View Full Version : Pimple
Discus-n00b
08-13-2010, 02:57 PM
I never like posting in this section, doubt any of us do. But sometimes its needed. I thought it'd be best to post so if someone else has this problem they can learn as well. Also, if anyone has any suggestions or has been through it before please feel free to post.
I didn't notice it until I was going to bed last night, and i'm PRETTY sure he didn't have it when I was feeding a few hours prior but I easily could of missed it. He was cleaning the cone mighty hard last night and might of hit it, but as I look back in the video I took of him cleaning the cone, it was apparent that he had it already. Almost seems like its coming from some of the pores on the head. This morning the white thing is sticking out further then last night.
The fish's color is still good. He ate great last night (Haven't fed them yet today), he was cleaning the cone and dancing for the other fish last night. He is a little more lethargic today then he was last night but he's still displaying for the female and acting quite normal...and they still are interested and get more excited when I go to the tank. No clamped fins.
More info: 2 Adults, 20gal tank nothing else in the tank. Daily or every other day water changes, diet consists of Freeze dried blackworms in Pro-More, Color bits and usually some NLS pellets. Also live Mosquito larva. Temp stays at a rock solid 85.4F, tap water comes out just the same so its a very stable WC. I guess i'll keep the WCs up and maybe put beefheart or a mix back on the menu for more minerals and see what happens.
How you would go about treating this? I'd give you more info but I did a WC first thing this morning and didn't even test the water like I probably should of.
Last night when I first noticed it. Looked JUST like a human puberty pimple. Had some slime coat buildup around the area, much like a human's skin would when a pimple forms.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple1h.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple1g.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple1d.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple1c.jpg
This morning, much more of the white sticking out before WC. (the white is almost gone after the WC)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple2a.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple2b.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple2c.jpg
And here it is after the WC this morning. Almost an open pit like area, but still has a little bit of stuff inside.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple3a.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/pimple3b.jpg
As you can see, otherwise a blemish free healthy fat fish. Should I be really worried?
dwilder
08-13-2010, 04:53 PM
hole in the head starting
roclement
08-13-2010, 05:27 PM
Hole in the head, what you see is the cartilage actualy breaking thorugh the skin...many treatments already listed in the forum. I would treat as hex. More experienced with disease people will chime in.
Rodrigo
Discus-n00b
08-13-2010, 05:35 PM
Water quality is constantly good if not great, and diet is decent (I did cut out mixes, but this was months back and have had no problems since until now). Every fish in my house gets exactly the same treatment as this one and this is the only fish in the house with this problem...ever. It baffles me really.
jball1125
08-13-2010, 05:51 PM
Man the fish looks so healthy too! I hope you get things sorted.
Best wishes!!!
nc0gnet0
08-13-2010, 06:07 PM
Isn't that one of your new Alenquer cross's?
Discus-n00b
08-13-2010, 06:08 PM
Yes, unfortunently it is.
nc0gnet0
08-13-2010, 06:09 PM
I would get in touch with Kenny and see what he suggests, maybe even give him a call.
roclement
08-13-2010, 06:22 PM
I would get in touch with Kenny and see what he suggests, maybe even give him a call.
That is a great idea!
Rodrigo
boxters
08-13-2010, 06:37 PM
what you have there is hole in the head in its early stages. You need to get on top of it asap or you will ruin a great looking fish. You need to treat with metro in the food and water. Make sure the water in that tank is very clean, and the tank is very clean. This disease usually occurs as a result of nutrient deficiency in their food. I would go to the chemist and get some centrum which is a multi vitamin and mix it in their food. Metro is dosed at 200mg per 40 litres of water, therefore 1 tablet per 40 litres. You will need to treat untill clear. If you water change replace the metro you have removed. But most important put it in the food and add multi vits. good luck
Discus-n00b
08-13-2010, 07:33 PM
Talked to Kenny on the phone just now, thanks Kenny! I feel a lot better lol
Its actually cleared up a bunch since these photos were taken this morning. The hole does not look as gaping and there is only a slight trace of the white still there. I'm going to keep up the water changes and then see where he stands then proceed with a treatment if needed.
roclement
08-13-2010, 08:15 PM
Do you have medicated flakes? If not PM me your adress and I will ship you some, I have a lot and I have vacumed packed smaller portions. No problem at all so do not hesitate!
Rodrigo
nc0gnet0
08-13-2010, 09:16 PM
What was your water change schedue prior to the incident? Funny how this occured just as he was preparing to spawn.
Discus-n00b
08-13-2010, 09:45 PM
Every day if I got the chance, sometimes every other day but never went longer then that without one.
