I'm so screwed.

[Jennie]

I'm trying to understand how ph,gh and kh work together and their importance in discus tanks but everything is so flippin scientific. How do I know if I am providing the best poss. water conditions for my fish? Is there a writeup on this for dummies?

[boxters]

Let's keep it simple. Kh and ph are related. As kh rises so does ph. Reason kh is carbonate hardness which is alkaline. All you need focus on is gh and ph. Discus like soft water, therefore a low gh. The lower the gh the more unstable your ph thus a kh of say 3 will keep water soft and make ph easier to maintain

[DiscusOnly]

I'm trying to understand how ph,gh and kh work together and their importance in discus tanks but everything is so flippin scientific. How do I know if I am providing the best poss. water conditions for my fish? Is there a writeup on this for dummies?

Here is one write-up but I am sure there are plenty more out there.

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html


I personally feel that one should try to stay away from altering your water too much unless it's absolutely necessary.

How do you know you are providing the best possible water conditions? You discus health and grow will tell you that. Unfortunately that takes patience. I see so many people getting into discus and don't have the patience for it. Do enough background research on discus, get quality discus and sit back an enjoy. You see so many beautiful pictures of discus on this site from members (probably the best out there on the Internet) but please understand that a lot of these folks are in it for the long haul (it didn't happen overnight).

Please note that this is not directed torward you but I just see so many people trying to make things more complicated then it needs to be.

Just sit back and enjoy your discus.

Van

[Jennie]

So if my ph remains stable is it safe to say I'm in the clear and shouldn't have to worry about killing my fish?


Let's keep it simple. Kh and ph are related. As kh rises so does ph. Reason kh is carbonate hardness which is alkaline. All you need focus on is gh and ph. Discus like soft water, therefore a low gh. The lower the gh the more unstable your ph thus a kh of say 3 will keep water soft and make ph easier to maintain

[Jennie]

I like your answer but there always seem to be problems with ph and gh, etc... crashes and want to avoid all that. which is why I thought I'd better learn more, except it's confusing.


Here is one write-up but I am sure there are plenty more out there.

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html


I personally feel that one should try to stay away from altering your water too much unless it's absolutely necessary.

How do you know you are providing the best possible water conditions? You discus health and grow will tell you that. Unfortunately that takes patience. I see so many people getting into discus and don't have the patience for it. Do enough background research on discus, get quality discus and sit back an enjoy. You see so many beautiful pictures of discus on this site from members (probably the best out there on the Internet) but please understand that a lot of these folks are in it for the long haul (it didn't happen overnight).

Please note that this is not directed torward you but I just see so many people trying to make things more complicated then it needs to be.

Just sit back and enjoy your discus.

Van

[boxters]

If you have a kh of at least 3 your ph will not crash but will have a natural swing. Discus can live in ph of 4.5 to 8 pretty happily. Your ph should fall a little between water changes

[Jennie]

Thank you everyone!

[Tito]

Thank you everyone!

Honestly - I threw my gh, kh and all those other kits away years ago.

any fish that has died in my care is because I did something stupid like introduce a sick fish into the tank, or overfed the fish or something silly like that. Of course I'm speaking of all the kinds of fish that I have kept.

However - when I stick to the rules - clean water, quarantine, proper feeding things most always work out well.

My Discus spawn and bring fry - I still don't know what my TDS, KH, GH, are and I have an idea of my pH because I checked what comes out of my tap some years ago.

Oh, and every now and then I put my nose to the tank's surface to make sure the water smells fresh.

[Jennie]

I used to have a gh and kh test for my koi pond but I chucked it when mr blue heron started raiding the pond. My fish appear to be healthy and I haven't lost any discus since I bought my very first one but I'm always paranoid I will do something wrong.



Honestly - I threw my gh, kh and all those other kits away years ago.

any fish that has died in my care is because I did something stupid like introduce a sick fish into the tank, or overfed the fish or something silly like that. Of course I'm speaking of all the kinds of fish that I have kept.

However - when I stick to the rules - clean water, quarantine, proper feeding things most always work out well.

My Discus spawn and bring fry - I still don't know what my TDS, KH, GH, are and I have an idea of my pH because I checked what comes out of my tap some years ago.

Oh, and every now and then I put my nose to the tank's surface to make sure the water smells fresh.

[William Palumbo]

I am with Tito on this as well. Not exactly sure of my tap water PH is as well, have not checked it in many years. The only checking I do is with my breeding pairs, and that's just TDS.(because my new RO came with a free TDS meter) My PH, GH, KH?...who knows! Juvies do best in STABLE water. I have found the harder the better. Don't be too concerned about GH, KH ect, unless planning to breed. As said, keep it simple, it's more fun that way!...Bill

[LizStreithorst]

I met a guy in a Sushi place who had a deep understanding of water and how the various parameters relate to oneanother. Except for the basics it is way over my head. I was in awe of him. He said, "Yeah, I know water but there ain't no money in it." I guess there's no money in it because once you figure out what works for you, which most times comes down to whether or not you need RO for breeding, the deep knowledge doesn't matter.

