Finger Printing and background checks for parents

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
I just got a letter from my son's School informing us that they now require parents to be finger printed and subject to back ground checks before allowing them to be a chaperone on a field trip or school activity..... no info given on whose going to do the screening or what criteria is used.

Now I am all for safety and see the "purpose" in theory here, but It really goes against the grain... Law already requires sex offenders to register with police departments and thats public info...I see no reason for this additional policy.

So I am curious... whats it like where you live? Do you have to be finger printed and have a back ground check before you can go on a field trip with your son or daughter? Would you submit to this` requirement if they made it a policy?``

I've spent my whole life trying not to get arrested and finger printed:) and now in order to go on a field trip with my kids..I have to be finger printed and have a background check... and its not like I haven't grown up in this town, lived here my whole life and been on many field trips.

Sorry for the rant... but this really bothers me.

-al

[Jennie]

I would be for it considering not all sex offenders register. In light of events that occurred here in past few years with coaches/sex offenders slipping under the radar, part of the problem had been that schools didn't follow through with the background cks. Now what if you found out a sex offender had chaperoned an event your child was on? would you be lookig to rip someone's throat out that organized the event

[brewmaster15]

I've thought about that Jennie...and it does justify it ... in theory...but then why not just finger print and background check the whole town just in case. The thing is....once you give a right away...its gone. I know some would say Privacy is a thing of the past and in many ways thats true...but thats all the more reason to tenaciously hang on the little we have left.

I guess the way I see it is if the system did it job with the sex offenders in the first place and followed thru with their responsibilities it would not be necessary....so the system itself needs to be fixed there...finger printing parents isn't going to fix that.

-al

[Elite Aquaria]

Al,

My wife helps out with my son's field trips and she has never been asked for prints or a background check. Josh goes to a private Christian school so not sure if that makes a difference as compared with the county schools down here.

As some of you may know I work for Walgreens. In Broward county we were required to get finger printed/background checked before we went onto a school campus to give flu shots this year.

Personally, I would do it so I could spend some time with my son.

[Jennie]

Well, they do here. Anyone wanting a DL now has to submit a fingerprint. I guess if in these days, And my daughter was still in school, I would want to put her safety above my own personal feelings about invasion of privacy. I would do anything to keep her safe. What I'm saying is, if you were to chaperone and went through the process of fingerprinting, as a parent, I would feel so much better that you weren't a creep and were keeping a watchful eye over her. Privacy went out the door when computers came along:)

[Jennie]

my hometown! I miss the beach badly!
Al,

My wife helps out with my son's field trips and she has never been asked for prints or a background check. Josh goes to a private Christian school so not sure if that makes a difference as compared with the county schools down here.

As some of you may know I work for Walgreens. In Broward county we were required to get finger printed/background checked before we went onto a school campus to give flu shots this year.

Personally, I would do it so I could spend some time with my son.

[Jennie]

Al, I was also thinking these prints should only be obtained by county, state and govnmt entities. Ck out through your school, who they have running the cks.

[brewmaster15]

Al, I was also thinking these prints should only be obtained by county, state and govnmt entities. Ck out through your school, who they have running the cks.

The letter they sent home was as bare as most of discus tank bottoms in terms of details.. Not being one to shy from confrontation;) I've sent a letter to the school superintendent for details `among other things.:)

-al

[Jennie]

LOL, Al, you just pasted the red flag on your forehead! And I'm sure this letter was submitted in true Italian fashion!

[brewmaster15]

And I'm sure this letter was submitted in true Italian fashion!
Nope...Thats why I sent a letter....I had my better half read proof it..:)

-al

[Jennie]

:D Curious, does she feel the same way?

[brewmaster15]

:D Curious, does she feel the same way?
Shes a teacher and sees both viewpoints...I tend to be reactionary when ever anything has to do with my kids or something I feel strongly about...She holds a more even keel which helps calm the bad combo of Taurus and Italian in me.:D

-al

[Jennie]

Smart lady.:)

[mikeos]

I assume the school, county, supervisory and maintenance staff are already done?..... and their partners if they ever take them into work? and the fire brigade and paramedics, hospital staff that might come int o contact in the event of a problem?

this kind of think makes me madder than a very mad thing.... deal with the problem, dont create a smokescreen

[Jennie]

Anyone who works for state, govt, federal entities are already fingerprinted, this includes all courthouse employees, bank employees, schools, fire depts and so forth. All the school is doing is confirming that those in care of children are approved to do just that. I can tell you if something did happen for lack of security, parents would be screaming about why more secure measures weren't taken. Can't have it both ways.

[brewmaster15]

Anyone who works for state, govt, federal entities are already fingerprinted, this includes all courthouse employees, bank employees, schools, fire depts and so forth. All the school is doing is confirming that those in care of children are approved to do just that. I can tell you if something did happen for lack of security, parents would be screaming about why more secure measures weren't taken. Can't have it both ways.

Here comes the Italian;) So I guess everyone in the country should be fingerprinted incase they commit a crime that they haven't yet and to back check in case they have? I don't know...These finger prints may not be enough...I mean if the criminal were to wear gloves they could get away unidentified....so maybe everyone should also have a mouth swab so their DNA can be cataloged should they be wearing gloves and commit a crime ..