Eddie
08-14-2010, 02:16 AM
Sorry to hear Matt, just keep an eye out and make it doesn't get worse or spread. Although many give advice on HITH, nobody knows what causes it or what cures it. I wish I could give some advice buddy.
Just to check, what foods do you feed exactly?
on_golden_wing
08-14-2010, 08:45 AM
I had a Discus like that a 6 months ago and automatically im thinking it's the dreaded hole in the head but what happened was he banged his head against something in the tank,probaly the tile spawning site.It went away in 2 to 3 days time.Hole in the head appears in that part of the head but its also a logical place for them to bang against something as well.Far be it for me to give anyone advice but,,,,,,,,,if he was mine Id keep the water clean and give it a few days before treating with any meds.The only reason I say this is because that exact thing happened to me.My fish im referring to is fine,never any reoccurance.Sometimes things go "bump' in the night.I hope this is your case as well.
Daniel
nc0gnet0
08-14-2010, 12:04 PM
The area between the nostrils also seems to be a common place for the fish to get nipped at if in an aggresive tank. Noobs incidence almost seems to have come on and receding too fast (overnight) to be hole in the head. Add to that the coincendence of the mating ritual the prior night and this might be nothing more than a mere self inflicted injury.....although one that has to be monitored closely for infection.
Discus-n00b
08-14-2010, 12:34 PM
Thats what i'm hoping for. However I havn't fed a mix in a while, so it very well could be nutrition related, though all the other fish have been fine. I mix it up between NLS pellets, some flake I got from Ken's, color bits, and freeze dried blackworms (only recently soaked in Pro solutions). The Ken's flake and NLS are on and off as the fish havn't taken to them as well as the others. Might go back to a mix now. Its just been nice not having to prepare food like that and feed it (can be messy!).
I wanted to attribute it to a self injury, but i'm not sure. He was cleaning the cone hard that night, and that was my first thought...but when I looked in video I had taken of him doing that he already had a white pimple going. I would guess that it doesn't instantly start as a white pimple. I must of just totally missed it a few hours before that when I fed them...or it wasn't there.
Update for today is, the white stuff came back overnight, though not to the extent as yesterday. Just did another water change. I've got some meds on order (meds to possibly treat this if if gets worse and others to stock up my supply....never had a discus first aid kit so I figure now is a great time to put something together) so i'll be just doing WCs with some salt and see how it goes until the meds arrive then see where we stand.
Thing is with this fish I see many craters around the head region. I had something very similar to this about 16 years ago. Started with one ended up loosing 6 . Overnight a small white fungus/cartilage filled hole would explode and leave a 1/4" crater. I do hope this is not the same though. Good luck
Discus-n00b
08-14-2010, 01:36 PM
I wouldn't call them craters. I've seen the holes many times and on every discus i've ever owned especially during Macro photography. A crater to me is a late case of HITH and a large divot in the face.
This is the same fish a couple days before.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/alenquerface2b.jpg
That's just what I always called them I guess because mine ended up being like craters!
nc0gnet0
08-14-2010, 07:07 PM
Well, I think what some people fail to realize is the scale of your photo's making the "pimple" look alot worse than it is. Not many people have the abilitly to take such clear macro photo's to post on the disease section.
FWIW, My Alanquer cross has taken well to the Angel Plus flakes, and they have a good vitamin flake, as well as some good medicated flakes I highly recomend. Not to say Ken's isn't good, I just have never tried it. Specialty flakes only have value if they are eaten.
I don't think you have had the fish long enough (less than a month) for this to be a vitamin defiency. And while I can't be sure, I am guessing both of our fish's spent time in the same tank.
That is some photo taking! what do you use?
Discus-n00b
08-14-2010, 08:19 PM
Thats true, all of these pictures are from a 100mm macro lens and still scaled down so you can see it in a decent size, not where it blows up your screen.
Discus-n00b
08-15-2010, 08:24 PM
Don't want to speak to soon, but it looks like the white (cartilage you say?) has all but stopped coming out. No sign of it. Been adding some salt to the tank and doing WCs. The hole does not seem to be growing either. Will monitor further, but so far so good.
roclement
08-15-2010, 08:26 PM
flake is on it's way to you! I wrote down direction on the bags.
Rodrigo
Discus-n00b
08-15-2010, 09:41 PM
Thank you very much Rod!
nc0gnet0
08-21-2010, 07:49 AM
How about an update?
Discus-n00b
08-21-2010, 08:14 PM
Sure. Well its pretty much been status quo since. After this first one subsided (still has the hole but doesn't seem to be growing or anything coming out anymore) he had another pop up just behind it, fighting that one now. I've got them on some Metro flakes currently that rod sent me, daily water changes and some salt added to the water each time.
