Algae bloom!

[Yashua]

I'm doing daily water changes of 35% but my water is still cloudy just like the beginning of the bloom (green water not algae on the wall) I'm not adding anything and I'm just wondering how long it will take for my tank to clear up after a bloom?

[Jennie]

aquarium uv sterilization for free floating.

[Dutch dude]

I'm not a big fan of UV sterilizers becouse I think it does not take away the reason for an algea bloom.

In general a bloom of floating green algea is coused by high nitrate and or phosphate levels in combination with light (especialy UV from sun light for example). Lots of plant ferts contain nitrates and phosphates as well and can very well be the source for algea issues. Since you wrote you don't add anything to the water we can rule out that as posible couse. Your tap water might be a source of phosphates and nitrates as well but in a normal situation it should not be high enough to couse problems. Tap water needs to be within the limits set for human consumption and for that the phosphates and nitrates levels should be withing a doable range. On the other hand I have know idea how the limits are set outside western Europe. Nitrates is easy to measure and an decent fish store can provide you tests for phosphates as well. Your water supplier can give you info on the parameters as well and can provide it to you.

Light is an other factor that is nessesary to get an algea bloom. In general high levels of blue and UV in tube lights promote algea to grow. The higher the light level the faster algea can grow. I prefer cool white and warm white standard tube lights becouse of the lower blue and UV level and an increased red level promoting growth of aquatic plants and swamp plants. The light is warm and does not exaggerate colors and give a natural color. Maybe you can tel us more abouth the size of the tank (especialy footprint) number of tube lights, color of the tube lights and how long the lights are on. Is there a window nearby cousing lots of daylight in your tank?

Now every situation is diferent. What works for one tank does not have to work for an other tank. Lighting periods of 10 hours a day should be a save start and from there you can fine tune until you reach the point the algea are reducing. It takes time to fine tune and small changes are nessesary. Once fine tuned you can reach a balance making your tank more stable. I prefer this method over chemicals and equipment. In the method I mentioned "patience" is the main factor but it comes for free ;)

[Raghavan]

Try Algaefix. It worked very good for our systems

[Yashua]

Thanks for the great info... It's an 80 gal tank just over 4' long.. I have a quad light system with 2 12k lights and 2 6,700k lights. I run the lights 8 hrs a day with the lights overlapping for stronger light in mid day... I have been leaving lights off for water change but just yesterday I tested for phosphates and it was around 2-3 ppm so I know I have a phosphate problem but every water change I do it just doesn't seem to help... I have a gravel substrate and I have been vacuuming and there is hardly any waste in the rocks... The only thing I have done is add new black gravel to my tank, I washed the rocks until water was clear but maybe not enough? I was reading new rocks can contain contaminants and so with no ammo, no nitrate or nitrites in the water my fish are swimming and looking healthy along with my plants. I'm doing daily water changes but the cloudiness doesn't go away and if I don't do a follow up wc the next day the water turns green. I know I shouldn't use any products but I'm angling for some chemical help along with changes to get my phos back under control. I know you don't recommend uv lights but I have been researching them and to tell you the truth I build pools as a profession and we have been using uv lights for some time and the maker of great pool products is Pentair,.. To my surprise they have a full line of uv products for pools ponds and fishtanks? Can someone just give me pros and cons of uv without their personal bias? Technology can be a great thing as long as your willing to follow directions... Remember that :)

[jimg]

I would reduce the light until the plants catch up with competing for nutrients . I also never used lights over 6700k for freshwater plants.
Many types of fish food contain high amounts of phosphate.
High temps can also play a roll.
There is always phosban if needed

[Yashua]

At this point I have lights off, and doing wc... I will check phosban at the store and see if I can use low levels along with wc to at least get under control Ty.

[Dutch dude]

I would reduce the light until the plants catch up with competing for nutrients . I also never used lights over 6700k for freshwater plants.


I completely agrea on that. I have only 2 tube lights on my 75 (I do have mirrors on top of the lights). Each tubelight is 38 Watt, a cool white (philips 840) and a warm white (philips 830). I expect your issue is coused by to strong lighting and the high UV and blue level of your 12K lights. The higher the color temperature the less red, the more blue and UV.

