Red Turk has injured his eye

[Sea Hag]

While watching my fish last night my Red Turk made a mad dash behind some driftwood (was being chased by a BD) and after he came around the other side it looked like his cornea was "cracked". Today it still looks "cracked" but it's also starting to turn white.
Do I do daily water changes and hope for the best or pull him and treat him in QT? If I'm to QT him what meds should I be using for this type of injury? He's the male of a mated pair, I worry about separating him from his partner, or is that unnecessary worry on my part?
(Tank is a 100gl with eight 5" discus)

[William Palumbo]

Usually if your tank water is clean, it usually heals up on it's own...Bill

[Sea Hag]

Really? That would be great. Someone (not on this site) told me to pull him and treat him with either Triple Sulfa, Acriflavine or Kanamycin as this kind of injury always results in secondary infection. I was also told the other discus would pick on him but so far I see no evidence of that occurring.
Okay, pristine water is the remedy, for now.

[William Palumbo]

I have had eye injuries before, and never a problem. At the most I would add a bit of salt, but not really sure if that made a difference or not, so I just keep the water clean...Bill

[Sea Hag]

Thanks for the speedy response! I'm very worried about it and it's great to have someone confirm that I don't have to jump into QT & meds for this, just yet.

[William Palumbo]

Obviously, keep an eye on it to make sure it does not get worse. If so, THEN you'll have to treat with meds. Iv'e seen some pretty bad ones heal up nicely on it's own...Bill

[Eddie]

I have had eye injuries before, and never a problem. At the most I would add a bit of salt, but not really sure if that made a difference or not, so I just keep the water clean...Bill


I agree with Bill! ;)

Eddie

[nc0gnet0]

The question is on that large a tank, can the OP keep up with the neccesary water changes to keep the water pristine? Much easier to do 75% daily or 2x daily water changes in a 30 gallon QT tank then a 100 gallon community tank.

Also, it might not be a bad idea to dim the tank lights. Or get a discus eye patch ;)

[Jennie]

Don't see why not. I myself already do that as daily routine. Guess it depends on them upping theirs.
The question is on that large a tank, can the OP keep up with the neccesary water changes to keep the water pristine? Much easier to do 75% daily or 2x daily water changes in a 30 gallon QT tank then a 100 gallon community tank.

Also, it might not be a bad idea to dim the tank lights. Or get a discus eye patch ;)

[Sivasama]

I had this in my 125 and it cleared up in less than a week. It looked pretty bad to me but the fishgot better quickly. Maybe just do an extra water change this week. Salt would help with any possible infection.

Travis

[nc0gnet0]

Don't see why not. I myself already do that as daily routine. Guess it depends on them upping theirs

Don't get me wrong I am not disagreeing with anybody just further clarifying ;)

Terms like daily water change and "pristine" can be taken different ways by different people.

For instance a good daily 50% water change on a bare bottom tank leads to good water conditions.

A daily 10-20% water change on a tank with gravel etc......not so much. But both are examples of daily water changes.

And I would really dim the lights to cut back on the stress of the eye injury.

[Jennie]

Yep, I agree with dimming the lights. Good point.

[Sea Hag]

Dimming the lights, will do.
Daily water changes, of 50%, I already do. Should I do 75% instead?
(Water shortage here in California, but this doesn't apply to my Discus!)
Eye patch? I can't find one that will fit him. ;)
This morning the eye looked a little worse than yesterday.
Will post a pic shortly. IF I need to treat with meds will you suggest which one so I can have it on hand and be at the ready?

[nc0gnet0]

if your going to treat him I suggest a qt, if for no other reason that economics (costly to treat a 100 gallon tank). When you say it looks worse describe what you see.

[Sea Hag]

I want to take a pic but I've got the lights dimmed on the tank and really don't feel like turning them on and disrupting him. Trying to keep things low stress. The area over the cornea now looks a little larger and is starting to look fuzzy.
When I fed the tank all my discus ate except for him. He's staying off to the side of the tank where it is the darkest, away from the others.
Not really sure what I should do at this point...

[William Palumbo]

Most times, just like with us, wounds usually start to look worse before they start getting better...Bill

[Sea Hag]

I just took a pic- tank is dark so I used flash. I couldn't upload the pic as the file size is 186.4 KB and the max size allowed is 85 KB. I have no idea how to resize the pic. The pic is from a Canon Power Shot. Anyone know what I can do to get the pic loaded here??

[William Palumbo]

You'll have to download an image re-sizer software, or upload to a Photo Bucket type of account. There are some free software downloads in the photo section. It's a sticky...Bill

[Eddie]

if your going to treat him I suggest a qt, if for no other reason that economics (costly to treat a 100 gallon tank). When you say it looks worse describe what you see.


