IT'S ALL GOOD NOW!

[merk175]

My blue turq pair spawned and looks to be a textbook one. Spawned last Tuesday, eggs hatched Friday, free swimmers on Sunday and tonight (Tuesday) all fry have solidly attached. Parents are splitting up the chore of feeding and so far, all is good. Do have a couple questions for the experienced breeders out there.

1. the tank has got alot of algae on the glass. I really don't want to go in there and disturb anything and clean it up but I'm wondering if that might cause any problems with the fry. Suggestions???? leave it alone or clean it up?

2. I work full time and won't be able to do the brine shrimp hatching deal. I'm planning on trying the frozen BBS instead. Will that work and if so, what product should I use?

3. Since I'm not planning on hatching BBS, I was thinking of leaving the fry with the parents a little longer than folks suggest here. How long can I leave them feeding on the parents? Will they continue to feed on the parents or will the parents put an end to it?

4. Finally, any suggestions on what I can feed them if the frozen BBS doesn't work?

Thanks to all for your input. I've got some great shots of the parents and fry but right now the files are too large to post. I'll try to figure out a way to shrink them . Any ideas on how best to do that would be a big help as well. Thanks again


Glenn

[Jennie]

photobucket shrinks automatically

[merk175]

so i post to photobucket and then put the link in my posting?

[Jennie]

Yes, do you have account? once uploaded image to photobucket copy the image url and paste to insert image link here in your reply post

[William Palumbo]

Glenn,

1...I myself would leave the algae alone. It will not hurt the fry. The fry might actually graze on it
2...People do use frozen BBS...powdered flake, and a product called Golden Pearls.
3...You will not be able to leave the fry with the parents no longer than the parents want to be with them. A big, or aggressive spawn can stress the parents out pretty good, making separation that much sooner.
4...As said, some powdered or crush flake...Golden Pearls

All the best with them...Bill

[joshua 74]

with my old blue turk pair the mother raised them till they where about 3 3.5 cm but i removed the male after 2 weeks because they eat there fry and will spawn agen if i didn’t. my fry where all raised on bbs and bloodworm with an aqua one baby past.:D

[merk175]

thanks for all the suggestions. As I mentioned last night, the fry are all attached and seem to be growing already. They've now been attached for about one day. At what point do I try feeding them the golden pearls food? And the follow up question, once they start eating the food, do I separate them from the parents right away or do I let them feed off the parents a little longer?

[Eddie]

thanks for all the suggestions. As I mentioned last night, the fry are all attached and seem to be growing already. They've now been attached for about one day. At what point do I try feeding them the golden pearls food? And the follow up question, once they start eating the food, do I separate them from the parents right away or do I let them feed off the parents a little longer?


I prefer to get them on BBS first and then start adding GP into their diet. I start live BBS at 3 days.

[merk175]

I'd like to Eddie but unfortunately while at work I cannot do the BBS hatching thing. I'm gone most of the day. Should I try frozen BBS first and then go to the golden pearls?

[Eddie]

I'd like to Eddie but unfortunately while at work I cannot do the BBS hatching thing. I'm gone most of the day. Should I try frozen BBS first and then go to the golden pearls?


There really isnt anything to do with them. You prepare the eggs and leave it. After 24 hours, the eggs and hatch and you can feed the fish when you have time. Its easy to just start a batch and start another when the first batch hatches, to have a constant supply of live BBS. Its only temporary anyways, until you get them onto the Golden Pearls.

[John_Nicholson]

Algae never hurts fish. If anything it will help. You can hatch out BBS twice a day. It will take about 10 minutes each time and the fry will be much better off in my opinion. Good luck and enjoy the ride.

-john

[merk175]

10 minutes to hatch BBS? how does that happen?????

[John_Nicholson]

It only takes 10 minutes of your time....LOL. It You put in the salt, the water, the eggs and apply air and light. 24 hours later you harvest them and start another batch....


-john

[merk175]

finally got some pictures uploaded to photobucket...

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/merk175/

will give the BBS hatching a shot...hopefully it goes well. thanks to all for the advice:D

[John_Nicholson]

Here you go.

-john

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/merk175/IMG_1693-1.jpg

[merk175]

over the last 2 days I'm noticing some fry swimming around the bottom of the tank not attached at all to the parents. Each day there have been a few more doing it. This morning there were about a dozen fry at the opposite end of the tank from the parents and breeding site. Why would they detach and give up on feeding???? Any ideas?

[John_Nicholson]

Not sure. It could be that the pair is not making enough slime to keep everyone's belly full so they are looking elsewhere for dinner. Have you started feeding BBS yet? If not I might add that to the program.

-john

[merk175]

Just started the first batch of BBS last night about 9pm. Hoping to have something tonight but will try feeding them tomorrow for sure... Parents still seem to be doing it all right and the fry are getting bigger so hopefully I can transition to other food soon.

