Micro Bubbles

[roclement]

Hello everyone!

With the cold weather upon us I have started to run into a common problem (for me at least) for people doing water changes straight from the tap. Micro Bubbles!

A long time ago I had issues with microbubbles and the best answer I received is that due to the extreme difference in temperature between the incoming tap water (very cold) and the house water (hot) mixed expedites the release off gasses, chlorine, etc thus creating the micro bubbles.

Now the bubbles are a pain for adult fish but can kill fry since they can get attached to gills so eliminating them is a must! I have come up with two solutions (other than aging the water), one if slowing down the flow of water and the other is running it through a home made filter.

I use a two liter soda bottle, cut the large end(bottom), fill it with sponges and run the water through it from the top end into the tank, works great and no more micro bubbles!

What I would like with this thread is two fold. First to find out what causes micro bubbles, is it indeed the release of gases? Second, how do you deal with it?

Thanks guys!

Rodrigo

[William Palumbo]

Hi Rod. I too get tons of super-saturated water from my tap as well. Lake Michigan gets COLD! Not sure what causes it, but I believe many years ago, Joe Gargas wrote a article about it explaining what causes it, and the effect on fish. I never noticed any problem with it. Maybe I'm just lucky. 20+ years of just mixing the temp at the sink, and running it thru a Python, is pretty much all I do. Maybe now I've jinxed myself!...Bill

[discuscraze]

I use a two liter soda bottle, cut the large end(bottom), fill it with sponges and run the water through it from the top end into the tank, works great and no more micro bubbles!


You would have to hold the soda bottle some how ... what if it takes 20 min to fill 1 tank?

I was thinking of a setup using pre-filters from RO filter. They have whole house filters so there has to be something that can be used and will be fast.

[DiscusOnly]

You would have to hold the soda bottle some how ... what if it takes 20 min to fill 1 tank?

I was thinking of a setup using pre-filters from RO filter. They have whole house filters so there has to be something that can be used and will be fast.

I am pretty sure Rod has the hose screw into the soda bottle.

discuscraze: Remember you asked me about the big foam on the one side of my tank? Not only is the intake tube and the heater are placed there. That's where I refill the tap water. It goes from there to the other side of the tank via the foam or the filter. I get very little bubble this way.

[roclement]

Whatever the method it has to be in line after the water gets mixed but a pressure filter will slow down the water flow tremendously. With the coke bottle the flow doesn't slow at all, if you can figure a way to hold it in the tank, I just lower the lid and it's all good.

Rodrigo

[discuscraze]

I have seen Van's setup and now understand the dual purpose of the foam.

Rod, if possible, please post a picture to help me understand. Also what kind of foam did you use?

[roclement]

I have to make a new one since every year i loose the previous years! I use any filter foam I have around, and even filter floss if I have it handy.

Rodrigo

[ockyra215]

I have micro bubbles also when filling from the tap.Its a pain in the A..
But I will try the soda bottle foam set up!:D

[Jennie]

My water is getting allot of micro bubbles now that it's getting colder. What, if any affect does this have on the overall health of adult fish?? This will be my first winter with discus

[scottishbloke]

Rod- I am experiencing this same problem also, even though it takes a full 20 minutes to refill my 90g straight from the tap using one of those 1/2-inch white potable water boat hoses. Some of my fish are very mad at me right now, as they have lost part of their slime coat from the bubbles :( Do you have a picture of your soda bottle hose attachment (which sounds like a brilliant idea) that you could post so myself and others can see what it is supposed to look like? I want to try and make one before the next water change.

Thanks,

Colin

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Hello everyone!

With the cold weather upon us I have started to run into a common problem (for me at least) for people doing water changes straight from the tap. Micro Bubbles!

A long time ago I had issues with microbubbles and the best answer I received is that due to the extreme difference in temperature between the incoming tap water (very cold) and the house water (hot) mixed expedites the release off gasses, chlorine, etc thus creating the micro bubbles.

Now the bubbles are a pain for adult fish but can kill fry since they can get attached to gills so eliminating them is a must! I have come up with two solutions (other than aging the water), one if slowing down the flow of water and the other is running it through a home made filter.

I use a two liter soda bottle, cut the large end(bottom), fill it with sponges and run the water through it from the top end into the tank, works great and no more micro bubbles!

What I would like with this thread is two fold. First to find out what causes micro bubbles, is it indeed the release of gases? Second, how do you deal with it?

Thanks guys!

