itchy scratchy discus?

[MrYin]

just wondering....is itchy discus normal? these guys shiver a lot lately and are now scratching themselves along side stuff in the tank. seems like there eating has slowed a little but not much maybe not even enough to mention. they look healthy. there is not a change in their appearance. the only thing that has changed (wc, feedings, etc) is their diet. i was feeding homemade beefheart but have now added tetra bits to their feedings. these guys are fry....only 6 months old, some where around there. any suggestions? i will also mention (because i know its gonna come up) i do 100% wc daily. i use aged water.

[Eddie]

just wondering....is itchy discus normal? these guys shiver a lot lately and are now scratching themselves along side stuff in the tank. seems like there eating has slowed a little but not much maybe not even enough to mention. they look healthy. there is not a change in their appearance. the only thing that has changed (wc, feedings, etc) is their diet. i was feeding homemade beefheart but have now added tetra bits to their feedings. these guys are fry....only 6 months old, some where around there. any suggestions? i will also mention (because i know its gonna come up) i do 100% wc daily. i use aged water.


Could be flukes, if they are scratching/flashing often. 6 months old are not fry, almost at the end of juvenile stage. :o

[MrYin]

Could be flukes, if they are scratching/flashing often. 6 months old are not fry, almost at the end of juvenile stage. :o

lol.....i know but i want they are still my babies.....:D ummm...how can i tell for sure?

[Jennie]

how often and what percentage of water changes are you doing. Sometimes poor water quality can cause the fish to rub/flash/shake.
If you're sure that water quality is on the up n up then this is a treatment I used for flukes and was successful with. to this date, still have had no recurrence. Use one drop per gallon you are treating. I did not have a biofilter dieback when I treated using lifebearer however it can cause a secondary bacterial infection in fish who are severly affected or have compromised immune systems. But I believe that would be rare to have happen.
________
With my original treatment of prazipro and heavy salt dosage My fish had relief for a few days but the symptoms of rapid breathing and flashing alays came back. So upon reading the archives, Someone else had success with using Lifebearer I decided to try that. With Much appreciated help/advice from Eddie I started the treatment and progress was as follows.
the evening before I drained and cleaned the tank walls, heaters and uplift tubes thoroughly in my 125. I dropped the temperature in the tank to 80 degrees and turned the lights out for the duration of treatment
Day 1: 120 drops added taking into consideration decorations and tank not being topped completely.
Day 2: same treatment of 120 with NO waterchange.
Day 3: No meds administered and NO waterchange
day 4,5 and 6 Large waterchanges performed, no meds administered.
now on day 5 and 6 the flashing and heavy breathing returned on 2 of my fish. I cleaned the tank thoroughly again, removed all wood decorations and cleaned my 3 sponge filters. This treatment had zero affect on my bio.
Day 7,8 and 9 repeated the same as day 1,2 and 3 except dosed the 125 drops instead of 120 because I removed the tank decorations.
Day 10, 11 and 12 repeated the same as day 4, 5 and 6.
On days of second round of LB the flashing was almost unnoticeable and the breathing was 50% better on the one affected the most. My Bio still unaffected.
Day 13,14 and 15 repeated the same as day 1,2 and 3. No flashing but one fish still a bit breathing faster than others.
day 16, 17 and 18 clean water clean water clean water.
The end results are I have had no flashing in my tank from any fish BUT my PE is still breathing faster than the others. Though her swollen gills are gone, her appetite is very good and she is active she is left with somewhat heavier breathing than the others. I can only conclude she has some gill damage due to me wasting precious time on prazipro and waiting for the LB to arrive in the mail. If anything changes and the flukes return I will update this post further.

[cobsterrr]

I'm pretty sure ICK has these symptoms, but you would be seeing white spots on their fins and body.

[rave 2468]

Just wanted to find out, did you keep the temp at 80 for the full 18 days?

