The perfect parents

[matthewh2]

Hi guys, am really excited about this, i put two red molboros in last week which have had since they where 3 months old, the two in the pic where always hanging out and a few weeks ago was watching them bow to each other, so thought was time to give them a go at parenthood, they laid that night, eggs hatched around 150 fry, not bad for first timers:) they laid on the glass behind temp sticker in pic, as they hatched both moved them to current spot. they both take turns fanning and no animosity at all,

Most other discus i have bred,the male is aggresive but these two are the perfect match, am totally stoked:D

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[mathao]

congratulation.

[scottthomas]

Congrats. They are great looking adults and obviously have excellent instincts to be parents. I bet those two will produce many fry for you down the road.

[matthewh2]

Thanks i reared them from 8 weeks of age, they now a year old, seems like they were meant to be, i have a mixture of fry on them meaning some are dark but most of them white, will be interesting to see what they throw out.:)

[mmorris]

i have a mixture of fry on them meaning some are dark but most of them white, will be interesting to see what they throw out.:)

I'm really curious, since I would have expected you would have all pb based fish. Do the dark ones have bars or is it dark like peppering? Hopefully Rod will see this.

[Keith Perkins]

I'm really curious, since I would have expected you would have all pb based fish. Do the dark ones have bars or is it dark like peppering? Hopefully Rod will see this.

+1 I've got a pair of Red Marlboro and I've never seen any dark fry.

[matthewh2]

They two little to see bars/peppering yet mmorris, there seems to be only 5 or 6 that are dark all the rest are white atm but will keep you guys posted, i do however have 5 week old fry and parents Female checkerboard the male blue leopard skin fry have turned out some six bars and some 10-14 bars and some have no bars very interesting, there fins are a pink in colour, but that could be the tetra bits that i feed them once a day, i crush to a smaller size and then feed, will post pics on here later as they get abit bigger, i have tried taking pics but every time i get close the think it is feeding time and start galavanting and i get blurred pics, will also have to update my camera lol, am sure they know (red melons)when you approach them with camera, as they turn and hide the fry (is a good parental thing i guess)
Actually do you think these fish are Red melons or Peach faced melons :confused:

[Keith Perkins]

LOL, I didn't look at the pictures. I'd say they're not RM, but they're quite nice looking. I think I prefer them to RMs.

[Rod]

I'm really curious, since I would have expected you would have all pb based fish. Do the dark ones have bars or is it dark like peppering? Hopefully Rod will see this.

Thats actually quite common with pigeons Matha, all it means is both parents are heterozygous (ie not pure bred pigeons) They are throwbacks to the wild type and will in all liklihood look like regular brown discus.

[mmorris]

That makes sense! Pb would have to be recessive to have 100% pb fry! I think. :o

[matthewh2]

Anyways, I think they are a great looking pair of discus too, their parents were real solid red with no peppering, was tol that they are red molboros, breeder told me never used colour enhancers; LOl

[Rod]

That makes sense! Pb would have to be recessive to have 100% pb fry! I think. :o

Dominant's can be 100% pure too. Mathew's pair even though they are both heterozygous will throw around 50% heterozygous fry (all pigeons) and 50% homozygous fry. Half the homozygous ones are brown and the other half pigeons. So with a bit of experimental breeding he could 'discover' which are the homozygous ones (homozygous pure pigeons and heterozygous ones look identical, but have vastly different breeding results), breed 2 of them together, and voila pure and true breeding discus are the result.

Dominant and recessive can be differentiated by breeding results. Lets say we have a variety where we do not know what is what. cross it with a wild or wild type and have a look at the resulting fry. If ANY are the same as the mutant variety we are dealing with a dominant, if they are all wild looking we are dealing with a recessive. Dominants do not hide, it only takes one of the 2 allele's to be mutated to show the trait, when both are mutant we call that homozygous. With recessives when 1 is mutated we call it a carrier or an intermediate and the discus looks perfectly normal (ie albino cross). It takes both alleles to be mutated in a recessive to show the trait (and be an albino). That in a nutshell is the difference.

I hope that makes sense, i know what i want to say in my mind, but find it difficult to put into words without reading a little confusing.

[mmorris]

It makes perfect sense, Rod. Keep it comin', and I'll buy you a beer one day. :)

[matthewh2]

That is real interesting Rod, thanks for that, so hence why some are dark and some are light i guess, will bring these ones up, do i do as the parents with the fry keeping the same looking (colour) fish together to breed from or change, have always thought of mixing strains to see what happens, try and get a new patterned fish or something different, was thinking of a white swan with a blue leopard skin to see what they would throw, i reckon look good a white fish with leopard spots (transluscent i guess) don't know just me throwing things out there i guess Lol:p

[Rod]

It makes perfect sense, Rod. Keep it comin', and I'll buy you a beer one day. :)

Sounds good Martha :)

[Rod]

That is real interesting Rod, thanks for that, so hence why some are dark and some are light i guess, will bring these ones up, do i do as the parents with the fry keeping the same looking (colour) fish together to breed from or change, have always thought of mixing strains to see what happens, try and get a new patterned fish or something different, was thinking of a white swan with a blue leopard skin to see what they would throw, i reckon look good a white fish with leopard spots (transluscent i guess) don't know just me throwing things out there i guess Lol:p

I like crossbreeding as well, some crosses produce beautiful discus.

There is already leopard spotted white discus being produced and yes they are beautiful. They are quite often a dirty white color rather than the white of a snow white, but with careful breeding can be made much better. The valentine is a white cross strain that is highly refined and very white and clean, though more solid red than spotted red, the principal is much the same.

[matthewh2]

Well just an update on these two with there fry now juvies, most are white with pink dorsal fins, they are really active, i have finally found out the hard way at rearing the young, after losing too many to 4 week old syndrome, i now everyday wipe down the inside and the floor of the tank, syphon and replace 50% daily and have lost only two in 4 weeks.

[matthewh2]

Just an update on juvies now, they are doing really good and growing fast, the dark ones spoken of earlier actually were the fish with bars now, these bars are fairly thick and range from 7-9 bars approx, some of the juvies are turning yellow and some are white still, all have redish dorsal fins some with black tips, interesting, i dont have a descent camera to take pics of them, and phone camera useless. will have to invest in one as i have a few adults in which i would like id'd as well as rated, i have some really nice adults which would like to share with you guys on here, hopefully soon.
:)

[mmorris]

Pics would be great, Matthew! :)

[matthewh2]

i know i will borrow a descent camera to take some pics for you Martha you know what its like they move pretty fast ,and get blured pics, but will get some on here soon for you :)"