BIOTOPE ONLY SECTION?? Your thoughts please?

[grantbudd74]

Hi there

I have been looking through the planted section trying to find photos of biotope setups and all I find are planted tanks that look great but do not fit the bill.

Does anyone reading this think it would be a good idea to separate that section in to planted tanks only given most of the sticky's are about planted tanks.

We could then have a Biotope only section so for those of us who wish to create something different or for those of you lucky enough to have wilds who wish to create the amazon in your own living room have a great starting point.

I am getting a 10 footer in a week and really have NO idea how to landscape it but I like the idea of Keep It Simple stupid (k.i.s.s) as planted tanks are way too much work.

Just a thought and if anyone has any photos they wish to share please go right ahead. Not interested in tanks full of swords and crypts as I have done that.

Please also post any links to photos or setup guidelines you may find. Thanks everyone...

Grant :-)

[Rex82]

+1

[arabu1973]

Hi Grant, you might like my setup ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm0-6tKWWBs

[grantbudd74]

great set up. I like the layout and the wood mixed with rocks and lots of places for fish to hide as if in the real river. I must admit I have have read so much about not having angels and discus together. How do your go?

I would like to see some still photos of the whole setup (tank only) if you have any. I can view it better and take time to pull certain points of interest into my system maybe.

Thanks so far guys

[Jennie]

this is an informative site on biotope which includes photos and biotope setups for all species by the species
http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm

[William Palumbo]

I have a 125 Bio-tope with Wild Greens, and some Altafrons. Other than some algae, no green at all. A thin, white sand bottom, with LOTS of wood. Mostly branches. Low light, tannin stained water...a close to the real thing as you can get. Totally natural...Bill

[illumnae]

I'm very into biotope tanks so I approve of this suggestion! :) I have 2 biotope style tanks currently, one for altums and one for heckels

[Harriett]

BILL: PLZ POST A PIC of your tank. This biotope is completely awesome and one of the most original creative tanks I have seen in a long while. I hope to mimic some of the elements when I set mine up.I was hoping you would post on this thread.

Although I don't post photos, I am a BIG biotope fan and am planning on now for a group of wild looking scribblets that are growing out [thanks again, Bill] and would very happy to see a section devoted to biotopes--I think many hear would be interested.

Thank,
Harriett

[3dees]

seeing that I only have one tank and it's a biotope I'll agree. then again someone will argue about whether it's a true biotope. mine is'nt and it's hard to find a true biotope. most of our tanks are amazon looking tanks but not true biotopes.

[grantbudd74]

I think amazon looking tanks would be great to see. Its just the islands of plants and wood and well manicured layouts are something that are impressive yet not for this area. Anything that is closely following a biotope would be great to see as well. Get your photos coming in guys and thanks for the link Ill have a look after work.

Grant

Do you use any type of wood? What make a good piece of wood? I have been walking miles around the local area and there are plenty of dead trees as its now winter. I even found a thistle bush which is totally dead but looks like a cactus that has no needles so its interesting to look at although it still has dead needles so i'll have to be careful! Was thinking to silicon it to the base of the tank so it looks like it is growing upward and out like a submerged tree.

[William Palumbo]

Thanks Harriett! Just so hard to get good pics. But here are a few bad pics, and a worst video!. Hard to show the 3-D effect of the branches on the outside of the tank. lining up with the branches on the inside of the tank. I'll try to get better shots. During every waterchange, the branches shift and move under their own weight, causing a bit of a different layout once the water fills back up. So it never stays exactly the same, and looks so cool, when it's drained half way down, and the branches are sticking up out of the water!...Bill

[William Palumbo]

A crappy vid...Bill
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad154/WJPALUMBO/th_bio043.jpg (http://s931.photobucket.com/albums/ad154/WJPALUMBO/?action=view&current=bio043.mp4)

[jball1125]

Thats a very nice representation of wild discus habitat. (where the discus may travel but no vacume will ever reach.. lol) Your wilds must feel very at home.