Sorry but to me its a slippery slope when you give up something out of the fear of what could happen if you don't.:(

-al

[Jennie]

LMAO, that's pretty mild! Here goes, It's not about you, it's about your child.
As for the school, it's about lawsuits, crimes and safety.

[Jennie]

there's always homeschooling.

[brewmaster15]

LMAO, that's pretty mild! Here goes, It's not about you, it's about your child.
As for the school, it's about lawsuits, crimes and safety.


You are right....It is about my children...... and what we lose today, they won't have the chance to decide if its worth the effort to protect as a right.. ...Look at how much has already been lost since you and I were children.

-Al

[roclement]

Here in NJ a full background check is required to be certified to work with kids however, there is no law that I know of that check parents/chaperones that have access to the children in the school or in trips, etc.

I can't tell you what is wright or wrong but in a simplistic point of view I guess you can avoid the whoe process by not going on the trip, not necessarely fair but at least it's a choice.

Tough position Al, spending time with the kids or sticking to your guns. Good luck making your decison.

Rodrigo

[scottthomas]

Here in Georgia, all parent or "community coaches" (and teachers of course)must have a criminal background check in order to be allowed to coach school sports. Over the years I have had several parents offer to be assistant coaches only to back out when they discover there will be a mandatory background check. My feeling is that many of these change their mind because there is something on their record. Of course, some may just feel that background checks go too far. I dont really see the difference between background checks for coaches and checks for chaparones. Schools are covering their butts and acts as a deterrent for some who really shouldnt be around kids. IMO

[brewmaster15]

Here in Georgia, all parent or "community coaches" (and teachers of course)must have a criminal background check in order to be allowed to coach school sports. Over the years I have had several parents offer to be assistant coaches only to back out when they discover there will be a mandatory background check. My feeling is that many of these change their mind because there is something on their record. Of course, some may just feel that background checks go too far. I dont really see the difference between background checks for coaches and checks for chaparones. Schools are covering their butts and acts as a deterrent for some who really shouldnt be around kids. IMO

Scott, just curious but does that policy include finger printing or just background checks..

also a question to all... just curious if anyone feels that EVERYONE should be fingerprinted and entered into a database?

-al

[Jennie]

fingerprints ok, dna not so sure. However since dna testing has been required on all criminals current and incoming prisoners, innocent people have been freed from a life of confinement they didn't deserve and crimes solved that otherwise would never have been.

[scottthomas]

Scott, just curious but does that policy include finger printing or just background checks..

also a question to all... just curious if anyone feels that EVERYONE should be fingerprinted and entered into a database?

-al

In the county where I teach, the sheriff's office fingerprints and does background checks. I believe that some counties fingerprint and others do not.

[Jennie]

Eventually, every county, city and state will go this way.

[calihawker]

They don't do that here, at least not that I'm aware of. That's a real tough one because while I value my privacy I sure would like to know who's watching my kid.
:o

[brewmaster15]

Anyone else?

-al

[mikeos]

i'm with you on this Al...another errosion of civil liberties while doing absolutely nothing to deal with the reall issues.

[Jennie]

are you still stewing on this? Did you here back from the school.

[brewmaster15]

I'm with you on this Al...another errosion of civil liberties while doing absolutely nothing to deal with the reall issues. Thanks Mike for the comments!




are you still stewing on this? Did you here back from the school.
Yep, still stewing... haven't heard back yet...but its been the weekend and todays a holiday...so probably won't hear anything for a bit.

I was hoping to hear from alot more people on their thoughts here regarding fingerprinting and the actual policies in place where they live, and what they would do if faced with this...:(

Jennie,
I'll leave you with a quote from a "slightly" famous figure from This countries past...



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."Benjamin Franklin (1755)

-al

[Yboat]

They don't do that here, at least not that I'm aware of. That's a real tough one because while I value my privacy I sure would like to know who's watching my kid.
:o

CA state law says they do. Its the life scan system. Most school districts have a machine in thier office. If not the local LEOs do.

Just remember, if you have to send it to more then one place. you need to have the paper work filled out to have it sent there.

State law says agencys can't share that info. you can have it sent to as many places as you want at the time of the scan. If you need it sent some place else even 5 seconds later you have to be rescaned.


Having coached a jr wrestling team and reffed for the CIF, I get scaned atleast once a year, if not several times depending on when I have to be scaned.

[Jennie]

I'd be happy with piece of mind!:) I'm sorry Al, I see your POV on this but things aren't the same as when we were children, Or maybe they are, except now they use forensics in an effort to prevent these crimes from taking place.
You probably live in a rural area and don't see much of these things happening, which makes me wonder why they are pushing the fingerprint thing anyway, but imagine being someplace like chicago,miami or LA, and everyday you pick up the paper and right on the front page, another child was molested at a school or church, daycare???

[brewmaster15]

I'd be happy with piece of mind!:) I'm sorry Al, I see your POV on this but things aren't the same as when we were children, Or maybe they are, except now they use forensics in an effort to prevent these crimes from taking place.
You probably live in a rural area and don't see much of these things happening, which makes me wonder why they are pushing the fingerprint thing anyway, but imagine being someplace like chicago,miami or LA, and everyday you pick up the paper and right on the front page, another child was molested at a school or church, daycare???