UV sterilizers:
- only work at low flow rate or high power (Watt)
- dirt built up in the sterilizer reduces UV light making it useless
- if properly used it will kill most micro organisms running through the system but won't have any effect in the tank it selves
- it does not take away the couse
- UV lights need to be replaced at least every year

20 years ago people did not used UV sterilizers but still reached nice balanced tanks without issues. Nowadays we seem to grab what looks like the easiest method. Sometimes they work but imo more often they give issues. They do get promoted by suppliers and shops and are a great way to earn money. Just my 2 ct

[Dutch dude]

Forgotten something,.....I advice you to only use the 2 6,700 light at 10 hours a day maximum and leave the 12K lights off.

[Yashua]

I appreciate your input but as I said non biased info please... I just have to say it's people with no acceptance of change that hinders the advancement of the very thing they love. I agree that people had gorgeous tanks back then with no problems, unfortunately with time comes new problems never faced before... Thus the creation of new items to better help the life of your fish... Don't hear me saying this for defense on the uv systems, it is more so on your response thanks.

[jimg]

I completely agrea on that. I have only 2 tube lights on my 75 (I do have mirrors on top of the lights). Each tubelight is 38 Watt, a cool white (philips 840) and a warm white (philips 830). I expect your issue is coused by to strong lighting and the high UV and blue level of your 12K lights. The higher the color temperature the less red, the more blue and UV.

UV sterilizers:
- only work at low flow rate or high power (Watt)
- dirt built up in the sterilizer reduces UV light making it useless
- if properly used it will kill most micro organisms running through the system but won't have any effect in the tank it selves
- it does not take away the couse
- UV lights need to be replaced at least every year

20 years ago people did not used UV sterilizers but still reached nice balanced tanks without issues. Nowadays we seem to grab what looks like the easiest method. Sometimes they work but imo more often they give issues. They do get promoted by suppliers and shops and are a great way to earn money. Just my 2 ct

+1

[Dutch dude]

Oke,....not where you asked for and I realize you sell the sterilizers.......There is a huge market for equipment and products if it comes to our hobby. I tried to explain we can do very well without them (20 years ago they did not exist). Imo people grab to easy to items like that but don't solve the initial problem. It is like a to strong light in your living room almost blinding you and then go to a shop and buy expensive sun glasses in stead of buying a smaller light bulb for your living room. As long as you wear the sun glasses there is no issues but when you take them off the problem is still there.

I don't see what acceptance of change has to do with the above written. In fact I started out with the Dennerle systematics (German brand) including a fertilizing system and aditional equipment like CO2 under gravel heating cable and so on. I stepped back from it becouse in my expirience the advantages were smaller as the disadvantages. There was a lot of money involved as well. I found out I was better off with simple proven methods from the 80's and 90's completed with new knowledge from today. In case you think I'm an old man rusted in his old way's I can tell you I'm not,....I'm 37 and like I wrote,...I tried and stepped back from it.

Back to your UV systems. I work in a rest home and a hospital. Tap water does contain small amounts of bacteria and among them legionella bacteria (can couse deathly pneumonia). To prevent bacteria in the water system a company installed 1 UV sterilizers in line. They calculated the maximum flow and delivered a scientific certificate that this system should kill 99,99% of the bacteria. The water system was flushed for 20 minutes with water of 80C and added chemicals witch kills all bacteria. The new UV sterilizers should prevent new bacteria to come into the system. Since then we had to flush numerous times with 80C water to kill bacteria becouse they still were able to gain rapidly in numbers and exceed the prescribed maximum numbers. The reason for that is water temperatures that are to high in water pipes underneath the floors. They did not solved that problem. Only one is needed to create huge numbers when circumstances are right for growth of numbers.

All opinion and personal expirienses and below the facts again.
- only work at low flow rate or high power (Watt)
- dirt built up in the sterilizer reduces UV light making it useless
- if properly used it will kill most micro organisms running through the system but won't have any effect in the tank it selves
- it does not take away the couse
- UV lights need to be replaced at least every year

No opinion in that and info looked up that is provided by the manufacturer of professional UV sterilizers and info looked up from scientific articles.