Th:anks for sharing, I really like it!
:)

[tacks]

Hi Bill you have done a great job on your tank. Bill what are the measurements of your tank please. thanks for the pictures. Ed

[grantbudd74]

Bill! Wow great vid mate!! Now this is what we are talking about!! What branches do you use? I see you have leaves in there, how often do you cut new branches down as I am sure these would rot down and die??

Your fish look very happy there. Lots of places to hide yet they are out at the front of the tank..

Can you share anymore info?

Anyone else wish to share with video or photos?

Lets try and make this stick for future reference..

Grant

[Harriett]

I am sure Bill will answer your questions about the tank, but one of the things I like most about this tank and want to point out as an educational TIP is the back ground--I encourage you to go back to the video and look at the background--it is in fact a splotchy gold/green/brown/red with metalic flecks that he painted onto the tank back and it MAKES this tank work. I have never seen this done before -- just poorly printed fake looking backgrounds that look crappy or our usual flat one color attempts to add ambience and frame the tank.. This one is terrific and sets the scene for the rest of the additions--the branch effect, etc. The video doesn't give you the real feeling of standing in front of the tank exactly. What you see when you stand there is that there are branches in the tank, and on the 2 long ends, there are branches and plants outside the tank--it's hard to tell what is inside and what is outside, which adds tremendous depth to the scape when you view it.
I was bowled over the first time I saw it and it is still an effect that grabs me whenever I am visiting Bill in his fishroom. He is a really artistic humble guy.

Best regards,
Harriett

[3dees]

I went with a black background. wish I could change it but too much work in moving the tank from the wall. anyway, here's my almost biotope.

[Harriett]

Nice looking tank, 3dees, and you are correct! It IS a PITA to the change background color after the tank is done--I did that once and am planning to do it again this summer. [I must be nuts] BUT to give you inspiration, take a look at Bill Palumbo's background--that is what convinced me to do it--the combo of the different colors and the flecks of metaliic in there just sends me. I think you are on the right path with the tank--one suggestion I might add: You can get more 'movement' in the tank if you have branches going horizontally across the tank--it makes it feel like you are seeing a portion of a moving river--the fish will swim around them. In any event, enjoy!
Best regards,
Harriett

[brewmaster15]

Hi there

I have been looking through the planted section trying to find photos of biotope setups and all I find are planted tanks that look great but do not fit the bill.

Does anyone reading this think it would be a good idea to separate that section in to planted tanks only given most of the sticky's are about planted tanks.

We could then have a Biotope only section so for those of us who wish to create something different or for those of you lucky enough to have wilds who wish to create the amazon in your own living room have a great starting point.

I am getting a 10 footer in a week and really have NO idea how to landscape it but I like the idea of Keep It Simple stupid (k.i.s.s) as planted tanks are way too much work.

Just a thought and if anyone has any photos they wish to share please go right ahead. Not interested in tanks full of swords and crypts as I have done that.

Please also post any links to photos or setup guidelines you may find. Thanks everyone...

Grant :-)

One step ahead of you Grant.:)

Our Newest Mod with a green thumb Chad Hughes and I discussed this last week and we'll be making changes to this section's layout that I believe will make things alot better when looking for info on this topic.:):):)

best regards,
al

[William Palumbo]

Thanks everyone. Harriett, the "metallic" flakes you see, is actually the REFLEC-TEX insulation showing thru the sponged on paint. I liked the way the tank looked without the insulation, but I need it on. If the heating and evaporation was not an issue, I would like to have no top at all on it. Let terrestrial plants root into the water, and have more wood and foliage above it. The branches I get from some sort of flowering bush in my backyard. I have used it for many years, first testing on culls to make sure it was safe. After time the smaller braches "rot" away. They fall to the bottom, giving an even more natural appearance. The leaves are actually fake. Bought from a craft store, made from a material, silk maybe. In the more drabber colors, they look most realistic and "aged" I just have two of the largest AQUA-CLEARS hanging on one end of the tank for filtration. The flow is river like, and at the opposite end, is much calmer water. Tho as natural as it looks, it's still tapwater. Hard and alkaline. Maybe with my new higher output RO, I'll try and duplicate the water chemistry as well...Bill

