another PP question

[mugzy213]

I have have a 40 gal BB tank that I'm going to try my first PP treatment

anyways i have a MLgrram scale and measured to 40 gal is 151.2 liters. 151.2 liters x 2 mg/L = 302.4 mg or 0.302 grams


so after i make the stock solution i put the mix in slowly over a half an hour?

so here is what I'm confused

if it says pink great... but if it turn purple or brown then I re-dose? how much do i have to re-dose with? just enough to let it turn pink again?

what color does it turn if I have over measured? So If i over measured and put in some hydrogen peroxide to make it clear. Do i have to make a new stock solution with the dose i started with? 302.4 mg or 0.302 grams?

thanks for you help

[hedut]

read this will help http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/medicine_cabinet/potassium_permanganate.shtml

[mugzy213]

read this will help http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/medicine_cabinet/potassium_permanganate.shtml

Thanks,

so i am not re-dosing the whole amount then... just trying to get the water back to pink...


thx

[Jhhnn]

I recently ventured into the realm of PP treatment for a group of fish having stubborn rapid breathing problems. After some experimentation, this is what worked for me-

I first cleaned the tank thoroughly, squeezed out the sponge filters in a bucket of tank water and did a large water change using prime treated water that had been heated, aged and aerated for 36hrs.

I prepared a stock solution according to the directions in post #15 of this thread-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=70066

That's not for the initial dose, but rather for make-up dosing as the potency of the tank solution wears off... An entire liter is way more than you'll need.

For the initial dose, I measured the actual water volume, did the math to determine the correct amount to achieve 2ppm. I weighed out the right amount, added it to the tank over a few minutes time. The water turned what I would describe as a bright pink color, and the discus became somewhat distressed- dark color, huddling together, showing little activity. I also added vigorous aeration with an airstone.

What I discovered is that fish behavior is the key to maintaining the right concentration over time. In my tank, the water turns yellowish as the pp works on the organic matter, making judging the color difficult. When the fish started to perk up, I added small amounts of the solution described above to hold the concentration up. I used a pipette, but a syringe or dropper will work. Even in a very clean 75 gal tank, I needed to add ~5 ml of solution every hour or half hour or so. It seemed that the concentration was falling more quickly after several hours.

I kept this up for ~6 hours, checking the fish regularly, adding pp. Following a conversation with Kenny, I didn't neutralize the solution at the end, but rather left it to diminish on its own overnight. The fish were already a lot perkier an hour after the end of the 6 hour period. I changed water the next day, wiped down the tank interior to get rid of the brownish film that had developed.

All this was after I'd been a lot more cautious a couple of times through, which, of course, didn't have the desired effect. I plan on doing this every saturday for the next few weeks until I'm satisfied that the fish are healthy or dead. These fish haven't been right since I obtained them, and I can't afford to let whatever is wrong spread to my other tanks.

[mugzy213]

Hey Jhhnn,

Ok so am i adding my entire stock solutionto the tank? do i slowly put it in to maintain the pink color? So after my entire stock solution is in the tank do i make a new stock solution? but if i do that doesn't that make it more then 002ppm?

so if after my stock solution is in and it turned to the brownish color should i just add hydrogen peroxide and do a water change and try again another day?


sorry i have just read so much and now my brain is ready to Scrabble!



I recently ventured into the realm of PP treatment for a group of fish having stubborn rapid breathing problems. After some experimentation, this is what worked for me-

I first cleaned the tank thoroughly, squeezed out the sponge filters in a bucket of tank water and did a large water change using prime treated water that had been heated, aged and aerated for 36hrs.

I prepared a stock solution according to the directions in post #15 of this thread-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=70066

That's not for the initial dose, but rather for make-up dosing as the potency of the tank solution wears off... An entire liter is way more than you'll need.

For the initial dose, I measured the actual water volume, did the math to determine the correct amount to achieve 2ppm. I weighed out the right amount, added it to the tank over a few minutes time. The water turned what I would describe as a bright pink color, and the discus became somewhat distressed- dark color, huddling together, showing little activity. I also added vigorous aeration with an airstone.

What I discovered is that fish behavior is the key to maintaining the right concentration over time. In my tank, the water turns yellowish as the pp works on the organic matter, making judging the color difficult. When the fish started to perk up, I added small amounts of the solution described above to hold the concentration up. I used a pipette, but a syringe or dropper will work. Even in a very clean 75 gal tank, I needed to add ~5 ml of solution every hour or half hour or so. It seemed that the concentration was falling more quickly after several hours.

I kept this up for ~6 hours, checking the fish regularly, adding pp. Following a conversation with Kenny, I didn't neutralize the solution at the end, but rather left it to diminish on its own overnight. The fish were already a lot perkier an hour after the end of the 6 hour period. I changed water the next day, wiped down the tank interior to get rid of the brownish film that had developed.

All this was after I'd been a lot more cautious a couple of times through, which, of course, didn't have the desired effect. I plan on doing this every saturday for the next few weeks until I'm satisfied that the fish are healthy or dead. These fish haven't been right since I obtained them, and I can't afford to let whatever is wrong spread to my other tanks.