[merk175]

brine shrimp hatching is going ok. Some of the fry eat the BBS as they float past them but the fry are basically staying attached to the parents. I assume as the days go by, they will leave the parents more to eat the BBS. Hopefully that happens soon as the parents are starting to look a little battle weary from the process.....Looks like they've got some scrapes on their sides. Have a question about how long the fry typically stay with the parents. A quick timeline:

spawn 10/26
hatched 10/29 ( I assume this is day 1)
fry attached 11/2 ( day 4)
first BBS 11/6 (day 8)

Assuming the BBS process proceeds normally, how long would the fry typically stay with the parents?

[Eddie]

Assuming the BBS process proceeds normally, how long would the fry typically stay with the parents? This is all personal preference. Some breeders keep them for 2 weeks, some 3 weeks, some longer. If the parents are getting torn up pretty good, you may think about moving them as soon as you get them eating live BBS well.

[merk175]

thanks Eddie. How long does it usually take the fry to really feed on the BBS? At this point it seems just a few of them grab one BBS and then head right back for the parent. Most of the fry don't eat any.

[John_Nicholson]

If any of them are eating it them all of them will if they get hungry. If the parents are getting chewed up them I would pull them.

-john

[merk175]

they're starting to eat BBS. I added a picture of them from tonight.....one
week after they attached...10 days after eggs hatched.

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/merk175/?action=view&current=1weekafterattaching.jpg

[John_Nicholson]

Looking good. Welcome to our world fellow discus breeder....


-john

[merk175]

just dumb luck at this point....and of course some good advice from this website. Will update every now and then....

When they are ready to separate from the parents, I plan to move the fry to a 20 gallon tank. At this point there's quite a few of them. Surely I will lose some but I'm wondering how many fry is TOO MANY in a 20 gallon tank??

[Eddie]

Surely I will lose some but I'm wondering how many fry is TOO MANY in a 20 gallon tank??

Maybe not, have to be optimistic. Too many fry for a 20, this would depend on the frequency of water changes and amount. :o

[merk175]

I'm planning on changing 10 gallons once a day initially and then do 15 gallons a day as they get a little bigger....

[Eddie]

I'm planning on changing 10 gallons once a day initially and then do 15 gallons a day as they get a little bigger....


And how many fry? I'd push close to 20 gallons a day and possibly double that.

[merk175]

It's tough to tell how many there are but I'd guess over 100 at this point. I imagine I'll lose some along the way. I hear you on the WC Eddie but being gone all day makes it difficult to do that many WC. I'll just do as much as I can as often as I can and hope for the best. Just wondering, how do you change that much water in a day? I have to siphon out the water and waste with a plastic hose and then fill it back up with buckets. No room for extra tanks to age water. With 4 young, very busy kids at home, finding time (and energy) is not an easy task...:(

[Eddie]

It's tough to tell how many there are but I'd guess over 100 at this point. I imagine I'll lose some along the way. I hear you on the WC Eddie but being gone all day makes it difficult to do that many WC. I'll just do as much as I can as often as I can and hope for the best. Just wondering, how do you change that much water in a day? I have to siphon out the water and waste with a plastic hose and then fill it back up with buckets. No room for extra tanks to age water. With 4 young, very busy kids at home, finding time (and energy) is not an easy task...:(

I'd definitely be doing 2 full 100% on a 20 gallon with 100 fry. Its easy if you set-up for it. Have a storage tank that will hold well over double the capacity of your grow-out tank. Even if you are just manually siphoning, you can drain the tank pretty fast. Using a submersible pump, just pump new water into the grow-out after draining. There are MANY different set-ups out there that can make it easier and faster such as drilled tanks and gravity water feed systems that require you to just turn 2 valves and your done, nothing else. ;) Thats the trick, make it easy to change alot of water and you will have more time to enjoy your pups. Its very important to maintain pristine water in your grow out tanks to prevent disease issues.

Eddie

[merk175]

that's the problem Eddie. I don't have any room for a storage tank. I use tap water, treat it with Prime to remove chlorine and add PH buffer and then dump it in.......5 gallons at a time.....between my 60 gallon tank and two 20 gallon tanks....it's a loooooong sloooooooow process

[Eddie]

that's the problem Eddie. I don't have any room for a storage tank. I use tap water, treat it with Prime to remove chlorine and add PH buffer and then dump it in.......5 gallons at a time.....between my 60 gallon tank and two 20 gallon tanks....it's a loooooong sloooooooow process


Raising fry like that will be very hard.

[merk175]

yep...... I'll do the best I can and see how it goes....

actually, I don't know what I'd do with them all anyway....

[merk175]

everything has been going so well and all of a sudden, the pair have started fighting. Very aggressive toward each other.... Both fish's bellies and face turning yellow , fins extended and then smashing into each other..all while the fry are attached. After watching it for a while, I decided to put a divider in the tank. Now I have one fish on each side of the tank and fry split between the two sides as well. The divider has holes in it (about 1 inch) so the fry can move to one side or the other if they find one of the holes. I don't know if this is a good situation or not but as aggressive as the two parents are being, I'm not sure which is best. I'm going to leave it this way for the night and see how things are in the morning. I might take the divider out tomorrow to see if they start again. If they do, I'll try to get a video clip and load it onto shutterfly. As anyone ever experienced this? Any suggestions?

