Tank Substrate. (planted tank)

[JaVia]

So I am looking for personal tank photos, experience, stories, favorites and pros and cons.

SO I was considering doing a black substrate but then someone brought peppering to my attention. The more I thought about it the more I am second guessing my choice.

I was thinking sand. The issues I am having with that thought is, the sand possibly compacting and limiting root growth.

Right now in my planted tank I have the traditional clay flourite (reddish color). I do not mind the color, but I would love some different options.

Has anyone used any of eco-complete African cichlid sand?

I am picking up my tank tonight so I would like to get it set up so I can have it running while I am out of town to get it started.

Also if you post a picture, please tell me what kind of substrate you are using and how it does.

THANKS

[aquatic3]

If your doing a planted Discus tank you need to ask yourself what type of aqua cape are you wanting to support.

My blog discus this, but my preference is an esthetically pleasing Nature Style aqua cape and carefully selecting species that will thrive in Discus parameters.

All sand is not a good idea. No nutrient levels. All dark eco- complete is the other extreme. Not recommended. Combining and layering is key. You can accomplish this with filter sand or Home Depot child safe sand box sand. CaribSea is great. We use Torpedo Beach mixed with Home Depot. However, child substrate is too acid and usually has shells in it or rock that will greatly effect PH...do not use it.

Consider what other hardscape items you will want to use, such as drift wood or large rocks (careful rocks aren't acidic) such as whole rock for Cichlid tanks. If you want to use items like this, generaly you will need depth to support them in or on.

Consider aquascaping sloping (front to back) and tearing techniques using rocks. This way you can have rich dark plant substrate towards the back and light sand substrate in front for foreground wich requires less depth. A rule of thumb is 2" front raising to as high as 4" in back or even greater. My tank is 22" deep. I go from 1.75" to 8" and I'm using 5 different types of substrate totaling over 250 lbs. in a 140 gallon set up. Hope this provides some help. Check out the blog aquatic3.
:D:D:D:D

[h2osanity]

African cichlid or aragonite sand is buffered to provide a high level of hardness and a higher pH than normally beneficial for SA fish. Some plants have a hard time adapting to it as well.

Plain pool filter sand is better as long as it is chemically inert (a quartz based selenite sand rather than an aragonite sand). Sand won't become compacted if you don't have a too deep sand bed. You can also use burrowing invertebrate helpers like Malaysian Trumpet snails to help keep it so.

Plain pool sand is better used as a cap over something like plain clay cat litter for the health of your plants unless you want to go with ferns, mosses, anubias or other water column rooters.

[JaVia]

Wow, that is great info, I love the pictures of your tank. I do have a question for you, when you clean your tank do you have any issues with the different separated substrates mixing?

Now how easy is it to clean the sand and do you have any problems with the sand compacting and turning colors?

Right now my planted tank is all flourite. I have two pieces of the sinking driftwood in the middle of it and plants all around it. I hate mine compared to some of the things I have seen.

Thank goodness I get to start over with my new tank! I think I also really like the "river" look in the tanks, any feedback on that?

[Harriett]

Jennifer:
A couple notes here, and plz excuse the wordiness:
The color factor for the substrate has been gone over and I think you get that issue.

I have seen Caribsand used and it was splendid; but it is more costly than pool filter sand. Layering any substrate will look great the first week and at the end of a couple months you have no layers but a completely well mixed substrate, if you are planting and using a python to clean the tank.

After getting tired of a lightweight reddish pond clay type substrate about 8-9 years ago, I researched the options and chose pool filter sand with these qualities: pure silica--inert, $7. for a 50 lb bag, clean, comes in a couple shades from white to buff, the granuales are heavy enough that when you vacuum with a python, the substrate isn't sucked out of the tank very easily at all, but rather wants to sink back down, i.e. very easy to clean, it allows luscious root growth--tiny roots can travel, my plants have better roots than any substrate I have ever used--with fertilizer rich substrates, eventually they become inert anyhow if you use them long enough, and they are significantly more expensive to set up. Because the tank I was setting up was a 180g and I wanted plants ranging from big swords [big deep root systems] to small front of the tank stuff with small root systems, the sand bed went from 4" in the back to 1.5-2" in the front. 4" was too deep to keep clean and I took some out the first year and now the deepest is 3" which works fine. I set up the plantings with an eye towards maintanence of the tank and vacuuming the substrate. The only caveat I have found with pool sand is that you want to stir up the sand regularly to avoid anaerobic spots from forming which would eventually sour the tank--no big deal for me, since I thoroughly clean the substrate in the tank once a week anyhow. Yes, I have Malaysian trumpet snails [too many!] and they do a fine job, but I have settled on this level of maintenance and it works for me.