Condition seems normal, knock on wood...he hasn't declined any, but haven't really made progress I guess since another one popped up.
just something to think about, I still think they are not sure whether hih is parasite/pathogen or vitamin/mineral deficiency. May be good to check out about adding vitamins.
Discus-n00b
08-23-2010, 07:22 PM
Well guys, another update! Good news! Looks like he is making a full recovery. I don't want to call it a war victory yet, but i've won the battle. He's back to his old self, the holes are still there, though they almost look like they are kind of repairing themselves and no sign of anything in them. He's also cleaning the cone with the other one as I type this (come on give me some babies! ;))
Past few days he was kind of lethargic, still eating and swimming but a little dark and lethargic. Now he is full color, active, and very interested in everything. Saturday night it wasn't getting any better or worse so I decided to try something, using a Q-tip and Hydrogen Peroxide. I took the fish out during a WC and dried the area off as best I could, then applied just a little bit of hydrogen peroxide, let it work for a few seconds then put the fish back in the tank. The hydrogen peroxide pretty much made a bubble net over the area i applied it, I guess on the slime coat? 30mins-1hr later I looked at him and it looked like he was burned bad. It had burnt right through the slime coat in the area and white slime was hanging off around the edges. I slapped myself on the forehead and said what have I done, but left it to see what would happen. Well the next day it was pretty much all healed. And today its even better. The hydrogen peroxide took out part of the slime coat there but it seems to have taken out everything else bad too.
So now it looks like 2 holes and nothing else, no growth in the size of holes or anything. Hopefully I beat this. I'm going to continue the Metro flakes for at LEAST 2 more days, as recommended. Then reassess the situation. I can't attribute the recovery to one thing alone, daily water changes with salt added, feeding metro flake twice a day(thanks rod!), and the hydrogen peroxide incident seemed to all help.
Thanks to all who have helped, especially Rod, Kenny, and Eddie and all of you in this thread. Not out of the woods yet, but I think i'm now on the right path.
Eddie
08-24-2010, 02:47 AM
Good to hear Matt! Hope everything continues to improve.
All the best,
Eddie
Discus-n00b
08-25-2010, 08:00 PM
Here are pictures from yesterday. You can see a secondary hole that formed, thats when the pimple spread. They now seem to be closing up.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/scar1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/scar2.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/scar3.jpg
And some closer shots.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/scar2close.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/Discus/scar3close.jpg
DiscusKev
08-25-2010, 08:18 PM
Such a great looking discus, hope all is well and that there won't be an obvious scar.
How much of the succesful healing would you attribute to the hydrogen peroxide over the salt, clean water, metro flakes?
Did you treat metro in the water colum as well?
Discus-n00b
08-25-2010, 10:00 PM
No, just metro flakes. I think the hydrogen peroxide helped a lot, but for me it got worse before it got better. I might not have had the best technique applying the hydrogen peroxide or something, not sure. I think it all played a roll, hard to really say what did it, but I think the hydrogen peroxide stopped it in its tracks.
No, just metro flakes. I think the hydrogen peroxide helped a lot, but for me it got worse before it got better. I might not have had the best technique applying the hydrogen peroxide or something, not sure. I think it all played a roll, hard to really say what did it, but I think the hydrogen peroxide stopped it in its tracks.
Thanks Mat, that's what I got from reading through the thread.
flyman767
08-26-2010, 12:41 AM
Strange..I noticed yesterday after my routine water change that one of my pigeons developed 3 white pimples. 1 pimple was just where the caudal peduncle(tail fin meets body) and two on the caudal fin(tail). However, this morning I noticed the one on his caudal peduncle had totally disappeared. The two on his tail were hardly noticeable. They looked exactly like Matt's pics except they were perfectly rounded. I'm thinking he may of just scraped himself somewhere in the tank.
damn , now my pigeon blood has the same thing too.
:(
flyman767
08-30-2010, 07:10 PM
I gave the infected pigeon a PP bath. All pimples were clear. However, by the next morning a few reappeared(different location) on the caudal fin. They usually last a day or two and disappear. Really strange..:confused:
Eddie
08-30-2010, 07:14 PM
I gave the infected pigeon a PP bath. All pimples were clear. However, by the next morning a few reappeared(different location) on the caudal fin. They usually last a day or two and disappear. Really strange..:confused:
Sounds like something related to the main tank. Can you get some pictures of the spots?
flyman767
08-30-2010, 07:31 PM
Sounds like something related to the main tank. Can you get some pictures of the spots?