[grantbudd74]

hey 3dees I love you tank. What are the other fish in there? So looking at peoples tanks so far most of you use branching wood. Is this just a simple case of going to the local woody area and getting some dead stuff? I have a lot on offer as its winter and lots of trees have fallen.

Wish I could write more but I have to go to work...Very exciting to see great photos...I wish I could have a big group of wilds!

[3dees]

Harriett, yes I agree. Bill's background is awesome, but I cringe just thinking about changing mine. I am now soaking a manzanita stump and more branches and will remove the cypress stump. I'm planning to use the branches as you suggested. would like to place some leaves in there but it's hard to clean the sand with the wood as it is.
grantbudd74, there are 25 lemon tetras and 1 bn pleco. I'm afraid I buy my wood as manzanita does'nt grow around here. being so close to Chicago I don't know if I would use any wood found locally.

[Harriett]

Harriett, yes I agree. Bill's background is awesome, but I cringe just thinking about changing mine. I am now soaking a manzanita stump and more branches and will remove the cypress stump. I'm planning to use the branches as you suggested. would like to place some leaves in there but it's hard to clean the sand with the wood as it is.
grantbudd74, there are 25 lemon tetras and 1 bn pleco. I'm afraid I buy my wood as manzanita does'nt grow around here. being so close to Chicago I don't know if I would use any wood found locally.

You can buy silk leaves at a craft store like Michaels. Look at Bill's tank on this thread--the wood is from his backyard and the residence is in Chgo.
Best regards,
Harriett

[Discus master]

Thanks everyone. Harriett, the "metallic" flakes you see, is actually the REFLEC-TEX insulation showing thru the sponged on paint. I liked the way the tank looked without the insulation, but I need it on. If the heating and evaporation was not an issue, I would like to have no top at all on it. Let terrestrial plants root into the water, and have more wood and foliage above it. The branches I get from some sort of flowering bush in my backyard. I have used it for many years, first testing on culls to make sure it was safe. After time the smaller braches "rot" away. They fall to the bottom, giving an even more natural appearance. The leaves are actually fake. Bought from a craft store, made from a material, silk maybe. In the more drabber colors, they look most realistic and "aged" I just have two of the largest AQUA-CLEARS hanging on one end of the tank for filtration. The flow is river like, and at the opposite end, is much calmer water. Tho as natural as it looks, it's still tapwater. Hard and alkaline. Maybe with my new higher output RO, I'll try and duplicate the water chemistry as well...Bill

So the branches you used are not, drift wood obviously as I am curently using branches in addition to driftwood it looks and works great I just clean it up make sure theres not rough edges or sap thats going to get into my system and my other driftwood has stoped leeching tannins at this poitn. But what I wanted to ask you is you are using the branches you find on the ground not ones you are breaking off the bush correct? the reason why I ask is because I am not finished yet with mine adn I don't know if I ever will be satisfied but I would think you would need to use the dead branches because of sap and things like that so what are you using and whats your cleaning process I try to keep mine very simple indeed. thanks for any information you can provide and your set up is awsome, my tank has not top and I let my branches stick up out of the water and come into the room looks cool this way and I have also thought about letting the land plants roots dip into the water but I am not sure what kind of land plants to sue that would look nice nor am I totally sure how to attach them and I still need room to get in there and clean you know???? thanks again

[William Palumbo]

I break off the dead branches I find on the bush, brush off any really loose bark, and basically just put inside my tank. I don't rinse since they are only exposed to air and rain. I have not tried any "live" branches yet. Luckily this bush supplies me with what I need. An open top does look cool. Especially with the branches exposed...Bill

