My proposed beef heart and liver recipe.

[henward]

Please give me feed back.

if im missing a point here, let me know.

this is for medium juvis, smallish and adult discus all gonna eat this.

i figure, this will fattena nd beef up large ones further.
this will help smaller ones get bigger.

im no expert on nutrition but let me know.

recipe as follows:
500g Beef Heart (*All fat and sinue trimmed)
500Grams Beef Liver (Should i have a combo of both or just heart)
1/2 cup massivore pellets (blended to a powder)
2/4 cup discus bio gold (straight in. Massivore and bio gold will act as a binding agent)
100G Bloodworms
100g Mysis Shrimp

Any veges i can pu tin or not bother?
anything else?

[Frankr409]

Please give me feed back.

if im missing a point here, let me know.

this is for medium juvis, smallish and adult discus all gonna eat this.

i figure, this will fattena nd beef up large ones further.
this will help smaller ones get bigger.

im no expert on nutrition but let me know.

recipe as follows:
500g Beef Heart (*All fat and sinue trimmed)
500Grams Beef Liver (Should i have a combo of both or just heart)
1/2 cup massivore pellets (blended to a powder)
2/4 cup discus bio gold (straight in. Massivore and bio gold will act as a binding agent)
100G Bloodworms
100g Mysis Shrimp

Any veges i can pu tin or not bother?
anything else?

I question how much binding you will get from the the bio gold/massivore. Raw Shrimp would help binding, and add protein. Discus are omnivorous, perhaps some peas?

I would add garlic for so many reasons that I cannot begin to list, and finally some sort of vitamin added in if they will not get it through some other kind of feed.

[henward]

oh ok, cool peas, got it
and raw shrimip too will help bind.
the pellets will give some vits and have a high protein and attractiveness to discus.

but vitamins, what sort of vits do i add?
cani add vitamins that they give to birds?

[Frankr409]

oh ok, cool peas, got it
and raw shrimip too will help bind.
the pellets will give some vits and have a high protein and attractiveness to discus.

but vitamins, what sort of vits do i add?
cani add vitamins that they give to birds?

Centrum Silver would work, or some other human vitamin, for pounds of food though, perhaps a single ground pill. I mentioned peas as well, if you have any spirulina that would be just as good.

good luck.

[Ed13]

I'd decrease the amount of liver to about half of the amount of BH or less for the first batch. See how it goes and adjust future batches. I'd also par boil it or slightly cook it in some way to help coagulated the blood, etc in it.

I'd also be adding shrimp/prawn to it and leaving out bloodworms and the mysis shrimp.

Small amount of veggies wouldn't hurt either. Par boiled probably if fresh.

IMHO

[henward]

why par boil?
peas will be frozen from the bag froms upermarket.
pretty generic.
why also reduce liver? is liver worse than BH?
i dont hvae to have liver, it can be just BH.
what should ther atio be with prawn and shrimp raw and BH?

and also why leave out bloodworm and mysis?

[Ed13]

why par boil?
peas will be frozen from the bag froms upermarket.
pretty generic.
why also reduce liver? is liver worse than BH?
i dont hvae to have liver, it can be just BH.
what should ther atio be with prawn and shrimp raw and BH?

and also why leave out bloodworm and mysis?
Liver is good, but messy. Par boiling it helps to coagulate and harden it making it cleaner in a mix. Decreasing the amount in your first mix with it, will let you test it, see how messy the mix is and how your discus react to it without comitting fully a whole lot of ingredients in a mix that might not even work for you. You could also make a great mix without it, but I see no harm in experimenting and slighty modifiying YOUR mix each time to fit your needs and style.

Par boiling some veggies helps to soften them and allow them to fully integrate into the mix rather than stay in large pieces and in my opinion make it easier for the fish to eat them. Peas have a shell that is undigestible by discus and are in my opnion too hard when raw.

I like to use a similar amount of shrimp than that of other meats/seafood. Sort of like 50/50 but I never really keep it the same in every batch:o. Some batches don't even come close to 50/50 either way :D

Again, IMHO;)

[henward]

sounds good
i will take your feedback into account!
liver seems nice and juice

so apart from mess, par boiling it does nothing else but keep it cleaner?

whats the problem with the mess?
i have fish that will eat the mess you see, to clean u scraps.
or is there another reason mess is bad?

[henward]

what do you think of this mix??:
as a trial only. rations will remain roughly the same.
my thing here is to ensure that there is a huge range of vits, proteins, fats and trace in it.

also going on over seas opinions of what they do.

400g beef heart
150g Beef Liver (more or less)
250g Raw prawns (more or less?)
50G Spinach (RAW OR COOKED? shall i put more spinach?)
1/4 cup of discus bio gold
1/4 cup of massivore:D (gotta have that in there)
1/2 cup of blended mealworms(yes no? more or less?)

minced very finely
rolled into glad wrap like a sausage so i jsut open one end and use a cheese grater. re wrap:D

how does the above sound?
has a good ratio of beef heart, not too much liver, good ratio of shrimp.
Should i add bloodworms? so there is that nice small of blood worms in there? or are they mostly attracted to the worm look?

the above is not a staple, i decided against that unless i can be convinced otherwise.
i would probably say the discus diet will be 70% pellets, the rest is beef mix.