[Eddie]

No worries Glenn, you can actually keep the pair separated and the fry will go back and forth. Sometimes the male or female needs to get pulled when they are fighting like that.

[merk175]

Funny. I turned off the tank light for the first time since they spawned and came into my office to write the previous post. When I left them, about half the fry were on the male and half on the female. When I went back in after typing the post, almost all the fry were on one side...with the female. Needless to say the male is really agitated....up and down the divider looking for a way to the other side.... I think I'll leave em this way until it's time to separate the fry from the parents completely.. At this point I don't want to lose the fry.

So this is not atypical behavior then?

[Eddie]

Funny. I turned off the tank light for the first time since they spawned and came into my office to write the previous post. When I left them, about half the fry were on the male and half on the female. When I went back in after typing the post, almost all the fry were on one side...with the female. Needless to say the male is really agitated....up and down the divider looking for a way to the other side.... I think I'll leave em this way until it's time to separate the fry from the parents completely.. At this point I don't want to lose the fry.

So this is not atypical behavior then?

I don't think there is a certain typical behavior with regard to breeding pairs, they all are different IME.

[merk175]

any opinion about the whether to leave the tank light on or off overnight at this point? It has been on 24/7 since they spawned.

[Eddie]

any opinion about the whether to leave the tank light on or off overnight at this point? It has been on 24/7 since they spawned.

You can leave the light on 24/7 but it should be dim light, not directly over the tank.

[merk175]

I took the divider out this morning to see if they calmed down and no such luck.. I was able to grab a video clip of them. Any suggestions on whether I should separate these fish and keep them apart?

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/merk175/?action=view&current=MVI_1714.mp4

[brewmaster15]

Glenn,
You can remove one of the parents if the fighting gets bad and you start to lose fry...but I think your problem is a combination of inexperienced parents fighting and I think its from needing to feed more BBS more often...The parents are looking like they are getting eaten raw... what normally happens is fry will alternate between the parents as they get irritated by the feeding....when that happens, one will go to the other and try to switch out the fry...but if both are raw and irritated neither will want them they can fight...

If you remove a parent, and its a large spawn you risk the fry over eating the parent, so its critical that you feed enough bbs and suplimental foods.

Another option is to remove both parents ...by this stage the fry are eating on their own...you technically don't need to keep them together.

hth,
al

[Tito]

Glenn,
You can remove one of the parents if the fighting gets bad and you start to lose fry...but I think your problem is a combination of inexperienced parents fighting and I think its from needing to feed more BBS more often...The parents are looking like they are getting eaten raw... what normally happens is fry will alternate between the parents as they get irritated by the feeding....when that happens, one will go to the other and try to switch out the fry...but if both are raw and irritated neither will want them they can fight...

If you remove a parent, and its a large spawn you risk the fry over eating the parent, so its critical that you feed enough bbs and suplimental foods.

Another option is to remove both parents ...by this stage the fry are eating on their own...you technically don't need to keep them together.

hth,
al

i just learned this with my spawn. I took both parents out. Kids are fine.

[merk175]

unfortunately I only have one hatchery going at a time. Need to get another one as the frozen BBS don't seem to work well. I've also ordered some GP food but haven't gotten that yet. These fry only hatched 13 days ago. Isn't it too soon to remove both parents?

[stephan]

I took the divider out this morning to see if they calmed down and no such luck.. I was able to grab a video clip of them. Any suggestions on whether I should separate these fish and keep them apart?

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/merk175/?action=view&current=MVI_1714.mp4

After viewing the clip, IMO remove one of the parent, problem solve!

[merk175]

I put the divider in so parents are on different sides and the fry is split between them. Also started another brine shrimp hatchery but that's a day + away. Current batch of BBS is starting to hatch but still a while before I have that. Since it's a holiday and we did't get mail today, my GP food won't get here until tomorrow......hope the parents can hang in another day....:(

[merk175]

all is well. one parent on each side of the divider. fry are growing nicely and moving back and forth on the two sides (through holes in the divider). They do seem to favor the spawning site side of the tank though. BBS hatching is going well. So far all is good. Couple questions:

1. fish spawned on 10/26, hatched on 10/29, attached on 11/2. As far as timeline goes, is the hatch day considered as day 1?
2. I've tried to mix in some GP food with the bbs but the fry grab it and spit it back out. I'm not soaking the food in water before putting it in the tank. Should I be doing that? Typically how long does it take the fry to start eating GP?
3. After they eat the bbs they go right back and attach to the parents. How long before I can separate them for good. I'd like to move the fry to their own tank but maybe it's too soon??? If hatch day is day 1, then I'm at day 17....
4. how many times a day should I be feeding the fry. Seems like every time I feed em, they eat......