what is pepper

[ss16534]

hi ,, i have read lot abt clean and pepper in PB ,, sorry iam new with discus
so can anybody explain wht is the above a detailed explanation would be appreciated thanks

[Altum Nut]

hi ,, i have read lot abt clean and pepper in PB ,, sorry iam new with discus
so can anybody explain wht is the above a detailed explanation would be appreciated thanks

From my understanding...
You are referring to peppering in PB. (Black Spotting On Fish)
Pigeon Blood Base Discus get this strait as it is carried in their genes.
Some more than others. The appearance appears to worsen if kept in a tank with dark substrate or dark background and sometimes in planted set-ups as well. Depending on how PB discus are cared for may minimize to peppering quantity.
In addition, you are not lam in asking questions here on Simply. This is where I got my start no to long ago. You will never be criticized regardless the question.

Hope this helps,
...Ralph

[DiscusLoverJeff]

"Peppering as it is called is a 100% sure sign that the fish has Pigeon Blood (PB) genetics...not necessarily any discus that is red based. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but now a days breeders are trying to "clean up" the peppering by minimzing it as much as possible through selective breeding. On the other hand, high amounts of peppering is a sign of a low grade discus. There are many techniques to improve the appearance of peppering you can do, which include a white/light color background, lower ph (below 7), improving water quality through frequent water changes. You will notice that all PB based discus do not have any of the traditional stress bars a normal discus has. This is because the PB discus is derived from a mutated gene over a decade ago from a farm in Thailand. With that said, the more peppering they show, means the more stressed they are. You will see at times that the peppering will almost completely disappear, because they're doing well. Same goes for discus with stress bars."

A passage I found.

[Skip]

some people like the PB peppered.. i like my blackened!! NOMM NOMM NOMM!! :cowboy:

[ockyra215]

Well to say peppering is a sign of low grade discus isnt not the truth!
Some or most people say peppering isnt desired among a lot of people here but it isnt a sign of low grade discus get your facts straight.THe origianl pigeon bloods had a lot of peppering and over time breeders have been trying to breed it out of the line to get truer colors more defined strains of pigeon bloods.Some like the the peppering its up to the keeper.
JMO:D

[Keith Perkins]

Well to say peppering is a sign of low grade discus isnt not the truth!
Some or most people say peppering isnt desired among a lot of people here but it isnt a sign of low grade discus get your facts straight.THe origianl pigeon bloods had a lot of peppering and over time breeders have been trying to breed it out of the line to get truer colors more defined strains of pigeon bloods.Some like the the peppering its up to the keeper.
JMO:D

If you're in the majority and say peppering isn't a desired trait then to you peppering is also the sign of a low grade discus, the two aren't separable. To say it's not a "fact" that peppered PBs are low grade may be true, but it's sure at a minimum a widely held opinion that they are. Sorry, I'm with Jeff.

[RudeDogg1]

Pepper is a kind of seasoning lol sorry I had to

[Eddie]

Pepper is a kind of seasoning lol sorry I had to


Beat me to it! LOL

[Disgirl]

I have heard that the "pepper" is the remnants of what used to be the black bars on the discus. Is this true?
Barb

[Jennie]

heard the same Barb, distorted through inbreeding??

[Keith Perkins]

I have heard that the "pepper" is the remnants of what used to be the black bars on the discus. Is this true?
Barb

My last batch of marlboro red fry had what appeared to be faint stress bars (nine if memory serves me correctly) up until they were around 10 weeks old or so. Then they suddenly seemed to fade away never to be seen again, at least not as true stress bars. A couple of the juvies did end up with some peppering, so based on the earlier stress bar ghosts I'd say it's likely true.


heard the same Barb, distorted through inbreeding??

Undoubtedly some of that, but don't forget some PBs have been crossed with non-PB based golden discus to try to minimize peppering too.

[John_Nicholson]

What is peppering? It is those nasty black specks that some PB's have. It is a sign of a low quality product? I lean towards yes. it does not mean that the parents were low quality, or that the care given the fry was suspect. It means that when I raise a spawn of say 300 fish, if 200 have little or no peppering and 100 have moderate to heavy pepper I will sale the 200 clean ones first, maybe 25 or so of the moderately peppered fish and end up culling the other 75 because very very people desire that look. Based on that I would call them lower quality.

-john

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Well to say peppering is a sign of low grade discus isnt not the truth!
Some or most people say peppering isnt desired among a lot of people here but it isnt a sign of low grade discus get your facts straight.THe origianl pigeon bloods had a lot of peppering and over time breeders have been trying to breed it out of the line to get truer colors more defined strains of pigeon bloods.Some like the the peppering its up to the keeper.
JMO:D

There is no need to be rude Dave regarding one persons opinion "it isnt a sign of low grade discus get your facts straight."

I just posted something I read several times over by "many" people.

With that said, lets understand that everyone has an opinion including you. When people on forums offer someone advice or comments, lets keep them constructive and not have them lead away from one persons perspective.

Now, many threads that I have read say it is from "possibly" to much inbreeding of certain strains.

[yourhero5002]

Low grade and high grade depends on what traits youre lookin at.

what if someone perfected a peppered PB strain?

then a poorly-peppered PB will be low grade,
while a more peppered PB is high grade.

while in the case of a marlboro, a highly peppered fish will be low grade.
It's all relative.

To OP, peppering is basically the dark speckles on the pigeon blood based strains of discus.

[John_Nicholson]

The market determines the grade. You can't sale peppered discus the way you can a clean PB, hence the market downgrades them...i.e. low quality.

-john

[DiscusKev]

PB is a mutation derived from turqs? Peppering 'replaced' the communication bars.

I myself would not buy a peppered PB as it is not pleasing to the eyes, a majority of people out there are looking for clean pigeons.

[SNap0283]

i think the missunderstanding is the difference between "low grade" and "less desirable". Low grade would generally mean low quality, inferior geneticly, or inproperly cared for. Less desirable would simply mean not in demand by the current market.

Peppering in PBs is generally considered undesirable but does not always mean the fish is unhealthy or somehow genetically inept. Some strains have more peppering than others, while still being completely healthy. Some strains have very little peppering, and if one of the fish or a batch of them turn out highly peppered in probably means they were poorly raised.

[Jennie]

I've never heard of "poorly raised" being the cause of peppering..It's genetic

[Eddie]

I've never heard of "poorly raised" being the cause of peppering..It's genetic


If a fish has the genetics for alot of peppering, the environment itself can cause the pepper to be more prominent like mood bars are on non-pigeons. The presence or lack of pepper is largely associated with genetics.

[John_Nicholson]

Part of grading the fish is judging the color. Poor color (i.e. peppering) is one of the factors that lead to a fish being considered low grade.

-john

[Jennie]

In other words, poor water quality, not background color, can cause PB's to pepper?
If a fish has the genetics for alot of peppering, the environment itself can cause the pepper to be more prominent like mood bars are on non-pigeons. The presence or lack of pepper is largely associated with genetics.

[Eddie]

In other words, poor water quality, not background color, can cause PB's to pepper?


Yes, poor water quality, poor diet, stressful living conditions, ext/int parasites. The backgrounds and tank bottoms can reduce peppering but the fish still has the ability to display peppering.

[DiscusKev]

In other words, poor water quality, not background color, can cause PB's to pepper?

I swear you knew this already cause we've been through this discussion before :p

[Jennie]

We have??? I think you have me mixed up with someone else.

[DiscusKev]

We have??? I think you have me mixed up with someone else.

What I meant was, when you was here at SD, we had various discussions about the causes of peppering and so I assumed you have read it (despite the fact that you did not leave a post behind). We all like learning new stuff, so we check upon threads :D

Have a nice day, I'm out.
Kevin

[Jennie]

Yes this peppering issue frequently pops up, no doubt. I don't follow every post. As far as my understanding was genetics and background/substrate colors is where the issue laid. Yes we all learn something new every day.

[seanyuki]

I had some very clean checkerboard pigeons b4 and when water quality/environment was not top notch and will notice small back specks around the forehead......

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh127/seanyuki/DSCF1724.jpg

[William Palumbo]

Nice PB's Francis...Bill

[DiscusKev]

yup, I esp like the big one, nice shape.

[discus_novice]

wow,nice size and shape.