Growing out discus... large tank

[FastFreddy]

It turns out my carefully planned out setup may not be quite as well planned out as I thought :( Being a fishkeeper of a number of years I know that the general rule is the larger the aquarium the better. Knowing this and looking around at a few setups I went ahead and purchased a 560 litre, 150 us gallon aquarium in which I intended to house 6 adult discus. It would seem that not only are adult discus quite a bit more expensive (which I was prepared for) but they are quite difficult to locate in the strains required (which I did not). So my questions is this. If I were only able to find juvenile discus, would the process of growing them to there potential size in a tank this large be a task of monumental proportions? I'm here most of the day so feeding wouldn't be a problem however the notion of do 50%+ water changes daily on this tank seems quite daunting to me. Any help would be grealt appreciated

[Jennie]

you could grow them out in a smaller tank and transfer them in 6 months, but
with the amount of food you have to feed them to get them to the size you want, trying to clean a large tank daily is quite a chore. grow them to 4 inches or so and then transfer OR just buy the large ones.

[discuspaul]

discuslover 65 is quite right - why not just settle for a tank 1/2 that size for now i.e. 75 gals, and get the largest Juvies you can find - say 4.0" or so.
If you do bare-bottom, at least initially, till they grow out some more, you should readily get by with say 50% or more, w/c's every 2nd or 3rd day, but their growth time pattern may slow up a little.

[scottthomas]

I would just use a divider such as the poret foam and raise the juvies in about half of your 150 gal tank until they are larger. I think they will feel safer and happier in a smaller space. I have raised many juvies in my 100 gal tank with this method. They did not seem comfortable until I made the space smaller. With your large tank the water quality will probably be better than in a 55 or 75 gal tank anyway. I think it will be fine. You may want more than 6 adults in that tank and it will be cheaper to buy them as juvies. I would go with the 150 if you dont want to have to buy another tank.

[Altum Nut]

Hey Fast Freddy,

You can try the link I posted where you can aquire some quality Discus from a SD Sponsor.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=81734

Best of luck,
...Ralph

[FastFreddy]

Thankyou everyone so much these is great advice. I'm only and live at home so I don't think my parents would be happy if I bought a second tank after having just payed for the big one. I may ask the manufacturer if he can hold onto my tank for a while if I buy a smaller one to grow out the discus and then move the bigger to my house once the discus are grown. Thanks Ralph I've been in contact with rod and he said he would reserve some Giant Flora's for me but he hasn't seen any adult or sub adult ones come in since he's been getting them. Hopefully the manufacturer will understand my predicament.

[Jennie]

heres a thought freddy. why don't u just keep the water level at 1/2 the volume?? Keep it bare bottom and then grow your discus for a bit. then u can just have the one tank


Thankyou everyone so much these is great advice. I'm only and live at home so I don't think my parents would be happy if I bought a second tank after having just payed for the big one. I may ask the manufacturer if he can hold onto my tank for a while if I buy a smaller one to grow out the discus and then move the bigger to my house once the discus are grown. Thanks Ralph I've been in contact with rod and he said he would reserve some Giant Flora's for me but he hasn't seen any adult or sub adult ones come in since he's been getting them. Hopefully the manufacturer will understand my predicament.

[Eddie]

heres a thought freddy. why don't u just keep the water level at 1/2 the volume?? Keep it bare bottom and then grow your discus for a bit. then u can just have the one tank

Not that it is a bad idea but depending on the height of the tank, discus don't really like water when its too shallow IME. I'd tried the half filled technique and the juvies didn't like it. They were too spread out long ways and seemed to not give them a good sense of security. :o

Eddie

[Jennie]

Oh well, it was a thought??


Not that it is a bad idea but depending on the height of the tank, discus don't really like water when its too shallow IME. I'd tried the half filled technique and the juvies didn't like it. They were too spread out long ways and seemed to not give them a good sense of security. :o

Eddie

[Eddie]

Oh well, it was a thought??

