Sick Fish..i think its Ich

[NickB]

so im new to dicus and me and the owner of the aquarium i bought them from have been prepping my tank for a couple months now..its is fully cycled..but i think i made a mistake by cycleing the tank with gouramis and not a fishless cycle.

60 gal tank
ph-7.4-7.6
am. 00ppm
nitrites. 0
nitrates. 5

the fish have been in there for 3 days now, and my blue discus got really dark and started being really shy..but the other 3 have been perfectly happy. today i noticed a greyish mark on the blues side on a certain angle in the light also there looked like there were little bubbles on its fin.. then i noticed they all had it so i called the aquarium and asked about it and they said most likely it was ich.. everyone suggested heat treatment but i heard thats not the way to go..the owner gave me this product called nox-ich and said its was a really good product and he has been keeping healthy discus for 8 years. So i put the product in after i did a 25% water change with aged conditioned water. It says to treat for 3 days..

am i taking the right steps? or should there be further actions taken?

[Eddie]

Never used nox-ich before but it appears to be Malachite Green and salt. Not a bad choice for the symptoms but you will be able to tell if the fish are improving. If after the treatment course (3 days), the fish are still displaying skin turbidity, I'd move to a Formalin & Malachite Green combo, like Quick Cure.

Make sure you keep the lights out when treating with Malachite Green. Keep us posted on the fish.


Eddie

[Protestthehero]

i've never had ich with discus, but i've had several cases of ich with other tropical fish, for me cranking the heat and adding non-iodized salt works perfectly, but i dont know how that would go with discus. i've also used Quick cure before and it works as well

[Eddie]

i've never had ich with discus, but i've had several cases of ich with other tropical fish, for me cranking the heat and adding non-iodized salt works perfectly, but i dont know how that would go with discus. i've also used Quick cure before and it works as well

The problem with heat treatments is that without EXACT identification of the problem, if it is bacterial, the high temps will make matters worse. Skin turbidity can be anything at this point.

Eddie

[NickB]

hey,

treatment almost over and fish are doing really well. What is the reason for having the light off when treating ?

[Discus master]

I am having the same issue with one of my discus the skin looks grey and looks like it would be peeling off or smething I read a booka nd it said to use that one drug with the word green in it? but if not treating for the ICh than I was only suppose to do one dose and do a 50% water change after 24 hr also I was told to use half the strength for more sensitive fish like discus and loaches so thats what i did I will be doing my 40 - 50% water change tonight I have not touched the water sense Sunday and after this water change if I do not have to treat again and it starts to clear up I am letting well enough alone with the water and only changing up to twice a week 40% no more than that. So if it worked for you I hope it works for me my stuff is called ICH something and made by Wardely.

[Eddie]

hey,

treatment almost over and fish are doing really well. What is the reason for having the light off when treating ?


Light reduces the effectiveness of Malachite Green.

Glad to hear the fish are doing better! Thats great news!

All the best,

Eddie

[Discus master]

I have some quickcure someone getting out of the hobby gave me I am so nervous about using meds is this stuff ok to use? I mean obviously it is but what I mean to ask is it safet to use with discus it says on the bottle of one of my other meds for more sensitive fish only to use half strength does this include discus it did not specify?

other wise the dose schdule on the bottle says one drop per gallon of water, that would be 55 drops! I have to treat the whole tank because I think it may have spread to my other fish, so do I do the full treatment strength or just half how did you use your quick cure?
maybe I should put into seperate thread? I only put it here because his problem is exactly like mine with the skin thing, thank you.

[nc0gnet0]

Discus will do fine at a full dose, tetras, pleco's, etc not so much. If you don't know the age of the quick cure I would pitch it and buy a fresh bottle, its only a few bucks and not worth the risk (albeit a small one). Formalin (a formaldehyde coumpond) can break down and become toxic over time, espescially if the formalin has been allowed to get cold.

[Discus master]

ok so one drop per gallon it is then ok, and I will probably buy new. I just lost another fish! so I got two remaining out of the three I lost in a 4 day period. I did not QT the last one I bought and he was sick from the begining I think and whatever he had spread to my other and now I only have two left!

and they are dying after having them for over 2 months, I know thats not long time, but I know its nothing I did in terms of their water witch is perfect it had to be this last fish that I skiped out on the q with and now I learned the hard way either buy them all up front or qt each new arival man I learned the hard way the first one to go was the last one I bought and I think there my have been an issue with him to begin ith I am not sure what but it is a really quick killer I know that any thoughts on what kills them so quickly brought on by adding a new fish to the bunch without proper qt? I know from now on I will qt or buy all at once if I loose the last two.