Rodrigo

The micro bubbles are because of the cold tap water coming into the house which is warmer. The colder the water, the more of a gas it can hold (N, O2, CO2, etc). The warmer it gets, the less it can hold. Because the water warms up, it can no longer hold those gases in solution and releases them as bubbles. Now this doesnt happen while the water is in the pipes, even if it is heated because the water supply is under pressure. When you have 40+ psi in a water supply line, gases can become super saturated and still be in solution. As soon as that super saturated water comes out of the hose/pipe, boom....instant bubbles.

Under ideal situations, the water is aged to prevent this from ever being an issue. But in a point of use type situation, there isnt a whole lot that can be done, aside from a DIY degasser of sorts. Even then, it is no guarantee it will fix your issue because you dont know what gases are coming out of solution, and at what saturation levels they were at while under pressure.

-Ryan

[brewmaster15]

The micro bubbles are because of the cold tap water coming into the house which is warmer. The colder the water, the more of a gas it can hold (N, O2, CO2, etc). The warmer it gets, the less it can hold. Because the water warms up, it can no longer hold those gases in solution and releases them as bubbles. Now this doesnt happen while the water is in the pipes, even if it is heated because the water supply is under pressure. When you have 40+ psi in a water supply line, gases can become super saturated and still be in solution. As soon as that super saturated water comes out of the hose/pipe, boom....instant bubbles.

Under ideal situations, the water is aged to prevent this from ever being an issue. But in a point of use type situation, there isnt a whole lot that can be done, aside from a DIY degasser of sorts. Even then, it is no guarantee it will fix your issue because you dont know what gases are coming out of solution, and at what saturation levels they were at while under pressure.

-Ryan
Agree 100 % with Ryan here. The only thing I'll add is that whether its a stress factor or not often depends on the volume of water you change... I have to age my water... for fry...no question there or I WILL lose them...been there done that....but I can easily change 25%-30% of my water from tap directly and non-fry are generally fine. ....do more than that and I stress them out....

If you are dealing with gas in the water you should take some pH readings ( out of the tap verses aged 12-24 hrs with aeration)... if the gas is CO2 you risk not only the stress of the gas...but wide pH swings... For example here I have a well.. lots of CO2... my water is on the average 6.5 out of the tap due largely to the gas... off gassed by aging and my water is a whopping 7.8 so to do large wcs without aerating is to subject the fish in my case to a daily swing of pH 6.5- 7.8...not exactly ideal IMO!

hth,
al

[tcyiu]

Just to add to Ryan and Al's points:

Liquids dissolves more gases under high pressure, and low temperature.

The most common, everyday example of this bit of chemistry trivia is soda pop. On the store shelf, it is all liquid with no bubbles. As soon as you open the cap to release the pressure, you can see the soda start to bubble.

Now imagine soda pop going through your gills or your nose. Anyone who has shot soda out through a nostril (because a friend told you a joke at an inopportune time) will know it hurts like heck.

That is one good reason why the water should be degassed. Al points to another good one which is release of carbon dioxide will change the pH of the water.

I agitate my water in a holding tank until the water is clear and no longer milky white. If I were to introduce tap water into the main tank, I would look for bubbles that might form on the tank walls. This would indicate that there are still dissolved gases turning back into bubbles.

Tim

[Jennie]

I'm wondering if I just stick some porat sponge up in the end of the python if that will work on degassing the water better?? I'll give a try and see how it works, let you know and test up the waters ph as well.

[brewmaster15]

Give it a shot Jennie,but it most likely won't work well....what you would need is a degassing tower of some sort... like this...

http://www.forbesgroup.co.uk/section.php/7/0

but on a more appropriate scale....I'm sure with a little math and some good engineering a hobbyist could probably make one for their volume of water....but I haven't a clue on where to start....

-al

[Jennie]

now Al, What the heck am I going to do with that example??:D hello, ideas for dummies needed here

[brewmaster15]

now Al, What the heck am I going to do with that example??:D hello, ideas for dummies needed here oh okay...I can give you one there...

55 gallon water storage barrel
250-300 watt heater
air pump and air stone
Time ( 12-24 hours)
55 gallons tap water

Combine all the above and do a water change!:D:D:D

-al

[roclement]

That's why I love this place! There is always people with the answers to all questions! Thanks for the explanations everyone! So I guess my simplified explanation was semi correct!