Ryan


how often and what percentage of water changes are you doing. Sometimes poor water quality can cause the fish to rub/flash/shake.
If you're sure that water quality is on the up n up then this is a treatment I used for flukes and was successful with. to this date, still have had no recurrence. Use one drop per gallon you are treating. I did not have a biofilter dieback when I treated using lifebearer however it can cause a secondary bacterial infection in fish who are severly affected or have compromised immune systems. But I believe that would be rare to have happen.
________
With my original treatment of prazipro and heavy salt dosage My fish had relief for a few days but the symptoms of rapid breathing and flashing alays came back. So upon reading the archives, Someone else had success with using Lifebearer I decided to try that. With Much appreciated help/advice from Eddie I started the treatment and progress was as follows.
the evening before I drained and cleaned the tank walls, heaters and uplift tubes thoroughly in my 125. I dropped the temperature in the tank to 80 degrees and turned the lights out for the duration of treatment
Day 1: 120 drops added taking into consideration decorations and tank not being topped completely.
Day 2: same treatment of 120 with NO waterchange.
Day 3: No meds administered and NO waterchange
day 4,5 and 6 Large waterchanges performed, no meds administered.
now on day 5 and 6 the flashing and heavy breathing returned on 2 of my fish. I cleaned the tank thoroughly again, removed all wood decorations and cleaned my 3 sponge filters. This treatment had zero affect on my bio.
Day 7,8 and 9 repeated the same as day 1,2 and 3 except dosed the 125 drops instead of 120 because I removed the tank decorations.
Day 10, 11 and 12 repeated the same as day 4, 5 and 6.
On days of second round of LB the flashing was almost unnoticeable and the breathing was 50% better on the one affected the most. My Bio still unaffected.
Day 13,14 and 15 repeated the same as day 1,2 and 3. No flashing but one fish still a bit breathing faster than others.
day 16, 17 and 18 clean water clean water clean water.
The end results are I have had no flashing in my tank from any fish BUT my PE is still breathing faster than the others. Though her swollen gills are gone, her appetite is very good and she is active she is left with somewhat heavier breathing than the others. I can only conclude she has some gill damage due to me wasting precious time on prazipro and waiting for the LB to arrive in the mail. If anything changes and the flukes return I will update this post further.

[Jennie]

between 80-82 degrees, yes.

[rave 2468]

between 80-82 degrees, yes.

Okay, thanks.

Ryan

[PAR23]

Hi DL,

Where did you purchase your live bearer? Difficult to find.:(

[scottthomas]

It is difficult to find. I saw some small bottles for sale on EBay.

[Jennie]

http://www.aquariumpros.com/p-APR00700,APR.html

buy a couple bottles. remember to keep temp between 80-82 and lights off whole time.

[Eddie]

This is one good source.

http://www.4fishstuff.com/index.php?cPath=61&sort=3a&page=2

Keep it stored in a dark, cool place. All other bottles I've use that have the white label and green writing are useless and outdated. A lot of places have been hit and miss on whether or not the stuff still works. The 16 ounce bottle at 4fishstuff is still active and works well.

Eddie

[Jennie]

thanx Eddie, I couldn't find that one.:)

[MrYin]

thanks discuslover....before i start with any treatment of any kind i want to know for sure something is really going on. i have not noticed any flashing or heavy breathing at all....just shaking. they rub on stuff in the tank sometime as well. they dart through the bubbles from the sponge filter, now thats funny to watch:)

[Jennie]

make sure water is good and maybe see if this is not happening right after water change??

[MrYin]

how often and what percentage of water changes are you doing. Sometimes poor water quality can cause the fish to rub/flash/shake................


i knew someone would ask......read first post.;)

[Eddie]

thanks discuslover....before i start with any treatment of any kind i want to know for sure something is really going on. i have not noticed any flashing or heavy breathing at all....just shaking. they rub on stuff in the tank sometime as well. they dart through the bubbles from the sponge filter, now thats funny to watch:)


Can you get some video of them shaking?

[PAR23]

http://www.aquariumpros.com/p-APR00700,APR.html

buy a couple bottles. remember to keep temp between 80-82 and lights off whole time.

Thanks much DL.

[PAR23]

This is one good source.

http://www.4fishstuff.com/index.php?cPath=61&sort=3a&page=2

Keep it stored in a dark, cool place. All other bottles I've use that have the white label and green writing are useless and outdated. A lot of places have been hit and miss on whether or not the stuff still works. The 16 ounce bottle at 4fishstuff is still active and works well.

Eddie

Thanks much Eddie.

[seanyuki]

+ 1.......not many places has the 16 oz botlle:)


This is one good source.

http://www.4fishstuff.com/index.php?cPath=61&sort=3a&page=2

Keep it stored in a dark, cool place. All other bottles I've use that have the white label and green writing are useless and outdated. A lot of places have been hit and miss on whether or not the stuff still works. The 16 ounce bottle at 4fishstuff is still active and works well.