[Discus master]

I break off the dead branches I find on the bush, brush off any really loose bark, and basically just put inside my tank. I don't rinse since they are only exposed to air and rain. I have not tried any "live" branches yet. Luckily this bush supplies me with what I need. An open top does look cool. Especially with the branches exposed...Bill

Only thing is I have to crank my heaters up a bit more because the exposed surface it a bit harder to get the temp up. I do not worry about jumping fish mine do not. I wish I knew what kind of bush you had, But i am going to a large wooded county park after work today with my girls to look for some awsome branches. I wish how I knew if they were safe I think pretty much anything would be as long as it has no bus or mildew mold and no sap would be another concern hence pine tree branches would be out for sure tons of sap I bet. So ok then I think you made me feel a bit more comfortable with what I am doing, I did put on branch I found in the tank this week end and the week before that I found cleaned a nice size drift wood and cleaned it up scrubed it as it had some alge and so forth on it si hat I cleaned up and so fr so good no problems. I had some tannis lech but now it has stoped with the driftwood in the lake so long i am sure it lost most of it. do you find you get a lot of tannis from the branches you use as I do not only from the actual drift wood. Would you say pretty much any branch is safe as long as it does not have those things I had mentioned earlier? Oh and i also use a dremal tool to smooth down and rough edges so to help keep the fish from getting scaped do you do anything like that? I als figured after a while the branches will get slimy any way which would help coat the branch. Finally when you clean do you take the wood out to do it? rite now I do or at least most of it it is a PIA!!!! for sure and would just like to leave it and vacume around it but would I still be able to keep my tank clean if I just kept it in? I think I could anyway just a bit more of a chanelge to go around. I use a long garden hose ran directly to my shower and i change about 75 - 80% of the water every otehr day now I was doing ti every day and I just scled back my discus are around the 3 - 3.5 inch range?? thank you for your feed back it really helps me a lot thank you.

[William Palumbo]

The main reasons I do not keep my top open is because of the heating issue you mentioned, and the fishroom is very humid as it is, I don't need 125gallons of heated water adding to it. I have collected branches from other places as well. As you said, stay away from any with any type of "funny" growth on it, like fungus. With me being a breeder, I always have some culls on hand to "test" any new wood, sponges, hoses, ect. It makes it a lot easier when I try stuff out on them first. Conifer(Pine) branches I would stay away from because of sap,plus they do not have the "branchy" character you are looking for. If not sure, put the branches in an extra tank with water and throw in some Guppies or "feeders" and watch how they do. I have a group of Geo. Altafrons in the tank, and they keep my sand very clean by sifting it thru their gills. I hardly vacuum it anymore. I let the sticks get dirty, which looks very natural, so I do not clean them at all. The waterchanges make the branches rise and fall, change position, and knocks dirt off them enough for me. I agree it's a PITA to get into it, that is why when I was setting it up, I tried to do so without me having to constantly get in it to maintain it. Mine is as low tech/maintenance free as it can be. Other than cleaning/changing the filter media, and wiping the front pane of glass...that's about it...Bill

[Discus master]

The main reasons I do not keep my top open is because of the heating issue you mentioned, and the fishroom is very humid as it is, I don't need 125gallons of heated water adding to it. I have collected branches from other places as well. As you said, stay away from any with any type of "funny" growth on it, like fungus. With me being a breeder, I always have some culls on hand to "test" any new wood, sponges, hoses, ect. It makes it a lot easier when I try stuff out on them first. Conifer(Pine) branches I would stay away from because of sap,plus they do not have the "branchy" character you are looking for. If not sure, put the branches in an extra tank with water and throw in some Guppies or "feeders" and watch how they do. I have a group of Geo. Altafrons in the tank, and they keep my sand very clean by sifting it thru their gills. I hardly vacuum it anymore. I let the sticks get dirty, which looks very natural, so I do not clean them at all. The waterchanges make the branches rise and fall, change position, and knocks dirt off them enough for me. I agree it's a PITA to get into it, that is why when I was setting it up, I tried to do so without me having to constantly get in it to maintain it. Mine is as low tech/maintenance free as it can be. Other than cleaning/changing the filter media, and wiping the front pane of glass...that's about it...Bill