I agree, and most antibiotics will affect biofiltration so a QT would be best.

At this point, I'd try not to use an antibiotic. The eyes take quite a long time to heal.

As far as resizing, try to reduce the picture down to 480 x 240 and that will upload.

Eddie

[jduboscarf]

Haven't done this for a while, but if you're using Microsoft pic manager open pic, select edit pic from tool bar, side window pops up and select compress pic under change picture size and select web page and save, depending on pic should be under 85 if not less, then you can attach file. Whewww... hope that helps.

[Sea Hag]

Here are the two pics. Thank you for the help on how to resize & upload.
The first one is the eye yesterday afternoon, the second pic is from today, afternoon. Pics are approx. 24 hours apart. Not sure what my next step should be?

[Eddie]

I would put him in a QT at this point. Salt at 2tbsp per 10 gallons and use a broad spectrum antibiotic. Furan-2 is my first choice but you can use whatever you have available to you. Triple Sulfa works well, and so does Maracyn 2. With Furan -2, you need to keep the lights out. Keep the tank temp around 82F, good air and no need for any biofiltration, just an airstone.

It will take time to heal but I'd rather it doesn't get any worse or he will lose his eye.

All the best,

Eddie

[Sea Hag]

Thanks, Eddie. I'll go out tomorrow first thing and get Furan-2. I may have to drive aways to get it but if I can save his eye (heck, his life is what I'm worried about at this point) it's worth it. It's 9pm here and my discus have been put "to bed". I'll pull him tomorrow and hope like heck the net ends up on the side of him where his good eye is. I don't need to add insult to injury.
When you say salt, you mean regular salt, not Epsom? I have both Epsom and API Aquarium Salt on hand.
Which leads me to just one more question: While I'm at the LFS what meds should any responsible Discus keeper have on hand? I've only been keeping Discus for a year now and have plenty of Metro in the cabinet, but that's it.

[Sea Hag]

One last thing, how often to do a pwc on the QT tank?

[Tito]

I have had eye injuries before, and never a problem. At the most I would add a bit of salt, but not really sure if that made a difference or not, so I just keep the water clean...Bill

I dont know......

IF I had an eye injury I would go to the Doctor Bill! And I difinitely would not put salt in my eye!

[Eddie]

One last thing, how often to do a pwc on the QT tank?


No worries, regular table salt. The trick is to balance water quality with treatment duration. I'd go for every 2 days, but this depends on the tank size. You could also do them daily and just redose daily, its up to you. One thing with antibiotics, always redose prior to filling up the tank when you do water changes. ;)

[William Palumbo]

I dont know......

IF I had an eye injury I would go to the Doctor Bill! And I difinitely would not put salt in my eye!
Well Tito, you're not a Discus! And most human eye drops/meds are saline based...Bill

[Sea Hag]

Another question: I keep my QT cycled by keeping a colony of MTS (along with floating plants) in that tank. Does the particular med I'm going to use (Furan-2) for this eye treatment negatively effect snails? Should I remove the snails and floating plants prior to treating?

[ZX10R]

Another question: I keep my QT cycled by keeping a colony of MTS (along with floating plants) in that tank. Does the particular med I'm going to use (Furan-2) for this eye treatment negatively effect snails?

I have used Furan-2 with snails in my tank before and it didn't seem to affect them at all. The plants I have no idea about those sorry.

[Sea Hag]

Great, thanks for the info on the snails. I won't worry about picking them out of the tank.

[Tito]

Well Tito, you're not a Discus! And most human eye drops/meds are saline based...Bill

HEHE

[Sea Hag]

He's in QT and it was alot easier netting him out of the display than I thought it would be. Eddie, you say with Furan-2 to keep the lights out (which I'm doing) but the instructions on the package make no note of this. Curious as to why??

[Jennie]

That was incogneto that suggested this which was not in relation to Furan 2:
Quote:
Don't see why not. I myself already do that as daily routine. Guess it depends on them upping theirs
Don't get me wrong I am not disagreeing with anybody just further clarifying

Terms like daily water change and "pristine" can be taken different ways by different people.

For instance a good daily 50% water change on a bare bottom tank leads to good water conditions.

A daily 10-20% water change on a tank with gravel etc......not so much. But both are examples of daily water changes.

And I would really dim the lights to cut back on the stress of the eye injury.

