Attaching: How many days before calling it quits

[DiscusOnly]

I have a pair of Pigeon SS that I can't get the frys to attach. A few do hang around the parent and then then are out and about again. They are on their 4th day now and quite a few have died off.

At what point should I just call it quit and try a new batch? This is about their 10th time spawning and 3rd time that they went free swimming. I feel that I am closer each time.

They are currently in a 20gal high that is half filled (I filled it up half way since I am away during the day) with only air stone running. I had tried getting them to attach each nigh by lowering the water and turning off everything.

Tank is currently covered with white paper all around. What else am I missing?

Open to suggestions.

TIA

Van

[Eddie]

Hey there Van, when you said you lowered the water, was it to the point where the fish were tilted?

[DiscusOnly]

Hey there Van, when you said you lowered the water, was it to the point where the fish were tilted?


Yes.. and the pair was cooperating too. They pretty much tag team the frys into a corner. The Male is very aggressive toward the female. The biggest problem (I think) is that the male is so clean and the female shows some peppering. Frys only stay attached to them for a short period of time.

I tested the frys by putting the sponge filter back.. They swarmed to it.

[Eddie]

Yes.. and the pair was cooperating too. They pretty much tag team the frys into a corner. The Male is very aggressive toward the female. The biggest problem (I think) is that the male is so clean and the female shows some peppering. Frys only stay attached to them for a short period of time.

I tested the frys by putting the sponge filter back.. They swarmed to it.


What about a partition using white foam maybe? The AquaClear sponge filters work well if they are stacked up.

[DiscusOnly]

What about a partition using white foam maybe? The AquaClear sponge filters work well if they are stacked up.

I've been picking up the dead frys and trying to keep the water clean since I've not had a sponge filter in that tank for 3 days now.

I am just wondering if I should give up on this batch and try to use what you suggested on the next batch. What point does frys fall behind too much. In my other spawn, I start to feed the frys around 5 days.

Thanks
Van

[DiscusOnly]

Here is a picture of the pair (Stendker of course) :D

[Eddie]

I've been picking up the dead frys and trying to keep the water clean since I've not had a sponge filter in that tank for 3 days now.

I am just wondering if I should give up on this batch and try to use what you suggested on the next batch. What point does frys fall behind too much. In my other spawn, I start to feed the frys around 5 days.

Thanks
Van


Nice pair, nice and orange too. I wouldn't think it would be so hard for the little ones to see the orange. I don't really know about the negative affects from the fry not attaching soon. I'd wait it out and then try the white sponge partition on the next try. Or, there is always foster parenting and then artificial.

[jaykne]

Hey Van, they are some very nice fish, love a clean Pigeon! But anyways in my limited experance the one pair I have would fight as the fry started attaching and seemed to scare the fry, so I put and one of those egg crate dividers to seperate the parents but the fry could still go back and forth and seemed right after that they all started attaching even to the Albino PB female. Larry

[DiscusOnly]

Hey Van, they are some very nice fish, love a clean Pigeon! But anyways in my limited experance the one pair I have would fight as the fry started attaching and seemed to scare the fry, so I put and one of those egg crate dividers to seperate the parents but the fry could still go back and forth and seemed right after that they all started attaching even to the Albino PB female. Larry

Thanks Larry. Can't take credit on the fish (have to thank Hans for that one).

That thought had occurred to me (fighting) as the female is getting beat up pretty bad. At times, they seem to work together but the male does appear to want to take control of the frys. He does his darting motion at times and it's amazing how he can do start and stop toward the group of frys.

I like to just get things go naturally but it's starting to wear me down. I got this pair back in mid May and they spawned 2 days after I got it. I've been working on getting wigglers out of them and now it just seems so close. I am just ready to grow some frys.

[jaykne]

Thanks Larry. Can't take credit on the fish (have to thank Hans for that one).

That thought had occurred to me (fighting) as the female is getting beat up pretty bad. At times, they seem to work together but the male does appear to want to take control of the frys. He does his darting motion at times and it's amazing how he can do start and stop toward the group of frys.

I like to just get things go naturally but it's starting to wear me down. I got this pair back in mid May and they spawned 2 days after I got it. I've been working on getting wigglers out of them and now it just seems so close. I am just ready to grow some frys.

Was the opposite with mine the female wanted to take control:). But Ya every time the female started fighting with him the fry that had started attaching would get scared and just hide in the corner or scatter all over the tank. I wish my fish could have done it natural also but I had to put the divider in when they were 2 days free swimming, but that worked really well just was kind of a pain doing water changes and cleaning the inside glass with the divider but was not to bad was only a couple weeks before I had them eating on thier own and then pulled the parents.

[CliffsDiscus]

The fry should be able to feed on BBS already, you can seperate the fry from the parents.