True, no worries. If its a really tall tank, it might do. ;)

[FastFreddy]

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Unfortunately the tank is only 24" tall so I don't think they would appreciate the water that shallow. I think I will just invest in a smaller tank for the time being, I think that getting younger discus will probably offset the costs of the setup anyway. Thanks again everyone :D

[zeke8722]

Currently I'm raising 15 juvies in a 180. They are all about 3''. I divided the tank with egg crate ceiling tile so they are in about 60 gallons of water, then in a month or so I'll extend it to about 120 gallons, then eventually the entire volume of water. I also thought about getting a smaller tank for them but as it turns out, it isn't bad raising them in such large tank...just more surfaces to wipe down. I change roughly 25% daily.

It is possible to have plants with a BB also. What I did was get some cool looking glass pots, fill with some gravel and plant several amazon swords - the discus love it, best of both worlds (planted and BB).

Zack

[Jhhnn]

Rod's 10cm fish aren't babies- more like teenagers. a group of 6 or more, preferably more, would be entirely happy in a 150gal tank, ime.

I raised a group of 8- 10cm(4") discus in a BB 120gal tank, where they still live, and they've done great. I doubt that a bigger tank would have intimidated them in the slightest. They hang together when they feel like it, spread out more when they don't, and food has never gone to waste...

[vera]

I would just use a divider such as the poret foam and raise the juvies in about half of your 150 gal tank until they are larger. I think they will feel safer and happier in a smaller space. I have raised many juvies in my 100 gal tank with this method. They did not seem comfortable until I made the space smaller. With your large tank the water quality will probably be better than in a 55 or 75 gal tank anyway. I think it will be fine. You may want more than 6 adults in that tank and it will be cheaper to buy them as juvies. I would go with the 150 if you dont want to have to buy another tank.

+1
especially ,if number of tanks is limited , but u still can afford the biggest one
TC

[Altum Nut]

Hey Freddy,

Lots of different suggestions here.
You have to realize that if you decide to buy juvies at 2" to 3" and keep them in your 150g......that is alot of water volume to change every day if you want them to grow to thier full potential.
The amount of water thrown down the drain will offset the price of a new or used smaller grow out tank....say 35g to 55g.
Dividing you 150g will still have 150g of water volume. So it will not be a 75g tank!

Best of luck Freddy,
...Ralph

[exv152]

...The amount of water thrown down the drain will offset the price of a new or used smaller grow out tank....say 35g to 55g.


For six juvies I'd say you could grow them out very well in a 40 gal BB tank. Or go with a 55 gal and get eight, they would look much better in a 150 gal tank eventually.

[scottthomas]

Hey Freddy,

Lots of different suggestions here.
You have to realize that if you decide to buy juvies at 2" to 3" and keep them in your 150g......that is alot of water volume to change every day if you want them to grow to thier full potential.
The amount of water thrown down the drain will offset the price of a new or used smaller grow out tank....say 35g to 55g.
Dividing you 150g will still have 150g of water volume. So it will not be a 75g tank!

Best of luck Freddy,
...Ralph

6-8 Juvies in a 150 gal tank will require less frequency of wc than 6-8 juvies in a 40 gal tank. You dont have to change 50% of water every time regardless of the volume. 150 gals of water will take longer for quality to degrade IMO. Plus, if you force them on one side, you aonly have to clean poop in one small area:)

[Chad Adams]

6-8 Juvies in a 150 gal tank will require less frequency of wc than 6-8 juvies in a 40 gal tank. You dont have to change 50% of water every time regardless of the volume. 150 gals of water will take longer for quality to degrade IMO. Plus, if you force them on one side, you aonly have to clean poop in one small area:)

I'm with Scott, this would be my preferred method & is good advice.
Chad

[Jhhnn]

I've used a cascade power filter all along in my 120gal tank. It discharges straight down in a back corner, and the sponge prefilter is up high in the other. This creates a laminar flow across the bottom, herding the poop into discreet areas away from the discharge. Depending on how the sponge filters are arranged, it often ends up in a few discreet piles. I never siphon more than 1/3 of the bottom, anyway, because there's nothing there...

[Eddie]

6-8 Juvies in a 150 gal tank will require less frequency of wc than 6-8 juvies in a 40 gal tank. You dont have to change 50% of water every time regardless of the volume. 150 gals of water will take longer for quality to degrade IMO. Plus, if you force them on one side, you aonly have to clean poop in one small area:)


I'm with Scott, this would be my preferred method & is good advice.
Chad


Not that I disagree completely but if you partition one part of the tank and feed the juvies heavily, I think it would be wise to do frequent changes regardless of whats on the other side of the divider. You'll want to keep the partioned area with the juveniles prestine.