[Sea Hag]

Actually, what I was referring to was Eddie post (#22) where he said, "With Furan -2, you need to keep the lights out". I took it to mean that if you are using Furan-2 that the tank lights need to be turned off, not dimmed. :confused:

[Jennie]

ah, I am treating mine with a med that makes them light sensitive. This may be the case with furan 2 as well. dimmed would be ok just not full spectrum as Eddie told me
Actually, what I was referring to was Eddie post (#22) where he said, "With Furan -2, you need to keep the lights out". I took it to mean that if you are using Furan-2 that the tank lights need to be turned off, not dimmed. :confused:

[yourhero5002]

One of my turquiose discus is in the same situation. its in furan2 right now. should i be feeding it while its on meds?

[Sea Hag]

One of my turquiose discus is in the same situation. its in furan2 right now. should i be feeding it while its on meds?

I'm glad you asked this question as it's the same one I was getting ready to ask.

[Jennie]

YES if it's hungry, feed him! :)
One of my turquiose discus is in the same situation. its in furan2 right now. should i be feeding it while its on meds?

[yourhero5002]

YES if it's hungry, feed him! :)

haha. Will do

[Eddie]

Furans are made less effective with light. Even the reps at API will tell you that its not required. They are a bunch of goons just trying to make sale. You'll be lucky to get in touch with an actual specialist in aquatic medicine.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa084



The nitrofurans, including nitrofurantoin, nitrofurazone, furanace, and furazolidone, are commonly used in the ornamental fish trade, but the FDA strictly forbids their use by producers of food fish. Nitrofurazone is specifically categorized as 'of high regulatory concern' by the FDA and should not be present at any facility where food species are raised.
Although nitrofurans are commonly used in bath treatments, they are probably most effective against superficial infections and, in at least one study, nitrofurazone was not readily absorbed into the body of either gilthead sea bream (Sparus aurata) or tilapia (Oreochromis mossambicus) in experimental trials (Colorni and Paperna, 1983). Within the group, furanace appears to be the most effective for use in bath treatments.
To achieve the most effective result when using a nitrofuran in a bath treatment, either some sort of cover or a darkened treatment location should be considered, as the nitrofurans can be inactivated by light. Nitrofurans as oral treatments may not be as effective as previously believed, although the proper pharmacokinetic research needs to be performed to verify this conclusion.

[Jennie]

is this the same with LB? or are fish just light sensitive, not to hijack thread, but wondering

[Eddie]

is this the same with LB? or are fish just light sensitive, not to hijack thread, but wondering

Sort of, but its more of a change in the chemical.



http://books.google.com/books?id=SAdDtT7YRRoC&lpg=PA291&ots=5zVPT29OXi&dq=trichlorfon%20and%20light&pg=PA291#v=onepage&q=trichlorfon%20and%20light&f=false

[Jennie]

Ok thanks. I don't know how I am going to do a WC without getting my hands in the water though. Might have to go get gloves or something. And not to mention I thought I'd be happy to have a few days off from WC's but not so. It's killing me to leave them in 3 day old water. Go figure

[Eddie]

Ok thanks. I don't know how I am going to do a WC without getting my hands in the water though. Might have to go get gloves or something. And not to mention I thought I'd be happy to have a few days off from WC's but not so. It's killing me to leave them in 3 day old water. Go figure

You are performing WC on the off days right? Also, I use reef gloves if there are chemicals in the water, very sturdy.

[Jennie]

first water change tomorrow night. last night was second treatment. today no treatment tomorrow water change
You are performing WC on the off days right? Also, I use reef gloves if there are chemicals in the water, very sturdy.

[Eddie]

first water change tomorrow night. last night was second treatment. today no tratment tomorrow water change

They'll be fine during the 3 treatment days. ;)

[Sea Hag]

You are performing WC on the off days right? Also, I use reef gloves if there are chemicals in the water, very sturdy.

Earlier I had put my hand in the QT tank to adjust the air stone since I didn't like where it was. I never even gave getting my hands wet a second thought. Are these chemicals that strong? Yikes.

[Jennie]

Mine is a pesticide that I'm using that causes Nerological damage or death to humans apparently. yours is antibacterial

[Sea Hag]

That's scary. What's wrong with your fish that such a heavy chemical needs to be used??