[flyman767]

mugzy,

I was a little nervous the first time I did it as well. However, I followed Carol Roberts newsletter in how to excecute the procedure. The article is well written and it's hard to mess it up. Anytime I use PP..I pull a hard copy of the procedure and follow it exactly...Ray

See page 12 of the following link:

http://www.discusnada.org/SampleNADAnewsletter.pdf

[underwaterforest]

Hey Jhhnn,

Ok so am i adding my entire stock solutionto the tank? do i slowly put it in to maintain the pink color? So after my entire stock solution is in the tank do i make a new stock solution? but if i do that doesn't that make it more then 002ppm?

so if after my stock solution is in and it turned to the brownish color should i just add hydrogen peroxide and do a water change and try again another day?


sorry i have just read so much and now my brain is ready to Scrabble!

Just add enough pp solution to bring the color back to pink don't redose the intial dose again. You want to add as little as possible to get the color back to pink. Those with very clean BB tank won't have to add much over the 3 hours and those with dirty tank will have to add more.

[mugzy213]

Just add enough pp solution to bring the color back to pink don't redose the intial dose again. You want to add as little as possible to get the color back to pink. Those with very clean BB tank won't have to add much over the 3 hours and those with dirty tank will have to add more.

Alex, thanks for ur reply.

So if the whole dose is in the tank and it turns brown and add more pp doesn't that mean your over 002 ppm?

[underwaterforest]

You only count the active PP, once it turns brown it is no longer active so you need to add more. So just assume light pink/pink = approx 2 ppm.

[Jhhnn]

Hey Jhhnn,

Ok so am i adding my entire stock solutionto the tank? do i slowly put it in to maintain the pink color? So after my entire stock solution is in the tank do i make a new stock solution? but if i do that doesn't that make it more then 002ppm?

so if after my stock solution is in and it turned to the brownish color should i just add hydrogen peroxide and do a water change and try again another day?

The objective is to accomplish 2 things-

#1. create a 2ppm concentration of PP in the tank water.

#2. maintain that for at least 4 hours.

To accomplish #1, add the weighed .3 Gram of PP to the 40gal tank, either as powder sprinkled on the surface or already dissolved in water. Observe the (Pink!) water color and fish behavior over the next 15 minutes or so. The fish will be somewhat distressed.

In order to accomplish #2, small amounts of a much stronger PP solution will need to be added as required. That's a judgement call on your part, based on water color and fish behavior. That solution can be prepared by dissolving ~2 grams of PP in 1/2 cup of water, which is close to 15 grams per liter. Add this to the tank with a pipette, syringe or dropper in small (~1ml) increments over time to keep the water color (active PP concentration) and corresponding fish behavior in the therapeutic range for at least 4 hours.

Don't be surprised if this doesn't work well the first time, if the water turns yellowish or brownish rather quickly, if you need to add more of the #2 solution than you thought. Clean the tank, change more water, try again in a day or two. You need to stick around, check the fish every half hour or so over the course of the 4+ hour treatment.

Depending on the pathogen affecting your fish, you may need to repeat treatment several times every 4-5 days...

I hope that makes it all a little clearer...

[mugzy213]

Thanks guys :)

[matthewh2]

Here Mugzy this will help you in pp prep, i use this and gives exact details on what to do

http://www.bidka.org/pp1.shtml

:)

[kaceyo]

One mistake I see people doing over and over is to add a water conditioner such as Prime, Safe, AmQuel etc to the water in the aging barrel or tank. Dechlorinaters will deactivate the PP on contact so don't use it when doing PP treatments.

[Jhhnn]

One mistake I see people doing over and over is to add a water conditioner such as Prime, Safe, AmQuel etc to the water in the aging barrel or tank. Dechlorinaters will deactivate the PP on contact so don't use it when doing PP treatments.

My level of experience is low, but I'm not sure I can agree with that. I delayed the normal evening water change until the next morning so as to allow the prime to maybe decrease in potency, yet have the freshest water possible for the treatment. I normally age prime treated water for 24hrs. I needed to add PP periodically over the course of treatment, anyway, so if prime treated water meant using more PP, it wasn't a big deal. Prime isn't a catalyst, but rather a reagent. I just work at keeping the water color and fish behavior where it needs to be...

My water normally has 1-2ppm chloramines, so I dose prime to neutralize the high end of that, and no more...

[seanyuki]

I agreed with Kacey.....as water conditioner will deactivate the PP during treatment.:)



One mistake I see people doing over and over is to add a water conditioner such as Prime, Safe, AmQuel etc to the water in the aging barrel or tank. Dechlorinaters will deactivate the PP on contact so don't use it when doing PP treatments.

[kaceyo]

Hey John,
Adding small amounts of dechlor to the barrel the day before may be fine, I'm not sure, as I add the conditioner in the tank just prior to refilling the tank after a wc. It probably has to do with the amount of conditioner used.
You can, however, use any dechlorinating conditioner as a replacement for HP to stop the action of the PP instantly.



My level of experience is low, but I'm not sure I can agree with that. I delayed the normal evening water change until the next morning so as to allow the prime to maybe decrease in potency, yet have the freshest water possible for the treatment. I normally age prime treated water for 24hrs. I needed to add PP periodically over the course of treatment, anyway, so if prime treated water meant using more PP, it wasn't a big deal. Prime isn't a catalyst, but rather a reagent. I just work at keeping the water color and fish behavior where it needs to be...

My water normally has 1-2ppm chloramines, so I dose prime to neutralize the high end of that, and no more...