I have since set up 2 other planted tanks tanks and opted for pool sand again--I think it's great. At some point I will set up a biotope and do want to go with Caribsand for that because it is so elegant and fine in appearance.

I am now dedicated to using sand substrates----SO easy and so natural in appearance.

I fertilize as needed with a combination of little substrate fertilizer gumdrops as needed for swords--heavy feeders, and water column ferts for macro and micro ferts for the rest...when I am being diligent. Occasionally I will turn off the CO2, turn down the lights a bit, and go without ferts at all for periods of time ranging from a couple months and on up, when my life is too hectic to deal with the extra fooling around.

Best regards and I hope this helps!
Harriett

[JaVia]

I was actually thinking about pool sand, I do not know much about it or what looks like but I can figure that out I am sure....

Have you had any issues with using pool sand, or do you have any tips that you have picked up from using it?

I just looked up a few pictures of tanks with it, and I like it... I think that may be my best option right now...

Thanks!

[aquatic3]

Note: Pool sand is very fine. Great for tanks that have discus only. It should be mixed with a more granular grade. The home depot white sand box sand is almost the same color as CaribSea Torpedo Beach, which is $19 per 20 lbs. bag. Home Depot sells 50 lbs bag for $8. Do not use the fine grade sand. I only use it on top of more granular sand to establish more of a base under rock substrate. If you properly layers and grade your substrate it will not shift. If you use fine grade sand, it will shift as soon as you add water. Many Nature Style Aquariums use grading and sloping with no problems. Its all in preparation and proper placement. You can see pictures on my blog how this is done. :D:D:D:D

[Stussi613]

When I initially set up my tank I wanted a Discus/Plant tank, in that order...but I ended up going with Flourite substrate and began to regret it as soon as the tank was up and running and the fish were in it. Here are a few pics of that set up, as well as of the peppering on my PB based Discus.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4502580017_b6eb3c3e94.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2798/4502563977_3e5b4abe91.jpg

I recently moved to a new house and have a great friend that was willing to host my fish for me while I tore the tank down and re-did it. In the end I decided to go with a lighter background and pool filter sand instead of what you see above. I still don't have Discus in it, and I'm still trying to get the background to stop shifting and bubbling, but in all I think this is 120% better than what I had before.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4109/5019929733_f17ca84901.jpg

The only thing that I didn't do in this tank, which I am going to do when I get my 120G and start setting it up, is to used different substrate in different zones of the tank as some people have alluded to. I've read several articles and posts that talk about using rocks, or man made borders siliconed into the tank to separate different types of substrate and not wind up with sand and flourite mixed together. I plan to use flourite in the back and sand in the front to go for an overall "light" look, while still having a substrate optimized for growing plants.

I'm by no means an expert, but I'm learing the hard way :D

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Here is the link to my 95 gallon wave tank. I use Eco-Complete as my substrate and my plants are thriving and my fish are awesome looking in it.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=82073

I check water quality every third day and all is well. PH is stable at 7.0 with 100% RO.

As mentioned about the peppering, yes, my red melons are getting some, but this is a planted/discus tank. Is it a show piece? For me it is, as I sit for hours watching their playful banter within the plants swimming in and out. I get some very nice comments from others who see it a they like the uniqueness of the black substrate.

But the only way to figure out what you want is trial and error. My next tank will be a sand-based discus tank because I want to try having both light and dark substrates. But for a planted tank, let me say this, I have to prune my plants weekly as this substrate has an amazing root base and the plants are thriving even without CO2 right now.

Good luck on your decision, I am sure either way you go it will be unique to your taste!

[JaVia]

Thank you so much for all the input.

I love the tank, I got a 65 gallon tank last night, today I put 50 lbs of pool sand in and tomorrow I will put about another 50 lbs in. The tank looks great a little hazy but I think it will clear.

The only thing I am unsure about now is the filter that is included in it. They had a cascade 300 its not bad, but I am not sure about the filter media, there are no choices and its carbon based...

[Larry Bugg]

135 planted.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/New%20Project/DSC_0289.jpg

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/New%20Project/DSC_0293.jpg


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/New%20Project/DSC_0292.jpg

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx56/Bugman30040/New%20Project/DSC_0290.jpg

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Very nice tank Bugman. How long have you had it up and running?

Thanks,

[Larry Bugg]

Very nice tank Bugman. How long have you had it up and running?

