what do you do to prevet FLUKES?!?!!!!

[grantbudd74]

So there has been a lot of people talking about flukes as of late including myself. So everyone what do you do to prevent the little B*****ds!

I have lost around 60 fry these past 10 days and sometimes I feel like jacking it all in and have display only tanks! I am new to beeding here so I am sure that all of you who do breed have experienced them...

Did you lose a lot of fish?
How did you treat them?
Did they come back?
What did you learn from having them?
What can you say to help us in our quest for less fry deaths?

Just a few questions as my local fish shop said if you breed discus you will get flukes and everyone has their own way to handle them. Not a real help and lord knows Eddie is a first class guy! Thanks mate :-)

Ok please share your info and experiences so maybe we can all learn something....

Thanks everyone

[mmorris]

I wouldn't expect a die-off of 60 fry because of flukes. You might want to look into other possible causes. Several people suggested water quality to you before. Again, I do 80% 2x a day. I have to get up early in the am before work to get them fed and changed. What is your wc regime now? Are you wiping everything down daily? 50% daily is not, IMO, enough, particularly for people new to breeding. Flukes are a bugger, I know. You want to knock them out on the parents before you have fry but that's a challenge as well.

[scottthomas]

I lost a ton of fry in the past due to gill flukes. I know it was flukes because I used a microscope and confirmed. The little fry were covered in them. I was losing 80% of every batch of fry and ended up culling the rest. I was changing the water 90% 2 times daily and still did not help much. Consequently, I know that gill flukes can wipe out entire spawns of fry. However, there can also be a multitude of other reasons why your fry are dying. IMO you would need to check witha scope to be sure of flukes. I did finally get rid of flukes by using AP Anti-Fluke. It was highly effective and safe on even small fry but did knock back my bio. HTH.

[grantbudd74]

hmmm? Ok living here in Australia you can not do 80+% water changes multiple times a day. We are in a drought all the time and water is expensive. I do 50% a day and thats all.

Wiping down is not daily so that is where I have gone wrong. I guess its flukes because of the following:

rapid breathing.
sitting at surface before death
moving away from main group before death
Flashing and darting around
multiple deaths in short time frames

After treatment 100% prazi

All fry ok and eating well
2 days later deaths again
treatment again and no deaths

there is a pattern here?

So maybe it is lack of water changes but how do they enter the water in the first place?

Is it slime build up is it live foods or frozen foods?

parents were fine before breeding and while feeding the fry from slime coat. It all happened quickly.parents ok after prazi treatment and eating again so I guess it is flukes.

So what you are saying is your aquarium has to be spotless and clean water all the time?

Is that all you need to do? Just trying to get my head around it thats all. I can wipe everyday thats easy just WC is hard if you are talking about flushing away hundreds of gallons of water given we dont get much rain here in melbourne.

[grantbudd74]

once you get flukes in a tank and filter media is there anything special you do to prevent further infections? Do you drain and bleach everything? Do you start again with a new filter?

[LizStreithorst]

Clean up the parents before breeding whether they show sympotms or not. I use PP. IMO 50%WC daily is not enough for young fry, but it that's all you can do it's all you can do. Since you aren't doing huge WCs I would suggest treating the fry with formalin at the first sign of scratching. This is usually around 3 weeks. Thereafter whenever you notice them scratching it's time to treat again.

[Eddie]

Although risky, I've had success in performing formalin dips and returning the pair to a sterilized tank. ;)

Eddie

[mmorris]

flushing away hundreds of gallons of water given we dont get much rain here in melbourne.

There is no substitute for wc. You might want to think of creative uses for the water that you are dumping. You could dump what you syphon from the bottom, but I would think the water would be fine for things like washing clothes. I don't know that I'd want to make my morning coffee with it. :p

[nc0gnet0]

Buy your self an intek pool or several large barells, and recycle you water. Drain the water to the pool through a micron filter, nuke the water with a 20ppm pp treatment, aerate, neutralize and let sit. Use 50% of this water with your water changes along with 50% tap (assuming that is what you use).

Adding a UV sterilizer to the breeding tank will help as well. The only way your fry could be getting flukes is from a contaminated filter, bad practices using equipment (nets, hands, etc) that has been used in an infected tank, or their parents. They don't manifest out of thin air.

What type of filtration are you using?

[mmorris]

Buy your self an intek pool or several large barells, and recycle you water. Drain the water to the pool through a micron filter, nuke the water with a 20ppm pp treatment, aerate, neutralize and let sit. Use 50% of this water with your water changes along with 50% tap (assuming that is what you use).


