Water issues?

[Hopeful]

My dad & I live 45 mins apart from each other, I am on well water & dad is on community water, What we have in comon is we bought our discus fish from the same breeder & we have in home water softeners that use a potassium base salt.We have the same proble our discus r ok for a short time in softener water then start to quiver & flash go off thier feed. All dads discus died within the year. I have 3 left they r now 3 inches, 2 r pairing up she layed eggs, he ate them last night. they r still irritated & not happy. I have tried different medications think gill flukes or somethingthey would get better go back on thier feed then it would repeat,Tried BB, 50% R/O & 50% raw well water with no permanent change,Moved them to Qt and striped & bleached main tank, cycled it with softener water & did the same to dads. we restalked from a local discus keeper. They went in beautifuly & we eating within 15 mins.OMG i was happy. 3 weeks went by& bam it started all over again & to the day dads did the same. None have died but the symptoms r the same. they have not been near the old ones. Here r my water specs.-Raw Well Water- GH 7, KH 10, PH 7.8, TDS 188, iron 1 ppm. possible sulphur or magnisieium smell in cold water.
-Softener Water this is what they r in. GH0, KH 10, PH 7.8 TDS 244, iron 0, still has odour at times on cold side.
-Tank 50 gal 7 2-3in discus 50% w/c every 2 days
ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10 at most, PH 8.0
Dads water specs ir slightly higer than mine. we do not have a r/o unit.
I have raised angelfish & other softwater fish inmy water for 10yrs no problem. this is specific to discus i think. we hope we can keep discus they r a beautiful investment.
any help would be greatly appreciated

[discuspaul]

Sorry Hopeful, can't help you here.
It's a mystery to me - I can't even begin to give a possible explanation or diagnosis from the info at hand, and based on your fishs' behavior. This is one for the experts - could be any number of things - your Dad's fish took a year before all died - first time around - that says something -- many negative things can occur during that period of time.
Where are you located ? Is there any possibility your well water & your Dad's municipal water could be from the same originating source ?
On the other hand - it may not have anything to do with the water at all.
Regrets - this is not my area of expertise.
Paul

[Hopeful]

Hey Paul thanxs for looking. My dads fish died 1x1 over a period of a year just like mine but I still have 3 originals left. I have a private well and dad is on not city but comunity water. We live in Prince George BC. I have to do a water change today & i am going to try my raw well water as sugested by eddie. Im just very worried because of the unknown metals that might be in there. Im afraid to make things worse but i have to try. Thanxs again.

[Hopeful]

can someone tell me if my iron level 1ppm is ok for discus? I have been looking about and cant find a answer.:confused:

[pcsb23]

1 ppm of iron is too high. It is toxic whether chelated or not.

Having read through your description of your water (and your dads) I would suggest investing in a decent RO machine and use remineralising salts and not filtered well/tap water. Don't get too hung up on pH as such or on tds etc for now. The smells you describe cannot be good and the sulphur one could potentially be dangerous.

Without getting a full analysis done the above is the best I can offer.

[flyman767]

If at anytime you smell anything in the water, you run the risk of death and destruction relative to your fish? If you would not drink the water.. than discus certainly should not be living in it. I agree with Paul..if you want to keep discus you need to invest in a R/O and remineralize your water(critical step).

[Hopeful]

I agree a r/o unit is the best, it takes time to save the $. The only reason I havent paid attention to our water is I have raised Angelfish and other softwater fish in it for 10yrs no problems. I didnt think the discus would have such problems(wrong:() and didnt prepare for a r/o unit. My dad wanted company in this discus adventure, it was something we both are interested in and could do together. I unfortanatly dont have $ to buy a unit and was hopeing there was another way. I changed 20 gals with bypassig the softener on the cold side and the fish seem (at this time) ok with it. If it dosent work I will have to buy r/o water.

[Eddie]

I agree a r/o unit is the best, it takes time to save the $. The only reason I havent paid attention to our water is I have raised Angelfish and other softwater fish in it for 10yrs no problems. I didnt think the discus would have such problems(wrong:() and didnt prepare for a r/o unit. My dad wanted company in this discus adventure, it was something we both are interested in and could do together. I unfortanatly dont have $ to buy a unit and was hopeing there was another way. I changed 20 gals with bypassig the softener on the cold side and the fish seem (at this time) ok with it. If it dosent work I will have to buy r/o water.


I wonder if you can get away with running a powerfilter on your storage water container to remove the odors and add this product for the time being. I actually have 2 each 16 oz bottles of this stuff and I can send them to you for free. Let me know

http://www.novalek.com/kordon/rid_metals/index.htm

[Hopeful]

oh my that would be wonderful:D I have found what i hope to be a used food grade 45gal barrel that i can use for a storage tank. i will pm you with my address. I havent seen that product anywhere here and it would help alot. I just picked up bottled water to do a 50-50 atleast this should be better than what they r in. Thanxs soooo much.

