, I try to offer to my discus diets with Beef, dehydrated algae being 03 varieties a compound, fruits dehydrated powdered, garlic dehydrated powdered, and eg fish eggs cool , that is a great complete food......

[hekdiscus]

Dear friends , see the greens discus from jutai river , see the difference.
the shape body difference, the size and the eyes.

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi all of you and also wildthing (and thank for the great photos),

I know there are people on this forum which refuse to read my book, which is very OK with me, as the only ones missing out are those who dont – at least what the true history of Amazonia and the true history of wild discus is concerned, their correct distribution and correct location names of collecting (and my volume 1 is possibly still the only publication until today with wild-discus-facts for the first time written by one who went there more than 330 times do be able to report correctly and in details and not tose invented locality names given by some exporters - the very same what I am doing with volume 2 and that is the reason why it takes so long...).

Hans Mayland went with me on 3 Amazon expeditions, but never collected a single fish, but he was a good author and a dear friend and I passed on to him many of my informations to him, some of my researched work and photos. We lived very near to each other in the Frankfurt (Germany) area, for 30 years. And Hans gave me a lot of credit in his orginal book (he has even put me on the cover of his book). But those facts are only in the German original onle The English version has nothing to do with the orginal "Discus Fieber". The American publisher did not want to mention or have my name in Maylands book - it is 100% different from what Hans Mayland orginally wrote. Most of the texts and photos are missing. That is also why Hans was very mad at the American publisher.
Hans actually wrote a very humble introduction into my volume 1 book, for which I still thank him. Unfortunately he passed away to early....

In any event, why I write this is because Hudson is the ONLY one who has send a person after those beauties from the Coari region, to find the Green discus as they can only be found there. Hudson read my book and then decited to send the best person, the son of one of the oldest Discus collectors in Amazonia, with whom I went on many trips, Manuel Torres, who unfortunaely also passed away last year. But the son, with whom I collected as well, learned from his father who did this for over 30 years (almost as long as me).

I was the one who first (and only one before Manuel's son now) who collected in the Coari region and brought back these beauties which have been on the cover of magazines and books since the early 1980s – in thousands of them – around the world.
NO ONE after me ever went back to collect those beauties (the only group who went did not go to the correct place/river in that giant area, I mentioned it all in my book those who missed out and where the correct locality is - the entire history of the Coari region is written down in detail and Hudson read it). Now Hudosn has send the son of Manuel and the guy had, like me, a terrible malaria attack and came back empty handed, also because the water was to high (one can only collect there for 1 to max 3 month out of the year, the rest of the time all is flooded and impossble to collect discus). And he went back again and finally succeeded to catch 70 pieces.

These are the very first ones from that area after those I collected in the early 1980s. And although these beauties already show nice colours, one should see them in 2-6 month, they will become the most fantastic Green discus found in Amazonia... and they have nothing to do with Tefé-Populations, those from the Japurá region of Juatí or elsewhere.

And for your all information: from the Coari-Stock come most (if not all) of the so called Red Spotted Discus in the hobby today. I colelcted them, Schmidt-Focke bred them and I sold the offspring to Lo Wing Yat in Hong Kong and other from where they conquered the world. (But all details on where and what comes from where and what in volume 2 - the detals of 600plus breeders including the Cnadians).

In my volume 1 book are all the parameteres, past and present, day and night, every detail. But PLEASE do not read it. Hudson cannot know, as Manual son's di go there (and myself).

Best regards from one who tells only facts, to help this beautiful hobby to grow - from one who talks and writes from what he experienced or did, or lived with - to pass this precise information ont o others to hopefully learn from it. And from one who leaves it for others to pass on mis-informatioon, wrong facts, of things they do not know, they never experienced nor have benn to the places. They should be happy with it. I am happy with what I do.

Thank you Hudson for having those beauties collected, this will enrich this beautiful hobby even more. You are doing the right thing, you are like me...

Take care, all of you,

best regards

Heiko Bleher

[Apistomaster]

These are some of the most beautiful of the Discus, especially once they have had the time in the pampered environment of an aquarium, one could ever hope to see or for some fortunate few, to own.