[henward]

3 to 5 cloves of garlic too, fresh garlic.
tell me, is that too much?
how many in this trial mix? 3,4 or 5?

any others things i can add?

the main reason for adding the pellets like massivore, and discus bio gold is that they are packed iwth vitamins already.
so i dont have to put vitamins in it intended for human consumption.
the spinach too has vitamins, liver too.

[vera]

I wouldnt use liver at all , tried it ones it pollutes water in 1 sec - makes it look milky,
mealworms sound as good source of proteins when fresh

[Dan]

i question the digestability of the mealworm shells, most animals cannot digest the chitin their shells are composed of. the result of liquifying them will foul your water up aswell.

i'd say the amount of BH, prawns and massivore pellets you have in the mix will suffice for protein. i would not cook the spinach, but blend it well(into a puree if you can) so it incorporates well in the mix.

[Aquaben19]

I believe it was Al that said Don't try to do too much with your food recipes, keep it simple.

So I follow a simple equation when I make my mixes:

-Meat (BH, Cod, Tuna or whatever you want to use)
-Binder (I use raw shrimp, plus it also counts as a meat/protein)
-Veggie (I use peas or spinach even spirulina if I have it)
-Garlic (We all know the uses of garlic)
-Vitamin (I use centrum and over the counter prenatal, and a folic acid)

I never add mysis or BW to the mix because it really isnt needed. You can add it maybe in your first batch to get them on your mix if they have never had a homemade mix before. Other than that, experiment. My formula may be simple but there are many possible recipes that can be made from it.

[henward]

oh ok, so liver milks water, but as i said, apart from milking the water, liver is other than that good?
water cloudiness is not my worry, i have massive filtration - what ever milkiness will be cleared in matter of minutes literally.
or does liver have another sinister part in your opinion?

some says no, apart from dirtiness and cloudiness factor. what do you think?

ok so dont cook the spinach, use peas too.

how about parsley?
http://mcaaron.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/h-395x298-parsley.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsley
'Curled Parsley'
good to grind up, easy and fullof vits anyone used it?

i know some plants have things in them that animals shouldnt eat i guess, is this true?
or peas and lil spinach enough?

I wanted to add liver as someone told me the fish love it and attack it cos it smells good? but if its a problem, then i may remove it i guess.

[henward]

i guess BW and mysis is overkill.

do me a favour, can you give me a picture of the bottle centrum you use?
i am weary of using human multi-vit you see.
and 1 tab is enough right?

[TonyAPBTx]

Hey,

I use the centrum A-Z, put in a coffee grinder and add. I also added spriulina as it is a good vitamin source and color enhancer.

If I was you I would make your mix the staple of your diet. I have done the same and am getting some very good growth and color from my discus. I do feed pellets and flakes but as a supplement as opposed to the staple of the diet.

Your BH mix is going to be superior to any flake/pellet food that I have come across. If this wasn't the case everyone would be feeding flakes and pellets and we would have far less people making mixes.

The reason for making a home made mix is it is going to be far superior than mass produced store foods.

The mix I used was:

Tuna
Cod
Extra Lean Ground Beef. If you have beef heart all ready I would use that.
Shrimp
Collared greens
Banana
AZ Centrum multivitamins
Spirulina (sp?)
Peas (baby food version)
Flake food added

I think there may be a few other odds and ends added in.

Hope this helps.

[TonyAPBTx]

Oh yeah, and garlic and paprika added as well.

[henward]

how many grams spirulina power should i put?

[vera]

there will be different opinions and experience on liver feed , but my Discus didnt even touch it

[henward]

im not gonna put toooo much, just a little bit - but even then its a optional thing for me i think.

spirulina? how many grams in that mix i have proposed?

[vera]

1 tbsp will b enough

[Harriett]

Seems like lots of folks are politely telling you that liver isn't a great idea and exotic ingredients are not necessary, and you are still planning to use them. The reason for eliminating the liver is clear: it leaks bloody liquid all over--you mentioned your filtration system will take care of what you called 'the milk'.. Wrong track. If the recipe parts turn to liquid or to mush when they go into the tank, it ain't about filtration, it IS about fouling your tank in a hurry. Your great filtration may pull it out of the water column to some extent but then it just sits in the filter and becomes a bacterial haven. In the tank, all that uneaten food breaks down and you have beef broth. Not a healthy environment for the discus. Your recipe needs to hold together so when you either shave or grate or thinly slice it, the BH mix holds together in bitable flakes for the fish and doesn't dissipate in the water. It's more about how to make this stuff work and bind together, get the fish fed well, and not make a giant mess of your tank
Aquaben gave you good advice on ingredients. Wish you luck in the project.
Harriett

[TonyAPBTx]

If I was you I would substitute the liver with a fish filet high in protein, a meaty fish.