[Eddie]

oh my that would be wonderful:D I have found what i hope to be a used food grade 45gal barrel that i can use for a storage tank. i will pm you with my address. I havent seen that product anywhere here and it would help alot. I just picked up bottled water to do a 50-50 atleast this should be better than what they r in. Thanxs soooo much.


We'll get you sorted, stuff will be sent off tomorrow. I have some thing to send off to another member so it won't be a problem. ;)

[Hopeful]

:D

[pcsb23]

bypassing the water softener makes sense, no point adding even more salts to the mix! Good luck with the stuff from Eddie.

[waj8]

The only purpose of your water softener is to remove iron. The softening salt is just exchanging the Magnesium and Calcium ions for Potassium. Since you don't really have hard water, I don't see the need for this. I believe there are filters that will remove just the iron and manganese as well as the Sulpher smell.

[Hopeful]

Thank u Paul for your wishes. I did bypass the softener and am curently useing a 50x50 mix R/O and raw wellwater. I hope the metals will be diluted enough. What did happen tonight after heating( boiled ro and added to well water) this mix is the tank went instantly milky looking when added, i only changed about 15-20 gals.

[Hopeful]

Hi waj8,
you dont think my water is hard? If it is acceptable that would be great. I know that there are in line filters i could use to remove the iron also iron removing units. The problem is lack of space to put it all. I live in a mobile home. Im hoping that if i dilute the wellwater with ro it will even things out. I just dont know about the smell. I wonder if i let the water age if that would rid the sulfer/magnessium(just guessing thats what the smell is)

[Eddie]

Hi waj8,
you dont think my water is hard? If it is acceptable that would be great. I know that there are in line filters i could use to remove the iron also iron removing units. The problem is lack of space to put it all. I live in a mobile home. Im hoping that if i dilute the wellwater with ro it will even things out. I just dont know about the smell. I wonder if i let the water age if that would rid the sulfer/magnessium(just guessing thats what the smell is)


The smell can easily be removed by filtering through carbon.

[Hopeful]

hey eddie, would it be ok to put carbon in the tanks filter aswell?

[Hopeful]

Oh, the smell is gone by the time it hits the buckets, it only smells as is it comes out of the tap. I just dont know what it leaves behind and if that is whats bugging my fish.:confused:

[Eddie]

hey eddie, would it be ok to put carbon in the tanks filter aswell?

I prefer not to use carbon in the aquarium but some people use it. In your situation, it may be beneficial but I'd rather run it on the storage water.

[waj8]

Your water is not hard compared to many. Some people have a GH in the 40s. Your hardness seems to be considered perfectly acceptable to most people on this list. The iron is a problem though as is the Sulfur smell. Hydrogen Sulfide gas is quite toxic to fish although in your case it sounds like there are very low concentrations. You should consult with some one local on possible solutions. Could be that just aerating your water in an aging barrel and filtering the water will get rid of the iron and sulfides. Could be that a green sand filter would do the trick. Being the curious type, I would aerate a bucket of non softened water and run it through a paper coffee filter just to see what I get. Maybe taste the filtered water to see if it tastes different.

[Hopeful]

Hi waj8

I have Koi fish in a outside pond, i have had them for 2yrs. They winter in the pond aswell. I know they are very different from discus and can tolerate alot but they r in raw wellwater and have no problems, they have babys this yr 2. The calcium is caked on the rocks but not to bad I guess. I talked to my local WS and he said that the well will change the hardness and iron will go up with the seasons & rain and feels the best way to go is RO. The soft water has no taste that I can tell except maybe when the smell is there., the well does it tastes like iron. Im going to setup a barrel and mix 50-50 with ro and see what happens. the discus r ok right now but 2 of them dont eat aswell as they did(picking) and seem to be breathing out of 1 gill:( I hope I can get it all staightened about for them.

[Hogman]

I'm a liscensed water and wastewater operator and operate a surface water treatment plant and 2 towns of well plants. Not to mention wastewater package plants and several lagoon systems. Maximum contaminant level for iron in my state is .3 mg/l (.3 ppm). So yes, your iron content is a little high. One of the towns wells i operate has extremely high levels of hydrogen sulfide. They purchased an aerator for the clearwell (water treatment storage before pumping the water to a tower). The aerator was designed to strip iron from water and not hydrogen sulfide and a strong odor (hydrogen sulfide) can be smelled throughout the distrobution system. So, there are different treatments for different things i guess my point is. As far as iron goes, depends on if its sediment or dissolved. In my opinion, ageing your water under good aeration will strip the hydrogen sulfide and may/may not help your iron content. A pre-filter will remove iron and other sediments. Experimenting with storage, aeration, and time then testing will tell. I use API water conditioner for my ageing tank and quite happy with the results. Says it removes heavy metals. So give some things a try and also bypass that water softener for sure. Sorry for long post but it could of been a lot longer lol. Keep things simple! I wish you all the best with your discus keeping.

