FREE SWIMMERS & WATER CHANGES

[alexfl73]

Hi All,

After many attempts, we finally have some wigglers!! Very excited to see them progressing. The parents have moved them away from the spawn site underneath a broadleaf of a plant. My question now turns to water changes. Ive noticed that when i leave the water alone naturally the PH goes down. I never really adjusted my aged water and I always bring in water that is around 7.2. The old water is always around 6.5. What I wonder is weather to bring down the PH in my holding tanks prior to doing a water change or can the free swimmers (or wigglers at this time) can tolerate a ph shift to 7.2. Thanks for your input!!

[Keith Perkins]

Congratulations on the wrigglers, hopefully you'll get through the next couple of stages too. :) I don't have an answer to your question, but at least I'll give your question a bump. I'm curious, do you have an airstone running in your holding tanks? Also, how long would you say you age your water? I don't normally test Ph because I don't want to fiddle with anything besides TDS, but I've never had a problem with wrigglers or fry do to WCs. Okay, except when I accidentally suck up a fry, but that's another thread.

[alexfl73]

Air stone and heater... I never really worry about ph either. However I feel it's a whole new ball game with wigglers!!

[kaceyo]

Congrats on the wrigglers.
Feed very lightly or not at all, and do no more than 25% wc's and you should be fine.
Make sure the incoming water is not directed at the wrigglers.

[Keith Perkins]

Air stone and heater... I never really worry about ph either. However I feel it's a whole new ball game with wigglers!!

Your fish appear to like what you've been doing so far, so I wouldn't start making major changes in your routine. Tweaks and refinements sure, but not changes. Fiddling with your Ph may cause a lot more problems than what you're trying to fix. I'd be patient, stick with what you're doing now, and see what happens.

[John_Nicholson]

Like has already been said .....I would just keep doing exactly what you have been doing up to this point.

Good luck.

-john

[alexfl73]

thanks for the input.. Did a 25% WC, with no problems. Coincidently, once the new water came in the wigglers became free swimmers!. The parents were trying to catch them and put them back in spawn site. They are now getting the idea of eating the slime from the parents. It seesm like its a slow process but nature takes its course. At first the free swimmers were everywhere and also graviated to the sponge filter. When I came home for lunch i notice them all around the parents and occasionally pecking at the slime. Not all there yet, but at least they are all around the parents now. I guess my next question is feeding. I havent feed them in 1 day and was wondering what the ideal feeding is when they are "nursing" the fry. Im afraid of sparking a frenzy response and have them eat the fry. Given that they keep putting them in their mouth to move them around. What do you guys suggest??

[John_Nicholson]

I would just do what you already do. Whether or not they eat the fry will be based on their instincts more then anything else. They don't eat the fry because they ate hungry or because they got in a feeding frenzy. Some pairs will get it right the very first time and some will spawn 15 or 20 times and never get it right. I would keep feeding the pair, keep doing water changes and let nature take its course.

-john

[alexfl73]

when i came home, the number of fry has diminished :( OR they are hiding in the tank. It seems that they were getting the hang of it this afternoon and swimming around the parents. It now seems that the few that are left are back to the spawn site. The parents keep putting them there:confused:

[Keith Perkins]

Sorry to hear your numbers have dwindled...been there, done that. It's nothing you have done, or didn't do, so don't sweat it. These things just happen, especially with first time parents.

[alexfl73]

today they are all gone :(

do I assume that the parents ate them? or are they dead in the gravel?

I think my next batch, i will seperate the male, as he seems to be the real aggresive one around the time they spawn. The female is just hanging out today not swimming much.

[Eddie]

today they are all gone :(

do I assume that the parents ate them? or are they dead in the gravel?

I think my next batch, i will seperate the male, as he seems to be the real aggresive one around the time they spawn. The female is just hanging out today not swimming much.


I would take John's advice. Trying to make the pair successful generally backfires. Let the pair develop/bond. I have pairs that fight when they have eggs or fry. Sometimes they cool off sometimes they don't. Just let them figure it out more on their own. Also, I'd highly advise moving the pair to barebottom breeder. Fry in a substrate tank are a bit tough to deal with, especially for the parents.

[Keith Perkins]

I would take John's advice. Trying to make the pair successful generally backfires. Let the pair develop/bond. I have pairs that fight when they have eggs or fry. Sometimes they cool off sometimes they don't. Just let them figure it out more on their own. Also, I'd highly advise moving the pair to barebottom breeder. Fry in a substrate tank are a bit tough to deal with, especially for the parents.

I definitely agree you should have the pair in a bare bottom tank. You add way to many variables of things that could go wrong with a gravel base. Can't see if babies are dieing or being eaten, don't know what kind of nasties are lurking in the gravel, the parents can't tend the ones on the bottom, and on and on. I also agree on showing patience and letting the parents try to develop/bond on their own, it's the easiest way. As far as the fighting goes though, that in my experience you really need to keep an eye on. A dominant fish in a pair can do a whole lot of damage to the other in a very short period of time. I've found adding a few fake plants for cover is an excellent tool to allow two fish with a touchy relationship to still successfully do their thing. If the fighting is severe though and wounds start to appear, I don't hesitate to separate the two for the safety of the weaker parent.

[alexfl73]

ok will do ...gotta figure out the best way to remove the substrate. The pair is in a tank by themsleves (20H). Unfortunately I had that tank as my "grow tank" and never really removed the substrate. I see them now cleaning a new area,so it seems like they are ready to try again. Im just not sure if taking them out to remove the substrate will disrupt their "mojo" lol...

[DerekFF]

keep a 8 ft section of hose w/python to start the vac and then take the python off and suck gravel out with the hose. And usually my breeders aren't much effected by things. Their mojo just keeps on going if it's really that time.

[Eddie]

ok will do ...gotta figure out the best way to remove the substrate. The pair is in a tank by themsleves (20H). Unfortunately I had that tank as my "grow tank" and never really removed the substrate. I see them now cleaning a new area,so it seems like they are ready to try again. Im just not sure if taking them out to remove the substrate will disrupt their "mojo" lol...

I would advise removing the pair if you plan to take out the substrate. Member have killed their fish by removing substrate with fish in tank. It can also cause bacteria infections to develop.

[alexfl73]

I would advise removing the pair if you plan to take out the substrate. Member have killed their fish by removing substrate with fish in tank. It can also cause bacteria infections to develop.

I removed them and took out the substrate, kept a good 50% of the old water and put in about 50% new water (aged 6 hours, but better than tap). Ill keep you posted

[Eddie]

I removed them and took out the substrate, kept a good 50% of the old water and put in about 50% new water (aged 6 hours, but better than tap). Ill keep you posted

It would have been better to have extra water available and replace it all. The old water may have pathogens that were in the substrate. Keep an eye on them and watch for infection. Hope it doesn't show up but there is always that chance.

Eddie

[alexfl73]

It would have been better to have extra water available and replace it all. The old water may have pathogens that were in the substrate. Keep an eye on them and watch for infection. Hope it doesn't show up but there is always that chance.

Eddie

i always have extra water, I have a 150G a 60G and 2 20G, so water is always available in my holding tanks. But the substrate was not stirred or removed until after the water was drained. So the 50% old water would have been the same water they've had in the tank all along. I was avoiding a PH spike and shocking the fish.

[alexfl73]

i also vacummed the substrate regulalry