I found the paper very interesting and need to read it again more carefully. It is a fine example of technical writing about the observations and measurements made in the limits of time and range it was possible to for this research to be executed.
I did not find it to be particularly definitive.
I learned that because it was difficult to determine exactly what the "crud" found in these Discus' gut was difficult to identify it was expedient to break it down to a few types of "crud".
I have studied wild trout gut contents so I know something about how difficult a task this can be although the fact that trout are primarily carnivorous and have the shorter alimentary system their diets at a given time are certainly easier to identify.

Having read so much about trout by the works of expert trout fly fisherman and Salmonid biologists, who are among the most prolific writers about fish in existence. Even more than those who write both techinical papers and others who try to make this kind of information more accessible to the less scientifically inclined consumers, I find it very odd how quick some are to trivialize the many decades of work Heiko Bleher posited in Bleher's Discus Vol 1.
It is difficult to synthesize a lifetime of experience with the technical aspects of a life so deeply involved with the fish we all seem to care so much about yet treat the most inclusive piece of work on wild Discus as being at all superficial. I can not come to that kind of conclusion. As an owner of Herr Bleher's Book and having read it rather closely, even perhaps between the lines, I have never found it lacking. One has to read far more about the biology and aspects of the foundation of fly fishing for trout perhaps, to appreciate how great a contribution Heiko Bleher's Dicus Vol I truly is too the Discus keeping hobby.

What is even more astonishing is how ignorant Discus hobbyist are about who managed to catch the right Discus and get them into the right hands to end up with the astonishing variety of domesticated Discus we enjoy today. I have had no personal previews nor insights into Bleher's Dicus Vol II, but I think many will be surprised to learn how few contributed so much to producing the founding stock of the dizzingly diverse selections of types of Domestic Discus we enjoy today from the original wild fish to those created in captivity.
Some few with a conscience may actually be embarassed.
Many of your heroes will become like the Emperor with No Clothes.

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi Larry,

that is really very, very kind of you and I appreciate ever so much attentious readers like you (I do the same) - only those stay. I had guys writing to me that they read it from cover to cover 4 times and started again, as it reads like a novel...
And I must tell you: It is 4:20Am and still on the book, just a break to see what is going on in the world and just read that Dennis Hooper died, one of my preferred actors (East of Eden, Giants, Easy rider... some of the best movies ever made), and I see your nice words. And in particular I LOVED your last sentence...

I am putting as much effort into it, as into volume 1 and hope to have it finished mid summer finally after so many years (I had started it together with volume 1).

Thanks again and keep up the good work, all of you,

always
Heiko

[Apistomaster]

Hi Heiko,

I am obviously a supporter of your work and I have been in the wild Discus keeping/breeding hobby only a few less years than you, just further from the center.
I can't say much more because from my corner of the quantum gravity multiverse, pretty much everything that would follow would be useless polemics which boil down to epistemological relativism. The ancient Greeks started those discussions and I am not likely to be able to add to the work of those who followed.
Only time will reveal the facts and if the history of the development of the fancy Discus in the hobby were to be evaluated using epidemiological methods, the results would point to you as patience zero who spread the fancy Discus disease, oddly enough. through your close collaboration with the late Dr. Eduard Schmidt-Focke who was the next stage. I know this because I followed the published histories long before you published Bleher's Discus Vol I and I am sure that history will be known by all who care to read your current work in progress.
Therefore, I have no intentions to continue being involved with this subject here.

I only have a few things more to add to this thread; I sure would like to get my hands on some of these beautiful Greens but I know they are too expensive for my fish budget. I blew too much on computers, accessories and wild Hypancistrus zebra recently.
However, after I sell a few more of my F1 L134 and L333 plecos I do plan to buy a group of less expensive, but still decent quality, wild Red Spotted Green Discus to complete my collection of wild or F1 wild Blue Discus. I have my group of 6 wild Alenquers with two pairs set up, it will take about another year before my F1 Blue Discus can breed so all I'm missing are my Green Discus. I have retired from my goal of attempting to breed Heckel Discus and sold the 10 adults I raised from 3 inch specimens to make room for more wild Discus species less close to impossible to breed.
I'll just keep working with Discus, tying my own trout fly designs and catching and releasing wild trout in my part of the Golden triangle of the best trout fly fishing in the Western USA.
That is what old geezer fly fishermen do.
And I am looking forward to the publication of your book in progress.
Good luck and a <non illigitimi carborundum> encouragement to you.