Jennie,
I understand your point of view... but I think many may place way too much faith in finger prints and background checks preventing child crimes...
Most child crimes are done by family and people outside the family but trusted by the child.... as few as 10 % is by strangers...

http://www.darkness2light.org/knowabout/statistics_2.asp




30-40% of victims are abused by a family member. (2, 44, 76)
Another 50% are abused by someone outside of the family whom they know and trust.
Approximately 40% are abused by older or larger children whom they know. (1, 44)
Therefore, only 10% are abused by strangers.



more to support those numbers.....
http://www.childhelp.org/pages/statistics

These crimes to children are horrendous...but statistically the threat isn't from strangers with a record.

-al

[gravjack]

At my age, probably shouldn't add my two cents worth, but here goes. Six children, 13 grandchildren, and several days ago, our second great-grandchild was born. Worked in law enforcement all my adult life, until retirement, so have some experience with these issues. With that background, let me say that I lean toward agreeing with Al's concerns. However, there are so many ways that your privacy is invaded these days that it is unlikely that a set of fingerprints will make it worse. I fully understand the "keep the kids safe" reasoning, but my experience leads me to conclude such rules and regulations are often as much about protecting the institution from exposure if something goes wrong as they are about keeping children safe.

Keep in mind that there will never be complete safety for any of us. No matter who we are, or where we live. New criminals appear every day and they will never show up on a background check until they commit some serious crime.

All that and I guess the school district will do as they see fit.

John

[Jennie]

Agreed, as in my statement about lawsuits and ins. I'm pretty sure the school puts those to things in perspective first before child safety

[DiscusOnly]

Al-

I've been to a few of my kids field trip and was never asked to submit any sort of fingerprint or background check. Would I have a problem with this if I was requested? YES because I want to know how this would be used and who has that information. One should hestitate but not because they have something to hide but rather in this darn electronic age, you don't want the information to fall on the wrong hands.

Is there an option to go on the trip but not chaperone other kids? That's what I would inquire with the school.

Did they tell you the specific with the type of background checks?

Van

[brewmaster15]

Van,
They really gave very little detail...which is one reason why I contacted the superintendent .. to make matters more questionable...My son is in 2nd grade and the principal sent home the letter from his office...my daughter is in 4th and goes to another school in the system...Her school has not sent the letter home...so on top of the issue I have with the privacy... The "policy" is not uniform in the schools here, the letter did not even come from the superintendent, and it gave zip details...which to me tells me alot and makes me question all the aspects of what I see as a very poor policy.

-al

[DiscusOnly]

Al-

You should pipl the pricinpal and get all the info on him :D I do it with CL people who come to my home when I sell stuff online.

[Jennie]

Al. Another thought. When I use to rent out the lower level of my house, I would do a background ck through the police station for a small fee. What if you did this on yourself and delivered the report to the school, minus the fingerprint?? That's if u have issues with the school having your print to share with others.

[mikeos]

so is this a school thing, or a law enforcement thing... ie is the data handled by police/law enforcement agencies (of whatever type)?

if not the latter then it is pointless and worthless as well as being an infringement.....


if they cannot share the info then it is not worth having......

so other than to "look like we are doing something" what is its purpose? are they actually going to pass the prints to a federal agency for a nationwide check or just file away under "parent.... suspected paedophile until proven differently".....?

[kaceyo]

I would not do it. As Al and others pointed out, it wouldn't make any impact at all on the people who commit these crimes. I don't see parent chaperones as being a threat in the first place and comparing them to coaches, clergy teachers etc, those who work daily as gaurdiens of other peoples children, is way off the mark.
IMO it's as John (gravjack) pointed out. They are doing it to protect themselves should an incident occur, and to make it look like they are doing something about the problem.
We are already losing our individual rights so quickly that we will soon have no recourse to any action taken by those in power.
Lets not give our rights to privacy away at the whim of the local schoolboard.
I raised two, ehhem... wonderful kids, and am very concerned about childrens safety. I wouldn't consider fingerprinting the parent chaperones of students in my kids classroom as a move forward in child safety.

[moik]

I do construction projects on about 6-10 different schools every year..All my men must have a Child Abuse,,Criminal Backround Check,,Drug Testing and Finger printing done,plus sometimes must get and have a photo ID tag on them also..They must all be cleared/aproved with certificates before they can work on these projects..Sad to say that they have to be done over and over for different school districts sometimes,,some school disctricts will not accept a recent valid certificate from another disctrict.....There are processing fees that I have to pay for this to be done too ...There is alot more involved than you would think,especially with school districts,insurance companies,workers comp,unions,and more 2nd. /3rd. parties..As you drive around your area and see large/small scale school projects being done,there is alot of unseen work being done just to put employees on the job,,before any work is even being started.. Sad to say that most of my work is being done while the kids are on summer vacation..More BS and paper work to do ,,so someone can have a job and cost taxpayers more money..They are good ideas that sometimes go to far,but are the rules that must be adhered to..