I will be suing the quick cure at full strength in the entire tank the only problem is I have two angel boita loaches and one small sucker and a small cory cat as clean up crew, so I am not sure how to treat if full strength is not good for them but are ok for the discus. my hosp tank is not set up now and I wanted to treat the whole tank should I do half strength or 3/4 strength?

and for how long with QC I know thats what the problem is the symtoms are so similar to this case, looks like skin peelin in the rite light and when viewd at an angle, not eating, going dark, clamping fins

I need this qc to work quickly!! I hope I am not to late!

[nc0gnet0]

Anything that fast has to be bacterial or water conditions. I know your convinced that it is not your water but humor us all and re-test and let us know your water change routine. Pictures would help immensly, take some pictures, borrow a camera if you have too.

[Eddie]

Anything that fast has to be bacterial or water conditions. I know your convinced that it is not your water but humor us all and re-test and let us know your water change routine. Pictures would help immensly, take some pictures, borrow a camera if you have too.

I disagree, bacteria are more of a secondary issue and something else caused the bacteria to go wild. Water quality could be one thing, virus or parasites as well.


Eddie

[Discus master]

I posted my water parameters from the latest test in the other thread I think but I will post them again for you all as of now last night

Nitrites 0
amonia 0
nitrates ?
ph 6.5 - 7.0
temp 85f
gh - 5

[Foxfire]

Not sure that you should use any med unless 90% or more sure you know what it is - also, for ick, all my reading says use salt (1 tsp/gal) and heat (90 F; do for about two weeks if memory serves) and this not only kills the ick but will help the Discus for other issues (lower stress, too.) Not too good for some plants (all my plants handled it well with no ill effects for nearly two weeks.) I have NEVER heard or read that higher temps increase illness due to bacteria - just the opposite. Discus like salt and can handle high temps well (if you have other non-discus fish, this treatment could be harmful - consider moving them or using a med tank.)

Becareful on meds - not only can these do more harm than good, they can crash your filter. Salt and temp increase should ALWAYS be your first choice if not 100% sure - this will save many Discus and never harms them - just the opposite from my short experience. From your loses, I think you need to rethink this and consider salt/temp - as for temp, you are close but need to push up to 90/91. Consider some salt (some as a tonic; 1 tsp/10 gal) even if you are using other meds.

Also, remember to always clear out old meds using carbon before trying any other med - otherwise, your fish will suffer or die!

Good luck.:)

[Discus master]

Well I do not have ICH it's just my symptoms were close to the symptms that the guy had who originaly started this thread, I hve been dealing with this problem for some time now and determined I did in fact need some meds. You should check out the thread I starte on this subject to get a better idea and where we are at now where we came from and where we should go from here and why? I think you may have jumped in a little late? But in contrast I have always heard that Discus do not like salt that it can be used as a treatment for some things but they really do not like it? at least thats what I have read on other forums like fishlore, I am not oppose to using it if it's needed ut I did read a few times discus do not like it at all.

I would not be oppse to adding some at lower dose to see if this helps in the treatment but rite now I am trying to follow Eddies instructions he seems to have a ton of experince on the subject in fact I think I will ask him about salt rite now sense you brought it up thanks!

[Eddie]

Discus tolerate salt just fine but do not combine it with chemotherapeutic agents. Use it alone or on combination with antibiotics.

Eddie

[Discus master]

ok but I would not want to use in a qt tank wuld I? I am not talking about a hossp tank I am talking for the qt of a new fish before adding it to your main tank I would not want to use the salt then rite?

[Eddie]

ok but I would not want to use in a qt tank wuld I? I am not talking about a hossp tank I am talking for the qt of a new fish before adding it to your main tank I would not want to use the salt then rite?


No, no need for salt. Everybody QTs different

[NickB]

i have been treating my fish with nox-ich for 6 days now.. they seemed to be doing better after first 3 days ..then it went downhill. Ive been doing 25% WC everyday now for a week..I need help..I cant post my pictures because it says there to big

[nc0gnet0]

go to www.photobucket.com post them there then post links

[Eddie]

i have been treating my fish with nox-ich for 6 days now.. they seemed to be doing better after first 3 days ..then it went downhill. Ive been doing 25% WC everyday now for a week..I need help..I cant post my pictures because it says there to big

After the first 3 days, clean water and salt would have been all that was needed. If your fish are crashing, getting worse, it may be secondary infection. Antibiotics and salt would be your choice. Please give us more details about the symptoms.