Eddie..I'm on a business trip and will try to upload some pics when I get home. The pigeon in question has had this once before. He had the same thing about 6 months ago; However, this was just above his upper lip. I noticed it at night and by the next morning it was gone. These pimples are on/near the caudal fin.
I don't think it's a tank issue because all the other 9 discus are perfectly clean. Appearance is of a 'white head' acne pimple(s). Some of the pimples appear to have an elongated 'short string attached' emitting from the pimple.
Eddie
08-30-2010, 07:36 PM
Eddie..I'm on a business trip and will try to upload some pics when I get home. The pigeon in question has had this once before. He had the same thing about 6 months ago; However, this was just above his upper lip. I noticed it at night and by the next morning it was gone. These pimples are on/near the caudal fin.
I don't think it's a tank issue because all the other 9 discus are perfectly clean. Appearance is of a 'white head' acne pimple(s). Some of the pimples appear to have an elongated 'short string attached' emitting from the pimple.
It can still be an issue related to the main tank, some fish are easier infected than others. A single fish in a tank can show symptoms and none of the others.
flyman767
08-30-2010, 07:51 PM
It can still be an issue related to the main tank, some fish are easier infected than others. A single fish in a tank can show symptoms and none of the others.
Any time I've had an an issue over the years..I can usually end up concluding the problem was self-induced. You end changing protocol or make a mistake somewhere along the line to cause either death or sickness.
The only change I've made recently was to the GH. I was doing a 50% RO/tap mix. However, I increased my w/c's and decided for grow outs the ro wasn't really needed. Therefore, I now using straight tap. The only change was to the hardness..7GH vs 14GH. I can't imagine the GH would cause this issue? All other perimeters have been stable.
danny2013
08-30-2010, 07:58 PM
How exactly does a fish get hole in head anyway?
Eddie
08-30-2010, 08:04 PM
How exactly does a fish get hole in head anyway?
That's the real question, nobody knows. Lots of ideas out there, from water quality, diet, internal parasites, external bacteria. Maybe it ALL of those combined!
Eddie
Discus-n00b
08-30-2010, 10:28 PM
Eddie is correct, and I personally saw it. Only one of the 2 fish in the tank had this problem, the other was perfectly fine.
On a side note, the holes have now all but closed up, looks good as new!
Eddie
08-30-2010, 11:33 PM
Eddie is correct, and I personally saw it. Only one of the 2 fish in the tank had this problem, the other was perfectly fine.
On a side note, the holes have now all but closed up, looks good as new!
Thats fantastic Matt! I guess in the this instance, it may have been internal issues, maybe robbing the fish of nutrients. :o
Take care,
Eddie
Discus-n00b
09-06-2010, 09:53 PM
Well, some bad news. It popped up again...this time on the other side of the fish. The exact same spot above the eye. Same symptoms, looks exactly the same. Put them back on the Metro flake and will follow basically the same routine as before.
Eddie
09-06-2010, 09:56 PM
Well, some bad news. It popped up again...this time on the other side of the fish. The exact same spot above the eye. Same symptoms, looks exactly the same. Put them back on the Metro flake and will follow basically the same routine as before.
Sorry to hear Matt, hope it clears brother.
Eddie
Discus-n00b
09-06-2010, 09:59 PM
Its frustrating lol, but I'll get through it. I guess if I wanted it easy I would keep guppies. The worst part is both times its come up, both fish are dancing with each other picking the cone. Then I have to go into treatment mode instead of breeding mode and it throws off the fish.
Its frustrating lol, but I'll get through it. I guess if I wanted it easy I would keep guppies. The worst part is both times its come up, both fish are dancing with each other picking the cone. Then I have to go into treatment mode instead of breeding mode and it throws off the fish.
HMMM, could this fish be injuring themselves during courting/cleaning and the medicine putting them off breeding behaviour just allows for enough time to heal themselves?
Discus-n00b
09-06-2010, 11:38 PM
It really doesn't look like an injury to me. More like infection type. And its a bit odd its been on both sides of the fish in the exact same place.
Sharkbait
10-25-2010, 06:32 PM
I just noticed this today on one of my red turqs while feeding. Exact same spot, looks exactly the same.
I'm adding medicated flakes and salt. Did you raise temp too?
Discus-n00b
10-27-2010, 10:50 PM
Sorry I just saw this. No I did not raise my temp, but living in South Carolina...it stays pretty warm here so the days, even inside, tend to heat the tanks up some on their own.
Sharkbait
10-27-2010, 11:07 PM
Noticed it fading after just adding salt. Colour came back as well.
I love not over-reacting :)
My fish are pretty dark in general though - I probably should change the background.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.