[scottishbloke]

I am also a teacher in Georgia, and I can say that although increased protection of kids is a legitimate aspect of the aforementioned practice of fingerprinting & background checking parents, chaperones, and substitute teachers, doing these things is simply (in my professional opinion) a part of the school district's primary defense against litigious parents. I don't think that erosion of personal privacy and freedom even really comes into consideration where county lawyers are concerned- they just do whatever they must to avoid lawsuits and cover their butts in every way possible. This is especially true in the area of special ed, where the considerable paperwork involved has become a nightmare exercise in litigation avoidance, and all aspects of the job are now micromanaged and scrutinized to the extent that many educators are leaving the field, potentially including myself.

Al- I understand totally that you feel being fingerprinted and checked out is both an erosion of your freedoms and a bit over the top, considering you are the father of the student going on the trip and not a family friend or other relative where there might actually be some legitimate concerns. However, the school district, unfortunately, just doesn't care what you think- you either submit to the checks or not be allowed to chaperone as far as they are concerned. Sad, but true in this world of money-sucking, ambulance-chasing lawyers.

Just my perspective,

scottishbloke

[Sharkbait]

I'm a teacher here in British Columbia, and at our school we do our best to bring teachers along as chaperones. There's not a lot of money to begin with, so field trips are normally few and far between, and when we do have them, they're pretty small that we can solely use teachers as chaperones.

The art department has a trip to Europe every year, and we still use just teachers. It keeps things simpler that way.

[Jennie]

thats why I think he should provide his own report from the PD to the school. the reports generally don't show the prints

[John_Nicholson]

I have not read all of the responses but it is not something that we do here where I live. I am inline with Al on this one. Now my record is as clean as it can be but I feel that one of the biggest problems that we are currently facing is the lose of individual rights for the "good of the people"......And I will be damned that I am going to give up any of the freedoms that I can hang on too. It is amazing to me how people think this somehow make the world safer. I got news for you people today are basically the same that they were hundreds of years ago. The basic crime rates have not really changed. The only thing that has changed is our perception of the world. Lets look at a school shooting. 200 years ago if it happened in Florida chances are no one here in Texas would have ever known about it. Now if it happens we know in a matter of minutes.

Now I am all for taking care of children. What I am trying to say is that laws and policies are made for honest people. Crooks and perverts always break them and the rules now in place simple give parents a false sense of security. All it does is remove rights that honest people currently have. It has zero affect on criminals.

-john

[DiscusOnly]

thats why I think he should provide his own report from the PD to the school. the reports generally don't show the prints

The problem is that if one were to obtain a background check from the FBI, it could take up to 12 weeks so the question goes. Is the school requesting the info just for them to keep on file or is every submission will be processed. It's one thing to have a policy in place across the board but a generic letter requesting private information like this is not appropriate.

I am no lawyer but without a policy in place, I don't see how the school has any ground to stand on if one was to fight it. Yes there are requirements that the school district may have on background checks on all their employees but this principal is obviously thinking that s/he can just extend that to parents.

[Scribbles]

I have mixed feelings on this one. I hate the idea of losing my rights but on the other hand if I had children I would support any policy to help keep them safe. In theory it is about the kids. In reality it is about the school trying to keep it's liabilities to a minimum in case there were ever any alligations of any criminal activity. Just because someone isn't in the system doesn't mean that they are safe though.

Chris

[Rod]

Hi Al,

Here in Oz we need a Blue Card to work with children. This includes everyone coming into contact with the kids at schools, including support staff and contractors performing work. I'm not certain parents need to have this, i have chaperoned on field trips with my kids class, and i never needed one. But that was over 10 years ago now, and it could well have changed since. I don't think fingerprints are involved, but a full background check is performed.

http://www.ccypcg.qld.gov.au/employment/index.html

What is a blue card?

Blue cards are issued by the Commission for Children and Young People and Child Guardian once it has carried out the blue card check to see if a person is eligible to work in the areas of child-related work covered by the Commission’s Act. If a person is eligible, they are issued a positive notice letter and a blue card.

What is the blue card check?

The blue card check, also known as the 'Working with Children Check, is a national check that assesses:

* any charge or conviction for an offence (even if no conviction was recorded)
* child protection prohibition orders (whether a person is a respondent or subject to an application)
* disqualification orders
* if a person is subject to reporting obligations under the Child Protection (Offender Reporting) Act 2004 or Dangerous Prisoners (Sexual Offenders) Act 2003
* disciplinary information held by certain professional organisations including teachers, child care licensees, foster carers, nurses, midwives and certain health practitioners); and
* information that the Police Commissioner provides in relation to police investigations into allegations of serious child-related sexual offences, even if no charges were laid.

A person whose application is approved is issued with a positive notice letter and a blue card.

If a person’s application is refused, they are issued with a negative notice which prohibits them from carrying on a business or providing child-related activities in the categories regulated by the Commission’s Act.

What is an exemption card?

If you are a registered teacher or police officer in Queensland, you will no longer apply for a blue card and should instead apply for an exemption card when providing regulated services to children which are outside of your professional duties. Please click here for more information, including a flow chart outlining how and when to apply for an exemption card.

