Min. Size for a grow out tank?

[Matt0matic]

I'm looking for advice on what to do regarding growing out discus. I have a few options.

1. Get a small 29g BB tank to grow out 5 juv. discus.

2. Grow out the 5 discus in my 65g planted tank.

3. Wait, wait and wait some more to have the $ to buy 4-5" discus for the 65 gallon planted tank.

I would prefer to grow out a school of discus in either the 65 or 29. Although, I do not have room for a tank much longer than 30" so I'm thinking to pick up a 29g (30x12x18) from Petco with the $ per gallon sale. Or look for a 35g (30x12x22) off Craigslist or the like.

Thanks for your insight and advice!
Matthew

[j_li8]

Since you are limited to 30 inches, i would consider getting the 40 breeder from petco. its 36x16x18 which is actually a 45 gallon tank. It will give you some time to grow out 5-6 juvies before you will have to move them. I would go BB instead of planted until they are larger for the sake of easy clean up when feeding a lot. If you do want to go with planted right off the bat, option 3 would be better since they will require less feeding when they are larger. After plants and substrate, you would probably only want to keep about 4 adults in there.

[Eddie]

Yeah, 5-6 juvies will outgrow a 29 gallon fast. Some people have grown a few fish out to adults in a 29 but its highly unlikely and I would NOT recommend it.

Eddie

[Matt0matic]

Since you are limited to 30 inches, i would consider getting the 40 breeder from petco. its 36x16x18 which is actually a 45 gallon tank.
I ONLY have ~30" to work with I would already have the 40 breeder if I had the room.

It will give you some time to grow out 5-6 juvies before you will have to move them. I would go BB instead of planted until they are larger for the sake of easy clean up when feeding a lot.
That is my intention, a BB grow out tank; but is 29 gallons sufficent to grow out 5 2.5" discus?

If you do want to go with planted right off the bat, option 3 would be better since they will require less feeding when they are larger. After plants and substrate, you would probably only want to keep about 4 adults in there.
This is my least favorite idea, if needed I will purchase adult discus, but I am really looking forward to raising some.

[Eddie]

I ONLY have ~30" to work with I would already have the 40 breeder if I had the room.

Then you may want to rethink your plan, a 29 is not sufficient.

That is my intention, a BB grow out tank; but is 29 gallons sufficent to grow out 5 2.5" discus?

See above

This is my least favorite idea, if needed I will purchase adult discus, but I am really looking forward to raising some.

Growing discus out requires time, effort, space (like tank size) and the ability to control water quality.

[Matt0matic]

Growing discus out requires time, effort, space (like tank size) and the ability to control water quality.

The only part I am lacking is the space. What would be the minimum size tank to grow out ~5 discus?

[Eddie]

The only part I am lacking is the space. What would be the minimum size tank to grow out ~5 discus?


For me, a 55

[Matt0matic]

I think I need to voice my goals, I'm not after show winning discus, or breeding show winning discus. Nothing close to a 6-7 point discus. Just something decent to look at and enjoy. I don't want or see any need for a 7"+ discus and would actually prefer a smaller sized fish. I hope this clarifies my direction in the hobby, and I admire the people, almost all the people on this site, that have the highest of standards and grow the high scoring show discus that are absolutely stunning!

From these responses I think my best bet would be to find an importer or breeder with a large selection on discus strains and get a colorful group of 5 adult discus, and spare myself the scrutiny of growing juvies.

[Eddie]

I think I need to voice my goals, I'm not after show winning discus, or breeding show winning discus. Nothing close to a 6-7 point discus. Just something decent to look at and enjoy. I don't want or see any need for a 7"+ discus and would actually prefer a smaller sized fish. I hope this clarifies my direction in the hobby, and I admire the people, almost all the people on this site, that have the highest of standards and grow the high scoring show discus that are absolutely stunning!

From these responses I think my best bet would be to find an importer or breeder with a large selection on discus strains and get a colorful group of 5 adult discus, and spare myself the scrutiny of growing juvies.


