don't know whats wrong

[3dees]

after the disaster with fed ex my 3 remaining wilds were doing fine. now they are breathing heavily. not at the top. fish are swimming all over the tank and eating, although I'm still trying to get them to take something besides fbw.
I have been doing 50% water changes everyday. fish are breathing normally for about 8 hours then start breathing hard again. no ammonia or nitrites and nitrates under 5. the biggest fish (6") turns dark then lightens up after the wc. PH is 7.6 from the tap, after 24 hours and also in the tank. I use prime with wc. they are using both gills, and thier waste looks normal. I'm really stumped on this. anyone have an idea on whats going on?

[David Rose]

I'm sure there are a number of folks here that would be happy to help, but we need a little more information. Please copy and paste the following questionnaire into your thread and complete.

http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=38545

[Foxfire]

You MUST do a 90 -100% water change and clean your filter (rinse only!) and if you have charcoal get rid of it asap. Add an air pump/air stone. See if this can get rid of the problem. This should always be your first step with a possible water issue. A 50% WC, even two, just will NOT cut it (you leave 25% of the old water in the tank!)

See if that helps. You can also add salt but that, while helpful, I just don't see that doing anything for this problem right now - large WC asap.

[3dees]

thanks for the reply. I don't use carbon. what good are airstones? it's not an oxygen problem. this must sound dumb, but how do you do a 100% water change? this is my only tank. i would think that chasing them around with a net to put them in another tank or bucket would stress them even more. sorry but I'm new to discus (not fishkeeping) and this is something I have never faced before. I will rinse one filter at a time. I have done 50% or a little more every day for the last week. I would think that even a cycling tank (which it's not) would'nt have this problem in so short a time. my 25 lemon tetras and 4" bn pleco are all fine.

[Disgirl]

I have heard heard that a 100% water change can mean 2 50% wc's in one day. No need to remove your fish from the tank! Some folks do take out all but 1/2" of water and let the fish flop around, not me, but some do. I would do 2 changes in a day instead if needed. Good luck!
Barb

[David Rose]

Rapid breathing can be caused by a number of things. We need more information, so we can see a fuller picture of your discus and set up. Pictures would also be helpful. ;)



I'm sure there are a number of folks here that would be happy to help, but we need a little more information. Please copy and paste the following questionnaire into your thread and complete.

http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=38545

[3dees]

OK, first off I'm an old coot who bought my first computer 5 years ago only because I wanted to get rid of my film cameras and go digital, so I use it mainly for photoshop, e-mail, and forums. I don't know how to copy and paste so I'll do it the hard way.

1. I have already stated what the problem is.
2. I have not used any meds. yet except for salt.
3. 120 gal. (48x24x24) runing for 3 months. discus were added almost two weeks ago. 25 lemon tetras and 1 4" bn pleco. have been in the tank since the cycle. they are fine.
4. doing 50-60% wc every day with tap water and prime. no ammonia or nitrites. nitrates below 5.

[3dees]

sorry hit the wrong key. see I told you. I hate computers.
6. temp is 85. PH is a steady 7.6 lots of manzanita and only floating plants. sand bottom of about 1".
running xp3 and ehiem 2128. filters were bought new.
hope this is enough info.

[3dees]

on 6/6 I started a long thread about fed ex destroying my carton of fish, so I had problems from the start.

[nc0gnet0]

Hello

I followed your other thread with great interest and heartbreak. Glad to see some of the mishandled fish actually pulled through, fighters indeed! IMHO, I don't think you need to change a thing with your water change routine, and doubt you are having a water quality issue. And if you are, it would be from the water source itself, in which case upping the water changes will do little to help the problem.

This being said, it is possible that you don't have a problem at all, and are just witnessing your fish settling in. The fact that they look great and are active just after a water change, and settle and become less active hours afterwards is not all that uncommon. If you think you see labored breathing during this time, it might be a reaction to the gradual reduction in dissolved 02 in the water. Remember your fish went through quite and ordeal, and their gills might not be fully recovered and as a result, not be performing at 100%.

I would try adding an air pump and a decent airstone and see if this makes a difference. It's cheap, non-intrusive, and you will always have a use for it in the future.

[3dees]

thanks nc0gnet0, I was hoping that was the case. I would be more worried if they were hiding and not eating so maybe it's still from the stress. I have never used airstones as I don't think they do any good but thats just me. I can try to get more surface aggitation but it's going to push the plants all over the tank. I would remove all the plants if I thought it would help. the fish are more important. I'll see how much I can raise the spray bars.
John (snookn21) did'nt ship the replacement fish last week because he said they darkened a bit. I might tell him to hold off another week until I can solve this before adding another 5 fish.

[nc0gnet0]

Bear in mind I am not saying that is the case, but could be. i would definatly continue to monitor the situation...It is however a starting point and a quick fix one that could give results instantly if it is the case.

I agree with you to a point on airstones if we are talking vs spray bars, but that being said, airstones are far from worthless. Spray bars are good at oxygenating the water, but without some method of turning the water over (IE a deep airstone) the oxygenated water stays at the top of the tank. Besides, you could use the air pump down the road to power a sponge filter in a breeding tank, so it's not money wasted. I like to use the air tubes that produce a fine mist of very small bubbles. These I mount about 3" below my horizontally mounted heaters. This keeps water circulating by the heaters for more consistant heating of the entire tank, and less cycling of the heater elements.

