HELP!! My pair discus is fighting and won't eat!!!

[yaya]

I have purchased a pair of discus from a local breeder about a month ago. The local breeder told me they are 1 1/2 years old and have been paired, but have not mated. I got the fish home and they were stressed, but after about 3 days, they got used to the new tank and they were happy and eating fine. about 10 days ago, I did the first water change, and everything seems to go under after that. 2 days after the water change, the female discus started to get aggressive. She will not let the male eat, and is always chasing him around. They would slap each other with their tail, and will even lock jaws. However, the male was no match to the female, so most of the time, the male just got chased around and pecked on by the female. The pecking continued for about a week now, and they both have refused to eat for about 6 days now. Every time if I turn on the light, the female will starts to chase the male, so I keep the light off all day long. However, after few days of chasing and pecking from the female, the male is showing a lot of stress. He is turning dark, and we can see that his side fin and tail is not transparent, there are areas that have turned into white patches. Yesterday, we have put in an egg crate to separate the tank, so the female can't pick on the male. However, they can still see each other, so they still try to lock jaw through the egg crate, but they can't, because the holes on the egg crate is not large enough for them to do so. I have been doing 50% water change for the past week, hoping that the situation will get better, but I really don't know what to do. Can someone help me if you have experienced the same situation? Thank you so much!!!

I have a 29 gallon bio cube, bare on the bottom. I also have a sponge filter in the tank, because this pair grew up with the sponge filter in the tank and they like it in the tank. I use 50% treated tab water and 50% RO water every time when I do the water change. I feed them frozen bloodworm.

The PH is kept at between 6.6 ~ 6.8
Temp is kept at 30 C
Ammonia is 0
Nitrite is 0
Nitrate is 5
PPM is 450 right now

[Altum Nut]

Sorry to hear.
First of all....The stress started as soon as you got them waiting 10 days for the first water change.
Was your tank established? or how long did you cycle?
How do you know male from female?
Could be the male chasing the female.
If you have the temp at 30c and fish have not eaten for 6 days they may have a intestinal infection. Have you seen any fecal matter and what color?
Typically stress may introduce internal and external infections.

Others will add comments to what meds may be available to administer.
Some photos or video may helpto better see what it could be.
Over-all....at this point making sure you have very clean water.

...Ralph

[Tito]

Try a tank divider if it's posible.

[David Rose]

I would find a way to separate them for now. That said, how often are your water changes? i.e. 10 days for the first. Water changes IME, need to be at least every other day at 50% or more. So water quality could be contributing to their stress. With a little more detail to your routine would be good.

[yaya]

Thank you guys for the quick reply. The tank is established. We cycled the tank and make sure everything was 0 after the cycle before we puts in the fish. The local breeder told us which was the male and which was the female. Since they have not been eating, there is no fecal for the past 3 days. But before that, all the fecal was black and powdery looking. However, starting today, I noticed there are yellowing transparent slime looking things floating in the water. It almost seems to me the female wants to mate, because she is swimming vertical along the back wall, but the male is just not interested. so when the male is not participating, the female gets angry and starts to peck on the male.

We have inserted an egg crate to divide them up yesterday.

This first two picture shows how they are divided with egg crate.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31645283&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31645283&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album#!/photo.php?pid=31645287&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

This picture shows the female.

www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31645283&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album#!/photo.php?pid=31645285&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

These two pictures are the male.

www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31645283&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album#!/photo.php?pid=31645284&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31645283&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album#!/photo.php?pid=31645288&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

This is the yellowish transparent slime.

www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31645283&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album#!/photo.php?pid=31645286&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

[yaya]

I have separated them yesterday with egg crate. I have been doing 50% water change everyday for the past 10 days.

[yaya]

Was your tank established? or how long did you cycle?
How do you know male from female?
Could be the male chasing the female.
If you have the temp at 30c and fish have not eaten for 6 days they may have a intestinal infection. Have you seen any fecal matter and what color?
Typically stress may introduce internal and external infections.


The tank is established and everything checked out to be 0 after cycle before we puts in the fish. The local breeder told us which was the male and which was the female. Since they have not been eating for 6 days now, there is really no fecal for the past 3 days. Before that, all the fecal was black and powdery. Starting today, I found yellowish transparent slime, few of them floating in the water and I am not sure what they are. It seems to me the female wants to mate, because she often swimming vertical along the back wall, but she gets angry when the male shows no interest, and she starts to peck on him to pick fights.

These 2 pictures shows how the fish is divided.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=31645283&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=31645287&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

This is the picture of the female.

www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=31645285&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

These 2 pictures are the male.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=31645284&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album&fbid=1613072051204

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=31645288&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

This is the yellowish transparent slime that I found today.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=31645286&id=1368386784&ref=fbx_album

[yaya]

Sorry, I am new for this, so it took me forever and a few try to provide pictures. :(

The tank is established and everything checked out to be 0 after cycle before we puts in the fish. The local breeder told us which was the male and which was the female. Since they have not been eating for 6 days now, there is really no fecal for the past 3 days. Before that, all the fecal was black and powdery. Starting today, I found yellowish transparent slime, few of them floating in the water and I am not sure what they are. It seems to me the female wants to mate, because she often swimming vertical along the back wall, but she gets angry when the male shows no interest, and she starts to peck on him to pick fights.

These 2 pictures shows how the fish is divided.

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=2161234027/PictureID=77710488027/a=921611027_921611027/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=2161234027/PictureID=77706274027/a=921611027_921611027/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

This is the picture of the female.

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=2161234027/PictureID=77710489027/a=921611027_921611027/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

These 2 pictures are the male.