To me it makes no diference if you buy a UV sterilizer or not and it is up to you if you decide to switch out the lamp for one with a lower power or to wear sunglasses. ;)

[Yashua]

Listen I don't sell them but am a guy that likes all information... All yours tipped toward the bad side and I can see why. I am sorry that your experience with uv was tainted by inability to handle YOUR main problem, but that doesn't make all situations equall! I have a friend who is using uv very successfully... I just wanted to do it with discus as his tank has none( I know they are picky) as far as cost 200 - 300$ isn't much when you spend that easily on a big filter. Quality is a huge factor as well , just because a company hands you a paper and says it will kill practically all is flat out lying... In my experience these type of systems are put in as a preventative not a kill all system... It's full-hearty to believe otherwise.
So in conclusion... You still have to check your water and just like a filter you have to maintenance the thing ( imagine that)
P.S. I know you think it's my lights but I had no problems for months with crystal clear water... My bloom only occurred after I put in new rock ( even though I washed it till clear I must not have done a good job) at per request I did 80% wc daily for over a week and the bloom wouldn't go away... My phos was way to high... I went to the store and purchased algaefix and 1 capful later the tank is back to it's beautiful self and my discus couldn't look happier. I tell you this because old conventional ways say wc...wc...wc... Which I happen to believe in ( which is why I was doing it) and all it needed was a cap full of 2010 and all was well. In no way am I supporting or saying go buy chemicals but it sounds like your so closed minded from your failures that your not willing to look at the bigger picture... Everyones situation is different your failure could lead to my success... Oh and no need for sunglasses as my lights aren't really bright and since day one of this tank I have never had any growing algae to speak of.

[Dutch dude]

P.S. I know you think it's my lights but I had no problems for months with crystal clear water... My bloom only occurred after I put in new rock ( even though I washed it till clear I must not have done a good job)

A little late for this important info don't you think? Any way,....It sounds like you will go for the "easy" way buying equipment and chemicals. Thats your choice and I hope it solves your problems long term.

Good luck.

[Yashua]

In case you didn't notice I tried everything else and to no avail, but using that product did such a great job and was super easy to use I guess your right, the quickest route to a safe and happy solution for my discus is for me! I'm so happy with these results I believe I will properly use a uv and test the results for myself... That way I have accurate information.

[Discus master]

Listen I don't sell them but am a guy that likes all information... All yours tipped toward the bad side and I can see why. I am sorry that your experience with uv was tainted by inability to handle YOUR main problem, but that doesn't make all situations equall! I have a friend who is using uv very successfully... I just wanted to do it with discus as his tank has none( I know they are picky) as far as cost 200 - 300$ isn't much when you spend that easily on a big filter. Quality is a huge factor as well , just because a company hands you a paper and says it will kill practically all is flat out lying... In my experience these type of systems are put in as a preventative not a kill all system... It's full-hearty to believe otherwise.
So in conclusion... You still have to check your water and just like a filter you have to maintenance the thing ( imagine that)
P.S. I know you think it's my lights but I had no problems for months with crystal clear water... My bloom only occurred after I put in new rock ( even though I washed it till clear I must not have done a good job) at per request I did 80% wc daily for over a week and the bloom wouldn't go away... My phos was way to high... I went to the store and purchased algaefix and 1 capful later the tank is back to it's beautiful self and my discus couldn't look happier. I tell you this because old conventional ways say wc...wc...wc... Which I happen to believe in ( which is why I was doing it) and all it needed was a cap full of 2010 and all was well. In no way am I supporting or saying go buy chemicals but it sounds like your so closed minded from your failures that your not willing to look at the bigger picture... Everyones situation is different your failure could lead to my success... Oh and no need for sunglasses as my lights aren't really bright and since day one of this tank I have never had any growing algae to speak of.

Not to start anything at all but I actually have been seriously considering buying a UV my self I have a discus book by Baroons which sugests its use or an ozone but that needs to be ran thru carbon before it can go back to the tank ans diatom filters were mentioned as well, for me though the uv would be a good choice I was looking at the ones that fish place sell and my flow rate is 270 gph most of the models I looked at could handle this flow rate just fine, at faster flow rates it called it something else I can't remember now but I just wanted to use it as an extra step in filtration umm protection of my investment I guess to say you know? oh and I was looking at models in the 100 - 150$ range for my 55 gallon and flow rate it seems there are some at there for that price range replace a bulb once a year and some have a wiper blde thing you can just move in and out to clean the lens every so often seemed pretty low maintenance to me with everything else I do for my fish why not rite?

