Wipe Down

[Tito]

Please excuse my ignorance.

Wiping down Discus tanks. Hear about this a lot.

Lately - it's finally made sense to me that in a breeding tank - the slime on the Discus would stick to everything. Now for the interesting part of my thread...my questions/statements....LOL

First - does this slime cause ammonia?

Second - in a community tank - would this slime still exist?

Third - once a tank is cycled - you will always have a layer of invisible slime - some people call it muck, I've heard it called all kinds of things. This is not exclusive to Discus tanks - this muck exist in all tanks. I'm certain that the slime in all aquariums we feel with our hands is a part of the biological fauna. That being said - why would a community Discus tank need a wipe down? For clarity here in question 3 - ( I am definitely insinuating that perhaps Discus breeding slime and regular tank slime is being mixed in as the same by Discus hobbyist - in a community tank setting).

Fourth - does anyone have a really good explanation - I mean a really good one please - somehow scientific preferred - instead of how you feel about it - but a good explanation how this slime someone harms Discus health, growth, etc... Not widthstanding a breeding tank with fry. I can partially unsderstand why a 29 gallon tank fool of Discus slime all over the place may not be the best environment for small fry.

Ok - I'll start with these four fisrt.

This should be interesting! LOL

In my breeder tank I have seen the breeding slime floating around. I have not seen it in my community tank - unless a pair had eggs hatch out - very rare.

[John_Nicholson]

Well here are my thought on it......

First I seldom wipe down my tanks. Usually only when the algae gets to think to see though...

Second anything that is organic will break down, so yes it can reduce water quality.

Third I doubt it causes more of a problem then regular water changes would handle.

And yep I realize that my first, second, and third have nothing to do your yours...

-john

[Chad Hughes]

Although I do not have answers to your questions, here are my observations....

In my planted display tanks, no slime. Ever.

In bare bottom tanks in the hatchery, slime all the time.

Hmmm.....

LOL!

[Larry Bugg]

Like John, I only wipe down my tanks when the algae is very noticeable.

[Eddie]

I'm anal....I wipe every side and everything....every day. :D

[roclement]

I wipe down once a week, if for no other reason just to keep the glass clean.

Rod

[Eddie]

I wipe down once a week, if for no other reason just to keep the glass clean.

Rod


Yeah, thats mainly why I do it. If the fish swim too close to the glass, they start skidding because its too clean. LOL

[Jennie]

i agree with his self portrayal.:D
I'm anal....I wipe every side and everything....every day. :D

[scottthomas]

I also wipe down the glass regularly. I think that some of it at least is algae. I do get more slime on bb tanks that have lights on most of the day. I have noticed far less slime in tanks that are planted or have dim to infrequent lighting. Either way, if you believe it is biological, then it seems that it could be great breeding ground for bacteria. There is no doubt in my mind from personal experience that it is necessary to wipe down frequently for health of fry. Consequently it ccant hurt to wipe down for the larger fish. JMO

[fishorama]

I wipe down my discus tank once or twice a week. My discus tank seems to grow more diatoms & algae than my other tanks in spite of almost daily water changes but also have a whitish film too. I don't mind stuff on the glass as long as I can see the fish, I leave it for the micro flora & fauna that my fish might snack on, I've seen discus pick at the crypt leaves' "film" of diatoms etc.

I thought it was just a beneficial biofilm, part of the nitification process.
One of my favorite articles explains biofilms in general, I find them fascinating http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/biofilms/1

But Dr Tim (of BioSpira & bio-wheel fame) suggests keeping the aquarium nitrifying biofilms thin by frequent cleaning of filter media & the aquarium glass "stuff" is less a factor in nitrification than I'd thought. Here's a discussion on Aquaria Central http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235460&highlight=biofilms Dr Tim's graph is #10 ( yes, I'm fishorama there too) Still a food source for some fish.

Really, I think it's from all the high protein foods we feed & the discus natural "extra sliminess"...now if only I'd clean the outside of my tanks more often :o

[scottthomas]

Really, I think it's from all the high protein foods we feed & the discus natural "extra sliminess"...now if only I'd clean the outside of my tanks more often I agree.

[Tito]

Thanks for all the replies folks - nice to see the opinions and some of you guys are FUNNY! lol

For the most part it seems like a general consensus on the community tanks and the breeders.

I am finding myself needing to wipe down the breeder tank for sure! The show tank seems to just look good without much work.:D

[nc0gnet0]

I am more concerned with the top rim at the waters edge then I am the rest of the tank, this I wipe down with every water change, the rest only when needed which is seldom with pleco's in my tanks.