I agree with Al about the stress on the fish and almost certain death for fry. I have had success with the bottle set-up but I guess the only sure fire way would be to age the water, especially for fry! Maybe the bottle works as a de-gaser of sorts, who knows, all I know is that it works, but again, with fry it's tough.

On my fry tanks I replace the water behind Poret foam that devides the tank and I see no microo bubbles on the fry side at all.

Rodrigo

[Jennie]

Rod, when you say you provide water for fry behind poret, are you doing so straight from tap without the aid
of the bottle?

[Jennie]

smarty!:D All fun aside, you know how crazy my ph fluctuates. Just looking for ideas beyond having to store 3 to 4 water aging barrels.
oh okay...I can give you one there...

55 gallon water storage barrel
250-300 watt heater
air pump and air stone
Time ( 12-24 hours)
55 gallons tap water

Combine all the above and do a water change!:D:D:D

-al

[Jennie]

Ok Ok you were right Al! Tank ph before water change 6.4 tap 7.6 unchanged using poret when refilling. Guess will have to go get 2 litre bottle to try it Rods way.

[roclement]

Rod, when you say you provide water for fry behind poret, are you doing so straight from tap without the aid
of the bottle?

Now that the water is still not that cold, and I haven't made my bottle yet, I am going staright into the tank, behind the poret and no bubbles in the other side. I have not checked for PH fluctuations.

Rodrigo

[Tito]

shoot...

no wonder I killed off that first batch of fry!

[Jennie]

I find if I do 50 % water change on the juvies, the micro bubbles, gas off quickly. the small fish don't seem to be too affected when I do it that way. The larger discus that I put through 80% daily don't really care period, even though the tank is cloudy with the micro bubbles for 30 minutes. BUT not sure how this affects them longterm, healthwise.

[aalbina]

I was able to use Al's idea - the fish are a little scared of it in this photo but I think that with time they will adjust....




now Al, What the heck am I going to do with that example??:D hello, ideas for dummies needed here

[brewmaster15]

lol,
You gotta love digital images!!!:) Adam. better watch it..they'll lay eggs on that!!;):D:D:D

-al

[Jennie]

ROTF Adam! Love it!:o
I was able to use Al's idea - the fish are a little scared of it in this photo but I think that with time they will adjust....

[scottishbloke]

Hey guys,

Being a canny Scotsman, I did some searching and came across a small sized and quite simple DIY degasser designed by another Brit on another discus forum. In the thread in question, they are actually trying to build their own DIY filtration systems that include the air-stripping of dissolved gases, including some ammonia etc. Here is the link:

http://forum.bidka.org/showthread.php?t=2899&page=2

If you scroll down to Post#19 and after, it has pictures helping to show how to make your own DIY degasser. In the meantime, I am going to use an empty 55g tank to try out an idea I had using something even more simple during the next few days, and will report on the results after doing several trials. Those bubbles have gotta go!!

Colin

[Jhhnn]

The big issue, I think, is getting the microbubbles to form outside the fish. Water interchange across the fish's skin and gills is quite large, and could lead to gas bubbles inside the fish, a very bad thing.

I recall Yasmeena having such problems, before leaving discus keeping...

I think a huge amount of degassing would occur just from putting makeup water through a sprayer, like a showerhead, as it entered the tank...

I'm with Al, in any event- aged and conditioned water for my discus... it's just part of my water changing system, which works quite well...

[scottishbloke]

I think a huge amount of degassing would occur just from putting makeup water through a sprayer, like a showerhead, as it entered the tank...

My thoughts exactly- that's what I'm going to try out this weekend. I found one of those screw-on spray gun attachments for a garden hose in my shed that I once used years ago, before I replaced it with a wand for watering my hanging baskets. I will be trying it out on a fishless tank with some driftwood in it to see if it works or not...

Colin

[scottishbloke]

Well, the garden hose sprayer worked marvelously as a degasser. I tried it out twice on a fishless BB tank, and after checking on the tank once per half hour for 3 hours afterward (sometimes the bubbles do not form immediately but appear in great quantities later), no bubbles were present at all. I then did a 95% w/c on my 90g BB, and no bubbles formed, so the fish were happy :D You need to have lids on the tank, as it produces a lot of fine spray whilst refilling, which also took 50% longer even at full blast. The spray did also dislodge some debris hidden in the holes/crevices of my driftwood, but this collected in a corner after the w/c and was very quickly and easily removed by siphon. I would not however recommend using a high-pressure sprayer as a degasser on a planted tank, as it churns up the water so much whilst filling, there would be substrate all over the place and uprooted plants, unless you direct the spray against a plate, overturned bowl or something similar.

