Miniturize the discus?

[srusso]

I feel like it maybe a radical idea but has any breeder ever tried to? I know very little about genetics but if it could be done with dogs, why not discus? I just wanted to open the topic for conversation. I am liking that if successful someone could really make a lot of money! They could be very cute colorful fish that could be kept it higher numbers in smaller tanks. How could this be done?

Sorry ment to put this in the breeding section...

[mmorris]

Selective breeding I suppose. I always thought miniature discus would be cool too. Imagine what we could do with a TWENTY GALLON! :D

[Jennie]

would 2 stunted discus produce stunted fry


Selective breeding I suppose. I always thought miniature discus would be cool too. Imagine what we could do with a TWENTY GALLON! :D

[mmorris]

Stunted discus would have been to some degree larger but for some issue that retarded their growth. Their offspring would be expected to be larger than the stunted parents. Runts, on the other hand, are different. I usually find a couple of these in any batch of fry, which are, and ought to be, culled. Their genetics dictate a smaller size, unlike stunted discus. If one wanted to achieve a minature version of the discus, I suppose one would work with the runts, rather than the stunted.

[Jennie]

Martha, you should do some more experimenting!! And prob the only way to know if discus are runts or stunted is from the breeder themself, really?


Stunted discus would have been to some degree larger but for some issue that retarded their growth. Their offspring would be expected to be larger than the stunted parents. Runts, on the other hand, are different. I usually find a couple of these in any batch of fry, which are, and ought to be, culled. Their genetics dictate a smaller size, unlike stunted discus. If one wanted to achieve a minature version of the discus, I suppose one would work with the runts, rather than the stunted.

[Jennie]

and you can call them marthas minis!

[srusso]

I know it's a bit up stream in this forum... Lol people always longing for the 8" discus. But when Al showed me a little guy that was 6 months old not even 2 inches... it was very cute almost wanted to buy him... :D

[Jennie]

LOL, I have a bb panda that is either stunted or runted, not sure, just 2 1/2 inches and it must be 4 months or so by now. So dang cute, Gonna keep him, regardless. He's got a great shape and getting nice pattern, and fierce, let me tell you
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/album.php?albumid=263&pictureid=1969
his bars are gone now and he's bluer



I know it's a bit up stream in this forum... Lol people always longing for the 8" discus. But when Al showed me a little guy that was 6 months old not even 2 inches... it was very cute almost wanted to buy him... :D

[nc0gnet0]

LOL, should start a "show us your runt" thread. :D

[stanlee]

the closes i have experience with is the "bulldog" discus.
perhaps it would be appropriate to name them "bonzai" discus

in betta rearing, we already got "bonzai" crowntails, very nice and cute , but never win any competitions.
:D

[ockyra215]

Wow breeding runts? That is crazy talk. JMO:D

[Fons_van_der_Hart]

and you can call them marthas minis!

I would suggest Marthas Retards

[Don Trinko]

I thnik its an excelent idea. Miniture, not stunted. This would enable people who don't have room for big tanks to havea "school" of discus.
Think of how easy it would be to do WC, easy on the water bill also.
Don T.

[srusso]

If I could I would have started trying to breed them myself! I do really think that if done right which includes shape, color and getting a consistent full growth size. There is money to be made here...

[mmorris]

I would suggest Marthas Retards

Now now...physically "challanged" does not equate with mentally "challanged."

[Tito]

If it could be done - I think someone would have done it already.

Sounds like an interesting idea for sure.

[srusso]

I see a full grown mini would be about 1.5 - 2 inches. With coloration kept mostly proportional to what a full grown discus would present... really all other ideal features... How many generations do you think it would take?

[DiscusKev]

Possible 4 generations to stablize the genes.

[Disgirl]

I think a small, 2" or less, discus that is beautifully colored and shaped would be a wonderful thing! What a great idea! Maybe someone can someday! Think how many we could put in a 40 gal tank!
Barb:)

[Jennie]

I'd really be in trouble then! I'm already planning my next order from kenny.



I think a small, 2" or less, discus that is beautifully colored and shaped would be a wonderful thing! What a great idea! Maybe someone can someday! Think how many we could put in a 40 gal tank!
Barb:)

[rickztahone]

see the problem would lie with breeders with no morals. if there was actually miniture discus out there that someone actually took the time to make by selective breeding, another breeder trying to make a buck will just sell off all his "colorful miniature discus" which would be stunted discus. noobs would easily be fooled and we would have a lot of "are these ACTUALLY miniature discus?" threads here by noobs. JMO

[nc0gnet0]

s
ee the problem would lie with breeders with no morals. if there was actually miniture discus out there that someone actually took the time to make by selective breeding, another breeder trying to make a buck will just sell off all his "colorful miniature discus" which would be stunted discus. noobs would easily be fooled and we would have a lot of "are these ACTUALLY miniature discus?" threads here by noobs. JMO

True, but don't they already do that and sell them as juvies? Caveat Emptor

[srusso]

s

True, but don't they already do that and sell them as juvies? Caveat Emptor

Ooh burn! Hahaha

[mmorris]

see the problem would lie with breeders with no morals. if there was actually miniture discus out there that someone actually took the time to make by selective breeding, another breeder trying to make a buck will just sell off all his "colorful miniature discus" which would be stunted discus. noobs would easily be fooled and we would have a lot of "are these ACTUALLY miniature discus?" threads here by noobs. JMO

So true! Also, the miniature breeders might sell off the ones that are a bit too large to be true miniatures as normal discus!