Well this is fine but there are discus and then are poor examples of them. I have plenty of discus and NONE of them are show quality. Grooming a champion is million times different than keeping a nice discus.

If you dont care about what your discus turn out to look like, do what you have planned, a 29 gallon will be fine for your standard.


Eddie

[nc0gnet0]

You could get away with a 55 gallon hex and still meet your footprint. Not ideal, but a whole lot better than a 29 gallon.

[Matt0matic]

If you dont care about what your discus turn out to look like,
I really hoped that my post would not come across like that, I do care what they turn out like; I was just trying to express that my standard are probably lower than what many of you (plural) have or want to achieve. In the University subfourm I would be happy with many of the discus in the ~5.0 point range that I have seen.


do what you have planned, a 29 gallon will be fine for your standard.

Would the 5.0 discus would it grow better in the cramped 29 or planted 65? No point in spending money if I can achieve a 5.0 discus in a planted non-BB tank.

Thanks for the advice so far, and the more I read the more I'm leaning toward adult discus. And as far as a 55hex, The 29 only became an option due to Craigslist and Petco $/gallon pricing. I'll keep an eye open to see if I can find any larger small footprint tanks.

[jball1125]

Just an option: Why dont you move your plants to the 29 and use the 65 bb as a grow out.

Also remember that growing out discus is alot of work (Lots of food and lots of water changes)

It might be better for you to start with some adults in the already planted tank.

Kenny sells plenty of adult fish at very reasonable prices and amazing quality.

[nc0gnet0]

Unless you have the filter, the heater, airstones, lights, hood........you will get a better deal on craigslist. Sure the petco deal is good, but they count on you needing the rest of the stuff to go with it.

[Eddie]

I really hoped that my post would not come across like that, I do care what they turn out like; I was just trying to express that my standard are probably lower than what many of you (plural) have or want to achieve. In the University subfourm I would be happy with many of the discus in the ~5.0 point range that I have seen.

Would the 5.0 discus would it grow better in the cramped 29 or planted 65? No point in spending money if I can achieve a 5.0 discus in a planted non-BB tank.

Thanks for the advice so far, and the more I read the more I'm leaning toward adult discus. And as far as a 55hex, The 29 only became an option due to Craigslist and Petco $/gallon pricing. I'll keep an eye open to see if I can find any larger small footprint tanks.

If you get 5, there will be a leader, the Alpha fish. This fish will prevent the other fish from getting food and ultimately affect their growth. Then you take into account the tank size, this will affect their growth. Then add the the ability to control water quality, this affects growth. All of these can be eliminated by having a larger tank. Its not about growing out a show fish, its about giving them all a chance to develop correctly.

Going with adults in your planted tank might be your better option. Adults tend to be more forgiving and can be fed less frequently.

HTH

Eddie

[mmorris]

You can't use the 29 to grow out discus! We are not giving you that advice so you can grow out show winners. We are giving you that advice in order to keep you out of the disease section a bit down the road. Strip out the 65 gallon tank and get yourself 6-7 little ones or buy adults. I consider 6 to be the minimum number of discus one should get (apart from a breeding pair) and a 55 gallon is, IMO, the minimum size tank. This is the tank I took apart for discus:

[DiscusKev]

Just an option: Why dont you move your plants to the 29 and use the 65 bb as a grow out.

Also remember that growing out discus is alot of work (Lots of food and lots of water changes)

It might be better for you to start with some adults in the already planted tank.

Kenny sells plenty of adult fish at very reasonable prices and amazing quality.

+1

That's a beautiful planted tank Martha, worth that sacriface though...

[peterhql]

IMO,
If I had a choice between the planted and a BB 29. It would be a BB 29. I tried a planted 60 gallon with 7 juvies and I did water changes EVERY DAY. no dice, eventually I had 3 sick discus, saved one and lost the other two. The water is never clean in a planted tank.

-Peter

[Matt0matic]

IMO,
If I had a choice between the planted and a BB 29. It would be a BB 29. I tried a planted 60 gallon with 7 juvies and I did water changes EVERY DAY. no dice, eventually I had 3 sick discus, saved one and lost the other two. The water is never clean in a planted tank.