[David Rose]

OK, first off I'm an old coot who bought my first computer 5 years ago only because I wanted to get rid of my film cameras and go digital, so I use it mainly for photoshop, e-mail, and forums. I don't know how to copy and paste so I'll do it the hard way.

1. I have already stated what the problem is.
2. I have not used any meds. yet except for salt.
3. 120 gal. (48x24x24) runing for 3 months. discus were added almost two weeks ago. 25 lemon tetras and 1 4" bn pleco. have been in the tank since the cycle. they are fine.
4. doing 50-60% wc every day with tap water and prime. no ammonia or nitrites. nitrates below
5. temp is 85. PH is a steady 7.6 lots of manzanita and only floating plants. sand bottom of about 1".
running xp3 and ehiem 2128. filters were bought new.
hope this is enough info.


Hi 3dees,

Sounds like you've set up a really nice home for them and they are still adjusting given their traumatic arrival. In any case, periodic heavy breathing in itself is nothing to worry to much over at this point. Keep up with your water changes, keep monitoring them and keep us posted with any changes for now.

All the best,
David

[Eddie]

This does just sound like a settling issue. Be cautious of replies that say "you must" do anything.


Eddie

[3dees]

thanks everyone. problem solved. cleaned the Ehiem and raised the spray bar to get a little more surface movement. fish are breathing normal. either that or they just settled in. now I can get the rest of the fish from snookn21. sometimes I think I should have gotten a 20 gal. with plastic plants and some tetras, but oh are wild discus awesome.

[David Rose]

thanks everyone. problem solved. cleaned the Ehiem and raised the spray bar to get a little more surface movement. fish are breathing normal. either that or they just settled in. now I can get the rest of the fish from snookn21. sometimes I think I should have gotten a 20 gal. with plastic plants and some tetras, but oh are wild discus awesome.


Glad to hear it. If you ever need help with getting pictures posted on Simply, let us know. Some of us set up a free PhotoBucket (http://photobucket.com/) accounts to share our photos. PhotoBucket gives you a variety of options to do this. Just send me a PM if you're interested and I can walk you through it.

Take care,
David

[3dees]

thanks David. I have posted pics of my tank already. will post more pics after I recieve my other 5 wilds from snookn21 hopefully this week.

[3dees]

did'nt want to start a new thread as the problem is the basically the same; just a little worse. still having the problem of my fish breathing heavy and I am at a loss as to why. I have zero ammonia and nitrites and my nitrates are always about 5 ppm. my ph is a constant 7.6 and temp is 84. this is affecting all my fish (8 wild discus, 4 festivems, 25 lemon tetras). I do a 70% wc every two or three days. I have spray bars pointed at each other to creat a lot of surface movement and my fish are never gasping at the top of the tank so I don't think it's a oxygen problem. I have cleaned my filters and removed all but one inch of sand. I use prime with my wc's.
the strange thing is except for the heavy breathing you would think the fish are fine. they eat like pigs and swim all over the tank. thier color is good and they are getting bigger. thier poop looks normal. I have a feeling something is wrong with my water. when I do a wc the smaller fish are fine for a day then start breathing heavy. the discus breath heavy even after a wc. just a bit slower.
can anyone give me some advice? is there something I should test for. I am at a loss. I have never dealt with anything so frustrating as this. could it possibly be an oxygen problem even though the fish never go to the surface?
sorry for being so long winded but I am at the point of thinking of selling the tank. I'm just so tired of this and I can't seem to get a handle on whats wrong.

[jpancal]

What type of heater do you have?
Why I'm asking is I had the same issue and found out that my glass heater was broken and leaking into the tank. When I did a water change the fish's breathing would slow down a bit but after a few minutes they would start breathing fast again.

Also, is the pH of the water staying constant? Sometime fish will start breathing faster due to pH changes.

[3dees]

I have a ehiem thermo with built in heater. my ph is a constant 7.6.

[Jennie]

Did you ever add the airstones and have you considered the problem may be that filter. As read earlier on when you cleaned the filter the problem resolved. Maybe switch over to sponges??

[3dees]

well it did'nt solve the problem for long. I'm running an xp3 and a ehiem 2128 thermo. can't believe these filters are the problem. I have thought about airstones but don't know if that would help as I have plenty of surface aggitation now. the problem is that now they are breathing heavy (slower) right after a wc. even if I did'nt have any filter you would think that there would be enough oxygen after a 70% wc. I've had people tell me that if they are eating and not hiding and thier color is good then don't worry, but when I look at the fish I can't but feel that something is wrong. I guess it could be worse. none of the fish have died and they look and act normal. this is just so confusing.

[Jennie]

Fish breathing as fast as you describe is not normal. It's a cheap try as sponges don't cost but a few bucks. Run it with an air pump. Maybe adding it along with the filteration. At this it's worth a try rather than radically ditching the whole tank?? If that works somewhat either run both together or ditch the filter for a bit and see how they do