[rickztahone]

s

True, but don't they already do that and sell them as juvies? Caveat Emptor

got me there :rolleyes2:

[Disgirl]

Ok, I guess it isn't such a good idea after all!
Barb:D

[vera]

Now now...physically "challanged" does not equate with mentally "challanged."
LOL
all runts i had were the perfect round and great patterns ,great idea on trying to breed these pygmies :)

[srusso]

It's not a bad idea just b/c there are @#@#$#@ in the world. No matter how you sell the fish, someone will try to rip you off! It's just a fact of life! I hope to one day do this myself, maybe when I am old, gray and retired... Or maybe when my wife gives in to my begging. That said I will just toy with the idea until I can make it a reality! Lol

[Willie]

Runts are different than minatures. They usually have some deformities, although not all are visible. I try to cull heavily, but there's usually one runt in every batch that I can't catch. I've never had one that lived to maturity. They usually die around 6 months. That's why I've never had any issues with culling them.

Willie

[nc0gnet0]

Interesting, my runt/mini is 9 months old, eats like a pig and appears to be very healthy....... all 2.5 inches of him.

[jimg]

I have a golden runt over 3 years old too

[snowflake311]

Miniture discus could be done no problem. They breed these Bulldogs and high body discus they could breed for size. BUT most people are looking for BIG flashy fish. So breeders have been working on getting the biggest fish they can. If someone wanted to they could make these mini fish happen by selective breeding maybe cross breed to the Heckels because they tend to be smaller.

If they can make these Tea Cup Yorkie I think Tea cup discus could happen but it would take time.

[Eddie]

Miniture discus could be done no problem. They breed these Bulldogs and high body discus they could breed for size. BUT most people are looking for BIG flashy fish. So breeders have been working on getting the biggest fish they can. If someone wanted to they could make these mini fish happen by selective breeding maybe cross breed to the Heckels because they tend to be smaller.

If they can make these Tea Cup Yorkie I think Tea cup discus could happen but it would take time.


You don't even have to do that. I gave some culls to my wife about 6 months ago. She threw them in a 1.5 gallon tank, once a week water change, 1 gold fish and 1 tetra. These fish are 6 months old and 1 inch in length. I cannot even believe they are still alive. I dont even know if she feeds them. :o

[mikel]

Why would anyone want to spend the effort on making discus smaller, when we are hauling water changes everyday to create the perfect condition for juvies to stay healthy, eat lots and grow HUGE???? It's really strange to me. What want stunted tiny little fish with big eyes? :confused: mike

[Eddie]

Why would anyone want to spend the effort on making discus smaller, when we are hauling water changes everyday to create the perfect condition for juvies to stay healthy, eat lots and grow HUGE???? It's really strange to me. What want stunted tiny little fish with big eyes? :confused: mike


I agree Mike, much of the beauty in discus comes from their size IMO. Obviously there are some HUGE fish and to me, those are not as nice as the 6-7" fish. ;)

[dpt8]

I vote for HUGE size in discus !!!

[mathao]

send me your runts,not stunted ones and i'll problably have some minni discus for sale in four years. i have two red turq's runts that i plan on breeding if they turn out to be a male and female.

[Altum Nut]

My opinion on this topic.

It appears that someone came up with this idea when they got fed up with excessive continuous water changes / heavy feedings and what else would be required to produce large quality discus.
The runt version keeper is basically lacking all the above.
Remember everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

...Ralph

[mathao]

My opinion on this topic.

It appears that someone came up with this idea when they got fed up with excessive continuous water changes / heavy feedings and what else would be required to produce large quality discus.
The runt version keeper is basically lacking all the above.
Remember everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

...Ralph

i think what you mean is stunted discus, runts are small ones that look every bit like the large ones but don't grow no more then 3 inches, even if you do heavy water changes and feed 8 or more times a day.:D

[Kampi]

I'd love to have miniature discus. Someone should make the effort. I have a small fish aquarium with 125 G and do weekly water changes.

[Eddie]

I'd love to have miniature discus. Someone should make the effort. I have a small fish aquarium with 125 G and do weekly water changes.

Its easy, keep them in a small 5 gallon tank their whole life and rarely change the water. The wife has a bunch of culls she kept in that manner and they are a year old and the size of a nickel. LOL

[mikel]

Seriously?

[Saxthom]

My opinion on this topic.

It appears that someone came up with this idea when they got fed up with excessive continuous water changes / heavy feedings and what else would be required to produce large quality discus.
The runt version keeper is basically lacking all the above.
Remember everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

...Ralph

I think it sounds more like someone that came up with this idea wants lots of pretty fish but probably lives in an apartment and cannot have a bunch of huge tanks. Sounds reasonable to me. Honestly to each his own, I know I like the bigger flashy fish but I don't have the space I wish I did to accommodate that many more. On the other hand, my girlfriend would love the idea of the mini fish and if that became a real thing I'm sure I would end up with a handful of them.

[Willie]

I raised a number of bulldog Blue Diamonds recently. Lots of water changes in a 125 gallon tank, heavy feeding, the works. A year later, I have some spectacular looking, but tiny, discus. It's not what I wanted, but I can see keeping this type of discus if space was a constraint.

Willie

[moon_knight1971]

I raised a number of bulldog Blue Diamonds recently. Lots of water changes in a 125 gallon tank, heavy feeding, the works. A year later, I have some spectacular looking, but tiny, discus. It's not what I wanted, but I can see keeping this type of discus if space was a constraint.

Willie

Pics please....