I use Tuna but a Mahi Mahi would also work well.

I think that will bring more to the mix overall than the liver and be a lot cleaner. Plus no cooking would be involved and you would get nice fresh meat into the mix.

Just my opinion.

[henward]

fair enough, i will take the liver out and replace the same mass with white fish?
how about cod? cod seems to be common in these recipes online.


also, what is 'BIO ACTIVE SPIRULINA'
can i use that
?

[TonyAPBTx]

Cod is good and many people use it.

I use tuna as it seems to be a little meatier and my guess would be higher in protein. Thats an uneducated opinion though but tuna steaks are pretty thick and meaty.

My next mix I have saved grouper, mahi mahi and tuna for the fish portion of my mix. I just save a little from when we grill out here.

Not sure on the spirulina, if its good for human cosumption it should be fine for the fish.

[nc0gnet0]

I wouldn't touch the liver with a ten foot pole. Not unless your spending the bucks on free range beef liver. The liver is a blood purifing organ. Most Beef raised for slaughter is fed massive amounts of hormones, anti-biotics, growth supplements, and anything else they decide to throw in. These chemicals get concentrated in the liver. Lord only knows how they may or may not effect your discus.

[allan_mark76]

Skip the mysis and bloodworms and feed them separately.
Add ground up clams to your mix.

~AKA~

[Pardal]

oh ok, so liver milks water, but as i said, apart from milking the water, liver is other than that good?
water cloudiness is not my worry, i have massive filtration - what ever milkiness will be cleared in matter of minutes literally.
or does liver have another sinister part in your opinion?

some says no, apart from dirtiness and cloudiness factor. what do you think?

ok so dont cook the spinach, use peas too.

how about parsley?
http://mcaaron.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/h-395x298-parsley.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsley
'Curled Parsley'
good to grind up, easy and fullof vits anyone used it?

i know some plants have things in them that animals shouldnt eat i guess, is this true?
or peas and lil spinach enough?

I wanted to add liver as someone told me the fish love it and attack it cos it smells good? but if its a problem, then i may remove it i guess.

I will add liver if you don't have beef heart available, and preferibly chicken or turkey liver is better than from the cow, parboiled. use one or the other with some seafood , both if kind of over killed too much earthy stuff IMO.
remember too much protein above 50% and Discus will expend more energy digesting it.
as for the veggie you can try some fruits also like banana, mango, pear etc.
You can make two different formulas simple. better than one with too much stuff.

[henward]

well i guess the balance of not tooo much protein.
there is no way my mix will be more than 40% protein.
shrimp alone brings down the average by alot!
shrimp is only 18% wet weight protein.

beef is about 23%
the pellets are 45 to 50%
spinach and veges little to no protein.
spirulina is 65% protein but you only put a dash in there.

so the too high protein is not the worry.

i will not put liver, i have had too many NO NOs on liver.
so no, its not neccesary.

so far this is my mix.

MY MIX SO FAR:

500g beef heart
250g Raw prawns (more or less? small prawns, apparently taste much better to discus - doesnt make a difference to me, actuallyc heaper)
150g COD
200G Spinach
100G Peas
80g of discus bio gold
80g of massivore
8 cloves garlic (IS THIS TOO MUCH? OR NOT ENOUGH?)
1.5TBSP spirulina (more or less???)
1.5 tsp paprika (more or less)

so far this is my recipe, making it on saturday.
any other suggestions?
is WHEAT GERM neccesary? or this should be ok?

i add discus bio gold and massivore for the BEEFING up of the mix.

i propose on using this mix as 30 to 40% of the entire diet of the discus you see.

[Harriett]

You can add more spirulina--it is hard to overdose it and it is tremendous for building a strong immune system. I put in between 1/4 and 1/2 cup when we make it. We add enough garlic that you can sure smell it when you are feeding! LOL. Your amount is fine. Great for gut health and they like it. Your recipe is rounding out nicely. 30-40% of diet is just fine.
Harriett

[wanderingfish]

I use 1/3 squid,1/3 vegetables including peas,potatoes,pumpkins,carrots,bananas,and 1/3 other meat including pork,chicken breast ,chicken heart,sometimes,eggs.I use a 500w food processor,it's easer to use the high powered food processor to churn the mix into fine paste.My discuses like it.

[henward]

500g beef heart
250g Raw prawns (more or less? small prawns, apparently taste much better to discus - doesnt make a difference to me, actuallyc heaper)
150g COD
200G Spinach
100G Peas
80g of discus bio gold
80g of massivore
8 cloves garlic (IS THIS TOO MUCH? OR NOT ENOUGH?)
100g spirulina
1.5 tsp paprika (more or less)

s is that ok?
or should i up that to 125g? ....