Thanks,

Thanks Kraig. Only about 3 weeks. Thats why you see the rock sitting on the driftwood. Been doing planted tanks for years but never a planted discus tank. It has some filling in to do.

[JaVia]

Beautiful Tank!! I love it!

[aXio]

Very lovely tank larry =) I saw chad yesterday, his Discus are beautiful!

[robust discus]

Thanks Kraig. Only about 3 weeks. Thats why you see the rock sitting on the driftwood. Been doing planted tanks for years but never a planted discus tank. It has some filling in to do.

hey bugman can you tell me where you get the substrate. It look nice on your tank for plants to grow.

[waj8]

I think Fluorite is a great substrate. Not because it contains nutrients but because of it's texture, size and density. Plain sand will grow plants really well too but will take longer to get going. I personally don't care what the substrate looks like much as you can't really see the substrate in my tank. A more sparsely planted tank would be another matter though.

If I were you I would mix Fluorite with white 20 mesh pool filter sand. I would throw in some fish mulm from a filter cleaning in the bottom layer and a small amount of peat. You can also get some black sand blasting sand. By varying the mixture of white sand, black sand and Fluorite you can get different colors. I like equal parts of each.

[Larry Bugg]

hey bugman can you tell me where you get the substrate. It look nice on your tank for plants to grow.

This tank just has pool filter sand. I prefer it for Discus but in other tanks I have used different substrates. Flourite is a good choice. I have also used Eco complete and several others.

[DiscusOnly]

This tank just has pool filter sand. I prefer it for Discus but in other tanks I have used different substrates. Flourite is a good choice. I have also used Eco complete and several others.

Nice tank setup and love your choice of discus you put in there. It's going to be even nicer once the plants get filled up.

Van

[inmisawa]

Hey Bugman, great tank!

[rich_one]

Out of curiosity, is there any discus strain who's appearance would not adversely affected by dark colored substrate like black colorquartz and black background? I'm still switching mine out to sand a lighter background, but I was just curious.

-Rich

[victor_r]

here a pic of my first planted also have a 3D background

[Apistomaster]

Just choose one type of a substrate or blend of whatever you want then use it because any layered or isolated areas where you use different substrates will eventually be blended together between the sand vacuuming or fish activities.

I don't have much experience in keeping domestic Discus over different substrates but I do have more experience with wild Discus and they always look better over a light or white sand substrate. I tried Heckels over a dark substrate similar to the original EcoComplete and even though they were healthy their colors were dark over the dark gray substrate. I eventually changed over to Torpedo beach sand but it kills me to have to pay so much since I used to buy the same sand in 100# bags for about $7.00.
In any planted tank I always place the largest rooted plant species like the broad leaf Amazon Sword, Echindorous bleheri, in containers like Gladware reusable food storage containers and fill them with the expensive but really great plant growth substrate, Florabase and add timed release fertilizers in the bottom of the container, then a little of the FloraBase then while holding the plant in position under water, I finish adding the FloraBase. The technique is meant to cause no damage to the remaining roots. I always trim the roots back as well as some of the original leaves as these are normally the terrestrial leaf forms. Potting larger species makes it easy to rearrange them without disrupting the plants. As long as you add fertilizers deep into to the potting substrate the plants will grow very well despite becoming highly root bound. I use containers without any holes so exploratory roots do not propagate outside the potting container. I trim the containers so the height is close to the same as the surrounding substrate so the containers are not obvious.

[Harriett]

Thank you so much for all the input.

I love the tank, I got a 65 gallon tank last night, today I put 50 lbs of pool sand in and tomorrow I will put about another 50 lbs in. The tank looks great a little hazy but I think it will clear.

The only thing I am unsure about now is the filter that is included in it. They had a cascade 300 its not bad, but I am not sure about the filter media, there are no choices and its carbon based...


Jennifer, I have several Cascade filters and I REALLY like them. HOWEVER, I think a 300 is not much power for a 65g tank and I advise swapping that out for a higher powered--I have used a Cascade 1000 for a 75g very successfully. I think a 300 will be some trouble for the tank, IMO.
My best regards,
Harriett

[pcsb23]

Out of curiosity, is there any discus strain who's appearance would not adversely affected by dark colored substrate like black colorquartz and black background? I'm still switching mine out to sand a lighter background, but I was just curious.

-RichThe non pigeon based yellows and albinos look stunning against a dark background and substrate imo/e

[rich_one]

Darn... my most trusted source of discus is Hans, and he does not carry those strains. I can drive to his place, no shipping. So... looks like sand it is anyway then!

-Rich