First spawn

[Sivasama]

I finally moved my first young pair from the community tank to a 29 gallon breeding tank. 2 days later and I had eggs. I had a pretty good batch of eggs with about 10% of the eggs turning white after a day and a half. Sounds good but the female isn't the best at removing the bad eggs and tends to take 4 or 5 good eggs with the bad 1. So today I have 12 wigglers. Not bad for the first attempt I guess. They spawned in the community tank a lot but it was too hard of water and the eggs would never hatch.

I had one question for the group. I am mixing ro and tap. My big tank I add the ro and then add the aged tap. Is this okay in the breeder tank? Is this method okay for fry? Or should I mix the water in another container before adding?

[mmorris]

Congrats on the fry! I'd mix the water in a separate container first.

[Sivasama]

Great more storage,heat and circulation:)

[mmorris]

:laugh:

[Sivasama]

Day 7 still have 12 wigglers. I'm calling them the dirty dozen. I bought another Brute 44 container to mix my water before using it for water changes. I also decided to run plumbing to my tank. I expect to move a second pair soon. So I will run plumbing to that tank and a 55 gallon grow out tank. Imjust doing a fill line. Anyting to speed up the process will help. The biggest problem I find is controlling the fill speed. I will have a valve in the top of the brute container that I can open and close to adjust the speed or pressure in the fill line. Hope it works. I'll try putting it together today.

[mmorris]

Fingers crossed they make it!

[Keith Perkins]

Fingers crossed they make it!

+1

Keep a close eye on the parents, if they start showing signs of spawning again the dirty dozen could quickly become the disappearing dozen. It's not uncommon for parents to spawn again with such a small batch of fry and the first batch almost always gets eaten in this scenario. Just what you want to hear, first another water reservoir then another tank.

[Sivasama]

+1

Keep a close eye on the parents, if they start showing signs of spawning again the dirty dozen could quickly become the disappearing dozen. It's not uncommon for parents to spawn again with such a small batch of fry and the first batch almost always gets eaten in this scenario. Just what you want to hear, first another water reservoir then another tank.

No biggy I consider these a learning experience. If they make it to removal that will be a learning experience for me. I doubt I will get them to grow out stage with my lack of experience but I will give it my all.got the water fill system about half together today. All set after I get all the PVC glued and secured. Might get more done this evening when jr goes to bed. Should have free swimmers over night or early tomorrow. Then we will see if they attach. One of the parents is white with scribbles. Hope they can find him.

[Sivasama]

Free swimmers now. Fry aren't really latching on yet. I didn't think they would have trouble finding the red pigeon but maybe they don't get it at first. I dropped the water to half to encourage the fry. I guess we will see soon if they are going to take. Regaurdless, it is very exciting to see.

One question I have is about lites. I have tan paint on 3 sides and a glass lid with a regular fluorescent aquarium light. Do I need to leave it on all the time or is it okay to turn it off and leave a room light on? Or, is it better to just have a room light on?

[mmorris]

A room light should be fine.

[Keith Perkins]

A room light should be fine.

+1 again


+1

Keep a close eye on the parents, if they start showing signs of spawning again the dirty dozen could quickly become the disappearing dozen. It's not uncommon for parents to spawn again with such a small batch of fry and the first batch almost always gets eaten in this scenario. Just what you want to hear, first another water reservoir then another tank.

Sorry, when I said this I thought they were already free swimming and attached. I've never had true wrigglers that were 7 days old.

[Sivasama]

+1 again



Sorry, when I said this I thought they were already free swimming and attached. I've never had true wrigglers that were 7 days old.


Me either.....I must have typed that wrong or lost track of days. More like 4 or 5 days to swim.

Update this morning. The dirty dozen is attached. They must have figured it out over night. It will be neat to watch them grow. They should have plenty of room.:). All is well so far. Guess I better order the bbs.

[mmorris]

Great news!

[Keith Perkins]

Me either.....I must have typed that wrong or lost track of days. More like 4 or 5 days to swim.