[Jennie]

flukes. salt and prazi pro didn't work. this stuff is though, which makes me verrrrry happy

[Sea Hag]

No worries, regular table salt. The trick is to balance water quality with treatment duration. I'd go for every 2 days, but this depends on the tank size. You could also do them daily and just redose daily, its up to you. One thing with antibiotics, always redose prior to filling up the tank when you do water changes. ;)

This morning he looks like he's miserable. Yesterday he was chilling mid-tank, this morning he is sitting on the bottom, dorsal fin is clamped down hard. He doesn't appear to be breathing heavily though. I can tell from looking at him it would be of no use to offer him food as I seriously doubt he'd eat it anyway.
I just checked the water params: ph 7.8, amm 0. nitrItes 0, nitrAtes 5. Air stone is running, tank temp is 82. Yesterday before I put him in the QT tank I did nearly a 98% water change, added salt and the Furan-2 and then put him in the tank. It's been 24 hours, med directions to say to dose again. I'm going to go ahead and do this now. Do you think I should do another pwc today even though params are right in line where they should be or should I wait until tomorrow??

[Jennie]

Sea Hag, its nighttime in japan where Eddie is. I would go ahead and redose if it's been 24 hours. use your judgement on waterchange

[Sea Hag]

Wait- You mean to tell me that Eddie sleeps? I thought he was on here 24/7, lol. Okay, I just dosed the tank and will decide on the pwc change later this evening. I'm also unsure about how to redose the salt. I used 2 teaspoons per 10 gl, I have no idea how much salt to put back in after a pwc. I'm sure it depends on how much water I'm changing out. Math and percentages were never my best subjects.

[Jennie]

If you dosed the tank do not do a wc for 24 hours. I'm sure you are fine. As far as salt goes during treatments, If you remove 50% of your water for example, then you removed 50% of your salt, therefore you add back 50%:)

PS yeah He sleeps at all the wrong times, LOL!

[aalbina]

PS yeah He sleeps at all the wrong times, LOL!

Well - we can hope for Permanent Change of Station (PCS) to a timezone WE all like... there is that whole 'needs of the Army' thing.... :D

Adam

[Eddie]

Hey guys, yup...sorry about the timezone thing. Also had to quickly leave my house again and staying in a temporary location. :(

As far as redosing, you did the right thing. There is no need to perform a water change yet. Only replace as much salt as you removed like DL mentioned. Tomorrow you will want to do a water change. Drain the tank, add the Furan-2 and fill the tank back up. Also, make sure you are premixing the salt in water, not just adding directly to the tank.

Eddie

[Sea Hag]

Yes, I am pre-mixing the salt before adding it to the tank. Question on tomorrow's w/c: When you say drain the tank am I to do a 100% w/c? If so, do I just scoop my fish into a bucket and set him off to the side while I do the w/c? I've never done a 100% w/c.

[Jennie]

hmmm, think we need to get Eddie a laptop and wifi if he's to be this mobile.(maybe an hourly wake up call service for those of us who need the doc!) Ok, on the WC you can change just 90% if you want. Less stress not to pull the fish from one tank to another IMO. add back 90% of the salt.
Yes, I am pre-mixing the salt before adding it to the tank. Question on tomorrow's w/c: When you say drain the tank am I to do a 100% w/c? If so, do I just scoop my fish into a bucket and set him off to the side while I do the w/c? I've never done a 100% w/c.

[Eddie]

hmmm, think we need to get Eddie a laptop and wifi if he's to be this mobile.(maybe an hourly wake up call service for those of us who need the doc!) Ok, on the WC you can change just 90% if you want. Less stress not to pull the fish from one tank to another IMO. add back 90% of the salt.

Right ;)

[Sea Hag]

If I shouldn't pull the fish from the tank that means I can only water change down to the bottom five inches of the tank, as that is the height of my discus. I don't want him lilting over to his side during this process, correct?
(I know, it's probably a stupid question but I felt the need to ask)

[Eddie]

If I shouldn't pull the fish from the tank that means I can only water change down to the bottom five inches of the tank, as that is the height of my discus. I don't want him lilting over to his side during this process, correct?
(I know, it's probably a stupid question but I felt the need to ask)


You can if you want, its up to you. Whatever makes you feel comfortable. ;)

[Sea Hag]

You can if you want, its up to you. Whatever makes you feel comfortable. ;)

Ahem...if it was you in this similar situation, what would you do?
Sorry that I'm insisting you hold my hand, this type of injury is all new to me.

[Eddie]

Ahem...if it was you in this similar situation, what would you do?
Sorry that I'm insisting you hold my hand, this type of injury is all new to me.

I would just lower down enough so the fish tilts slightly if I was you. If he tilts too far, he may scrape/damage his eye more if its on that side. ;)

[Sea Hag]

I would just lower down enough so the fish tilts slightly if I was you. If he tilts too far, he may scrape/damage his eye more if its on that side. ;)

Thank you. I'll do as you advise and if I'm lucky he'll be on his "good side" so I can get the largest w/c possible.

