New fish not eating white 'worm' near anus

[Matt0matic]

Got this group of fish on Sunday the 26th all of the rest are doing fine, eating well great color, no notable aliments.
DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

Not eating. Swollen anus with growth or worm.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

The fish appears well minus his anus, it has good color, not clamping it's fins. But, it is not eating, has a growth near it's anus that looks like it could be passing a worm, but it was not coming out centered from the anus which has caused me to believe it would be a growth. And today the growth is gone but the anus is swollen and it appears to have a white cotton like fuzz in/around it.


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

No treatments beyond an increase water changes.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

29 gallon- 1 adult at 7" and two juvis at 2" and 3". The smallest being the one with the problems.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

80% change daily, tank has been up for 3 months. And the water is not aged

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp ___86__

- ph __7.2(in tank) 6.8 (from tap)__

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __10__

- well water ____

- municipal water __X__

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

All fish new as of the 26th.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2344
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2343
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2342

[Jennie]

worms or internal injury?? That's fungus growth which is why I wonder if he has internal injury. Got a pic?

[Eddie]

How old are the juvies?

[Matt0matic]

How old are the juvies?

That I do not know, I will try to find out. My guess is 3-4 months. Eye to body size ratio the discus in question is older than the other larger juvie in the tank.

Are you thinking what I was, a lot of color for that size?

[Matt0matic]

Am I on the right track if I treat the tank with espom salt to try to help it pass w/e it is trying to pass, before moving on to medications?

[Eddie]

Well it looks like a breeding tube, so my thoughts were a very stunted fish thats mature enough for breeding. :o

[Matt0matic]

If we assume it is not a breeding tube, what would your course of action be? I have a pair of discus laying eggs in another tank at this moment, and their breeding tubes look nothing like this juvies vent.

[Eddie]

If we assume it is not a breeding tube, what would your course of action be? I have a pair of discus laying eggs in another tank at this moment, and their breeding tubes look nothing like this juvies vent.


Then a cyst of some sort. I can't see super clearly so a better picture of the vent area would be good.

[Matt0matic]

Well the actual camera took worse pictures than the iPhone. It kept focusing on the tank glass.

And newly developed symtoms- I say they look like threads, the girlfriend says they look like 'pencil tip sized berries" but red threads/berries have started to develop within the white fuzz around the juvies vent.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2354
In a last ditch effort of getting a decent picture I took the fish out of the water.

[Matt0matic]

How about callamanus worms? Would they cause the inflamation, swelling, and white fuzz. As of now the red we saw prior to taking the fish out of the water is gone, if it was a worm it could retreat back into the fish?

[Jennie]

The fuzz is probably fungus. So you are seeing improvement with salt?

[Matt0matic]

I have yet to try the epsom salt, only NaCl.

Wouldn't the fungus show some recession after 3 days of ~150% new water each day?

[Jennie]

NaCl?

[Matt0matic]

Sodium Chloride-table salt, sea salt, aquarium salt.

[Jennie]

ok. That should help clear up redness and fungus.

[Eddie]

How about callamanus worms? Would they cause the inflamation, swelling, and white fuzz. As of now the red we saw prior to taking the fish out of the water is gone, if it was a worm it could retreat back into the fish?


Yes, they can. If there is redness, it is probably is callamanus.

[Matt0matic]

Treat the tank or individual? Want to be 100% sure before I use meds, I've read to many gun-ho stories about how meds can end up being worse than the disease.

And thank you for all the help so far! If I start heading done the wrong path please point me toward the right way!

[Eddie]

Treat the tank or individual? Want to be 100% sure before I use meds, I've read to many gun-ho stories about how meds can end up being worse than the disease.

And thank you for all the help so far! If I start heading done the wrong path please point me toward the right way!

Camallanus do not have a direct life cycle so they do not spread as easily as Capillaria but I would treat the entire tank. I good deworming is never bad for fish IMO, especially if you've never wormed your fish before.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa091

If that fish is eating, I'd actually go with deworming flake from Angel Plus and deworm the whole group.

Eddie

[Matt0matic]

After one hour of treatment the fish in question is passing something. It is sold white with a large 'ball' at the end.

Pictures soon.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2356
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2355

[Eddie]

After one hour of treatment the fish in question is passing something. It is sold white with a large 'ball' at the end.