Cliff

[robthekop]

I've all but given up on my two pair of Stendker Red Pigeon Bloods, they breed constantly but the fry never make it onto their backs despite lowering water etc. I've bred plenty of PB's but these don't seem to produce the mucus to attract the fry.

[URL=http://img237.imageshack.us/i/21082010117.jpg/]http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5296/21082010117.jpg[/URL

[scottthomas]

Maybe try removing the female soon after fertilization takes place. Perhaps new dynamics would help if they are fighting over the fry. I have a male who doesnt want the female to have any fry and he keeps the fry in a corner of the tank when together. However, he does fine when left by himself.

[DiscusOnly]

I've actually removed the male and after 24 hours.. still no attachement. I am going to start feeding them bbs tonight and see what happens. My frys count are way down so that's my last resort.

[robthekop]

I'm getting large spawns with both parents in both pairs being very attentive and protective, the fry just don't seem to latch onto their sides.

[DiscusOnly]

Just an update on them. Still not attached but the frys that are left is starting to eat bbs. Keeping my fingers cross on them making it.


Van

[robthekop]

Good Vlan

[DiscusOnly]

The fry should be able to feed on BBS already, you can seperate the fry from the parents.

Cliff

Cliff,

Thanks for the suggestion. Frys are eating bbs throughout the weekend and doing fine. I decided to keep just the mom in with them for now.

[Eddie]

Thats great news Van! Nice work.

all the best,

Eddie

[jaykne]

That is really good news Van, hope they all make it.

Great idea Cliff!!! Larry

[DiscusOnly]

Thanks Eddie and Larry.

Not a lot of frys (about 30). I don't usually try to grow out such small number but hearing that others are having similiar issue with this strain, I think it's worth a try. Beside, I am trying to breed some albino at the moment so this is good for adjusting my attitude toward raising small spawn.

I put the male with my "good" pigeon mom and see if it makes a difference with attaching.

Van

[Larry Bugg]

Well sounds soooooo familar. I almost gave up on my Stendker Pigeon SS pair. It took more than ten trys for them also. They now have their second spawn attached. Sometimes it just takes a lot of patience.

[DiscusOnly]

Well sounds soooooo familar. I almost gave up on my Stendker Pigeon SS pair. It took more than ten trys for them also. They now have their second spawn attached. Sometimes it just takes a lot of patience.

I agree that it's probably due to their inexperience. It took a good 6-7 tries before I got wigglers. I don't think it's a slime issue cause when I took the filter out, I had a lot of slime in the water before each wc.

[vera]

Thats great Van !
Best of luck !

[DiscusOnly]

Learned something new today. Don't leave the mom in there too long if they aren't attaching!

Got home from work and was excited to see that most of the frys (about 30 were hovering and attaching to mom). I fed the frys with BBS. I came down stair after dinner and a total shock. Most of the frys are gone! I can only assume that it was consumed by mom.

I pulled what's left 8 frys from the tank and put them in a 5 gal.

Oh well...I guess better luck next time. :cry:

Van

[Eddie]

Learned something new today. Don't leave the mom in there too long if they aren't attaching!

Got home from work and was excited to see that most of the frys (about 30 were hovering and attaching to mom). I fed the frys with BBS. I came down stair after dinner and a total shock. Most of the frys are gone! I can only assume that it was consumed by mom.

I pulled what's left 8 frys from the tank and put them in a 5 gal.

Oh well...I guess better luck next time. :cry:

Van


Sorry to hear Van. All the best with the 8.

Take care,

Eddie

[Dvlassis]

Hi Guys. Sorry to bring up an old thread but I can't find the answers I need anywhere. I have finally gotten my fry to the point where they need to attach to the parents! The bad news is that they arent attaching. I drained the tank with a large water change and all 80 freeswimmers attached. then I refilled the tank and a little more than half of them have unattached and are swarming in a ball in the top corner of the back of my tank. Mom knows they are there, but she stays about six inches below them with the others who are attached. Was I supposed to leave the tank level low for more than an hour or so? I thought because the were attached I was in the clear! I need to get these babies on the go because they are using my 130 gallon tank and all my other fish have been crowded into a spare 55 gallon. When is it possible to change tanks? They went freeswimming two days ago.

[Altum Nut]

Have you started to hatch any BBS yet or you can use Golden Pearl 50-100.
Fry will have a rough time finding parents in a 130g. You can divide a section off, put your other fish back in and prepare your 55g to transport fry and parents or just keep them in the 130g with the divider.

...Ralph

[Larry208]

I had a similar problem this last time, and the male would not let the female near the little ones, but neither would he take care of them himself. He put the babies in the corner and he would keep the mother in the other. I put a eggcrate divider in the tank and when he was sure that the mother could not get to the babies he went to taking care of them and has been doing it since. I then took out the mother and the divider.
Maybe yours are doing something similar.

Larry