[Yashua]

I have realized I've been bantering here so I don't want to fire this thread up either but thanks for that support, I feel the same way about my fish... I do so much for them already what would this hurt...? I guess that was my ultimate question...if I use uv can or will it harm the discus.

[Dutch dude]

I realy hope you guy's seriously think and check the things I wrote before. If you still decide to go the route with the UV sterilizers I suggest to buy an over sized one,...build for a higher flow so the UV light is high enough to kill pathogens and organisms going through the UV light. Maintenance on keeping the UV bulb clean is very important.

Before you do Yashua I would take the rock out first and wait a couple of weeks to make sure the rock isn't the issue.

[jimg]

uv will not do what it is designed to do if there are any plants,filter material substrate etc.
I'm sure many people on this site wanted to or did buy uv lights and many other quick fix contraptions in the beginning.
But as I did I learned that the simpler things are the better the discus like it. Just keep them well fed and clean water.
And take all opinions on this site into consideration.Many have learned the hard way and they did take the time to try to help.
I've had aquariums since I was 12 and look forward to looking at others questions and answers everyday on here.

[Yashua]

Just wanted to let you guys see my lovely guys

[Yashua]

Here was another picture ( it's a bummer that you can only upload 1 pic from your phone)

[Discus master]

I have realized I've been bantering here so I don't want to fire this thread up either but thanks for that support, I feel the same way about my fish... I do so much for them already what would this hurt...? I guess that was my ultimate question...if I use uv can or will it harm the discus.

I would not think it would be harmul in anyway its not like adding chemicals or changing the water chemistry in anyway if anything all signs would point to an increase in water quilty there are studies and scientific data some where that shows the benefits of these devices other wise they would not be in use or for sale people would not buy them. My Barrons book on discus published in 05 which is a pretty recent publication as far as discus books are concerned says that it messes up the DNA make up of these free floating parasites or wahtever and in effect kills them if the flow is to fast then it becomes a clarifier and not a sterilizer not sure of the difenrce but reading about them at that fish place there description say that say t 500gph its a sterilizer and anything above that its a clarifer so to me that would say even if the flow is to fast there still a potential benefit to be had but I would just go with the one that is rated to hndle my flow of filter just like you wuld when buying a submersible pump or something like that. So I would say in the long rung that it could only help things and not hurt them heck for 150$ if i brings litter more than peace of mind to me thats worth it but I have a feling it will do much more its just another step in the filtration process kind of like a pre filter sponge. make sense to you?

[Discus master]

I realy hope you guy's seriously think and check the things I wrote before. If you still decide to go the route with the UV sterilizers I suggest to buy an over sized one,...build for a higher flow so the UV light is high enough to kill pathogens and organisms going through the UV light. Maintenance on keeping the UV bulb clean is very important.

Before you do Yashua I would take the rock out first and wait a couple of weeks to make sure the rock isn't the issue.

Well I know we would have to make sure it is rated for our filter flows just like you wuld when buying a submersible pump for say a wet dry trickel filter or power head. I know my filter is rated for 270gph and thats at max eficency I am sure its not actually putting that out but it may be plus I have the abilty to slow that down if need be, but the UV sterilizers I have been looking at are rated for well above this flow I may want to up date my filtration some day with a stronger large filter or buy a new larger tank so I do not only want my investment to be relivant for my current set up but to be able to work well with an up graded set up so I do not have to buy new equipmnet if I up grade to a larger tank. Like my canister filter for example I went with one able to handle up to a 100 allon tank whne I knew I was only buying a 55 gallon so I basically doubled the filtration capa bilites rite there. I ran that filter on a stocked 30 gallon for 2 months to seed it so when I set my 55 gallon up I would not have to wait to stock it, plus I used 15 gallons from my established 30 gallon and about 10 gallons from my established 15 gallon to fill the tank so it already had 25 gallons of well established waetr plus a aged filter to begin with and both tanks I know where and have been clean for months before I did this so I did not have to worry about cross contamination. Point being I think ahead I am sure most of us try to other wise we probaly would not be to sucesful with discus or tropical fish to begin with after all this is our hobby our passion we should be pretty good at it or at least learn how to be I am always trying to think of things to be more efficent and better at what I do for both my personal gain ie lowering running costs while not sacerficing my fishs qulity of life in fact I try to come up with ways to increase their qulity of life.