Eddie

[Cevoe]

Freddy,
In my opinion, decide what you really want in the way of the fish.
The grow-outs are one thing and mature discus are something else.
I am currently growing some out in a 55 and also keeping full grown fish in a 100.
I do love the grow-outs but I am also happy that I have the big ones.
I bought both the small ones and the large ones from the same Simply Discus sponsor and I remember the advice he gave me...Go with the bigger ones whenever you can.
I would stick with the large tank, start with the largest fish you can afford and take it slow. Add pairs or a few at a time down the road.
Chances are if you get the bug like most do, you will be adding tanks sometime soon anyway so get the big one out of the way first.
I don't think that doing the grow-outs in a big tank is the way to go.
It will still take the frequent water changes to do it the right way and no matter how you twist it or turn it, a 150 gallon tank is a lot of water.
Good luck.
Chris

[exv152]

... I'm here most of the day so feeding wouldn't be a problem however the notion of do 50%+ water changes daily on this tank seems quite daunting to me. Any help would be grealt appreciated

FastFreddy, What's the water hardness in your area? I know water in Britain can be quite hard, and that would only add to the "monumentalness" of the WC-task, not to mention heating, aging etc.

[fishorama]

Divide the your tank & conquer the poo! is my advice for what it's worth. Smaller but frequent water changes/vacuuming seem like a good way to go (now that I've grown discus juvies for a year now, LOL) Can you do 25-30% WCs almost daily? That seems reasonable even if you have to age/?? your water.

[Jhhnn]

I disagree strongly with the piecemeal addition of discus to an existing system. All new arrivals need to be quarantined for a suitable period to avoid serious problems, even if they come from the same breeder and the same seller. Which means you'll need another tank large enough to do it. That complicates water changing, and increases risk no matter how good the quarantine. One of our member's entire stock of some very, very nice fish was wiped out when an airborne pathogen was introduced to his fishroom from what appeared to be a reputable source at the time. Bad stuff happens.

This is how I approached my first discus in over 20 years, and it seemed the best from the information I could gather.

I set up my 120gal tank as a bare bottom tank with a canister filter and 4 of the #3ATI sponge filters, then cycled it using ammonia to be ready for discus. It wasn't as well cycled as I would have liked, but it worked with some diligent water changing. I set up a water aging and changing system and made sure it worked to my satisfaction, made that job easy. Not everybody can or needs to age their water. *Setting this up is extremely important to any keeper's success and satisfaction.* I can't emphasize it enough. I then ordered a group of 9 of the largest discus I could afford, all of the same size and variety, likely hatch mates. They were 4" fish, and they came from Kenny Cheung. Quarantine was a non-issue, and they already had their pecking order sorted out, having lived together their whole lives in a bigger school. I lost 1 to bloat very early on. The rest have thrived, grown to be quite large with lots of food and clean water.

If it had been necessary to save to do that, to wait, I would have. More discus will be available down the road, and the whole exercise was a large enough expense for me to want to get it right the first time. It wasn't something I wanted to rush into, not a flight of fancy at all, but rather a long term commitment. I strongly encourage others to look at it the same way.

People who want to keep discus in planted tanks should really obtain adults, spend more money, simply because it's hugely more difficult to provide enough food and maintain water quality required to grow out smaller fish in a planted tank environment. They definitely need a lot of food to grow, a surprising amount of food...

Good luck with whatever you decide. I've had some of that, too, I'm sure...

[FastFreddy]

Unfortunately it does not look as though I will be able to get a smaller tank and the large tank will be arriving soon as it is already paid for. Thank you everyone for your advice. Some people seem to misunderstand my intentions. The 150g will be bare bottom with maybe a few potted plants. I think the best course of action will be to wait until a group of large discus become available and purchase them. Perhaps Rod has a few larger specimens already. My main concern was not growing out juvenile discus to their potential size. As I will (hopefully) be buying adult discus this will not be a problem just more $$$. Thanks again everyone.