Update this morning. The dirty dozen is attached. They must have figured it out over night. It will be neat to watch them grow. They should have plenty of room.:). All is well so far. Guess I better order the bbs.

Poor typing, now THAT I can understand. :D Good luck with them, it's soooooo fun when it goes right.

[Sivasama]

Well,got home tonight and have 7 or 8 that I can see. Ate dinner and got the kid to bed and then did a water change on the tank.....took a shower and they are laying eggs again. Looks like they don't care if the kids watch.:). The little guys are riding piggy back. Too funny. Have to see if they do better with this batch.

[deepflyball]

Some questions . What is the water hardness in your breader tank. And in the first spawn was there just not many eggs or why so few wigglers?? The reason i ask is because it sounds like your water hardness is still to hard. Also after you have wigglers why are you still adding Ro water?? They would do better in tap water . You only need RO water for ph and hardness control. Young guys like hard water and us old guys like soft water LOL

Jerry

[deepflyball]

Also if you pair feels the fry are a thret to the new eggs/fry they will kill them.
Jerry

[Sivasama]

The eggs were pretty good in the first batch. I had about 10% white eggs. The mother just isn't very good at picking out the white eggs and usually gets more good eggs then bad. I think she will get better at it with time. If not I will have to use a screen. Water was around 75 TDS on the first spawn. Father missed a few eggs on this spawn when fertilizing. I wasn't home when most of the eggs were eaten so I don't know for sure. They just seem very gentle and have good instincts.

Eggs look great this morning and so do the remaining kids. I would expect them to eat them soon but who knows? I went to a room light and the babies seem to be staying on the parents now. Might have learned something there.

[Sivasama]

Got home from work today and I still have all my babies and the eggs look great. No fungus so far. They really took their sweet time spawning last night. Not a big female so the clutch was medium sized. If I don't get many white eggs and mom is more careful I should have a good size batch. I'll keep updating and try to take some pics.

[Keith Perkins]

Also if you pair feels the fry are a thret to the new eggs/fry they will kill them.
Jerry

+1 Odds are the first batch will get eaten at some point before too long.

[Sivasama]

Still got 8 kids and only about two dozen eggs that should be wigglers in a few hours. I don't know why most of the eggs get eaten on the second day? I guesss this will be twice as many as last week so maybe I should say they are getting better at it. I just wish I could be home to see what's going on with them.

[mmorris]

You'll be up to your eye-balls in fry before you know it.:)

[Sivasama]

You'll be up to your eye-balls in fry before you know it.:)

Maybe not..... Got up to go to work and the eggs are gone. The pair looks like they are having a little tiff. I think dad is in love with the act of spawning but not the raising. The kids are still there. Kind of a disappointment. I may have to try a screen over the next batch of eggs.

[Keith Perkins]

On the other hand maybe she'll quit spawning and take care of the ones she has for a while.

[judy]

that is great! will be fun to watch hatch!!

[Sivasama]

Yeah I guess they figured 8 is enough. Kids are still there and really growing. Really amazing. I will be getting bbs eggs Saturday or Monday. I'll make sure they eat them before I move them. Probably move them at the end of next week. If they make it. Dad seams pretty irritable. Hope to finish my water feed lines this weekend.

[Sivasama]

Peace in the tank once again. Parents have stopped fighting and are back to raising the kids. Wishing I could leave them with the parents forever. My work is yet to come. Going to finish running PVC tomorrow and set up my brine hatchery. Still 8 kids. At was cool seeing the fry next to the eggs so I could compare them in size. Simply amazing how fast they grow.

[Sivasama]

All kids are doing well. Might have gill flukes though...... Not sure. Saw one fry darting and flashing. I hope not. Got the water fill system running last night. It worked pretty well with a couple of things that need adjusted. It's nice to fill while working on another tank. I need to buy a pump today since adding the mix water tank. I have pipe running from the ro storage to the mix tank and gravity feed to the mix tank from tap storage. Once I figure out the ratio of tap to ro in this size container my water changes will be quicker and the water will be spot on. We sure go to extremes for these fish don't we.:)

[Sivasama]

Got my brine shrimp hatchery up and running last night. Still have 8 fish. My plumbing is working out great. All,s well! If the brine shrimp hatching goes well I will be moving fry this weekend. I think dad is ready to spawn again.