[Discus master]

Here was another picture ( it's a bummer that you can only upload 1 pic from your phone)

I do remeber reading in one of your earlier posts about how you added new rock that it was cleaned and so foth well you may have introduced something there I know certain meatals are not good for dicus like marble Iron ore and some other rocks are not good they will raise levels of cerain thing not sure what exactly bu its not good like calcium not good there was a simple viniger test I read about something like put a small amount of vinigar on the rock or whatever and if it fizzes it not good to use something like thta I read about so yeah you may want ot look at that. if UV was not good to use I hope this is not the case because I think dentist use it on their tools for your mouth and so do some other medical places sterilize tools in it which is suppose to clean the tools making them safe to re use on another patient so there must be a benefit the uv must do sumthing or this would not be a common practice in the medcal filed I think the EPA would be all over it so there must be some sort of scientific data that says yes UV is good it will kill this and that and the other render the tools safe for re use. don't you agree?

[Discus master]

Here was another picture ( it's a bummer that you can only upload 1 pic from your phone)

Sure is pretty, how did you get the back ground to look like that what did you use? I like how light colored evrything is but with out it being to light to wash out the color of your discus I like that look I have a black water look with drift wood and tannis I am actually trying to get rid of I do not like the tea coloerd wood so much I m so use to clear water but I want a back round currently I have notnhing on the back side or the sides of my tank and I think it would make my discus feel more secure but I do not know what color to go with if i add a blue cilor the typical blue you see all the time I am afraid it will not look rite with the drift wood and the sand and the fake gree floating vines I have in the tank theres plentty of cover for them and the tank sits behind my couch so they have a little security but I just do not know what to do for a back round and do i use something on the sides as well? I was told by a breeder that you only need to have the sides covered if you have two tanks butted up against each other like you often see at the lfs or redders than to keep down the stress they over the sides other wise he said just the back is enough so what do you suggest I do and what did you do? mind I do not want something elaborate like you have just simple and nice but something that matches what I have going on now you know??

[Yashua]

I'm sorry for not responding I have been terribly busy with work being that it's heating up. Yea my dad built that background off of a piece of plywood angled to give depth... He colored it and added 3d figures to give life... It's a real simple project actually.. Just get some plywood and to make simpler don't angle the board( we did this so the extra light we have above hits the whole thing) and paint it and be creative... Remember silhouettes often give a better picture then trying to draw a fish... My dad got small rose petals and glued them to the wood and it worked perfect for a school of fish... But if your looking for something easier and quicker finding your background on line would prob be best bet, bigger selection but I beg you could make a small back... The trick to it is lighting... Give space between the board and the glass (don't smash it to the back of the tank) and buy a small strip light from home depot or lowes and you will be pleasantly surprised by the difference your background looks.

[Discus master]

I'm sorry for not responding I have been terribly busy with work being that it's heating up. Yea my dad built that background off of a piece of plywood angled to give depth... He colored it and added 3d figures to give life... It's a real simple project actually.. Just get some plywood and to make simpler don't angle the board( we did this so the extra light we have above hits the whole thing) and paint it and be creative... Remember silhouettes often give a better picture then trying to draw a fish... My dad got small rose petals and glued them to the wood and it worked perfect for a school of fish... But if your looking for something easier and quicker finding your background on line would prob be best bet, bigger selection but I beg you could make a small back... The trick to it is lighting... Give space between the board and the glass (don't smash it to the back of the tank) and buy a small strip light from home depot or lowes and you will be pleasantly surprised by the difference your background looks.

Yeah I would be looking fo something more simple and more natural so to say like not as sophistocated just a solid color of maybe a dark blue or something but it really does look cool just not the look for the bio typr I have going on.