Colin

[Jhhnn]

My thoughts exactly- that's what I'm going to try out this weekend. I found one of those screw-on spray gun attachments for a garden hose in my shed that I once used years ago, before I replaced it with a wand for watering my hanging baskets. I will be trying it out on a fishless tank with some driftwood in it to see if it works or not...

Colin

I'd check the temp carefully, too- you're bound to lose some heat into the air with a sprayer. How much- dunno, but it's something you can easily compensate for.

[roclement]

I am trying a filter sock tomorrow, 1 micron material that should do the job, it works well as a bubble trap in the salt water tank...

rodrigo

[Eddie]

I am trying a filter sock tomorrow, 1 micron material that should do the job, it works well as a bubble trap in the salt water tank...

rodrigo


That would be interesting Rod, let us know how it rolls.

Eddie

[Melissa]

shoot...

no wonder I killed off that first batch of fry!

+1!!!! lol This is a great thread. I had no idea!

[Jennie]

I'll be following this closely too Rod:)
I am trying a filter sock tomorrow, 1 micron material that should do the job, it works well as a bubble trap in the salt water tank...

rodrigo

[Jhhnn]

I have an idea for a sprayer that I'd like somebody who has this microbubble problem to test for me. PM's, please.

[Yboat]

Just a FYI, many water district add CO2 to thier supplys, it might be worth calling them to see if they are. not only can it cuase micro bubbles, it will also lower the Ph which will cuase ph swings as it off gasses.

[Jennie]

This must be what's happening with mine.. 7.6 tap and 6.4 in 24 hours..has the greatest affect on the juvies
Just a FYI, many water district add CO2 to thier supplys, it might be worth calling them to see if they are. not only can it cuase micro bubbles, it will also lower the Ph which will cuase ph swings as it off gasses.

[roclement]

The filter sock did not do the job very well, running the water trough the "filter bottle" still disperses the gases better...

Thanks for the tip on the Co2, I will contact my water company! Would this be something they would add seasonaly or year round?

Rodrigo

[Jennie]

Good Q Rod?? I'm just going to get some crushed coral today and run through an hob to keep my ph up in the tanks..That way during wc the ph remain level ..I hope:confused:

[Yboat]

This must be what's happening with mine.. 7.6 tap and 6.4 in 24 hours..has the greatest affect on the juvies

it would be the other way around if it was co2

[Eddie]

Good Q Rod?? I'm just going to get some crushed coral today and run through an hob to keep my ph up in the tanks..That way during wc the ph remain level ..I hope:confused:


DL, add Seachem Reef Builder

[Jennie]

Thanx eddie, Other than coral gravel they had nothing in terms of crushed gravel.. I will buy that. What are recommendations for it's dosage in FW tanks?

[Eddie]

Thanx eddie, Other than coral gravel they had nothing in terms of crushed gravel.. I will buy that. What are recommendations for it's dosage in FW tanks?

You can roll with the directions on the bottle. 1 tsp per 40 gallons. I started using this product a long while back since I was unable to perform daily water changes to control my PH/KH. This stuiff is magic, anyone I have recommended it to LOVES it.


http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ReefBuilder.html

[Jennie]

Thanx Buddy!:)

[roclement]

OK...just made my life easier...new de-gassing method, the horizontal cone approach!!

Just tip the cone over and place the hose inside the cone, as the water enters the cone it tumbles and releases the gases, then the bubbles move up the cone and release gently without causing micro bubbles! Click on the image to watch the video, check the upper portion of the cone and you will see the gasses being released gently.

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/rodclement/Ogon%20Yellows/th_MVI_0540.jpg (http://s760.photobucket.com/albums/xx248/rodclement/Ogon%20Yellows/?action=view&current=MVI_0540.mp4)

Rodrigo

[Lukan]

Not only are Barb's cone magical for breeding fish but also magical for taking care of micro bubbles. Let us know how this one works out in the long run.....

[Jennie]

Well...At least I have a use for my cone now! :) Unbelievable Rod the things u come up with!!

[BOBT00LS]

I dont even want to ask how you came up with this idea but I will surely be giving it a try. If it works what else can you be called but a modern day Einstein. :D

Bob

[Eddie]

I dont even want to ask how you came up with this idea but I will surely be giving it a try. If it works what else can you be called but a modern day Einstein. :D

Bob


LMAO, that is definitely thinking "Out of the Box". Thats awesome Rod! I'll have to give it try myself.