[mikeos]

now that serves some purpose...actually using the data to check up on someone....

[mikeos]

Just had a case in the news today... female teacher, passed all the "checks", just been convicted of sexual relationships with 2 underage boys from the place she worked at....

now, what exactly is the purpose of thse "checks" again?:bandana:

[Jennie]

to prevent current peds from entering facilities/functions where children gather. This fingerprint check is not a 100 percent full proof deterent, so don't perceive it to be black or white.

[brewmaster15]

to prevent current peds from entering facilities/functions where children gather.

If the system in place for pedophiles worked as it should...there already is a system in place for that. Sex offenders are already supposed to be tracked and accounted for.

and in case anyone missed this from my previous posts...


http://www.darkness2light.org/knowab...atistics_2.asp (http://www.darkness2light.org/knowabout/statistics_2.asp)

Quote:


30-40% of victims are abused by a family member. (2, 44, 76)
Another 50% are abused by someone outside of the family whom they know and trust.
Approximately 40% are abused by older or larger children whom they know. (1, 44)
Therefore, only 10% are abused by strangers.


more to support those numbers.....
http://www.childhelp.org/pages/statistics

These crimes to children are horrendous...but statistically the threat isn't from strangers with a record.... by the numbers above... fingerprints might deter less than 10% of the aggressors..

The basic problem is not going to be fixed or affected positively by fingerprint checks...

But hey...its only the loss of one small civil right...I know doesn't seem like much.. just a drop of water...problem is the cumulative effect of drops of water are known to erode something as hard as solid rock over time....think about it.

-al

[John_Nicholson]

You know Al you really kill these discussions when you start bringing all of these FACTS into it....... Don't you know it is easier for people to cope with this stuff when they think it is always a stranger somewhere in a dark alley? It makes it easier for them to sleep at night when they have the misguided notion that laws somehow make them safe?

-john

[Jennie]

I hate to say this Al, as I believe in what the school is doing,but I do agree with you in that statistics post. A previous neighbor in his eighties(now deceased) was convicted of molesting his grandchild on his second wife's side. This was not his first conviction, and the second wife had NO idea he had these crimes in his past. She chose to stay with him??? For the remainder of his life a sign by law had to be posted on his door indicating that a sexual offender lived there. In another case of a client of mine, her child was molested by an older neighborhood teenage boy. So yes I do agree with the statistics you posted. That Said, What's your solution?

[Jennie]

I think it just boils down to parents being present and becoming more involved in their children's activities.

[John_Nicholson]

I think it just boils down to parents being present and becoming more involved in their children's activities.

I do agree with this. Way to many parents expect the schools to raise their children. It is the parents job to be involved in the child's life. As far as a perfect solution there is none. There are people in this world that are just flawed. You can't fix them. Child molesters fall into this category. In my opinion the only thing you can do is to kill them plain and simply. They will never be safe to be in society and I have no desire to pay their prison bills while they live out their life in prison.

Odd that we are discussing this....got a memo from the school yesterday about the 4 th grade going to Austin this spring. Wife and I are both going. Involvement is key.

-john

[brewmaster15]

John,
I hear you!!:)

Jennie,


Ithink it just boils down to parents being present and becoming more involved in their children's activities. absolutely but this requirement does nothing to encourage that...instead it potentially drives parents like me away.


That Said, What's your solution?

I don't have all those answers Jennie , as its a screwed up society that made those statistics... Solutions would have to start with fixing the system in place for those convicted of child crimes. I also think that much of the problem is inherent in a system where many parents are not able to be home or do not wish to be real parents...and instead entrust their children to others to raise as they either want to work , or have to work. Theres a biological reason children take over 18 years to mature and evolved with a 2 parent system....biologically parents were meant to be there watching them during that time frame......In nature an immature animal that is left unguarded is probably going to be harmed or worse.

Parents need to be Parents and be very involved in their child's lives...and sadly culture, society, and economics don't allow for that in most cases.

What I do know is that fingerprinting parents isn't the answer...its just a way to legally insure the school at our civil rights expense...and its a royal sham when they try to cast it in any other light.
-al

[mikeos]

. There are people in this world that are just flawed. You can't fix them. Child molesters fall into this category. In my opinion the only thing you can do is to kill them plain and simply. They will never be safe to be in society and I have no desire to pay their prison bills while they live out their life in prison.



Very un PC John.....:smash::smash::smash:


My sentiments exactly though... some people forfeit all their rights by their actions.

[calihawker]

As I stated earlier in the thread, I'm 50/50 on this one and only because 1, I have young children and 2, I experienced the threat of the unknown first hand. When we first moved here to the country we made friends with a local family. The father, a former pastor, worked part time for one of my companies, they came to our house for dinner many times and we considered them good friends. And then the Megans law list came out and it turns out this guy, someone I would have left my kids with, was convicted of LNL with a child under 14. You just never know.

I believe the solution to be one of punishment for offenders. Crimes against children should be severe and swift. Like john says, you can't fix them.

[Yboat]

Topics like this hit close to home for me.

I adopted my cousin that was was molsted violently by a TEACHER. when she was in 1st grade. She is now 13. Trust me, there is no worse crime then sexual abuse of a child.