[Dutch dude]

Thank you Hekdiscus and Wildthing for all the info provided! I will read the article more closely later on and copied it to my hard drive. I already found some good info during a quick read.

The reason I asked is becouse I'm in the process of growing out some F1 cuipeua. They are only 6 months of age so breading is not an issue right now. I will use the time for collecting some more info to be proper prepared when the fish start to pair off. They are not exactly wild fish but only one generation diference so I expect it will be beneficial to at least give them the right parameters during spawning attempts later on.

To Heiko,....Next is not to offend you but to explain why I still not bought your book. In my book you are one of the most (if not the most) knowledgeble persons abouth wild discus, their origin, their needs and their do and don'ts. I was tempted many times to order your book. I seen it at Rob de Fouw his place and it contains realy stunning pictures. What is holding me back is that you promote your book and your selves in every post you make on every discusion board, time after time after time! Almost like the telemarketing business! I don't like it when people act like that! The more you try to push me into this book the more I step back from it. You post a lot of stories on the boards (nice to read those) and when it comes to the point of give some info you stop and refer to the book. This does not sound like someone who tries to pas on info and knowledge but this sounds to me like someone who want to sell as many books as posible for financial reasons.

[DiscusKev]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56162&d=1275083190

I like :) All the good pictures are usually in the small resolution lol. These Coari Red Spotted are amazing Hudson, good job!

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

Larry: thanks again and I hope you get back into some nice wild discus because I have seen you take well care, your fishes have always been stunning.
I hope yopu sell a lot loricariids.

Dutch Dude: I really hope (and wish) you never buy my book, as
1. there is no need for me (although you and many others think so);
2. I only mention it (the book) in some places (not in all, as, if you follow my threads, could have seen that) if there is a lot of information people make (dead) wrongly and insist on it - of being wrong. Hudson wrote some good ewords about those. And
3. No one will ever get all the information needed/wanted/wishes etc. from the internet. And lasta but not elast:ù
4. I worked I life-time on it to help people in this hobby, but defimnitely not for people as you, for those or such I did not put this work into it.

All the very best anyhow, and PLEASE never read it.

best regards, from a fish lover and in the 3rd generation, and NOt a business man.

Heiko Bleher

[Dutch dude]

I worked I life-time on it to help people in this hobby, but defimnitely not for people as you, for those or such I did not put this work into it.
Why not for people like me? Because I tell you I dislike the constant adds for your book in forums? It is nothing personal Heiko and I don't want to take you down or something but I just explain you that promoting your book so often makes a group of people just NOT to buy it. And,...if you like it or not I'm one of them. Besides that a price around 150 euro is a lot of money although the qualety of the book is high.

There is a lot to learn through internet contacts and you just need to find the right people.

[Apistomaster]

Both Dutchdude and Heiko are among my friends and I understand how any perceived or actual self-promotion tends to provoke the opposite of the intended consequences. What is a bit amusing is I am a largely-self taught wild Discus keeper/breeder but what has helped me most since I first began, was what I have learned from Heiko which in turn was incorporated in my turn at mentoring Dutchdude's beginning journey into Discus keeping/breeding. And with his first domestics he exceeded my wildest hopes and expectations. Note: I live in the PNW USA and Dutchdude is in Holland; never-the-less, we have worked on problems and solutions long distance for several years thanks to the internet. Heiko is all over the world always up to his armpits in the water or writing or speaking; I amazed he manages to take some time out to post on this and another forum I am involved with, www.finarama.com where there are many parallels about the various wild Angelfish as occur regarding wild Discus..