Wow your my kinda fish keeper I am the same way I do wipe the inside of the tank as well once a week but other than that it sounds like you are rite on track with my school of thught. But just a couple more questions for you do you find though when you do a water change you knock crap off your branches and stuff and it cluds the water? I do then I end up doing another water chnage rite after to clean this out is it needed for me to this? will the tank settel back down after a while if I would just be patient enough to let it? I thought plant matter decompsing in your tank was bad for your water chemisty thas why whne I clean mine out evry other day 75 80% I am really really good about tryong to get evry littel pie of debris is the nesisary?
and I have two angle Boita loaches I was hoipng they would keep the sand clean for me I guess they do an ok job but what are the fish you are talking abut what is their commo name I never heard of them before? I heard the one loach I cant think of it now atually burry them selves in the sand to clean it out oh I cant think of what it is called now man that ticks me off or do you think I am good with the two loaches and one cory cat I have other than those 3 fish thats all I have in my tank besides the 6 discus in my 55 gallon thats it??

Hey I do really apreciate hearning from someone with exp espically a breeder and taking th time out to speak to some on who is fairly new only 4 or 5 months into the hobby of discus keeping it mean a lot to me and it does not go un noticed or un apreciated I try and relay that message to any one with exp who is taking time out of there day to answer my questions thank you again I was raised to have some manors and 33 years latter I am trying to teach it to my kids my setting an example thank you

[Discus master]

The main reasons I do not keep my top open is because of the heating issue you mentioned, and the fishroom is very humid as it is, I don't need 125gallons of heated water adding to it. I have collected branches from other places as well. As you said, stay away from any with any type of "funny" growth on it, like fungus. With me being a breeder, I always have some culls on hand to "test" any new wood, sponges, hoses, ect. It makes it a lot easier when I try stuff out on them first. Conifer(Pine) branches I would stay away from because of sap,plus they do not have the "branchy" character you are looking for. If not sure, put the branches in an extra tank with water and throw in some Guppies or "feeders" and watch how they do. I have a group of Geo. Altafrons in the tank, and they keep my sand very clean by sifting it thru their gills. I hardly vacuum it anymore. I let the sticks get dirty, which looks very natural, so I do not clean them at all. The waterchanges make the branches rise and fall, change position, and knocks dirt off them enough for me. I agree it's a PITA to get into it, that is why when I was setting it up, I tried to do so without me having to constantly get in it to maintain it. Mine is as low tech/maintenance free as it can be. Other than cleaning/changing the filter media, and wiping the front pane of glass...that's about it...Bill

After you read my latest questions if you are up to it I have started another thread in this forum regarding plants and such if you are up to it maybe you would be willing to take alook at it for me and offer some more of you exp, notice how I am trying to butter you up for some awsome adivce??? lol lol thanks man and if you do not have the time dont worry about it.:angel:

[GrillMaster]

Maybe make this a sticky?

BTW... Beautiful tank Bill!! :thumbsup:

[Discus master]

Maybe make this a sticky?

BTW... Beautiful tank Bill!! :thumbsup:

Good idea I 2nd and 3rd that motion.:D

[Harriett]

I think the idea of starting this thread was to see about interest in developing a SECTION for biotopes, so you are on the right track here!
Harriett

[jimg]

This got me going! I broke down a 90 planted to start a biotope. pool filter sand sub etc. I got my wilds out of other tanks to prep to put together in this tank.Two things I thought I would never do again,wild angels and substrate.

[Doc_Polit]

A Biotope only section would be cool. Hopefully the mods will agree.