So I am all for preventing perverts from getting anywhere near kids. The current sex offender deal is crap. While alot need to be on the list, there are alot that don't. I have a friend thats on the list for statutory rape, They were both still in HS, she was 17, he was 18. The parents walked in on them. The parents pressed charges, the DA had no choice but to file. Kind of funny, they have been married now for 10 years and have 3 kids.

Of corse all this could go away if they just let the family deal with it... you know point them out then turn around. I have no doubt that when the scum bag that attacked my cousin gets out of jail, he won't ever have to worry about registering as a sex offender.

[YSS]

These crimes to children are horrendous...but statistically the threat isn't from strangers with a record.... by the numbers above... fingerprints might deter less than 10% of the aggressors..

-al

So are you suggesting it's not worth trying to deter 10% aggressors because how you feel towards background checks and finger prints? If it deters 1%, its definitely worth it. I don't want to take that chance with my children.

By the way, I had to get my background investigated to continue to coach my son's soccer team. I gladly obliged. If I had to get my fingerprints taken, I would have gladly done it also.

[brewmaster15]

So are you suggesting it's not worth trying to deter 10% aggressors because how you feel towards background checks and finger prints? If it deters 1%, its definitely worth it. I don't want to take that chance with my children.

By the way, I had to get my background investigated to continue to coach my son's soccer team. I gladly obliged. If I had to get my fingerprints taken, I would have gladly done it also.

I'm glad for you....but I think you have far more faith in the system than I do...and far more tolerance for losses of civil rights...to each is own.

But Actually I don't think that the finger printing would even catch 1 %....I thinks its nothing more than a way to protect the school legally and gives parents like you a false sense of security.

regards,
al

[Jennie]

you are correct AL, lawsuits, insrance and child safety in that order.

[scottthomas]

But Actually I don't think that the finger printing would even catch 1 %....I thinks its nothing more than a way to protect the school legally and gives parents like you a false sense of security.


I think thats exactly it! Schools can say, "hey, we did everything possible so its not our fault." if something should happen.

Fingerprinting in this circumstance creates a far greater chance of violating the civil liberties of law abiding citizens than it does of preventing any crime or injury to children. Who really believes that fingerprinting will make our kids safe from pedophiles?

[Jennie]

I can see the headlines in the Pa. daily paper. "MAD ITALIAN TAKES ON SCHOOL DISTRICT"

[John_Nicholson]

I'm glad for you....but I think you have far more faith in the system than I do...and far more tolerance for losses of civil rights...to each is own.

But Actually I don't think that the finger printing would even catch 1 %....I thinks its nothing more than a way to protect the school legally and gives parents like you a false sense of security.

regards,
al

Agree 100%.

-john

[YSS]

I think its more about detering the potential criminal than catching someone. Whatever it is, I hope none of you nay sayers are in the line of work protecting us or our children.

[mikeos]

I think its more about detering the potential criminal than catching someone. Whatever it is, I hope none of you nay sayers are in the line of work protecting us or our children.


Why is that?

because we say the current system does not work & we would like something that does?

Or because you don't want to be reminded that the current system does not work & would rather see smoke & fireworks than action on the real issues?

Laws do not deter criminals... the hint is in the name.... criminal=does not care less what the law or society actually says or thinks. ( most laws are just to keep lawmakers & lawyers in $$$$$, well it certainly looks that way;))

Most places seem to have the attitude that if a registered offender actually applies for such a job they get told no.... rather than charging them with intent ....:mad:

I used to work for a school when all this stuff came in.. and the ancillary staff were not required to have checks until several years after teachers were....& we had more access to kids than most of the teaching staff...given that we had legit reasons to be in the changing rooms, dorms etc.... Reason???

[Eddie]

I think its more about detering the potential criminal than catching someone. Whatever it is, I hope none of you nay sayers are in the line of work protecting us or our children.

I actually would say nay and I do happen to be in that line of work. ;)

[brewmaster15]

I think its more about detering the potential criminal than catching someone. Whatever it is, I hope none of you nay sayers are in the line of work protecting us or our children.

How does fingerprinting deter a crime that has not happened yet? In theory you might think it does..in practice.... It really doesn't. and if the person in question were already in the system , which is alls a fingerprint would tell them...then the system should have already be aware of the pedophile as its supposed to by law....So the fingerprinting of parents serves no purpose as far the safety of children on a field trip....and if you think it does than I am sorry ...I seriously disgree... but I understand how some may want to find security in as safeguard...I just think its a false feeling of security.

The data availible shows where the real threat is. If you really want to safeguard your children you should start with taking a close look at where that 90% + of abuse comes from... family, friends, trusted people....but no one wants to think their uncle joe or Aunt Sally would do something like that! better to worry about the smallest source of threat....the stranger. I wonder the reaction these family and friends would have should a parent request them to undergo a fingerprinting and background check incase they are pedophiles?



I hope none of you nay sayers are in the line of work protecting us or our children. Actually I am. I consider myself to be the one thats Primary responsibility is protecting my children, I am their parent .. and without going into my private details why..I do believe I have been a stellar one.