Interesting idea, but wouldn't you get a rapidly-increasing tds? How would you reduce the nitrates, etc? How would you completely eliminate the pp?

[grantbudd74]

Filtration was an ehiem cansiter filter for a 400l tank and set on a lower flow. It was in place with mum and dad so it built up good bacteria slowly as the fry grew. No amonia or nitrites.

I did a WC on parents tank and had to re-siphon the filter to get it started so it stirred up the filter a little. Within minutes the parents started to breathe very very heavily again.

This leads to me a question:-)

Can the flukes remain in the filter media yet have healthy looking fish?

I have 5 fry left :-)

I had to re-dose them twice! Changing around 50% water and wiping down and bleaching the sponge filter and filter wool but not the noodles so I still have bacteria built up there,

[Eddie]

Filtration was an ehiem cansiter filter for a 400l tank and set on a lower flow. It was in place with mum and dad so it built up good bacteria slowly as the fry grew. No amonia or nitrites.

I did a WC on parents tank and had to re-siphon the filter to get it started so it stirred up the filter a little. Within minutes the parents started to breathe very very heavily again.

This leads to me a question:-)

Can the flukes remain in the filter media yet have healthy looking fish?

I have 5 fry left :-)

I had to re-dose them twice! Changing around 50% water and wiping down and bleaching the sponge filter and filter wool but not the noodles so I still have bacteria built up there,


I wouldn't be bleaching anything regularly for a fry tank. Cleanliness is the biggest issue, if need be, perform multiple water changes to keep things spotless. The other issue is the water, it has to be exactly the same as the water in the tank wtr to PH, temp, TDS.

Obviously with 5 fry, you won't have too much of a load on the tank. How large are the fry? What foods do you feed?

Eddie

[grantbudd74]

Hey Eddie

So the fry are around an inch long from nose to tail. I have one smaller like half an inch so I know its going to remain small but I don't have the heart to cull this one. The fry look ok and actually great me when I come to the tank which is a sign I think that they are getting better.

I only feed beafheart at the moment as thats all they take. Im just trying to get them to eat well and grow a bit before I play with food types. They did love BBS but I stopped raising them as I am sure I heard it was best to feed frozen foods while the fish were suspected of having gill flukes..

So the main fish tank containing the parents. I took the canister filter apart and replaced all the wool and bleached the course filter pad and the container. I rinsed the two baskets of media. I also bleached the spray bar and did a full wipe down and a 30% water change.

Will keep and eye out on them- how do you tell when parents are well again? What signs do you look for? They do eat and breathing is down

Thanks mate

[Eddie]

Not sure Grant, never had any pairs drop off or react adversely from fry being removed. Guess they'll tell you when they are ready. :o

[mmorris]

had to re-siphon the filter to get it started so it stirred up the filter a little. Within minutes the parents started to breathe very very heavily again.

This leads to me a question:-)

Can the flukes remain in the filter media yet have healthy looking fish?

I have 5 fry left :-)

I had to re-dose them twice! Changing around 50% water and wiping down and bleaching the sponge filter and filter wool but not the noodles so I still have bacteria built up there,

Fluke eggs can be in the filter but once hatched, they need to find a fish within a day or they die. It sounds like your filter was in pretty serious need of a clean. It's important to remember that the crud in the filter might be out of sight, but it is still in the tank system so it needs to be rinsed out regularly. There wasn't any need to bleach anything. Next time, more wc's, wipe down daily and keep the filter rinsed out. :) The first batch is always a learning experience so I hope you are not too disappointed. There is no relationship between bbs and flukes that I know of. If the parents are eating and their breathing is slowing down they are probably fine. Just curious - what does your water company charge per what unit?

[grantbudd74]

hey thats good to hear about what to do and how to look after the fish. Yes the filter was a bit dirty but not too bad due to the water changes I was doing. Problem is that the whole setup is not easy to get to as it was meant to be a sump for my 6x2x2 but ended up housing the discus and fry.

I am almost ready to fill my 3 tier tank stand which will hold around 4 pairs once ready. Its amazing to see how the fish react when you do a wipe down and water change.

In terms of price per liter I have no idea as the other half pays the bills but we have a state wide target of 155 Liters a day per person based on water in our catchment areas. We are in stage 4 water restrictions so using 4-600 Liters a day is just not allowed. Also our bill would rocket up!

Maybe if I can make a bit of money then thats a different story but with this batch I was thinking I'm home free as they are now free swimming. hmmm was I wrong and yes its a learning experience for sure..

I have sponge filters sitting in my cansiter filter on the 6x2x2 and they have been there for 4 weeks now so they should be seeded and ready to go. Just need to get the water parameters fixed and Ill start.