[Disgirl]

Yes, I agree with Tito too! For about 10 years I denied myself discus simply because I thought they had to have soft, neutral water. And our new home had hard, alkaline water. People here convinced me that the fish would do fine in our new water. Absolutely correct! Now I don't even test my water. I do all my regular wc's, keep the tank very clean, warm and feed well...healthy, beautiful discus, raised from 1 1/2" youngsters.
Barb:D

[Jennie]

and Barb, so you are raising from breeding to fry to juvies with no issues. And would ph, gh have an effect on the growth rate of juvies.


Yes, I agree with Tito too! For about 10 years I denied myself discus simply because I thought they had to have soft, neutral water. And our new home had hard, alkaline water. People here convinced me that the fish would do fine in our new water. Absolutely correct! Now I don't even test my water. I do all my regular wc's, keep the tank very clean, warm and feed well...healthy, beautiful discus, raised from 1 1/2" youngsters.
Barb:D

[Disgirl]

and Barb, so you are raising from breeding to fry to juvies with no issues. And would ph, gh have an effect on the growth rate of juvies.

I got my 1 1/2" juvies from a breeder. I have been told that discus eggs need softer and lower ph than I have to be able to successfully spawn and produce fry. But once the fry are free swimming then they can be in the kind of water I have and do best in it for their growth. Eddie adds minerals to his soft water so the fry grow correctly!
Barb:)

[Jhhnn]

Domestic discus will live and grow happily in a fairly broad range of water parameters. Clean water, that is. Altering water chemistry is generally not necessary and definitely should not be allowed to interfere with water changes and detritus siphoning.

If you don't have test kits, these are widely used and generally accurate-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EUG8RO/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0038AZMZW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=17PJXZBAKRASD0Z1T5B4

On that Amazon page, you'll see that people often combine it with the API GH/KH testkit, a good idea.

If you use Prime water conditioner or similar, then you'll want this testkit for ammonia-

http://www.amazon.com/Seachem-Multitest-Ammonia-Test-Kit/dp/B001EUI4VM

Prime converts free ammonia to ammonium, which is much less harmful, but confuses ordinary ammonia test kits, which will give false high ammonia readings. The Seachem kit is the only one that I know of which can tell the difference between ammonia and ammonium.

Your water provider can tell you what you want to know wrt pH, sanitizing chemicals, hardness and so forth. If you have well water, the county agricultural agent will often test it for a small or no fee...

Don't be intimidated- it's really not that hard. The most important part is what happens to the water once it's in the tank- how bacteria create the nitrogen cycle, break down wastes... the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate relationship.

Get some numbers, post them here. It's unlikely that you really need to do much with your water other than check it and change it on a regular basis. You can handle it.

Edit- I'll agree that the importance of testing diminishes once your water parameters are understood and you've developed a routine. It's still a good idea to obtain a basic understanding of those parameters so you'll know what to expect, and to create a routine that fully accounts for them...

[Tito]

It's still a good idea to obtain a basic understanding of those parameters so you'll know what to expect, and to create a routine that fully accounts for them...

I think this is very important! Every hobbyist needs to know the basics of water parameters so that if something goes wrong you can at least now how to begin investigating.

[Jennie]

that is why I asked in part.
you guys were pretty helpful. especially that link. Now if you want to see confusing, go to api and try to get their interpretation!


I think this is very important! Every hobbyist needs to know the basics of water parameters so that if something goes wrong you can at least now how to begin investigating.

[LizStreithorst]

I know that the accepted wisdom is that young fish do better in water with a high gH. This has not been my experience. In the two places I have lived and bred Discus the gH has been 0. That doesn't mean that it's actaully 0 but that it's too low to measure. I never had problems with growth. The little Discus were like weeds! It's my belief that the fish get what they need from their food.

I know that Eddie believes otherwise. Perhaps his unmeasurable gH was less than my unmeasurable gH. Who knows? All I can say is that I have always been very successful growing baby Discus to a big size fast in my 0 gH water.

[Frankr409]

I know that the accepted wisdom is that young fish do better in water with a high gH. This has not been my experience. In the two places I have lived and bred Discus the gH has been 0. That doesn't mean that it's actaully 0 but that it's too low to measure. I never had problems with growth. The little Discus were like weeds! It's my belief that the fish get what they need from their food.

I know that Eddie believes otherwise. Perhaps his unmeasurable gH was less than my unmeasurable gH. Who knows? All I can say is that I have always been very successful growing baby Discus to a big size fast in my 0 gH water.

Same experience here, high quality food is the key.