-Peter

When talking about un-clean water in a planted tank, are you referring to the NO2 NO3 NH4 in the tank? Or just in reference to the planted tanks providing a safe haven for bacteria (both good and bad)?

Because I have always kept the lowest reading of NO3,NO2,NH4/3 in a planted tank than not. So in that sense I do not understand how a planted tank isn't as 'clean.'

But if you (plural) are referring to the ability of the plants, rocks, substrate, to harbor bacteria as unclean; then yes, I completely agree.

And when dealing with a BB tank the only refugee for bacteria is going to be your filtration media, but the multiple daily water changes would eliminate any of the problems associated with a small bacteria colony that could not keep up with the bioload and the nitrogen cycle.

Am I headed in the correct direction?

I might be needing to start a new thread in the Disease subfourm but is there a statistical increase in sickness from keeping discus in a planted tank?

I'm off to keep reading some more before I make any irreversible mistakes/ purchases.

Thank you all for the advice and information.

[Matt0matic]

You can't use the 29 to grow out discus! We are not giving you that advice so you can grow out show winners. We are giving you that advice in order to keep you out of the disease section a bit down the road. Strip out the 65 gallon tank and get yourself 6-7 little ones or buy adults. I consider 6 to be the minimum number of discus one should get (apart from a breeding pair) and a 55 gallon is, IMO, the minimum size tank. This is the tank I took apart for discus:

Wow, beautiful tank! I am sorry you had to take it down.

For me, and please don't flame me, I wish to have the beautiful discus and the beauty of a planted tank. And getting a proper planted tank like the one you took down takes a lot of time and consideration (and the $) so unless I come across some more room to get another larger tank I will be purchasing adults to put in the planted tank.

[jballauer]

I certainly cannot advocate dismantling the planted tank. If people here at SD truly knew how difficult, expensive, and time consuming getting a great planted tank running is, they wouldn't recommend you do it.

I have a couple of thoughts here.

You don't have to grow out your discus completely...only partially, to the point where you are confident that they will not get out-competed for food and they are well-prepared for a safe transition. A 29 gallon can handle 5 juvies for at least several months before they need larger accommodations. Certainly, you wouldn't grow them out completely, but you could get them to 4 or 5" inches...which I think is plenty large enough for moving to your main tank.

Might be a different story with wilds, but domestic-bred discus aren't as weak as people think...and with good biological filtration on a grow-out tank, you can do better than you think.

I also believe that the tank will let you know when it's unhealthy for the fish by result of simple water tests. It will let you know when the bioload is too much. At that point, you determine water change schedules and/or new accommodations.

The key to success is to have a lush, stable planted tank that is well-beyond any growing pains. You will always have bacteria, but if other fish live fine in it, especially a fish like a german blue ram, then your discus will be fine as well. And even if there is a problem, there's nothing that says you can't also treat that tank...or certain inhabitants within. There are good meds that do well against parasites and worms in large planted tanks without a whole lot of distruction to either the plants or the bio-filter.

Sure, ideally, you'd grow discus out in a 55 gallon, with the hope of always maintaining the 1 discus/10 gallon rule. But that's just not always practical, nor is it always necessary.

A good planted tank can really please your discus...but the real challenge is to assure that your planted tank is actually a good one. With good quarantine procedures of everything that goes INTO your main tank, there's no reason why you can't introduce discus before they are fully grown out. I have a feeling that people do not have the same disciplines with their planted tanks as they do their beloved juvenile discus. A healthy planted tank, with healthy inhabitants (don't guess about that...know it) will be just fine for any well-adapted, suitable fish.

A healthy planted tank takes a LONG time to assure...which is why dismantling an already good planted tank (or one that is close to becoming so) likely isn't a good way to go about it.

Probably not a popular .02 cents, but it's mine anyway.

[Eddie]

Good luck! I'm pretty new to the forum and havent seen it a million times over again. :o

[Skip]

So what happend Matt.. ?? what did you decide?

[Danimal]

i have a 40 gallon thats 30'' L x 24'' T x 13'' W it was new for around $45.00