[roundfishross]

woluld a protein skimmer work?

[roclement]

woluld a protein skimmer work?

No, the specific gravity is not enough to generate skimmate, however, the movement of water will release the gases but only after the water is already in your tank and it would take a while before you get all the water to go through the skimmer.

Thanks guys for the comments! I changed all the water in two breeder tanks and in the tank with the wigglers, no bubbles accumulated on the surfaces or on the fish. Next time I will try the cone upright, that was my original intention, I tougt the bubbles would trap in the cone and be released gently through the clay but found no need to do it since this way worked so well!

Rodrigo

[joe98ss]

Nice Rodrigo I will have to try this. I get bubbles in my tanks bad using well water. I just set up another tank a couple weeks ago using straight tap water. I have two new sponge filters and I had to squeeze the bubbles out of them 4 separate times because they kept floating back up. The bubbles also stuck on the side of the tank for a couple days.

Joe

[roundfishross]

i meant run it through the skimmer on the way to the tank.would be expensive unless you have one laying around though

[BOBT00LS]

I gave Rod's water supply into a clay spawning cone a shot this morning. I used a much smaller cone then Rod had used as it was the only one I had free and it substantially reduced the amount of microbubbles. What was in the water column quickly rose to the surface. They were all eliminated within two minutes where as without using the cone they lingered for a long period of time. My assesment of this method is that it works and would have probably worked even better with a larger cone.


Bob

[Lukan]

No, the specific gravity is not enough to generate skimmate, however, the movement of water will release the gases but only after the water is already in your tank and it would take a while before you get all the water to go through the skimmer.

Thanks guys for the comments! I changed all the water in two breeder tanks and in the tank with the wigglers, no bubbles accumulated on the surfaces or on the fish. Next time I will try the cone upright, that was my original intention, I tougt the bubbles would trap in the cone and be released gently through the clay but found no need to do it since this way worked so well!

Rodrigo

I might as well add that running a skimmer on fresh water will be very noisy. Just from my experience.

I will be trying the cone trick tonight when i do a big water change.

Marte

[Jennie]

Hmmm, Rod, I tried this today and I got more way microbubbles than before. Are you pumping in water slow or full blast??

[DiscusOnly]

I've finally found something that works really well in eliminating most of the bubbles! It does not elimiate 100% of it but you could hardly tell there was a just an 80% wc. When I get some time, I will set up 2 tanks and do a side by side video to show a difference.

pictures and video will follow.

[roclement]

I've finally found something that works really well in eliminating most of the bubbles! It does not elimiate 100% of it but you could hardly tell there was a just an 80% wc. When I get some time, I will set up 2 tanks and do a side by side video to show a difference.

pictures and video will follow.

Quickly please!!!

Rodrigo

[Eddie]

Don't say that too loud, somebody thinks micro bubbles don't exist! Lol


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[roclement]

:) Oh...I'll keep this figment of our imagination hush-hush...

Rodrigo

[joanr]

now Al, What the heck am I going to do with that example??:D hello, ideas for dummies needed here

Jennie, if you purchase a 55gal storage tank, it's much easier to also get a submersible pump to get that water to the main tank. I always age water in winter here in Colorado, actually I age it all year long, there are always micro bubbles in my water, winter or summer. Many other benefits to storing water also, perfect temperature control, airating/aging also reduces levels of harmful chlorine, but don't throw away the bottle of Prime, it won't rid all.

[leslie]

I am really curious to see what your solution is as well. We built a sort of bubble trap out of 4" PVC pipe (based on Rod's coke bottle design) that looks pretty hideous. Our water comes straight from our plumbing. Our canister filter is connected to the house plumbing so new water flows into the tank via the canister return pipe. The return is connected to the bubble trap in the tank.

[Discus-Hans]

I'm not 100% sure (yes I'm getting old) and don't want to look it up.

It's not about the bubbles you see, it's the much smaller ones that can give your Discus "gas bubble disease"

Now, I'm not real pro filling your tank direct from the tap, but if you do keep the tube 4" to 6" above your water and let the water "fall" in the tank. It will reduce it a lot,

Hans

[nc0gnet0]

Stuff a two liter bottle with medium matala, run in over that, in one end out the other.

[leslie]

I am not familiar with matala. Can you tell me what the advantage of using matala is over some other type of medium coarse sponge? Thanks.