[Hogman]

I might also add that troubleshooting water parameters through a forum without smelling, tasteing, and seeing it is a difficult thing to do. Depth of well, geographic location, aquifer tapped into ect. ect. add to the difficulty. And, who tested the iron content and what method was used? Might not be a problem at all. Too many subjective variables. Again, aeration, time, and keeping it simple to start out with.

[Eddie]

I'm a liscensed water and wastewater operator and operate a surface water treatment plant and 2 towns of well plants. Not to mention wastewater package plants and several lagoon systems. Maximum contaminant level for iron in my state is .3 mg/l (.3 ppm). So yes, your iron content is a little high. One of the towns wells i operate has extremely high levels of hydrogen sulfide. They purchased an aerator for the clearwell (water treatment storage before pumping the water to a tower). The aerator was designed to strip iron from water and not hydrogen sulfide and a strong odor (hydrogen sulfide) can be smelled throughout the distrobution system. So, there are different treatments for different things i guess my point is. As far as iron goes, depends on if its sediment or dissolved. In my opinion, ageing your water under good aeration will strip the hydrogen sulfide and may/may not help your iron content. A pre-filter will remove iron and other sediments. Experimenting with storage, aeration, and time then testing will tell. I use API water conditioner for my ageing tank and quite happy with the results. Says it removes heavy metals. So give some things a try and also bypass that water softener for sure. Sorry for long post but it could of been a lot longer lol. Keep things simple! I wish you all the best with your discus keeping.


Great info to know! Its great to have some water gurus on the forum. Glad you posted and look forward to more of your input.

Take care!

Eddie

[Hogman]

Thank you Eddie. been fishkeeping 30+ years and got back into discus keeping a year ago after a 20 year lapse when only books were available. Many success and failures through the years. Read these forums every morning with my coffee. Only took a year to pull the trigger. I thank this forum, and each and everyone of you for your knowledge and experiences. What a great tool to have

[Eddie]

Thank you Eddie. been fishkeeping 30+ years and got back into discus keeping a year ago after a 20 year lapse when only books were available. Many success and failures through the years. Read these forums every morning with my coffee. Only took a year to pull the trigger. I thank this forum, and each and everyone of you for your knowledge and experiences. What a great tool to have


Thats great! Your experience is very welcome here. Everybody's input in this community is what makes it so great.

All the best!

Eddie

[wendy9722]

Hi everyone,

I am having water issues and I hope someone will reply soon to tell me what I need to do to fix this problem fast.

I just tested my discus water and my NH3 /NH4 are coming up high. How can it be lowered? I did a 50% wc and added aq salt. I dunno what else to do. Plz help!!!!

Ohh and they seemed to be happy and moving around and ate just fine plus i added decor finally a driftwood peice and pvc pipe and a cave like thing.

[Hopeful]

Hi wendy, even though I'm haveing water issues I do know abit about ammonia in the tank. If you have tested your tap water to make sure it isnt coming from your tap then i would say your biological filter is not able to keep up with the fish load so what i do is 20 to 50% water change every day and use a product called stability from seachem it doesnt take long to get the tank stable. Hope that helps.

[Hopeful]

oh and use prime by seachem it alleviates the ammonia

[Hopeful]

Hi hogman, thank you for your expertise I do belive the iron is dissolved. I am starting to experiment abit with the water, I wanted to see what happened without aeration/filteration so i filled up a jug and let it sit with a open lid for 2 days, it turned a bit browny and cloudy so aeration/filteration a must. I do have to try different things just worried they will be wrong but i am learnig alot here on simply from all you knowledgeable discus loving people. as far as keeping things simple that would be welcomed.

[Hopeful]

LOL. I can smell, taste and bath in it and you guys know more than me. so glad i found this form. My r/o water store tested the water for me im not sure how he tested it but i would think it is basic. I had my lfs test it as well with nutrafin test kit and her level was alittle less it was .5 so i use my ws's of .1. so im hoping to setup a r/o unit here at home aerate/fillter in a storage barrel.

[Hopeful]

I have a fluvel 404 filter on my 50gal, it is such a pain to operate and it always is a fight to restart without all that air being put in the tank. I was wondering what you guys think if I switch to a AC-300 that i have, would it maybe be better for the discus?