Normally I go to bed at 9pm, It's now 10:30...I had to stay awake long enough to get all the info I needed! :sleeping3:

Once again, thank you and thank you to everyone else who is helping me. I truly appreciate it!

[yourhero5002]

Today it still looks "cracked" but it's also starting to turn white.


How is your fish looking like now?
I think the whitish part is becoming slightly transparent again for my guy. (been a little over 24 hours since i put it in the furan 2).

i just did a water change with bare hands. will i die now???:waaa:

[Eddie]

Thank you. I'll do as you advise and if I'm lucky he'll be on his "good side" so I can get the largest w/c possible.

Normally I go to bed at 9pm, It's now 10:30...I had to stay awake long enough to get all the info I needed! :sleeping3:

Once again, thank you and thank you to everyone else who is helping me. I truly appreciate it!


You are welcome and if the fish is on the bad eye side, the little less water changed won't hurt him. ;)

[Eddie]

How is your fish looking like now?
I think the whitish part is becoming slightly transparent again for my guy. (been a little over 24 hours since i put it in the furan 2).

i just did a water change with bare hands. will i die now???:waaa:

No, Furan is not toxic like the prior conversation about Trichlorfon.

[Sea Hag]

How is your fish looking like now?
I think the whitish part is becoming slightly transparent again for my guy. (been a little over 24 hours since i put it in the furan 2).

i just did a water change with bare hands. will i die now???:waaa:

You're lucky! Becoming transparent is good, I would think. The eye on my guy is not looking good. I'm not giving up hope...

[Jennie]

pretty ugly

[Sea Hag]

pretty ugly

I know, have you ever seen an uglier eye injury? I'm pretty sure he's going to lose his eye but as long as I can save his life I will be happy.

[Jennie]

Either way he heals up, with or without the eye, it will take some time. Best to keep up the meds.

[Jennie]

Did this happen on driftwood or something else??

[Sea Hag]

Did this happen on driftwood or something else??

Driftwood. I watched him dart between the tank wall and the piece of driftwood and when he came around the other side I saw that his eye was all jacked up. I have since moved that piece of driftwood further away from the side of the tank so that it can't happen again.

I will continue with the meds and posting pics of his eye. I'm not sure how long to keep him in QT w/ the meds but based on the pics I post you'll be able to tell me when it's time to return him to the display. I really hope he pulls through. I have visions of that infected eye spreading to his brain.

[Jennie]

I would keep him isolated till the eye is healed one way or another. The furan 2 is supposed to be helping keep any other infections from starting, whether it does or not, you'll have to wait and see. It's going to take awhile. I'll be curious to see if he becomes picked on because of this though, an easy target to other fish??

[Eddie]

He will more than likely lose his eye. The Furan-2 will prevent secondary infection from getting out of control. He should survive but will only have one eye. :(

[Jennie]

And I just bought a bunch of driftwood. Lil worried now!

[Sea Hag]

And I just bought a bunch of driftwood. Lil worried now!

The only reason the driftwood caused this injury was because I had it way too close to the side of the tank. There was maybe less than an inch gap between the wood and the tank wall. He got hurt jetting through that slot as he was being chased. Be smarter than I and provide plenty of room so your Discus can't wedge themselves. I found out today why the BD was so frantic about chasing him and everyone else out of that corner, but that's another thread.

I was able to do about a 98% water change, as he was co-operative and was lying with his good eye down. He still isn't interested in food. Eddie, when you say he will lose his eye, does that mean it will just scar over or is the eye actually going to "fall" off??

Here's a picture of how the eye looks this afternoon:

[Jennie]

I think it will just kinda retreat/deflate/shrivel up for lack of better description.

[Jennie]

ahh i saw you have eggs.

[Sea Hag]

ahh i saw you have eggs.

Yes, and as of this morning I have wrigglers. I tried to take a picture but they are so dang small. So I now have seven discus in a 100gl tank. All five are using the left half of the tank, the pair have claimed the right side (and that stinking hunk of driftwood!) as theirs. The middle of the tank is bare, lol.

[Jennie]

Are u going to put up a divider of sorts?

[Sea Hag]

Are u going to put up a divider of sorts?

I hadn't thought of doing that. They aren't a "show" pair and I've read so much about the reasons for not raising and setting out into the world "sub" standard specimens. They may not even get to the free swimming stage. Pretty nuts that I started with Discus only because I've always wanted some and I end up with wrigglers. Really very exciting to see. :)
Right now my main focus is saving my Red Turk and getting him back to good health.