[Scribbles]

I wipe down all of the surfaces in the tank everytime I do a water change. Nothing scientific about it I just figure that it keeps down any bacteria or other organisms that are stuck to it. I also don't have to deal with cleaning off any build up later.

Chris

[Tito]

I''m assuming that when we all say "wipre down" that we are talking about using something like an algea scrubber.

ALso I've nitoced in my breeder that is I scrub all the glass walls especially the bottom I end up with a LOT of debri in the water column. Pretty much forces me to empty out the tank if I want to try to catch most of the debri.


Any similar experiences?

[scottthomas]

I wipe down my tanks with a paper towel every water change. The paper towel really grabs the slime and algae. Since I do it frequently, there is never heavy build up that needs to be scrubbed.

[nc0gnet0]

I usually just use an algea scubber followed by TP then flush.

[flyman767]

I wipe down everything, everytime, with every water change. I've used paper towels in the past but they tend to shred and fall apart. Here is what I use:

[Jennie]

I have to wipe mine everyday. There's a film over the glass that bugs me. Other than a couple fake plants and sand, there is nothing in the tank but discus
Thanks for all the replies folks - nice to see the opinions and some of you guys are FUNNY! lol

For the most part it seems like a general consensus on the community tanks and the breeders.

I am finding myself needing to wipe down the breeder tank for sure! The show tank seems to just look good without much work.:D

[jimg]

IME everything has to be done according to each tanks conditions,feeding etc.
I do not like the idea of cleaning everything every day. In a tank that has a lot of fry fed bbs or other high quantities of food that is too much for them to fully consume, then yes wipe downs and large wc daily,but they have to be kept up that way because there will not be enough bacteria colonies in the tank,water column or filter(if cleaned too much).If you stop wipe downs and wc and continue feedings, you can expect a rise in pollution because there MAY not be enough bacteria to keep up.
In most of my fry/juvenile tanks that are not fed bbs I only do 25-30% wc everyday. Every third day I will wipe down the inside of the tank and do a 70%. once a week I will lightly rinse filter foam, then next week the sponge filter. this way I always try to have a good population of bacteria.
A lot of the slime people see is actually good bacteria.
Again there is no scientific facts that show any gain from extra large wc's. but some feel comfortable doing it and some don't. I have tried every way and came to be happy with what I do and my fish seem a lot healthier.
But then again this works for me based on what I feed and my water conditions and discus, some others it may not.

[tcyiu]

Other than obstructing your view, the bio-film on the glass is no different than the bacteria on your filter media. I wipe down so I can see my fish more clearly.

All living systems will have a mix of microbial organisms. Most are benign (i.e. don't do harm), and many are good (think nitrogen cycle). Most bacteria do not cause disease. I just don't understand the animosity towards bacteria in general.

I'm not trying pick on anyone in particular. It's just that I see lots of posts referring the need to rid aquariums of bacteria. This is neither feasible or desirable.

Tim

[jimg]

Other than obstructing your view, the bio-film on the glass is no different than the bacteria on your filter media. I wipe down so I can see my fish more clearly.

All living systems will have a mix of microbial organisms. Most are benign (i.e. don't do harm), and many are good (think nitrogen cycle). Most bacteria do not cause disease. I just don't understand the animosity towards bacteria in general.

I'm not trying pick on anyone in particular. It's just that I see lots of posts referring the need to rid aquariums of bacteria. This is neither feasible or desirable.

Tim

+1

[Jennie]

I only do mine because I like a crystal clean view, my sponge filters are capable of handling everything else. I figure if I'm doing large wc's everyday anyway, instead of me sitting there and watching it drain, I'll be productive and wipe the glass down as well. :) My sponges are rinsed 1x a week maybe a little longer than that.

[scottthomas]

Other than obstructing your view, the bio-film on the glass is no different than the bacteria on your filter media. I wipe down so I can see my fish more clearly.

All living systems will have a mix of microbial organisms. Most are benign (i.e. don't do harm), and many are good (think nitrogen cycle). Most bacteria do not cause disease. I just don't understand the animosity towards bacteria in general.

I'm not trying pick on anyone in particular. It's just that I see lots of posts referring the need to rid aquariums of bacteria. This is neither feasible or desirable.

Tim

I havent seen any (let alone "lots") of posts that really refer to the need of "ridding" aquariums of bacteria or a desire to destroy all bacteria. I am sure almost everyone understands that there are mostly beneficial bacteria which are essential to keeping any aquarium. Likewise, there are surely some potentially harmful bacteria present in most aquariums. They thrive in the same warm temps our discus enjoy. That is why we often hear of outbreaks of fin rot, swim bladder disease, popeye, tb, columnaris, dropsy, etc. etc. etc. The list of bacterial diseases is very long. The nitrogen cycle hardly applies and bacteria on the glass is not doing much for keeping a tank cycled. I think is appropriate to try and keep a clean aquarium within reason. Mostly for asthetic reasons but also for the health of fish.