[David Rose]

Good to see things are progressing....best of luck! :p

[PC1]

great play by play. I am looking forward to updates. Any pics possible?

[Sivasama]

great play by play. I am looking forward to updates. Any pics possible?

Yeah, I will take some pics and try to get them up this weekend. I have been so busy with my water change set up that I haven't had time for much else.....plus the kid keeps me very busy.

Might have some bbs tonight to feed...if not for sure in the morning.

[Sivasama]

Good to see things are progressing....best of luck! :p

Thanks, can't wait to use one of the fish feeders I got from you!

[Sivasama]

Well, the brine shrimp hatched so I decided to try a bit and see if the kids would eat. Gulp! Yeah they ate. They have orange bellies. I should have started this sooner but the parents show no stress from just 8 kids feeding on them. I will make sure my brine shrimp rotation is good before I move them. It is going to be tough feeding just 8 fry. That is a small amount. Water changes have been easy though. I just checked the dates and this is day 15. I made a spreadsheet to keep a timeline of events on the pair and the fry. Might be valuable info for the future.

[Sivasama]

Well, still going well. I have a brineshrmp hatching rotation going and the kids seem to like it. They are really growing fast. I have one that is a bit smaller and may have a bad fine.....can't tell yet. It may end up being the magnificent 7 in the end. I set up another tank today and just want to make sure the heater stays at temp over night before I move them. I'm a little worried about the move. The tank won't have an established sponge filter so I will have to be careful. Should be okay with daily water changes. It's hard feeding just 8 fish. You can overfeed easy and that can make the ammonia climb fast. It's the only way I can continue. I can't seed a sponge filter that quickly. I have an extra in my community tank but I don't want to chance flukes getting introduced. I tried taking pics last night but I'm not using much light and they look pretty dim. I might light it before I move them so I have a memory of the first batch. Still loving it.

[Sivasama]

Okay, lets see if I can get a couple pics in here. My camera is not willing to auto focus up close so this is the best I can do for now. It's an old Sony Cybershot. http://www.wefishiowa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DSC01693-e1282013250150.jpg

Here's both parents....I think they are camera shy.
http://www.wefishiowa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/DSC01694-e1282013293526.jpg

The fry are eating away at brine shrimp and some Arctic Copepods. These are said to have around 60% protein. They don't eat them as well as live brine but what can you do? I can't sit at home all day...gotta pay the bills. I ordered some Golden Pearls just to see what they like better. I think if there were more fry they would eat anything that floated by them. They are around dime size today in length. They are 3 weeks and a day old I believe and I plan on moving the 8 to another tank this weekend. I have an auto feeder ready to go so they should get more feedings. I plan on trying some shaved beefheart this weekend as well. Hope they go for it.

[Sivasama]

Been a while since I posted. The fry have been in a 20 gallon tank for about 2 weeks now. They are growing well. They are still eating live bbs. I have also been able to get them to eat slivers of frozen beef heart and blood worms. I tried golden pearls but they didn't really go for it. I worried about fouling the water so quit feeding it. It has been smooth sailing up to yesterday. I made a mistake in thinking that daily water changes without an established sponge would be enough. I also wasn't watching ammonia like I should have been. Iwasntbeing lazy, just pressed for time. I started noting some stress with breathing. I did the test and had 1 to .75 ammonia readings. Not good. I did
2 water changes and got it back down.....but it came back. So, I took a mature sponge out of my community tank and moved it to the 20 gallon tank and stacked it on the other filter. I will test again this afternoon and see if everything is back in check. I didn't want to put this sponge in with the fry as I had gill flukes in the community tank a while back but ammonia can be deadly. I will have to watch the gills close over the next few weeks.

The fry are developing some nice shape. I took some pics and will post them soon.