Pictures soon.


Definitely add some photos. What did you treat with?

[Matt0matic]

In the last minute or so you can visable notice the white 'worm/blob' being being passed, also his color is getting darker. Is there anything that can be done to ease the process?

[Matt0matic]

Definitely add some photos. What did you treat with?

Treated with Verimsol as per David's directions found on the forums, along with epsom salt @ 1.5 tsp/10gal, temp of86F.

So this is probably a product of the salt and not the dewormer as we cannot see any red worms being passed.

[Eddie]

I agree, probably the Epsom salt. You can up the Epsom to 2 tbsp per 10 gallons. What foods do you feed? I'm wondering if it was merely something blocking the intestines.

[Matt0matic]

I've had the fish in my tanks for one week now, with me they have been eating Bill's beef heart flake, and Al's freeze dried black worms.

I have not seen the fish in question eat while in my tank. I know the previous owner fed the all the fish beef heart as he gave some to me to take home, but I do not know what else was normally fed to them.

Should I do a few large water changes today to remove the dewormer?

[Eddie]

I've had the fish in my tanks for one week now, with me they have been eating Bill's beef heart flake, and Al's freeze dried black worms.

I have not seen the fish in question eat while in my tank. I know the previous owner fed the all the fish beef heart as he gave some to me to take home.

Should I do a few large water changes today to remove the dewormer?


No no, no need. Worming the fish will be good for it.

[Matt0matic]

Pictures of what was passed.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2358
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/picture.php?albumid=325&pictureid=2357

Any ideas?

[Eddie]

My guess is intestinal lining that built up and and the fish could not pass it. I'd throw the fish on a diet of frozen BS for several days to help clean'em out.

Eddie

[Matt0matic]

Will do, would going past 2tsp/10gallon of epsom salt be benefical or harmfull? As I see more of the white protruding from the vent. and he has not passed anything else but what is pictured in the previous post.

[Eddie]

Will do, would going past 2tsp/10gallon of epsom salt be benefical or harmfull? As I see more of the white protruding from the vent. and he has not passed anything else but what is pictured in the previous post.


No no, 2 tbsp is sufficient, even more than enough. ;) Just maintain it in the water.

[Jennie]

matto, be clear in your post you stated teaspoon and in Eddies it is tablespoon. Also if you do WC be sure tp replace ONLY what you remove in salt>
Will do, would going past 2tsp/10gallon of epsom salt be benefical or harmfull? As I see more of the white protruding from the vent. and he has not passed anything else but what is pictured in the previous post.

[Matt0matic]

matto, be clear in your post you stated teaspoon and in Eddies it is tablespoon. Also if you do WC be sure tp replace ONLY what you remove in salt>

Good catch, I'm dosing two teaspoons per 10 gallons.


No no, 2 tbsp is sufficient, even more than enough. ;) Just maintain it in the water.

Eddie, you use two tablespoons for simular situations? Or just a typo?


Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) is a laxitive. It will help constipated, bloated fish pass feces (poop). You use 1 or 2 teaspoons for each 10 gallons of tank water. Disolve the epsom salt in a cup of water and pour into tank. It should work in 2 to 4 hours. You can redose after 4 hours, but if it hasn't worked in 24 hours, it probably won't work at all.

This is where I found dosing amounts for the MgSO4.

[Eddie]

I use 2 tbsp, its not gonna hurt the fish. The way I see it, go big or go home. Bloat can be deadly and fast. ;)

[Matt0matic]

This morning the juvie still is not eating, it's vent is still swollen and it appears he still needs to pass something.

[Eddie]

This morning the juvie still is not eating, it's vent is still swollen and it appears he still needs to pass something.

Keep the Epsom going. It passed the stuff yesterday and hopefully it wall pass this stuff too. Fingers crossed buddy!

Eddie

[Matt0matic]

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s65/MATT0MATIC/DSCN0184.jpg

Here is the fish in question, a lot better than when this post was made. Thank you to all who helped.

[Eddie]

Good to hear and see!

[joshua 74]

great thread all. i dont feed my discus every Friday but every other day they get 2 feeds(adult discus) i was told to do this by my local breeder is this wise would it help prevent this??

[hedut]

Do you need WC every day when you good the treatment?