I believe being an involved parent is the best deterent for bad things happening to kids, not depending on the system. The best deterent for a crime to not happen is network of good parents participating and watching...in short ..its parents being parents.

al

[YSS]

If someone has never done anything wrong and does not have a record, of course, background checks and finger printing would not find anything. But it's about getting the bad guys with record away from our kids. I don't understand why anyone thinks doing background checks and finger printing is a bad idea. So, you want a guy with a record be allowed to be around our kids and we know nothing about it?

I heard a lot of that this doesn't work, but not too many what else we could do to deter the bad guys other than being good parents. So the solution is be good parents, do nothing to get the bad guys away from our kids and hope nothing bad happens to our kids when we are not with them? Unfortunately, we can't watch over our kids 24 X 7. I feel much more comfortable knowing that back ground checks have been done on people that are around my kids. No, I am not saying that is all we need to do, but it's definitely a measure we can take to reduce risks.

[John_Nicholson]

For all of you people that chose to believe that LAWS are what protect you I have one question....

Do we have a drug issue here in this country? The answer would be yes and my response would be "but how is that possible? It is against the law". Another law or another policy will not protect you children. What protects children are adults that really care and try to always do the right thing.

Here is a question for you....Lets say that it was not against the law to molest children. Would you stand by and let it happens because it was not against the law or would you stop it? You would stop it because it is morally wrong to allow it to happen. The law would have now affect on your actions in that case, just like the law has no affect on the actions of criminals. You can try to build a better mouse trap, but at least some of the rats always get though.

Laws are like locks they only apply to honest people.

-john

[DiscusOnly]

If someone has never done anything wrong and does not have a record, of course, background checks and finger printing would not find anything. But it's about getting the bad guys with record away from our kids. I don't understand why anyone thinks doing background checks and finger printing is a bad idea. So, you want a guy with a record be allowed to be around our kids and we know nothing about it?

I heard a lot of that this doesn't work, but not too many what else we could do to deter the bad guys other than being good parents. So the solution is be good parents, do nothing to get the bad guys away from our kids and hope nothing bad happens to our kids when we are not with them? Unfortunately, we can't watch over our kids 24 X 7. I feel much more comfortable knowing that back ground checks have been done on people that are around my kids. No, I am not saying that is all we need to do, but it's definitely a measure we can take to reduce risks.


I am all for requiring background checks for those who work with children. I don't think anyone is arguing against that. What I am against is asking a parent to do with for a day trip if they want to be chaperone.

[brewmaster15]

If someone has never done anything wrong and does not have a record, of course, background checks and finger printing would not find anything. But it's about getting the bad guys with record away from our kids. I don't understand why anyone thinks doing background checks and finger printing is a bad idea. So, you want a guy with a record be allowed to be around our kids and we know nothing about it?

I heard a lot of that this doesn't work, but not too many what else we could do to deter the bad guys other than being good parents. So the solution is be good parents, do nothing to get the bad guys away from our kids and hope nothing bad happens to our kids when we are not with them? Unfortunately, we can't watch over our kids 24 X 7. I feel much more comfortable knowing that back ground checks have been done on people that are around my kids. No, I am not saying that is all we need to do, but it's definitely a measure we can take to reduce risks.

I'm sorry but I just don't think you are getting my point... Theres already a law in effect that covers this... Its called Megan's law. ... and if the law enforcement,legal system, and schools that you feel are supposed to be protecting your children are doing their job properly and adhering to this law... you would not need the false security of finger printing parents for a field trip.



http://www.megans-law.net/includes/orange_arrow.gif (http://www.megans-law.net/)Megan's Law, Sex Offenders Nationwide

:: Registered Sex Offenders Resources


Go To States (http://www.megans-law.net/Megans-Law-States.asp#States) Megan's Law (http://www.megans-law.net/Megans-Law.asp) which addresses sex offenders (http://www.megans-law.net/Sex-Offenders.asp) and child molesters was signed by President Clinton on May 17, 1996. Megan's Law was much needed, despite Washington State's 1990 Comunity Protection Act which included America's first law authorizing public notification when dangerous sex offenders are released into the comunity. It was the brutal 1994 rape and murder of seven-year-old Megan Kanka (http://www.megans-law.net/Megan-Kanka.asp) by a previously Registered Sex Offenders that prompted the public demand for broad based community notification. Megan's Law requires the following two components:
Sex Offender Registration

The 1994 Jacob Wetterling Act requires the States to register sex offenders registered of sex crimes against children. Sex offender registration laws are necessary because:


Sex offenders (http://www.megans-law.net/Sex-Offenders.asp) pose a high risk of re-offending after release from custody;

Protecting the public from sex offenders is a primary governmental interest;

The privacy interests of persons convicted of sex offenses are less important than the government’s interest in public safety;

Release of certain information about sex offenders to public agencies and the general public will assist in protecting the public safety.


Megan's Law & Sex Offender Comunity Notification


Megan’s Law (http://www.megans-law.net/) allows the States discretion to establish criteria for disclosure, but compels them to make private and personal information on registered sex offenders available to the public. Community notification:



Assists law enforcement in investigations;

Establishes legal grounds to hold known sex offenders;

Deters sex offenders (http://www.megans-law.net/Sex-Offenders.asp) from committing new sex offenses;

Offers citizens information they can use to protect children from Registered Sex Offenders, child molesters and victimization.


