A full report of the unsuccess breeding

[bach]

Hi, my 2 breeding pairs (2 female red, 2 blue male)have 6 times spawned and always got the white eggs after 24/48 hours. I did the exactly water condition as the advanced form members, also I bought "The secret book of 60 days blue print"(E-book). I have a R.O filter unit (counter top portable 5 stage with D.I. unit), I have invested to got the API test kits for Gh/Kh/Nitric/Nitrat/pH/Ammonia. The breeding water as below:
GH=5; KH=1; Nitric=0; Nitrat=0.2; Ammonia=1; pH=6.1; Temp=30 C. Food=Live black worm.
2 pairs breeding weekly(after water changed with premixed 6.1pH). Have been filmed, witnessed to watched spawning time to confirm male and female action. The 2 couples switch over to look after eggs in 48 hours, and ate the eggs after this time because eggs turned to white. I have a TDS tester(got it from the internet). The only thing I didn't understand is the amount of ppm were very high from the feed water/water after pass R.O unit. It was 470ppm in feed water, 385ppm after pass the R.O filter.
The default calibration request from manufacture is 1382ppm, all other TDS testers from almost manufactures is 384ppm only. So the only thing i did not sure was the TDS of my breeding water. I knew the TDS for breeding is under 70ppm. I tested my TDS with the demineral water is 0. now I have ordered HM Digital DTS4TM for testing my water. As a very detail report above, you know I'm very confused and how dissappointed, sometime I thought 4 of them were female all? But I saw the action of fertilised from my 2 blue dishes, how can I got the mistake. This report is transfer to all of members for asking a suggest or helping in this case. Best Regards

[Eddie]

Several things can be the culprit.

Males are young/old
Too much flow in the tanks (milt not getting on the eggs)
Your TDS is high for RO water, doesn't make sense

Also, I'd bring the temp down to 82F just because.

Eddie

[Rex82]

how come there is ammonia? there shouldn't be any

[bach]

Dear Eddie, thanks for your reply. I'm not sure about 2 male, I got them from a friend. They were over 16 month . I will confirm their age with my friend.
When they spawned, I just used a stone air, adjusted with low air level.
About TDS tool, most of people gave the advised just 50-70ppm. So the only thing I didn't know is how many ppm in my water, that why I didn't report about the ppm level .

[Ed13]

Far from an expert but,
Ammonia=1
TDS= 385
Doesn't sound right

If your TDS meter is reading right, something is wrong with your RO membrane and you may need to replace it and install it properly. Maybe you should get new calibration solutions and check it again or maybe a LFS or friend has another model and can check your water for you

[bach]

Thanks for your advised, I will do and report back to the forum soon.

[Keith Perkins]

+1 on the calibration solution. It can't do anything but help you determine what's going on. I too wondered about your ammonia number, you normally should be seeing 0 in a mature cycled tank. The TDS meter will help too, hopefully once you get these things things will get sorted out.

[deepflyball]

What is your water hardness???
Jerry

[deepflyball]

Your premixing your water for water changes??? Why??? I use tap water in all my tanks. When the pair startes there cleaning I start adding my RO water for the water removed during water changes. They (if proven) will normaly lay every 5 to 10 days. Once your fish do it a couple times you know when they will lay. Got 7 pairs and they are like clockwork. So i start adding ro water in just before they spawn and taking it out when the eggs hatch threw water changes When adding your RO water and if your going below nutral 7.0 ph go slow or you can burn them. Its the water hardness you need to work on. My fish spawn in wide ranges of ph 7.6-7.2 if the water hardness is right 75-60 ppm you will get done.
Jerry

[deepflyball]

I also think Eddis right on. For some reason blue fish take longer (blue diamonds) ITs like your trying to hard.
Jerry

[Rob Blanks]

I have a TDS tester(got it from the internet). The only thing I didn't understand is the amount of ppm were very high from the feed water/water after pass R.O unit. It was 470ppm in feed water, 385ppm after pass the R.O filter.


If you calibrated the TDS tester right, something is wrong with your RO membrane and it should be replaced. The worst of them should have a 90% rejection rate, meaning your TDS should read from the 30s to max lower 40s. The better Filmtec ones have a 98% rejection rate. If you then run the RO water through the DI resin you should have zero TDS. Maybe 1.

Edit to add: If your feed water is really that high I would guess your membrane is shot. The manufacturers' stated lifespan is 2 to 3 years, but if the feedwater contains high concentrations of materials that tend to foul a membrane, the life expectancy will be shorter. I know reefkeepers who replace every 6 months (yeah, yikes).

[Tito]

You're trying to hard. Playing with two many things.

I dechlorinate my tap - put it in the tank. SInce I've kept Discus where I live at in Perth Amboy I have had countless spawns.

I'm just starting to actually try to raise fry. So far so good. I have no idea what my water parameters are.

[mmorris]

You say your two breeding pairs have spawned six times. Does that mean each pair spawned six times, or three times each? I'm a bit surprised that both of your pairs have spawned exactly the same number of times but I suppose it's not that unlikely. If they spawned three times each, you need to check your tds but they may just be young and needing more time. If both pairs have spawned six times each, they are not eating possibly fertile eggs and you have definately seen the males make passes, then I would have expected to see at least one fry by now. Therefore, 1) the males are females, although I didn't think females make passes 2) The males are infertile, whether because of age or because, well, they are! 3) Your tds is too high. That's all I can think of offhand.

[bach]

Dear Jerry! Thanks for your advised. The reason I premixed the R.O. water just because I want to maintain a 6.5pH level. I have been used all R.O water not tape water. What you mean tape water? with or by pass the twin sediment/post filters? I will do the same like you for the next spawn. the water I got after filtered was measured at 7.1pH, so I start to used the pH low buffer to made pH down before the fish start to clean the cone, as your advised is just get it down slowly step by step but the time was not enough. When I saw fish start to clean the cone, that mean that night or maximum is tommorrow night they will be performing another spawn. Do your fish spawn at high pH level at 7.0 or 7.6? Also I would like to tell you that 2 night ago, I came home after work i have changed the plant pot (for the bigger one)ready before the fish spawn. I took the pot out and go around to get the bigger one(about 3 or 4 minute). Before I place the bigger one into the 1st tank, I want to put the smaller one into the 2nd tank, I found eggs on the spot, they already did that but I didn't see because the color of the eggs and the pot just look the same. I placed back to the tank. Today after 48 hours, all eggs one by one start to dry and laying down to the base tank and yummy..fish ate all(daddy).
Hope next week I will show the good news to you and all members. Have good weekend. Regards.

[bach]

Thanks Rob, I will measure water again when the new TDS meter comming. Regards.

[bach]

Dear Rob, finally I found what I did wrong. I block the waste line and just used the line end of my R.O. only. As this methos I always got 380-420ppm quality. Now I unblocked the waste line and the end of system I got 010ppm. Thanks god! I hope I will have a good news on next week to report to all supported members. Thanks for your help.