However, as useful as the internet is as a powerful tool for sharing information, ultimately information comes from others with more experience and knowledge to those with less and hopefully this raises the general consciousness about keeping and breeding wild Discus.
But the knowledge shared is fragmented and acquired by different people from different people using different underlying assumptions and having different experiences. For some that is enough; for others, deeper levels of knowledge/information are valued highly. Such is the way the net works.
Non-fiction books are different. They are not anywhere nearly as ephemeral as the internet and specialized, expensive non-fiction books must contain information many find very useful or they will never be published nor ever sell enough to allow an author to expand even further on his/her primary subject matter
I already warned this path is fraught with the arcanum of epistemological relativism. What is knowledge?

[puertoayacucho]

I'm not sure if I should have first asked Al and the Admin Team here at Simply Discus to post this, but I feel what I am posting here represents a growing and generalzed opinion at Aquarium forums around the world.

My name is Ed Ruiz, some of you know me, I am Administrator at Finarama.com. I just had a conversation over the phone with Michelle Ricketts our Principal and Chief Administrator at TASG. We hve been very concerned with this subject the last month or so.

Heiko Bleher is, at present, one of the most prolific collaborators to the aquarium hobby and in respect to him, I have decided to finally make public our thoughts on the matter a that basically affects him.

Why post this here and not in Finarama? Maybe because a lot of us feel like "siblings" with the membership here at Simply Discus! I hope this is a valid reason. Many of us are basically discus enthusiasts which have developed a parallell interest in other species through discus.

Larry Waybright is my close friend and probably, the person I most respect in the hobby... and I've only read facts from you Larry.

I think Heiko knows I appreciate him and respect him as a man who has had the possibilities and the passion to live his life in the water and bring to us what he sees through his media, videos, books. I agree with him in many things, but not in everything.

I hope my words are not incorrectly interpreted my friend Heiko, and as your friend (though we have never met in person we frequently email, shared info and coparticipate on forums), I think I should try to make you realize that Dutch Dude is merely exposing a point that many thousands are discussing in several disfferent aquarium fish forums.

At Finarama you got very dissapointed these days with one of our members, Mr. Richard Longley and you said you would not answer our questions again. This for reasons nothing to do with sales promotions of your media.

I am sure you realize that these forums are a prime selling tool. But the thing is Heiko, that we don't come here to buy books or videos, we come here to share personal experiences, to discuss intricate matters that will most likely, not be found on paper, to try and solve problems that sometimes, need to be solved in hours time, to get last updates from people who may be dealing precisely with what we will not find in a book.

Finarama proudly has a banner promoting your books and we are not about to consider taking it off as we feel your books are wonderful. But when we want to learn to differentiate Pterophyllum altum from Pterophyllum scalare, we want to go in depth in an interactive way with several people collaborating opinions... we don't want to buy a book and look at some pictures.

Larry points out that it is surprising that you still have any time available to participate with us here and in many other forums...I guess it is your way of relaxing...Do you ever sleep? And again, thousands of us read your posts enthusiastically.

But from a time back, the contents of many of your posts tend to look more like a commercial. This is not working the way you would like it Heiko.

In short, we miss old Heiko the scientist, the explorer, who gave us those detailed visions of Amazonia, the Congo, the world, without the need to necesarrily buy anything. That Heiko Bleher is missed by many. Please come back!

I truly hope we can continue counting on you.

Regards

Ed

[MarkPulawski]

Back on track those Coari Red Spotted are among the nicest WC fish I have ever seen, thanks Hek for posting them and the info on the area. In the frog hobby having site specific info is very imortant as one of the main priority's there is keeping color morph's pure as they are found in the wild. Here with Discus I believe it could be as important to a select few.
Breeding pure strains of WC locality specific fish may be more important than we all realize as some of these habitats degrade or are destroyed. Please send some of those fish to Florida, I would love to be a steward to a group of those or similar.

[babakaty]

Breeding pure strains of WC locality specific fish may be more important than we all realize as some of these habitats degrade or are destroyed. Please send some of those fish to Florida, I would love to be a steward to a group of those or similar.


+1!