[pinoysport]

I''m assuming that when we all say "wipre down" that we are talking about using something like an algea scrubber.

ALso I've nitoced in my breeder that is I scrub all the glass walls especially the bottom I end up with a LOT of debri in the water column. Pretty much forces me to empty out the tank if I want to try to catch most of the debri.


Any similar experiences?

For my grow out / community BB tanks no... but for my breeder tanks thats a whole nother story.

my breeder tanks have alot of alge. I wipe down and then do the wc ... the water is very dirty after the wipe downs. I usually change every 1-2 days.
I finally threw some plecos in the tanks.. i hope that helps.

one thing that i see for sure is when the fry attach if im not on the water changes the parents produce so much slime the tanks water conditions go bad REALLY fast ....im talking hours. I have lost two batches this way with the parents getting sick after the water gets bad....
im using hob and a sponge filter..... still not enough ...

[jimg]

I havent seen any (let alone "lots") of posts that really refer to the need of "ridding" aquariums of bacteria or a desire to destroy all bacteria. I am sure almost everyone understands that there are mostly beneficial bacteria which are essential to keeping any aquarium. Likewise, there are surely some potentially harmful bacteria present in most aquariums. They thrive in the same warm temps our discus enjoy. That is why we often hear of outbreaks of fin rot, swim bladder disease, popeye, tb, columnaris, dropsy, etc. etc. etc. The list of bacterial diseases is very long. The nitrogen cycle hardly applies and bacteria on the glass is not doing much for keeping a tank cycled. I think is appropriate to try and keep a clean aquarium within reason. Mostly for asthetic reasons but also for the health of fish.

when many people post about wiping down everything in their tanks and cleaning filter sponges daily they are essentially IME ridding valuable bacterial colonies away for no reason example rotifers and other microscopic life feed on bacteria which keeps a balanced eco system, take away some and others can explode.
I have started new aquariums with fish less cycling and a few times when it cycled and soon after I wiped the glass down I had setbacks. If there is a substrate on the bottom, surface area of the substrate made up for the area of glass.
I do a lot of wipe downs and cleaning in few week old fry tanks, only because so many people do I feel guilty if I don't!

[Jhhnn]

Even though I do almost daily large water changes, I don't wipe down the inside of the tanks until it starts to bug me. It's pretty much ad hoc, when the water level is low at midpoint in a water change. Usually the next day I make a point of squeezing out the sponges and sponge prefilters in a bucket of tank water.

Once firmly established, it's basically impossible to squeeze out all of the fine gook and bacteria that way... there seems to be plenty left to multiply and grow...

I'm very interested in the Kaldness media type of moving bed filters and also algae filters... Might work great and be really easy to clean...

[Justice]

I wipe once a week! :D

[Jennie]

+1 John. I even put my sponges through lb treatment for 18 days, expected to see a die off in BAC. but no.
Even though I do almost daily large water changes, I don't wipe down the inside of the tanks until it starts to bug me. It's pretty much ad hoc, when the water level is low at midpoint in a water change. Usually the next day I make a point of squeezing out the sponges and sponge prefilters in a bucket of tank water.

Once firmly established, it's basically impossible to squeeze out all of the fine gook and bacteria that way... there seems to be plenty left to multiply and grow...

I'm very interested in the Kaldness media type of moving bed filters and also algae filters... Might work great and be really easy to clean...

[fishorama]

If you read the links in my earlier post you'd have seen the good & bad bacteria (plus viruses etc) can wall themselves off in the biofilms, protected from antibiotics & live to return. But Dr Tim, who has done studies on what really happens, says the tank walls don't have all that much nitifying bacteria (the good stuff) because of the light. It's more "parasitic bacteria" & algae so we don't need to be as concerned about it, apart from aesthetics. He wasn't refering to discus tanks specifically, just tropical tanks in general.

The other point he made is that the biofilm in our filter media is more effective when kept thin by rinsing the media more often unlike many of us that don't want to lose the beneficial bacteria "slime" by too much cleaning. He also says that nitrifying bacteria is harder to kill than by just not feeding it (with ammonia, food etc), it goes dormant rather than dying off quickly & can bounce back pretty fast. This is different than had I believed but similar to what I've actually experienced. (though I'm not a person that tests everything often unless I have problems...)

[moik]

I wipe everytime I go...Oh sorry,,we are talking discus tanks...Once a week as a min. is good for my situation..