Eddie

[Jennie]

yeah I think 4fishstuff will only sell one bottle per customer. I tried to order 2 but no go

[Eddie]

yeah I think 4fishstuff will only sell one bottle per customer. I tried to order 2 but no go

One should last a lifetime if its stored properly. ;)

[Jennie]

yeah, well I was being greedy and selfish:)

[MrYin]

Can you get some video of them shaking?


i can. ill try to get one tonight and get it online for you to take a look. the shaking has slowed almost to a complete halt. their appetite hasnt come back yet. then again, ive only had them about 2 months and they have put about an inch of growth. the appetite might have slowed because their growth is in a recessive period. :confused: do discus have growth spurts? i have not noticed anything different after wc's. hell....might be my fng imagination.:o

[MrYin]

ok....i starred at these guys for about 10 minutes or so observing. the shaking is gone. i did notice heavy breathing and some are using only one gill. i guess these guys may have gill flukes huh? how long do i have before its too late to treat? is it deadly?

[Jennie]

order the product but still post a vid before treating

[MrYin]

order the product but still post a vid before treating

i ordered it this morning. im going to get to work on the video now

[MrYin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ul-gIitIYE


as you can see in the vid.....one gill. i havent noticed any more shaking but their appetite has slowed. feces is still red to black. nothing abnormal then the breathing and the inactivity. these guys are not doing much for swimming around like usual. this is worrying me a bit now.....:(

[Jennie]

vid not working??

[MrYin]

Ok vid its up



vid not working??

[Jennie]

the fish are breathing fast. The left gill on the PB is clamped. Didn't see them flashing but guessing it's parasitic. Gills on another look extremely red

[Eddie]

Yup, looks like gill flukes. If water is checking good, definitely go with treatment with Life Bearer.

[MrYin]

thanks guys. ill start the treatment as posted by discuslover if everyone agrees with that. what are the exact signs of gill flukes?

[Jennie]

exactly what your vid shows and flashing

[Eddie]

thanks guys. ill start the treatment as posted by discuslover if everyone agrees with that. what are the exact signs of gill flukes?

I wouldn't say there are exact symptoms but there are general symptoms. Different ailments have the same symptoms. Your fish are displaying text book symptoms of gill flukes.

[MrYin]

alrighty. well thanks guys. treatment? exactly what discuslover said or follow the instructions on the bottle?

[Jennie]

follow mine, MrY, They are actually Eddies, it worked, still no flashing here!
Good luck:)

[MrYin]

just an update....hey dl and eddie, first 12hours into treatment and these fish are showing good signs. breathing and slowed tremendously and the flashing has haulted as well. thanks for the advise guys. its working out well. just 60 more hours to go :)

[Jennie]

when did you start treatment

[MrYin]

when did you start treatment

i started it friday night at around 6pm. i did a 100% wc and then put the lifebearer in. as of today they are doing great. everything looks normal. i will do the first wc after treatment tomorrow night and then take another vid. ill post the vid so you and eddie can take another look and let me know if all seems well. thanks again for all the help guys

[Jennie]

Well the lifebearer will kill the adults but not the eggs as they hatch. So it almost seems like an endless cycle. I personally had to perform this treatment 3x over a course of 18 days, but you may not have to do it but 2x. I don't know how severe your infestation is. you'll have to monitor it at the end of 2 treatments, maybe see what Eddie thinks.:)

[MrYin]

what is the reason for lowering the temp and turning out the lights?

[Jennie]

higher temps causes toxicity in fish with the med, lights on cause med to be inefective

[Eddie]

what is the reason for lowering the temp and turning out the lights?


A higher temp also reduces the time in which trichlorfon is effective. With trich, its all about duration of effective contact rather then potency or strength of the chemical. And as DL mentioned, lighting can also reduce effectiveness. It may be minute but why not give the treatment the most optimal conditions.

Eddie

[MrYin]

hmmm, interesting. well, just an update....i did the 100%wc and the fast breathing and flashing came back. so i started the cycle of treatment over again two days ago. today will be the third so no meds. but this time around i havent noticed them getting better. should i wait the 3 full days before i give them treatment again or is it safe to do meds sooner?

[Jennie]

follow directions exactly. Mine also had flashing come back on second round treatment...the eggs have hatched and the new parasites are irritating the fish. I see you going 3 rounds with this...
be patient

[MrYin]

so i should give the fish the three days of just water changes?

[Jennie]

Yes

[MrYin]

ok will do. ill do the 100%wc starting this afternoon and then monday ill start treatment again. did you keep the temp down and lights off the three days after treatment....when you were just doing wc

[Eddie]

ok will do. ill do the 100%wc starting this afternoon and then monday ill start treatment again. did you keep the temp down and lights off the three days after treatment....when you were just doing wc


You can bring it up 82F during off days.

[MrYin]

You can bring it up 82F during off days.

what about the lights?

[Jennie]

I left mine off, some discus may be skiddish after treatment starts

[Jennie]

any updates MRYIN??