[Sea Hag]

This morning's pic. I think I see a hint of a slight improvment...wishful thinking on my part? I just tried offering him some live blackworms from a pipette (he has always taken them from a pipette) but he has no interest. I'd start feeling a whole lot better if he would eat.

[Sea Hag]

This morning's pic. He still has no interest in food. Bummer.

[Jennie]

Looks like it's gone down a little bit.

[Sea Hag]

Looks like it's gone down a little bit.

When I posted the pic I thought it looked a tad better than yesterday but then thought that was because that's what I wanted to see. Thanks for confirming!!

[Jennie]

Yeah but be nice if it was speedier so he'd eat something

[Sea Hag]

Yep, I agree. I forgot to ask but how long do I keep up with using the Furan-2? Is there a point where I should stop, say, after 8 treatments? The box says four doses, and then it can be repeated. I'm not going to pay any attention to the box since the box neglects to mention the non-use of lighting while medicating. I looked back over this thread and Eddie didn't tell me length/duration of treatment. Thanks!

[Jennie]

I would pm Bill palumbo as he's had experience with the eye injuries and I'd trust his advice. Hard to say when Eddie will be back around.

[Sea Hag]

I would pm Bill palumbo as he's had experience with the eye injuries and I'd trust his advice. Hard to say when Eddie will be back around.

I'll do just that. Thanks a bunch for your help! :)

[Jennie]

I think he posted some advice early on in this post:)

[Sea Hag]

I think he posted some advice early on in this post:)

Yes, he did, but that was advice for the use of salt. After seeing the pics is when Eddie said to start with the Furan-2. I'm not sure if Bill saw the pics. I sent Bill a PM, hope he gets it soon.

[Jennie]

He's been doing discus at least 20 years. You can trust him:)

[snyderguy]

I kind of had the same thing. My blue diamond ran into something and had a few scratches and looked like she damaged her eye. The next day, the eye was entirely white and it scared me but I didn't do anything drastic. The day after that, the white was nearly gone and she seems to be alright :]

[Jennie]

Yeah I think this one is ruptured though.

[William Palumbo]

I'm surprised it got that bad. Maybe at this point it needs to be physically(gently) cleaned, and perhaps some sort of topical medication/ointment on it. Not much to lose at this point...Bill

[Sea Hag]

I'm surprised it got that bad. Maybe at this point it needs to be physically(gently) cleaned, and perhaps some sort of topical medication/ointment on it. Not much to lose at this point...Bill


Bill- Would you gently clean it with a damp paper towel or something else? What type of topical to you recommed?
Thank you!

[William Palumbo]

I know people who have used Mercurochrome on cut finnage with good results. Not sure how/if would work on an eye. If were my fish, I would use a wet paper towel to wipe off gently what will come off, and apply Neosporin on it...Bill

[Sea Hag]

I know people who have used Mercurochrome on cut finnage with good results. Not sure how/if would work on an eye. If were my fish, I would use a wet paper towel to wipe off gently what will come off, and apply Neosporin on it...Bill

Perfect, thanks for the advice. I will do this tomorrow am. Wish me luck, I'm going to need it!

[Jennie]

Well Sea Hag, how'd it go?

[Sea Hag]

Well Sea Hag, how'd it go?

Thanks for asking! I gently rubbed the eye with a wet paper towel. It was hard as a rock and nothing came off of the eye. I dabbed with Neosporin. The fish barely objected. Not sure if it was helpful but if Bill suggest it I'm doing it. Also did a 90% w/c, added another dose of Furan and also added salt. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

[yourhero5002]

Ouch. I hope your discus gets better.

mine is still the same, no change. slightly foggy eyes.

[Sea Hag]

I believe the eye is looking much better. I have done a total of eight doses of Furan-2. I did a 90% w/c yesterday and added salt, but no meds. I'm very pelased with the progress so far. Based on the condition of the eye this morning should I do another round of meds? I hate to subject my fish to meds that are no longer required.

Picture as of 9/30-9am:

[Eddie]

I believe the eye is looking much better. I have done a total of eight doses of Furan-2. I did a 90% w/c yesterday and added salt, but no meds. I'm very pelased with the progress so far. Based on the condition of the eye this morning should I do another round of meds? I hate to subject my fish to meds that are no longer required.

Picture as of 9/30-9am:


No need to go another round, salt and clean water and it should mend over time. Eyes take a long time to heal. Looks much better than I thought it would be. Good work!

Eddie

[Jennie]

WOW Sea Hag! That's quite an improvement. :) Is he eating?