[goodoo]

I allways age it a bit, or for longer 1 to 48 hours. I try to agitate the water as much as I can when its going into the storage device. I usually do big changes so the longer its aged the better.

[MrCloudz]

I Knew I was going to have this problem before I came back to the hobby so I was just going tobite the bullet and age but after some experimentation I came up with the following spraybar. It has 1/16 holes and hangs on all my tanks. When it's hooked up to my 125 the water flys thru the air 18" in an arch then rolls down the rear glass. No bubbles. 1/8th holes degassed it about 75%. most of the lfs around here don't age and I have watched a few of them do water changes and they just let the water fall about 12" from a hose bib above the tank. Right from the tap. That would only only take away about 25% of my bubbles.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/9469/dsc01213i.jpg



I'm pretty sure when I was doing research I stumbled upon discusnyc fish room Fish "Rack" Overhaul thread. In it he said the following.

"Absolutely no ill effects whatsoever, i was like you when i first started, used to use prime. The only thing with using direct tap water is that you must let it degas first. For me letting the water enter above the water line is sufficient. A very hard learned lesson for me as a newbie was that i used to do water changes with a python and let the return water come in below the water line and wondering why my fish were all lying on their sides after a 70 percent water change. It all changed when i let the water out above the water line, and now i can literally do 99% water changes with no problems. Just to make sure my valuable stock is not affected by any chemical changes in my water supply, i will be putting in a carbon block filter to the supply line for the new fish room. This rack is going to be a prototype, and many improvements are going to be implemented in the new fish room.

Im sorry i didn't mean to imply that i was able to degas chlorine by adding water slowly above the water line. It only allows the atmospheric gasses such as nitrogen escape as they hit higher tempretures and lower pressure. Saving the fish from literally getting the "bends", which is very painful to watch. I have no trace chlorine or chloramine in my water, never tasted chlorine and verified by a water report. I would however like to insure my self in case was added in the future with the addition of a carbon block filter.

Regards,
Angel "


There is no way I could do a 90% WC with that method no matter how high I held the hose and we use the same water. The most I will do with the spray bar is 50%. I not sure if these people have poor water pressure or what. I would like to add That I use prime and keep my fx5 and over powered hydro v's going during water changes so that helps.

[strawberryblonde]

For anyone who uses a python system for water changes, I have a simple homemade solution to the micro bubble problem. I'll get a video of it in action during my WC tomorrow and upload it so you can see how well it works if you want.

My tap water has a horrid micro bubble issue. But for me, there simply is NO place to put an aging tank in my house. I tried the splash method and got lousy results. The bubbles were fewer and dissipated faster, but there were still far too many for me to feel comfortable.

So, I took a huge hunk of polyfiber (the bonded type with both coarse and finer weave), rolled it into a tube, folded over one end to make a big bulge and then stuffed it into the syphon end of the python (well, to be truthful it's an aqueon, not a python syphon).

The bulging part is at the end of the syphon and stuffed in fairly tightly. I then slid a filter sock over the syphon. I had a spare unused one from a battery operated "mini" gravel vacuum that I use on my tiny tanks. It fits snugly onto the syphon and is held in place with an elastic band.

I experimented with letting the water drop from about 12" above the water, but still had plenty of micro bubbles. I then tried only opening the syphon valve about halfway, which allowed a nice airy turbo action in the syphon just above the poly floss. That seemed to eliminate a lot more of the bubbles.

And then I set the syphon into the tank water for just a sec while I was plugging my heater and canister filter back in and bingo, when I looked back up at the tank, there were almost ZERO micro bubbles coming out of the syphon and into the water column. The few that did enter rose quickly to the top of the water and were dissipated!

By the time I walk the python hose back to the laundry room, the water column is crystal clear and has no visible micro bubbles at all. So about 3-4 minutes. No more cloudy tank or bubbles on my fish and plants.

SB

[Vee]

I'm not 100% sure (yes I'm getting old) and don't want to look it up.

It's not about the bubbles you see, it's the much smaller ones that can give your Discus "gas bubble disease"

Now, I'm not real pro filling your tank direct from the tap, but if you do keep the tube 4" to 6" above your water and let the water "fall" in the tank. It will reduce it a lot,

Hans

I put together a water return using PVC piping that is raised about 8 inches above water with an Aquaclear filter at the end to reduce bubbles. The fish no longer are stressed after a 75% water change.