To view Registered Sex Offenders, Megan's Law, child abuse molesters information and resources to see what form of notification your state provides, please click on your state.
Alabama (http://www.megans-law.net/Alabama-Megans-Law.asp)Alaska (http://www.megans-law.net/Alaska-Megans-Law.asp)Arizona (http://www.megans-law.net/Arizona-Megans-Law.asp)Arkansas (http://www.megans-law.net/Arkansas-Megans-Law.asp)California (http://www.megans-law.net/California-Megans-Law.asp)Colorado (http://www.megans-law.net/Colorado-Megans-Law.asp)Connecticut (http://www.megans-law.net/Connecticut-Megans-Law.asp)Delaware (http://www.megans-law.net/Delaware-Megans-Law.asp)Florida (http://www.megans-law.net/Florida-Megans-Law.asp)Georgia (http://www.megans-law.net/Georgia-Megans-Law.asp)Hawaii (http://www.megans-law.net/Hawaii-Megans-Law.asp)Idaho (http://www.megans-law.net/Idaho-Megans-Law.asp)Illinois (http://www.megans-law.net/Illinois-Megans-Law.asp)Indiana (http://www.megans-law.net/Indiana-Megans-Law.asp)Iowa (http://www.megans-law.net/Iowa-Megans-Law.asp)Kansas (http://www.megans-law.net/Kansas-Megans-Law.asp)Kentucky
(http://www.megans-law.net/Kentucky-Megans-Law.asp) Louisiana (http://www.megans-law.net/Louisiana-Megans-Law.asp)Maine (http://www.megans-law.net/Maine-Megans-Law.asp)Maryland (http://www.megans-law.net/Maryland-Megans-Law.asp)Massachusetts (http://www.megans-law.net/Massachusetts-Megans-Law.asp)Michigan (http://www.megans-law.net/Michigan-Megans-Law.asp)Minnesota (http://www.megans-law.net/Minnesota-Megans-Law.asp)Mississippi (http://www.megans-law.net/Mississippi-Megans-Law.asp)Missouri (http://www.megans-law.net/Missouri-Megans-Law.asp)Montana (http://www.megans-law.net/Montana-Megans-Law.asp)Nebraska (http://www.megans-law.net/Nebraska-Megans-Law.asp)Nevada (http://www.megans-law.net/Nevada-Megans-Law.asp)New Hampshire (http://www.megans-law.net/New-Hampshire-Megans-Law.asp)New Jersey (http://www.megans-law.net/New-Jersey-Megans-Law.asp)New Mexico (http://www.megans-law.net/New-Mexico-Megans-Law.asp)New York (http://www.megans-law.net/New-York-Megans-Law.asp)North Carolina (http://www.megans-law.net/North-Carolina-Megans-Law.asp)North Dakota
(http://www.megans-law.net/North-Dakota-Megans-Law.asp) Ohio (http://www.megans-law.net/Ohio-Megans-Law.asp)Oklahoma (http://www.megans-law.net/Oklahoma-Megans-Law.asp)Oregon (http://www.megans-law.net/Oregon-Megans-Law.asp)Pennsylvania (http://www.megans-law.net/Pennsylvania-Megans-Law.asp)Rhode Island (http://www.megans-law.net/Rhode-Island-Megans-Law.asp)South Carolina (http://www.megans-law.net/South-Carolina-Megans-Law.asp)South Dakota (http://www.megans-law.net/South-Dakota-Megans-Law.asp)Tennessee (http://www.megans-law.net/Tennessee-Megans-Law.asp)Texas (http://www.megans-law.net/Texas-Megans-Law.asp)Utah (http://www.megans-law.net/Utah-Megans-Law.asp)Vermont (http://www.megans-law.net/Vermont-Megans-Law.asp)Virginia (http://www.megans-law.net/Virginia-Megans-Law.asp)Washington (http://www.megans-law.net/Washington-Megans-Law.asp)Washington D.C. (http://www.megans-law.net/Washington-DC-Megans-Law.asp)West Virginia (http://www.megans-law.net/West-Virginia-Megans-Law.asp)Wisconsin (http://www.megans-law.net/Wisconsin-Megans-Law.asp)Wyoming (http://www.megans-law.net/Wyoming-Megans-Law.asp)

Megan's Law (http://www.megans-law.net/), Registered Sex Offenders (http://www.megans-law.net/)

[Jennie]

it is taking it a bit far.
I am all for requiring background checks for those who work with children. I don't think anyone is arguing against that. What I am against is asking a parent to do with for a day trip if they want to be chaperone.

[mikeos]

I have a solution... but it is known to cause cancer in CA,:p and neither politically correct, "progressive" ( a word now meaning do what the hell you like & we'll make sure you are OK), liberal... a word I think has absolutely no place whatsoever in these matters, or pleasant... but I can guarentee 100% no re-offending and a serious threat for those inclined to "casual investigation"

Personally I think 99% of those committing these sorts of crimes get off far too lightly, & that includes those who will never leave a corrective facility except in a box.....