[Sea Hag]

Thanks! Without everyone's help I don't know what I would have done and my fish probably would have died from infection.
He still isn't eating but I'm not going to get too excited about that just yet. I'm assuming I leave him in QT until he is eating well, does that sound about right??

[Jennie]

Probably so since he needs salt treatments:)

[Sea Hag]

Probably so since he needs salt treatments:)

Thanks for pointing out the obvious!
Sometimes I just simply don't think. Duh. ;)

[Jennie]

Me either, just pulling stuff outta my hat!:D

[Eddie]

Me either, just pulling stuff outta my hat!:D

LOL, your hat or your - - -! :D ;)

[Jennie]

:Dhah!

[Eddie]

:Dhah!


;) Just teasing you

[Jennie]

what goes around:D

[Eddie]

what goes around:D

LOL, I'll be waiting! :D

[Jennie]

probably a pretty long time!

[Sea Hag]

A thought just occurred to me. I have Indian Almond leaves that I use in my Red Cherry Shrimp tank. Would there be any benefit in adding a few of these leaves to the QT tank that I'm treating my Red Turk in?? I read where it is beneficial when treating for bacterial infections but wanted to hear it from someone here first. Thanks!

[Eddie]

A thought just occurred to me. I have Indian Almond leaves that I use in my Red Cherry Shrimp tank. Would there be any benefit in adding a few of these leaves to the QT tank that I'm treating my Red Turk in?? I read where it is beneficial when treating for bacterial infections but wanted to hear it from someone here first. Thanks!

It can in a sense that it can bring down your PH a bit (depending on your source water) which does slow the proliferation of bacteria but time is all your fish needs. ;)

[Sea Hag]

It can in a sense that it can bring down your PH a bit (depending on your source water) which does slow the proliferation of bacteria but time is all your fish needs. ;)

Thanks for the prompt response Eddie! I didn't realize there was a correlation between PH value and the proliferation of bacteria. My ph is fine, for some reason I thought there might have been some magical herbal healing property of the leaves. There I go, trying to think again, lol.

[Eddie]

Thanks for the prompt response Eddie! I didn't realize there was a correlation between PH value and the proliferation of bacteria. My ph is fine, for some reason I thought there might have been some magical herbal healing property of the leaves. There I go, trying to think again, lol.

Well, I'm sure there are some properties to the leaves that can help but nothing eye opening. You can try it if you want, dont think it will hurt. Its just that maintaining pristine water (water changes) would keep the tannins from really doing anything.

[Sea Hag]

Exactly right, I'm doing w/c everyday so why waste the leaves. Thanks, Eddie.

[Sea Hag]

One more update, I'm happy as everything seems to be moving in the right direction! Just so no one has to scroll back through this thread, here's the pic I posted a few days ago and one from this afternoon. I know I'm not imagining it. He's getting better! :)

[Jennie]

poor thing

[Sea Hag]

I know, but remember when he looked like this??? I think he's doing so much better! He's even starting to act like he's feeling better too. He's not acting so "juky" when I'm doing his w/c.

[Jennie]

eating yet

[Sea Hag]

eating yet

Just one live California Bloodworm, but one is better than none, right??
I had the worms soaked in Zoe's and I know that isn't tasty as "plain".
Tomorrow I will offer "plain".

[Jennie]

update Sea Hag:)

[Sea Hag]

The eye looks much better. I've been doing 90% water changes every other day and treating with salt. I have kept the lights off the entire time. I have been putting a few live California black worms into the tank in the morning. They worms wiggle around, he pays no notice.
At the end of the day I use a turkey baster and suck the worms out.
I'm wondering if the reason he doesn't go for the worms is because he can't see them?? His tank is in the laundry room and there are no windows in that room. The only light he gets is when I come in to check on him, do tank maintenance, or laundry.
The other odd behavior that he has started is parking himself over the airstone and just hanging there in the bubbles. What does this mean? Water params in this tank are the same as the display.
When I turn off the airstone he slowly swims around the tank. When I turn the airstone back on he jets right over to it and parks himself there. Is this normal?? I find it very odd.

[Eddie]

The eye looks much better. I've been doing 90% water changes every other day and treating with salt. I have kept the lights off the entire time. I have been putting a few live California black worms into the tank in the morning. They worms wiggle around, he pays no notice.
At the end of the day I use a turkey baster and suck the worms out.
I'm wondering if the reason he doesn't go for the worms is because he can't see them?? His tank is in the laundry room and there are no windows in that room. The only light he gets is when I come in to check on him, do tank maintenance, or laundry.
The other odd behavior that he has started is parking himself over the airstone and just hanging there in the bubbles. What does this mean? Water params in this tank are the same as the display.
When I turn off the airstone he slowly swims around the tank. When I turn the airstone back on he jets right over to it and parks himself there. Is this normal?? I find it very odd.


