At what size /age - - Feeding/show tank

[spyder329]

So I have been thinking about this for a while and would like to have all your expert opinions on when its time to move from a bare bottom to a tank with either sand/gravel for show in the house? At what size/age would you say does the growing slow down?

At what age/size do you slow down on your feedings? Or do you not? I am now feeding my 4 inch lovelies 4 times a day a variety of mixed food. Not that I want to or have to slow down on the feedings but, I am sure at some point you should slow down the feedings.

I guess along this same lines when should you slow down on water changes? I am currently doing 70 percent changes 3-4 times a week. Or should I not slow down on my water changes?

-Nick-

[pcsb23]

Hi Nick,

Not sure I qualify as an expert, but anyways ... to answer this it is almost like asking how long is a piece of string. What works for one person may or may not work for another, so many variables!

This is what I do, if it helps. First off I only feed three times a day and my full adults may only get fed twice. I also miss one day a week (Wednesday). Fry get fed more often but only until they are around 25mm SL (1" SL). Then they get fed three times a day. Growth noticeably slows down around the 6 -8 month mark. ime growth is never a straight line even in the early days. Again depending on food types, water and water change routine and genetics will depend when the slow down occurrs but 6 to 8 months is a reasonable "benchmark". I would expect most fish to be around the 12cm SL mark at this time give or take 1cm (5" give or take 1/2").

At this stage I class them as sub adults and they could if you wanted to go into a planted or display tank. I should make it clear that nothing stops you growing out discus in a show tank, I have done it in a high tech planted tank around 5 or 6 years ago. It was a lot more work and I suspect I may have got more from the fish had I grown them out in a BB tank first, but in terms of shape and health they were fine. It was challenging to say the least.

As for slowing down on water changes, again that depends on stocking density and water. On a planted tank some people only do one 50% change a week, others do 2 or 3 in a week at 33%. In the end the fish will soon tell you if water quality is an issue.

[Dutch dude]

I'm by no means an expert. Paul,..yes your defenately qualified.

I agrea on most what Paul has written but my approach is from a diferent angle. I look at the growth and appetite of the fish. I will explain.

The main reason for growing out discus in a BB tank is that it is much easier to keep the tank clean. Clean water is very important to get good growth and healthy fish. In general Discus grow fast in the first 6 months and after that they gradually slow down in growth. Like Paul mentioned the growth is not in a straight line. Sometimes the fish grow fast and some periods the growth is just small. In the periods with small growth the fish often go through shape or color changes. The older the fish become the longer the slow growing periods will be and the les growth they show. When discus are in a period with slow growth their appetite is smaller as well. When fish are in a fast growing period their appetite is larger. The more they feed the more they produce wast. Cleaning and water qualety were the main reasons for the bare botom tank. When the wast levels go down becouse the fish grow slow (near adulthood) it is a good moment to consider to transfer them to a display tank. If you are sure you can keep the water qualety up and are willing to do the significant extra afford to do so, you can move them over to a display tank sooner. If the water qualety will go down the growth will be effected.

Abouth the food and feedings. As long as your fish grow fast you should feed more or more often so they get all the energy and nutrition for the best growth. Imo you should look at their appetite in stead of their age. Some discus grow slow but in a steady rate up to 10 months while others grow very fast in the first 5 months and slow down after that.

Imo in general 1 year of age is a save age to move them to a display tank but imo the water qualety that can be maintained in a display tank should be the point of focus.

[Jhhnn]

I really think that what many people see as a slowing of growth as discus mature is more a matter of perception than reality.

Think about it a little bit. Not that I usually think about discus size in terms of standard length, nose to base of peduncle, it's useful for what I want to say, because it relates more directly to weight and mass than the usual overall length way. We'll look at their bodies alone, as an ovoid disk, disregard the fins.

A SL 4" discus would have a one side surface area of ~12.5", from the formula Area = Pi x R squared. If it measured 1" at its thickest point, It would be reasonable to say that the average thickness was 1/2", giving a volume of ~6.25 cubic inches.

A SL 5" discus would have a one side surface area of ~19.6", and a correspondingly greater max thickness of 1.25", so average thickness would be ~.62", giving a volume of ~12.2 cubic inches.

So a discus whose body is 25% longer actually has a body mass almost twice as large as the smaller fish!

My own limited experience is that maturing fish require more and more food if they're to grow perceptibly, and the math bears that out. A 3-1/2" to 4" SL domestic discus, properly raised, is equivalent to a human teenager, with appetite to match. They're ravenous, and will continue to grow until they're maxxed out at their genetic potential at ~ 2 years old. Getting that last 1/2" of length takes a lot of food over the last 6 months. The fastest growing ones will slow down on growth sooner, while the slower growers tend to catch up somewhat in the second year.

To me, that means young growing discus should be heavily fed and kept in BB tanks until they're at least 18 months old, unless the keeper is content with not so big discus or is willing to do a lot of maintenance on a show tank... People who are content with low stocking levels won't need to do as much work, of course...

How much food? Enough that everybody gets fat bellies every feeding, with a little left over for foraging and snacking in between feedings, at least 3 times a day... and enough siphoning and water changing to maintain excellent water quality at the same time.

[spyder329]

All this information is amazing.. I have a lot to think about before slowing down on my feedings and moving to a "show tank".. Right now they are still eating like monsters.. It's like they are just waiting for me to feed them in the morning and at night.. When I am home on the weekends I get to see them swimming around the automatic feeder about 15 minutes before the feeder is set to disperse.

For now I am going to leave everything status quo as they seem to be eating healthy amounts and I have the time to change the water as many times as I am.

JHHNN -- What you said makes a lot of sense to me as I have a teenager that will eat us out of house and home if we let her..

Dutch_Dude and Paul -- Thank you for your advise, I am still new to keeping discus and all you advise is greatly appreciated. I am like a sponge and soak in everything that I can just so my babies can have the best care that they can have..

-Nick-