Eddie

[NickB]

Not the best Pictures but i think they should be good enough to get an idea on whats happening..

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac117/NickBrennan1989/2010-06-06171849.jpg
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac117/NickBrennan1989/2010-06-06171816.jpg
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac117/NickBrennan1989/2010-06-06171804.jpg
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac117/NickBrennan1989/2010-06-06171756.jpg

what they looked like before all this started happening.

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac117/NickBrennan1989/DSC_0994.jpg
http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac117/NickBrennan1989/DSC_0991.jpg

[Eddie]

Yup, they are crashing (secondary infection). Remove all medications via water changes and treat with Furan-2 and salt. Keep the tank lights out throughout treatment, add air and keep temp at 82F.

Eddie

[NickB]

After the 3 days of treatment they still had white dots on them.in that case it said skip a day and do another 3 day treatment..i did that and it got worse.

symptoms: white dots on side and fins, really dark colors, loss of appetite,
fins are starting to fray, cloudy eyes, stringy looking stuff under gills and on top of fins

[NickB]

So should i keep them in the show tank or move them to a small bare bottom?

And what kind of salt should i use? Just regular aquarium salt?..can i furan 2 at the LFS

[Eddie]

So should i keep them in the show tank or move them to a small bare bottom?

And what kind of salt should i use? Just regular aquarium salt?..can i furan 2 at the LFS


Depends on how small the bare tank is. If you cannot maintain pristine water quality, it will make the bacteria thrive. Use ordinary table salt and Furan-2 can be purchased at most LFSs.


Eddie

[NickB]

Ok so i put the fish into a 20 gal bare bottom. i plan on picking up furan 2 and salt tommarow.

when you say maintain prestine water quality ..do you mean all my parameters are perfect? plus no chlorine or heavy metals.. which i always condition my water before adding

[Eddie]

Ok so i put the fish into a 20 gal bare bottom. i plan on picking up furan 2 and salt tommarow.

when you say maintain prestine water quality ..do you mean all my parameters are perfect? plus no chlorine or heavy metals.. which i always condition my water before adding


Meaning perform daily water changes and dont feed.

[NickB]

so i lost three fish.. The two older ones that came from the same tank both seemed to die from the same thing...still not sure what it was... my two little one were doing great after the older ones were gone. Then one of my young ones started to headstand but was still breathing perfect. later that night he died. I have one more young one in a 20 gal bare tank which he is doing awsome. Not sure what happend to me.lol.. My 60 gal tank is full broken down now and cleaned out. I plan on starting over with bare bottom.

what would be your recomend doing since i have only one fish and i hear they get really stressed by themselve, and in a couple weeks when i get a 3 new ones should i add them to the same 20 gal and treat all 4 fish?

Thanks for all the help.

[Eddie]

so i lost three fish.. The two older ones that came from the same tank both seemed to die from the same thing...still not sure what it was... my two little one were doing great after the older ones were gone. Then one of my young ones started to headstand but was still breathing perfect. later that night he died. I have one more young one in a 20 gal bare tank which he is doing awsome. Not sure what happend to me.lol.. My 60 gal tank is full broken down now and cleaned out. I plan on starting over with bare bottom.

what would be your recomend doing since i have only one fish and i hear they get really stressed by themselve, and in a couple weeks when i get a 3 new ones should i add them to the same 20 gal and treat all 4 fish?

Thanks for all the help.

Sorry to hear that you lost 3. What is the source of the new 3 fish?

Eddie

[NickB]

Um i was gonna get them from the same aquarium..I think whatever happend had to do with something i did wrong. I almost think that they got sick from the neon tetras. This a aquarium is a very nice place with a great reputation for healthy discus. Also the name is anchor bay aquarium.

[Eddie]

Um i was gonna get them from the same aquarium..I think whatever happend had to do with something i did wrong. I almost think that they got sick from the neon tetras. This a aquarium is a very nice place with a great reputation for healthy discus. Also the name is anchor bay aquarium.

Yeah, it doesn't sound like a good idea IMO. If you do go with the same LFS, make sure QT them well.

Eddie

[NickB]

Yeah, im gonna do some searching around my area. So would i QT the discus with the one i already have. What do you treat for when you QT? and what meds?

[Eddie]

Yeah, im gonna do some searching around my area. So would i QT the discus with the one i already have. What do you treat for when you QT? and what meds?


You would QT any all fish separate from your existing fish. Depends on the source.