Thats good to hear. Maybe he can't see them. Probably a good idea to use a cone feeder so he knows where the food is everytime.

Its nothing to worry about, the airstone thingy. I have a few that have always done this. Fish are happy and healthy. They probably just find the bubbles soothing. A little bubble bath action. LOL

[Sea Hag]

Thanks for the reminder...I have a cone on the shelf and have never used it. Do you think I should continue with the lights off??
I also want to do an update pic but it's night time here and I don't want to bother him.

[Eddie]

Thanks for the reminder...I have a cone on the shelf and have never used it. Do you think I should continue with the lights off??
I also want to do an update pic but it's night time here and I don't want to bother him.


You can start doing the normal light routine IMO.

[Sea Hag]

I'm soooo happy! Once I went back to the normal light routine (thanks Eddie) my Red Turk began eating like a pig. I know he can only see shadows from his right eye. A blackworm doesn't cast enough of a shadow. The worm can float right in front of that eye and no response from him. Once he sees it with his left eye, Bam!, he snaps it right up. When I wave my hand in front of the tank when only the right eye is facing me he responds by quickly switching sides in order to see what the movement was. Or at least that's how it appears to me. Thoughts??
I target feed in the display so I'm not worried or concerned for his welfare once I reintroduce him into the display tank. He will get his fair share of food once he's with the others.
So now the big question is: When is he ready to be returned to the display??

[Sea Hag]

This pic is from two days ago. I can't seem to get a good enough pic in the right light to show what my naked eye is seeing. In this pic the eye looks like it is protruding (it's not). When the fish is facing me "straight on" the eye that has been injured is "flatter" than his good eye. It's almost as if the cornea has been flattened. It looks "hardened". There is no fuzz to it, and I can cleary see his pupil but the iris around the pupil has a "crackly" look to it. I wish I was able to get a good clear shot. It's hard because when the bad eye is facing me, I lift the camera, he sees the shadow and quickly flips to face me with the good eye. I suppose I could put my hand in there and hold him to face the camera the way I want him but I really don't like stressing him in that way.

[Jennie]

has it stalled on healing. In otherwords do you think he's completely done.

[Sea Hag]

The reason I think that it's likely healed is that I haven't seen a change in the eye in four days. Up until four days ago I was noticing small changes daily. I assume that since he now has an appetite he's also feeling much better. I suppose the "smart" thing to do would be give it at least another week?
One more week, no changes, it's probably as good as it's going to get???
I don't want to jump the gun but then I don't want him to have to sit in QT longer than he needs to. Today marks 33 days in QT.

[Eddie]

Yeah, its not going to return to its normal condition. It is probably blind in that eye. :(

[Sea Hag]

Here are this morning's pics. The frontal view is a bit blurry but am posting it anyway as I'm hoping you'll be able to see the symmetry the eyes now have. At one point during the healing process of this injury his eye looked like a marble that had popped out from his eye socket.
He's eating very well and I can't say I've seen a change in the eye in seven days so am wondering if he can be returned to the display? I watched a bloodworm drift down between him and the side of the tank wall (his bad eye was facing the tank wall) and he turned to eat the worm. I'm sure his vision isn't crystal but it seems like he is seeing some movement, at least. Is there a surefire way to perform a vision test on a fish?? Show him a picture of a shark and see if he bolts?? ;)

[Eddie]

I'd say its fine but you'll have to watch him in the event he gets bullied or doesn't get to eat.

[Sea Hag]

Ok, sounds good. I'm not worried about him not getting enough to eat, as I target feed when needed. Not having any experience in the bully department what do I do if he starts getting bullied?? Remove him back to QT?
Does reintroducing him in the early evening after the tank lights are off (but while the ambient room light is still on) the best time to do this?? His tankmates will have been well fed and getting settled in for nighty night, but maybe this would be more stressful for him?

[Jennie]

Don't forget he is not the only male in the tank.

[Sea Hag]

Don't forget he is not the only male in the tank.

No, there is another male in the tank, my big fat promiscuous male BD, lol. He's the one who is STILL two timing between two females, a RT and a Cobalt. It was a problem but now they are happily "sharing" him. Weird.

[Jennie]

yes but two timer may not want to share his ladies with the turk. Might want to bully him

[Sea Hag]

Yikes, you're right. Men are funny that way. ;)

[Jennie]

well, you may have to give him his own tank and his own lady:p