Hudson, you have some unique and beautiful fish. It's obvious from the information on your website that you are dedicated to their well-being. It would be a shame if they were not more widely available to dedicated hobbyists such as visit this forum.

[puertoayacucho]

BTW, I hadn't seen that pic of Dicsuskev's Coari RSG's...I gotta have some!

Ed

[erikc]

Dear Wild Discus lovers.

see the Coari Greens red spotted :)

I have always wanted some Coari greens, they are the most beautifull of the green type discus. Truly amazing.

Thank you for sharing Hudson, it is a real delight !

[Ed13]

NICE RSG! How common are these on the trade really? I've seen them only once or twice before...didn't really consider them when I made this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=79096

[erikc]

NICE RSG! How common are these on the trade really? I've seen them only once or twice before...didn't really consider them when I made this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=79096

They are exceptionaly rare, hence the enthusuiasm generated by them amongst enthusiasts (yes I would love to have some).

[kitykatfunkiehat]

This post got way too heated earlier. lol

[hekdiscus]

Dear friends and Discus lovers.

I thank the gentile words of all in this topic.
I would like to say that the most important inside of this space, it is that each participant can say his experience and with that to share and to help to the Hobby.
Each aquarium is a small Laboratory the where we learned and we accomplished our researches, the information of the books are important and the experiences of all in that democratic space will form a true bank of experiences for the good of our Hobby.
I personally take care annually of more than 6,000 discus in quarantine and I live daily with the filters systems, changes water, feeding and treatment of parasites, that is a daily learning and always respecting the opinion of all.
We are always learning something new, us my 23 years of activities with sea fish and Discus, I am still learning a lot, always something will exist new, that is our evolution, the constant learning.
I will continue posting pictures of my files of green discus in that topic and sorry for my terrible english , I'm keep Discus more better of what write ....... :D:D

Thank you very much to all.

Sincerely
Hudson Crizanto

[hekdiscus]

Dear friends , See the japura green discus , season 2007

[hekdiscus]

More Japura

[DiscusKev]

wow Hudson, all of them are fantastic and if I had a choice to pick one, it would be a super hard decision to do so. I like the colours, but don't know what word to use to describe it best :D Pattern is gorgeous too!

[Larry Bugg]

Absolutely beautiful! Wilds are my favorite and yours are some of the nicest I have seen. Keep em coming. I would like to know more about you involvement with a US importer next season.

[MarkPulawski]

So Hudson when your collectos go out do they only take small % of the fish they catch, throwing back any deemed unsuitable for the aquarium trade? Is it only a small % that can be kept?
mark

[hekdiscus]

So Hudson when your collectos go out do they only take small % of the fish they catch, throwing back any deemed unsuitable for the aquarium trade? Is it only a small % that can be kept?
mark

Yes , my friend , i select the best ones and anothers with damages , old and deformed with low quality i'm send to the rivers again , normlay 100% arrival in my quarentine all pre selecteds.

Best regards

Hudson

[bigfish]

Hello Hudson,
Just had to comment on those "Stunning" Coari wilds, nice to hear they are going over to Paul & Ange Discus South, hear in the UK:). A top supplier of quality stock. Regards.....Ben.

[hekdiscus]

Hello Hudson,
Just had to comment on those "Stunning" Coari wilds, nice to hear they are going over to Paul & Ange Discus South, hear in the UK:). A top supplier of quality stock. Regards.....Ben.

yes my friend this special lot will arrival next june 08 in London

many thanks for your message

Hudson

[hekdiscus]

This is some Tefes greens

[hekdiscus]

more

[hekdiscus]

Dear Friends.

I found some files of green discus pictures from Japura. and I will post here to increase our images bank , these are of 2009.

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/DiscusNovember05jatap051.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/DiscusNovember05jatap054.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/DiscusNovember05jatap062.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/DiscusNovember05jatap057.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/DiscusNovember05jatap061.jpg


Thank you very much

Hudson

[hekdiscus]

Some Videos about the green discus arrival in Fortaleza in the last years,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQmh9bTgoO8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7mDE7lNZ0