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=2161234027/PictureID=77706269027/a=921611027_921611027/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=2161234027/PictureID=77710491027/a=921611027_921611027/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/


This is the yellowish transparent slime that I found today.

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/slideshow/AlbumID=2161234027/PictureID=77710490027/a=921611027_921611027/otsc=SHR/otsi=SPIClink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/

[yaya]

I have tried to upload pictures 4 times now, but it's telling me that I need to wait for approval. Sorry~~~:(

[yaya]

The tank is established and everything checked out to be 0 after cycle before we puts in the fish. The local breeder told us which was the male and which was the female. Since they have not been eating for 6 days now, there is really no fecal for the past 3 days. Before that, all the fecal was black and powdery. Starting today, I found yellowish transparent slime, few of them floating in the water and I am not sure what they are. It seems to me the female wants to mate, because she often swimming vertical along the back wall, but she gets angry when the male shows no interest, and she starts to peck on him to pick fights.

[yaya]

During the first 10 days, although I did not change water, but I test the water everyday. Ammonia and Nitrite is always 0, Nitrate at 5 ~ 10. Both of them were very happy during the 10 days. Always moved together and eating twice per day. However at that time, the PPM of my water is about 530, the local breeder told me to bring the PPM down to between 220 ~ 240. In order to do so, I took out 50%(15 gallons) of the tank water and added 15 gallons of RO back into the tank to even the PPM down to 275. This is what troubles me...... Everyone told me daily water change or every other day water change is what Discus likes, but I don't understand is why they were much happier during the 10 days when I did not change water, but got all stressed after I change water? I have been doing daily 50% water change (half treated tab and half RO) for the past 10 days, but every time when I change water, they get even more stressed. They will both get guard up and challenge each other and lock jaws........???

[David Rose]

Send your pictures to me and I'll post them for you. customerservice@igopro-online.com

[crimsonchin]

I bought a pair from my LFS and the same thing happened to me,sp I was recommended that I should introduced at least one more discus, so I got one more and everything got better over a few days. No more bullying and all the fish are eating and looking great. Maybe adding another will spread out the aggressive behavior and relief some stress on the other fish. Good luck

[David Rose]

For yaya:


http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/Separation1.jpg
Separation 1



http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/Separation2.jpg
Separation 2


http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/Female.jpg
Female 1


http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/Male1.jpg
Male 1


http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/Male2.jpg
Male 2


http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/YellowTransparentSlime.jpg
Yellow Transparent Slime

[David Rose]

After rereading your early posts, I see my response was not helpful.

First off, have you been monitoring your pH for fluctuations? Does the water used during water changes match what is in the tank? For instance, do you pre-mix your RO with tap in a storage barrel to make sure it matches the tank or do you add tap then RO right in the tank? It's possible that you are having shifts in pH that will stress and may even cause pH burn causing slime coat to shed.

Secondly, what is your source water: municipal or well water? Do you need to age your water to stabilize pH first for water changes?

Thirdly, is it the male's waste that has changed possibly due to higher stress or the females, or both?

In short, consistency is important and when there are fluctuations in TDS, pH, etc. it can cause stress and agitation.

[pcsb23]

I have tried to upload pictures 4 times now, but it's telling me that I need to wait for approval. Sorry~~~:(It does, and they will be very shortly. We have to do this with new members to protect the rest of the community from spammers etc. Once you get past a certain number of posts (15 I think) then you will be hot to trot.

[yaya]

Hi David, Thank you so much for your help with my discus issues and posting the pictures for me. Regarding to your questions:

1. We have a digital PH monitor hanging outside of the tank, so we can monitor the PH constantly. The PH has not been stable lately. Most of the time, our PH will drop 0.1 every 3 ~ 4 hours. So we have added baking soda in the water to maintain the DH and the KH level in the water. However, when we add the baking soda in the water, the situation will change for the opposite. The PH will increase about 0.1 every 3 ~ 4 hours after the PH is adjusted by the baking soda. We do re-mix the RO with tap in a storage barrel to make sure the PH is the same as the tank and the Temp is the same as the tank. I think you might be right that the stress has caused by PH fluctuation. Because during the first 10 days when I did not change the water, the PH was the same at 6.7. However, at that time, we had carbon and coral sand in the back sump of the bio cube. But the Local Breeder later told us we had to remover the carbon that came with the tank, because discus does not like carbon. Ever since we removed the carbon and the coral sand, the PH had been up and down.

2. Our source of the water is municipal, and we do age our water for 24 ~ 48 hours before use. We will always try to adjust the PH before we add it to the tank. Our municipal water PH is 8.2, but after it goes through the RO system, the PH is about 7.2. After we let the water run for about 24 hours, it will drop to about PH 7.0. If we continue to let it age for another 24 hours, the PH will drop more to about PH 6.4 ~ 6.8. I don’t understand why, but we do adjust the PH using baking soda if the PH is too low, or a solution the local breeder gave us to add to the water when PH is too high.

3. I don’t know if the yellow transparent stuff is from the male or the female, because I did not see it happen, when I saw it, it was already floating in the water.

They are separated now and not able to pick on each other, and the male seems to be recovering. However, I am still not able to get them to eat the frozen bloodworm. Any suggestion of what should I do? Do you also have some advise that you could give me about how to keep the PH consistent base on my current situation with the water?

Once again, thank you so much for your help and support, I really hope I can get through with this and save my discus.

[yaya]

By the way, do you know what kind of discus do I have?

[bettafish]

Are you sure your tank is large enough? Maybe they're cranky because they may not have enough room. :confused: