Has anyone created their own strain?

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Has any one of you discus lovers been successful enough to create your own strain of discus? If so, what were you breeding to accomplish such success?

I am just curious because it seems most popular strains come from the Asian market from what I have been reading.

[William Palumbo]

I wish!...Bill

[Eddie]

I wish!...Bill

You and me both! ;)

[John_Nicholson]

I have had a few color sports pop up in spawns though the years but nothing that I wanted to pursue at the time. To get a new strain is extremely hard and time consuming. You have to have a huge number of tanks. You have to develop multiple lines at the same time so that you can cross them back together at a later date. Very few people have the resources to get it done. There are some areas of the world that have a natural advantage in climate so it is easier in those areas. Not saying that some one in the states could not do this at some point but it will be a rare feat.

-john

[brewmaster15]

I have had a few color sports pop up in spawns though the years but nothing that I wanted to pursue at the time. To get a new strain is extremely hard and time consuming. You have to have a huge number of tanks. You have to develop multiple lines at the same time so that you can cross them back together at a later date. Very few people have the resources to get it done. There are some areas of the world that have a natural advantage in climate so it is easier in those areas. Not saying that some one in the states could not do this at some point but it will be a rare feat.

-john Diddo to what John said.....hopefully thats something some on this forum could one day achieve that...I'd like to do that.....for now I just wing it and hope.

-al

[DiscusLoverJeff]

That is good to know John, thanks for that information.

Here is list I found regarding some of the different strains and their abbreviations incase some don't know.

Blue Strains
BD - Blue Diamond
BS - Blue Scorpion
BDSS - Blue Diamond Snakeskin
Cobalt - Cobalt

Red/Orange/Yellow Strains
MR - Marlboro Red
PB - Pigeon Blood
CPB - Checkerboard Pigeon Blood
CNPB - Carnation Pigeon Blood
GM - Gold Melon
Y/W - Yellow White
MG - Millennium Gold
GB - Golden Butterfly
YC - Yellow Crystal
RGD - Red Golden Diamond
3R - Royal Ruby Red
SM - San Merah
RP - Red Passion
SRP - Super Red Passion
MP - Mandarin Passion
3R - Royal Ruby Red
R/W - Red White
RM - Red Melon
SRM - Super Red Melon
RR - Rose Red
RRI - Rose Red Intermediate

White Strains
WD - White Diamond
SW - Snow White
WB - White Butterfly
WBtb - White Butterfly "Throwback"
WS - White Scorpion

Striated Strains
SS - Snakeskin
TSS - Tiger Snakeskin
AF - Altum Flora
FLSS - Fine Line Snakeskin
TT - Tiger Turquoise
CBT - Checkerboard Turquoise
RT - Red Turquoise
BT - Brilliant Turquoise

Spotted Strains
RSG - Red Spotted Green
LSS - Leopard Snake Skin
GLSS - Golden Leopard Snake Skin
GL - Golden Leopard
PE - Penang Eruption
SE - Super Eruption
EL - Eruption Leopard

Albinos
AG - Albino Golden
AS - Albino Snake
AA - Albino Alenquer
AT - Albino Turquoise
AR/W - Albino Red/White
AY/W - Albino Yellow White
ASW - Albino Snow White
ACP - Albino Checkerboard Pigeon
ARGD - Albino Red Golden Diamond (Solid and Striated)
APD - Albino Pearl Diamond
AC - Albino Cobalt
ABD - Albino Blue Diamond
AP - Albino Pigeon
ARB - Albino Royal Blue
ARSG - Albino Red Spotted Green
AMG - Albino Millennium Gold

Other Abbreviations
X - A cross.. usually seen between two strains of discus
f1 - First generation of a cross

Interesting information here that I hope will help others.

But getting back to someone creating their own strain. I see your point John on how long it would actually take to even consider it. This is probably an extremely long process that not all people have knowledge of what is requeired to do it. Thanks!!

[William Palumbo]

That's so true John...People do not really know how hard(space) it is to raise a whole batch of fry to adulthood. Most can't. Then to keep breeding them if they can, and raise up whole spawns from the F1's. Nowadays, with the mish-mosh of strains and genes, good luck trying to figure it out. I think, like Dale Jordan, you(we) have to go back to wild stock, basically back to the beginning and go from there. IF, you know where you want to go developing-wise...Bill

[AirCapital]

I have had a few color sports pop up in spawns though the years but nothing that I wanted to pursue at the time. To get a new strain is extremely hard and time consuming. You have to have a huge number of tanks. You have to develop multiple lines at the same time so that you can cross them back together at a later date. Very few people have the resources to get it done. There are some areas of the world that have a natural advantage in climate so it is easier in those areas. Not saying that some one in the states could not do this at some point but it will be a rare feat.

-john

I notice alot of new color mutations from se asia and such, the weather is nice enough to keep alot of tanks and grow out tubs outside and really have a huge setup.
also it seems to me a family affair in that part of the world and they work really good together and are always looking outside the box-maybe alittle more open mindedness to go outside the box and try things others dont

[kaceyo]

The best most of us can hope for is to make an improvement to their personal stock, or develope a line from already established strains that's bred to our personal tastes.
Even that takes a large number of tanks to hold breeders from each successful spawn, so you can go back and breed to set type, or to hold the original lines your working with etc etc.
It's just fun to do. You're not going to come up with anything that others havn't already done better, but it very cool to see the effects you're choices are having on the line.

[pcsb23]

The best most of us can hope for is to make an improvement to their personal stock, or develope a line from already established strains that's bred to our personal tastes.
Even that takes a large number of tanks to hold breeders from each successful spawn, so you can go back and breed to set type, or to hold the original lines your working with etc etc.
It's just fun to do. You're not going to come up with anything that others havn't already done better, but it very cool to see the effects you're choices are having on the line.Sums it up nicely for me, and it is fun trying :)

[ShinShin]

Eddie,

Do you REALLY know JimmyL or have just read his posts?

Mat

[Eddie]

Eddie,

Do you REALLY know JimmyL or have just read his posts?

Mat

Not personally Mat, no. He was always around in my initial days of Simply. I've probably read all of his posts, more than a dozen times each. LOL

[ShinShin]

He's not here now for a reason. I will PM you about this so called discus breeder.

Mat

[Eddie]

He's not here now for a reason. I will PM you about this so called discus breeder.

Mat

Ah, there is more to light. Thanks Mat

[brewmaster15]

Ah, there is more to light. Thanks Mat Yes Eddie...There is....Often times the facade shown on a forum is not an Honest representation of what a person really is often it is what they want to be...IME

-al

[Eddie]

Yes Eddie...There is....Often times the facade shown on a forum is not an Honest representation of what a person really is often it is what they want to be...IME

-al


Thanks Al, Mat schooled me up on the ordeal. Shocked to say the least and that is very unfortunate! :(

Take care,

Eddie

[DiscusKev]

^
Don't sound like good news.

[nc0gnet0]

I don't see why it could'nt be done. Just requires a little out of the box thinking. Understanding all the advantages some of the larger breeders in more favorable climates might enjoy, if several forum members could pool their resources and agree on a common goal, working together, I think it could be do-able. The arangment roclement and bob tools share is a fine example, now take that and multiply times 6, might work ?

[crimson cross]

To create a new strain, you need to be a good breeder first, and then you need luck. Without the element of luck your chances are slim at most.

[AirCapital]

there is no doubt it can be done other wise all there would be are wilds no other color mutaions. I would say it like playing the lottery and being able to read your ticket well enough not to get rid of a winner. we all know the lottery is based on mad science and 99% luck. but to increase your chances you need to play often and work with alot of tickets to better the odds.

[Tito]

I promise you guys.....

One day when I hit the Mega million...

I will buy about $500,000 worth of Discus and tanks and setup a Discus factory and create new strains. I also need to buy a big building - I'll spend aobut $700,000 on something out in the rural areas somewhere in these United States.

Tito's Discus :D

[ShinShin]

Most "strains" are developed with a plan in mind to achieve the goal that the breeder is trying to accomplish. Granted that a lot of luck has to be had for someone to have a true mutation show up in their tank, but that is not what we are talking about right now. Blue Diamond - a plan to develope a barless blue discus. It wasn't an accident. San Merah? Same thing. Solid yellow from either brown or pigeonblood? Same deal. No accidents here. As mentioned, the average hobbyist breeder has not the time nor space for such an undertaking. There is no haphazard breeding practices going on in Asia. These guys know what they are doing. They have an idea, and if they see a discus at a show like Duisburg or Aquarama, or even at another breeder's farm, they'll spend $10,000.00 for a fish that has the potential to produce what they want to accomplish.

Mat

[brewmaster15]

I don't see why it could'nt be done. Just requires a little out of the box thinking. Understanding all the advantages some of the larger breeders in more favorable climates might enjoy, if several forum members could pool their resources and agree on a common goal, working together, I think it could be do-able. The arangment roclement and bob tools share is a fine example, now take that and multiply times 6, might work ? Rick, to a degree you are correct here...one thing that allows the asian breeders to produce these changes very rapidly is that they can draw from what other breeders are working on....and as Mat says...pay whats necessary to obtain a fish with the traits they are looking for that is similar to what they are working with or trying to work towards.

By doing this, breeders can knock years off a breeding plan.

hth,
al

[Tito]

$10,000 for a fish....

OH you better beleive I'm going to get paid.

At that point - well I don't know how many of you have watched the movie New Jack City...but there is a scene where Nino Brown (Wesley Snipes) tells Ice Tea (the narc cop) he tells him "it's always business, never personal"!!

Oh you better beleive it would be all about Business.

[Eddie]

$10,000 for a fish....

OH you better beleive I'm going to get paid.

At that point - well I don't know how many of you have watched the movie New Jack City...but there is a scene where Nino Brown (Wesley Snipes) tells Ice Tea (the narc cop) he tells him "it's always business, never personal"!!

Oh you better beleive it would be all about Business.


I think you watch too many movies Tito. LOL Just kidding man, I remember that scene.

[ShinShin]

Here's an exercise to show just how much time and space one will need to produce a new strain. Take an existing strain developed already from other existing strains like leopards, blue diamonds, marlboro reds, etc.. Set up a breeding tank. Take a red turquois and a wild red spot green(for leopards). Breed them. Pick out the best fry for spot development. Back breed the fry to the parent. Continue on until you have a leopard discus. Or, if you want a blue discus or red discus, research the original pairings, and do the same. You will have the necessary strains originally used available to you. Lots of time and tanks, right?

Now, imagine creating a new strain from the beginning with only an idea as a starting point. Or, better yet, no idea and plan and hoping for some new strain to appear haphazardly.

Good luck.

Mat

[Moon]

If you think back Jack Wattley and Schmidt Focke were simply hobbyists when they developed the turq strains. They did not have the resources that you guys are talking about.
So it is possible.

[kaceyo]

If you think back Jack Wattley and Schmidt Focke were simply hobbyists when they developed the turq strains. They did not have the resources that you guys are talking about.
So it is possible.

I believe Jack started playing with discus around 1959. He didn't introduce the Wattley Turquoise until 1969 or so. That's 10 years of dedicated work to come up with one strain. I don't think he could be classified as a hobbiest by the time he introduced his Turq. Same with Dr Schmidt-Focke. They were both very serious breeders well above the hobbiest level in both knowledge and passion for breeding IMO.

[Eddie]

If you think back Jack Wattley and Schmidt Focke were simply hobbyists when they developed the turq strains. They did not have the resources that you guys are talking about.
So it is possible.


And wild type fish were used, so I'd start there again. ;)

[kaceyo]

And wild type fish were used, so I'd start there again. ;)

Right. They had to blaze their own trails as far as learning the husbandry and genetic possibilities of their discus. Jack even went on at least one collecting trip to the amazon. But it was their friendship with Heiko Bleher, at least at first, that enabled them to choose from a wide variety of wild fish for their breeding projects.

[Tito]

I dont care for a new strain.

I like Turqs and Spotteds mostly because they resemble their wild cousins the best.

[ShinShin]

Then why start the thread?

[Tito]

Then why start the thread?

Drink Coffee! LOL

[AirCapital]

not a bad thread to start at all, it shows it takes alot of luck time skill patience and hard work to do such a task, but most of all it shows it can be done.

[crimson cross]

Just to name the two strains that were created and one which many have tried and have given up....1) the blue diamond....only Lo was able to come up with that strain initially although thousands of breeders were at that time working towards an all blue barless discus. 2) san merah....ah san was the only one at that time to create a barless red fish, in the midst of all those who try to create such a color variant.
and 3) the black discus...so far none have been able to produce it yet....

It does not take much time or space to come up with a new strain eg, it only took Ah San two generations to come up with the san merah...what it really take is "luck"...as someone said "it can be done",...so can anyone win the power lotto..you just need to get the right numbers...easy if you get it, but not so for the other hundred millions...

[Moon]

I believe Jack started playing with discus around 1959. He didn't introduce the Wattley Turquoise until 1969 or so. That's 10 years of dedicated work to come up with one strain. I don't think he could be classified as a hobbiest by the time he introduced his Turq. Same with Dr Schmidt-Focke. They were both very serious breeders well above the hobbiest level in both knowledge and passion for breeding IMO.

My point is that both of them did start as hobbyists. Eventually Jack made it a business. Dr Schmidt-Focke as far as I know kept it as a hobby untill he passed away.

[Skip]

my own strain?! no way.. i am a pirate.. i will just take others peoples hard work.. like obama want ya'll to do.. SPREAD THE "DISCUS" WEALTH!!! :D

[DiscusLoverJeff]

"Just to name the two strains that were created and one which many have tried and have given up....1) the blue diamond....only Lo was able to come up with that strain initially although thousands of breeders were at that time working towards an all blue barless discus. 2) san merah....ah san was the only one at that time to create a barless red fish, in the midst of all those who try to create such a color variant.
and 3) the black discus...so far none have been able to produce it yet...."

Ahh a solid black discus, I would love to see that happen soon. Only problem is, what would cross would even create such a beautiful fish? Like the blue diamond which I am partial to, the solid blue strain is amazing.

Ok breeders, lets get started with the solid black discus which we can call "Smokey" discus!

[crimson cross]

"Ahh a solid black discus, I would love to see that happen soon. Only problem is, what would cross would even create such a beautiful fish? Like the blue diamond which I am partial to, the solid blue strain is amazing. "

Maybe, you can start with a real dirty pigeon and take it from there...oops, come to think of it, we may have a difficult time finding some, as most of us are busy "cleaning" out our pbs...

[William Palumbo]

LOL...Black Discus...count me out...Bill

[kaceyo]

People have been talking about the infamous "Black Discus" since I can remember. Unless another mutation comes along, I don't think we'll be seeing any soon.

[Eddie]

People have been talking about the infamous "Black Discus" since I can remember. Unless another mutation comes along, I don't think we'll be seeing any soon.

Yup and I am also of the same feelings as Bill, wouldn't care for black discus.

[nc0gnet0]

A melanic discus? Would be rare but it does happen.

[ShinShin]

CC - 2 generations? Where'd you get that. San's interview doesn't confirm your statement. I think he was there.

Blue diamonds have been successfully created after Sunny. One Asian breeder used a Golden Ghost to create his strain.

Mat

[nc0gnet0]

Just to clarify, what would constitute a new strain anyways?

[crimson cross]

Mat,
Ah San started his sm program in 1993/94 and by 2000, he already won the 2nd prize for red discus in Duinsburg...
Ivan took 2gen to create his red passion and there are more....snake skin, pb,ghost, and golden are all 2gen product...
The creator of Ocean Green, the famous Lee Koon Yen only spent 4 years to create it...that also amount to about 2 to 3 gen.

Most Asian breeders will not disclosed their breeding timeline, but if you follow the intro. of the strain, you can almost figure out the length of time.

[kent1963]

To clarify a "strain" must breed true. If not its a color type not a strain.

[crimson cross]

Eddie and Bill, I sure hope you are not refering to the black discus swimming in a newbiewannabeimporter's tank...lol...

Imagine a vibrant black specimen with bright red spots...I would sell my right arm for it...LOL.

[AirCapital]

To clarify a "strain" must breed true. If not its a color type not a strain.

I dont think it does have to breed true to be called stain, when you say breed true do you meen all in a spawn must be the same genotype.
say you have a blue diamond with a resessive albino gene form the outside you cannot tell the blue is hidding a resessive albino gene tell you breed it with another that has the same resessive A gene or a a/a albino if breed to a blue with a hidden A gene you will get 25%albinos or to a albino then you get 50%albinos. with that breeding you have two different strains one blue and the other albino.

[kaceyo]

Personaly I don't think you can distinguish between an albino of any given strain and the original. They are both the same strain, one just has the albino gene being expressed. An albino will always be associated with the strain that it comes from.
CC, consider the Ocean Green, as you mentioned. We all know that it's basicly a green Blue Diamond, selectivly bred to bring out the green coloring.
If just that took 4 years, (and I'm only using that figure because you did, I don't know that it did) which isn't even a new strain, just a variation on one strain, then how can you believe that distinct strains could be developed in 2 generations?
I don't count mutations, such as PB and SS etc, to be a strain that's been developed by a breeding program. They just popped into existance, so don't count. All their development came after they came into existance.

[crimson cross]

The time of 4yrs for og was from the breeder himself...check out AD 1...
If you don't consider mutations and the og as a strain, then every other strain has to be omitted as every one of them originate from the brown..originally.

A strain can originate from one of two sources. 1) Developed by man or 2)mutation, developed by nature. In either case, the strain has to originate from a source....what makes a strain is the difference of the geno and pheno from each other.

[kaceyo]

The time of 4yrs for og was from the breeder himself...check out AD 1...
If you don't consider mutations and the og as a strain, then every other strain has to be omitted as every one of them originate from the brown..originally.

I didn't mean they weren't strains, only that, in the case of OG.s, they're a variation on the BD, and still look just like a BD under certain lighting. No big change there.
And mutations are strains, but weren't deliberatley bred into existance, so no timeline of development to create them is applicable.

[crimson cross]

The og from Lee, is really not a green bd as many people think....there are many breeders who take an easier route to imitate the original og by using bd genes. The og is a little more complicated than that.

If you take more than 3 gen to come up with a new strain, in SEA, you will be surpassed my your peers...easily...

[AirCapital]

taken from a breeder site.
Strain: The descendants of a common group within a variety. I may be working on a strain of Koi angelfish that exhibits bright orange on most of the body and a yellow eye. Another breeder may have a different strain of Koi angelfish that exhibits yellow on the body and a red eye. They are both the same variety, but a different strain of that variety.

[kaceyo]

The og from Lee, is really not a green bd as many people think....there are many breeders who take an easier route to imitate the original og by using bd genes. The og is a little more complicated than that.

If you take more than 3 gen to come up with a new strain, in SEA, you will be surpassed my your peers...easily...

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. lol! If new strains were that easy to come up with, everyone would have one. What's that you said...they do?;)

[crimson cross]

Kc,
Just try counting how many new strains were released the last 5yrs....
The albino alone can give you Golden alb, abd, alb leo, alb lss, alb.turk...and so on and this is only the tip of the iceburg. Given the past mutations of the ghost, golden and snow whites, combine this with your older strains...you work out the permutations of crosses...and the outcome.

Prior to 1991, we only had turks, heckels and browns. Now you can't count the number of strains available...

[kaceyo]

Most of those are just variations of a few strains that others worked on for years. I don't think crossing a RGD with a melon, then breeding the fry back to the RGD (etc etc etc) can be considered breeding a new strain.
As I mentioned earlier, IMO adding albino genes to a strain doesn't make it a new strain either. Don't confuse having hundreds of names for assorted discus the same as having hundreds of strains.

[ShinShin]

Agreed, Kacey.

Mat

[Eddie]

I think the real question should be "has anyone created their own type". :D

[Eddie]

Eddie and Bill, I sure hope you are not refering to the black discus swimming in a newbiewannabeimporter's tank...lol...

Imagine a vibrant black specimen with bright red spots...I would sell my right arm for it...LOL.


I am not referring to that video, maybe the person who brought it up was but that fish was obviously ill or had severe nerve damage. Seen plenty of fish with nerve damage that were completely black. Either way, I was suggesting that a black discus would not be appealing but we all have our preferences. ;)

[ShinShin]

Eddie,

Anyone who ever had 2 different strains of discus has probabally created their own "type", which is someone else is talking about. A mutt is not a strain, nor is an albino of an established strain a new strain.

[AirCapital]

Eddie,

Anyone who ever had 2 different strains of discus has probabally created their own "type", which is someone else is talking about. A mutt is not a strain, nor is an albino of an established strain a new strain.

what is a mutt?? almost anything can be considered a mutt, even in wilds, if two different wilds from different regions that happen to cross breed than the true genetic makeup of that fish has changed in the offspring making it a heinz57(hybrid/mutt).

[Eddie]

Eddie,

Anyone who ever had 2 different strains of discus has probabally created their own "type", which is someone else is talking about. A mutt is not a strain, nor is an albino of an established strain a new strain.

So this is how the San Merah was created, as it never breeds true. San Merah is a type not a strain then right?

[ZX10R]

Sonnie here in Kentucky has been breeding discus for sometime and he claims to have come up with some new strain. He won't tell anyone what the parents are but he says he has been working on these for awhile. Well I assume they are a new strain since he is trying to come up with a name to call them. Here is his thread were he is selling the fry.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=83051

[nc0gnet0]

if pigeon blood, turqs, white based, and goldens are examples of strains, then the only way to get a new strain is a mutation. Each of the strains has a multitude of variations or, different varieties. I really think that the OP was meaning to ask, has anyone created thier own unique varieity of discus.

[crimson cross]

what is a mutt?? almost anything can be considered a mutt, even in wilds, if two different wilds from different regions that happen to cross breed than the true genetic makeup of that fish has changed in the offspring making it a heinz57(hybrid/mutt).

Very true. Taking it one step further, if we cross two mutts and we produce some purple frys and are able to raise these frys and rebred them into F1s , would'nt this becomes a strain, if the purple frys are still carrying the pheno/geno type? Isn't this the way we get all these new strains from the wild types, ultimately?

Kc, Mat,
I am still unclear why an albino cross is not considered a strain...obviously the geno and pheno type have changed?

Sorry, DiscusLover for derailing your thread.

[crimson cross]

Most of those are just variations of a few strains that others worked on for years. I don't think crossing a RGD with a melon, then breeding the fry back to the RGD (etc etc etc) can be considered breeding a new strain.
As I mentioned earlier, IMO adding albino genes to a strain doesn't make it a new strain either. Don't confuse having hundreds of names for assorted discus the same as having hundreds of strains.

Just crossing rgd/melon does not make the outcome a strain...unless, the outcome is different in geno and pheno type and you as the breeder is able to secure viable progeny of the set F1....it's not about the crossing...it's about the F1s and how you as a breeder can secure viable strain going into F2 and so on.....

I'll get off my soapbox now...

[DiscusLoverJeff]

I have learned some valuable information concerning breeding here so no worries about hi-jacking the thread. I am just fascinated as to the replies and different points of views regarding new strains.

This is what a thread should be about, different perspectives, opinions, valuable information and damn good feedback!!!!!

[ZX10R]

I have learned some valuable information concerning breeding here so no worries about hi-jacking the thread. I am just fascinated as to the replies and different points of views regarding new strains.

This is what a thread should be about, different perspectives, opinions, valuable information and damn good feedback!!!!!

So much info and different opinions I feel dizzy from it all :rolleyes2:

[William Palumbo]

In the "old" days, there were few strains out there. At least strains that were "recognized" as pure strains. Wattley's being one of them. If you had 200 fry from a Wattley pair....you had 200 "Wattley's"...they bred true. Which was one of the reasons why Wattley could ship you thumbnail sized fry, and be 100% positive...they were what you ordered...Bill

[Tito]

Is there is "Breeding recipe book" thread anywhere???

What I mean is this - a formula on how to breed out blue diamonds. So the recipe would say breed this and this and you get Blue Diamonds tried and true.

Because to me - that is a strain. If you can breed for lack of a better example - if you can breed a melon with another melon and put out nearly all melon offspring - then that is a strain. But to be clear - you need to be able to breed almost any two melons and always get melons.

Now - if let's say a particular fella has a pair or two that puts out Eruptions and let's say that almost all the Eruptions in the market come from these two pairs. But when someone tries to breed any number or combination of offspring that come from these two pairs and they do not get Eruptions - then to me - that is not a strain. That is just a one time thing.

Now - if a recipe could be provided for producing Eruptions time and time again by using a certain breeding combo (program) and you produce Eruptions - then I would say that that is a strain. Regardless of the complexity of the program

ie.. you must breed a Red spotted leopard and a checkerboard turq - then you have to breed the offspring back to the Leopard parent and walla you have an Eruption. And if this can be done time and time again - then I consider that a strain.

But this whole pot luck thing kind of breeding - nah, those aren't strains to me. Just the unique product of a one time pairing.

[crimson cross]

In the "old" days, there were few strains out there. At least strains that were "recognized" as pure strains. Wattley's being one of them. If you had 200 fry from a Wattley pair....you had 200 "Wattley's"...they bred true. Which was one of the reasons why Wattley could ship you thumbnail sized fry, and be 100% positive...they were what you ordered...Bill

In the good old days, you don't have SimplyDiscus where you can come and talk about the "old" days....

[William Palumbo]

True...you had to actually do a LOT more on your own. Had to earn your stripes back then...Bill

[crimson cross]

True...you had to actually do a LOT more on your own. Had to earn your stripes back then...Bill

I agree..

[nc0gnet0]

I was really hoping one of the univeristy peeps would chime in and clarify just exactly what constitutes a strain?

[kaceyo]

I was really hoping one of the univeristy peeps would chime in and clarify just exactly what constitutes a strain?

There is no written criteria for what makes a strain, so it's just opinion no matter who it's from. In fact, knowing those University Guy's, well...take it with a grain of salt ;).

[nc0gnet0]

LOL,

Well then without an accepted defintion of the term, then I guess many many people have developed thier own strain :D

[Eddie]

LOL,

Well then without an accepted defintion of the term, then I guess many many people have developed thier own strain :D

Probably so!

[Tito]

I love it! I just love the conclusion. Another one of those Osmosis things!

The Discus side of the hobby is amazing to say the least.

[kaceyo]

Now that I think about it, you're right! Get ready, my Seattle Eruptions will hit the market in a matter of days. AND, I can charge twice as much as I have been because they are a new and rare strain. :D

[Tito]

Now that I think about it, you're right! Get ready, my Seattle Eruptions will hit the market in a matter of days. AND, I can charge twice as much as I have been because they are a new and rare strain. :D

You know what - I'm starting to feel real comfy about this....

who knows - ten years from know - I'll be pimping something I came up with from the lab and make big bucks. Red Spotted Jaguars - get them while they're hot!

[Eddie]

You know what - I'm starting to feel real comfy about this....

who knows - ten years from know - I'll be pimping something I came up with from the lab and make big bucks. Red Spotted Jaguars - get them while they're hot!


This is pretty much what happens these days it seems. Its actually a sign of respect to keep the line going and giving the original "breeder/creator" props. If I started with a group of Wattley turq and I made them a little different in shape or pattern, they are still Wattley turq, not my own. They originated from his fish and are his line. Thats just how I see it. Others have differing opinions.

[Justice]

I would love to see someone come up with a blue with white face discus or a dark blue discus with a light blue face kind of like how my BD mama gets a two tone appearance when she is feeding her fry.

[Eddie]

I would love to see someone come up with a blue with white face discus or a dark blue discus with a light blue face kind of like how my BD mama gets a two tone appearance when she is feeding her fry.


That would be different and definitely possible.

[Dudley Eirich]

I love the discussion. So many color and pattern variations have come from the natural colors and patterns found in wild discus plus a few mutations along the way. Add some selective breeding and you get the great variety that we have today. I still think a black discus is possible. Obviously some genes get turned on when a fish gets sick and turns almost black. I had a male cobalt discus that turned totally black when he was overseeing his wriggler brood. If the right signal for "blackness" can be turned on by either sickness or by the parenting instinct, then some mutation at some point in time should produce the same effect, but on a permanent basis. The genetics may be much more complex than I am making it, but I think it gives hope for a black discus strain in the future.

[AirCapital]

i notice some poking fun at creating there own strain. does it sound impossible? I hope not. otherwise this hobby is stuck in the mud. think outside the box and work hard and smart and you could be the next. it realy depend on how in depth you want to get with the word strain.

[William Palumbo]

As most of the earlier posts elude to...it's a very time/space consuming task. You have to know what you want, within limitations, and at the very least have a clue and some resources to get there. Or you can get "lucky" and find the "needle in the haystack" and capitalize on it! Anything is possible tho. Not real sure what else could be done "new" wise, that is not an abomination of what a Discus should be. We may have hit our peak. Where do we go from here? I personally would like to get back to the more "classic" strains...Bill

[AirCapital]

I agree. there is always improvement no matter the result. even if a mutation doent pop out of nowhere whe can always improve on what we have currently.