Kh and growing out discus

[m.ingram]

Just wondering what would be best kh to grow out discus .My water tap water has 0 kh in it .
Also what is the benefits of raising the kh levels other then a stable ph in a grow out tank .
I have read that some people here use seachem reef builder to raise there kh. How much do you use of this product .
I was just wondering about this sort of thing as i bought some really nice discus off of Rod Lewis and i want to grow them to there full potentual.

[Second Hand Pat]

You might consider either retesting or a different test kit. A kh of 0 sounds odd.

[Eddie]

Just wondering what would be best kh to grow out discus .My water tap water has 0 kh in it .
Also what is the benefits of raising the kh levels other then a stable ph in a grow out tank .
I have read that some people here use seachem reef builder to raise there kh. How much do you use of this product .
I was just wondering about this sort of thing as i bought some really nice discus off of Rod Lewis and i want to grow them to there full potentual.

KH supports/buffers your PH. I use Seachem Reef Builder in a 2 part solution to maintain adequate KH to keep my PH stable. Reef Builder has little to no affect on PH and if you are performing regular water changes, you won't be giving any maintenance doses which may show an increased PH over time.

1/2 level teaspoon per 40 gallons. Extremely costy effective for my ops.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ReefBuilder.html

[m.ingram]

Thanks Eddie I will be doing daily 75% water changes so i think i might have to get some of that reef builder .
Hi Second hand Pat i have tested my water using 2 different test kits also by my lfs all came up with 0 . So i think i will need to add something like reef builder to my grow out tank to help .

[Eddie]

Thanks Eddie I will be doing daily 75% water changes so i think i might have to get some of that reef builder .
Hi Second hand Pat i have tested my water using 2 different test kits also by my lfs all came up with 0 . So i think i will need to add something like reef builder to my grow out tank to help .

Also Mark, whats your GH?

[m.ingram]

Hey Eddie Gh out of the tap is 0 .

[Eddie]

Hey Eddie Gh out of the tap is 0 .

Your gh and KH are both zero out of tap? Thats interesting. Are you 100% sure? You will want to increase your GH also along with the KH.

[m.ingram]

Yes im very sure my tap water has no kh ,gh and a ph of 7 .
In my display tank i use crushed shell grit which raises the gh and kh to 3.
I will get that reef builder and start using that in both my grow out tank and display tank .
Will the reef builder help with the gh as well or will i have to add something else ? What do you surggest i raise my gh and kh in both tanks too?

[Eddie]

Yes im very sure my tap water has no kh ,gh and a ph of 7 .
In my display tank i use crushed shell grit which raises the gh and kh to 3.
I will get that reef builder and start using that in both my grow out tank and display tank .
Will the reef builder help with the gh as well or will i have to add something else ? What do you surggest i raise my gh and kh in both tanks too?

No, Reef Builder is purely for KH but you can add something like this for the GH.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ReefAdvCalcium.html

http://www.petco.com/product/14653/Kent-Marine-Concentrated-Liquid-Calcium.aspx

[boxters]

Mark

I sell a product called pro discus mineral by aqua marin. It is the same as Kent marine ro right. It will do exactly what you want

[boxters]

Zero gh out of the tap makes no sense unless you have a ro unit on the tap.

[m.ingram]

Thanks Eddie I will look intothe products you suggested as well as Boxters .
Hey Boxter i know that it the tests on the water doesnt sound right but thats what i get thats what the lfs gets .

[m.ingram]

What levels should i raise the Kh and Gh too ?

[boxters]

IMO kh 3 gh 3-5

[Eddie]

What levels should i raise the Kh and Gh too ?

Depends, if its for growing young fish out, I prefer hard water (high gh).

KH is basically for buffering capacity and if you do daily big water changes, it doesn't have to be too high. My tap is 2 dH but I have since increased it since I only do 2 water changes a week on my adult tanks.

[Rod]

Hey Mark, I've heard stories about the water down your way, really soft. But wow 0 & 0 is very soft. Sounds almost like pure rain water.

Boxters is right about the discus prominerals, i have used it with great success to add to pure ro water to make breeding water. But to use it constantly with 75% daily waterchanges will be extremly expensive. The standard dose only produces about 1.5kh from memory(fine for an understocked breed tank), so you would need to double dose imo to have stable water. Personally i'd look into making your own product to add to the water. Aim for at least 3 kh, and 6 would be ideal.

Check out the water section for do it yourself recipes, eddie's advice would be a good place to start. Also my good friend Aequifasciatus may be able to help you, he is a water guru. I can remember going to his place one time and seeing his water, he had possibly the most disgusting looking bore water you have ever seen. After several stages of filtering and adding his home made additives, he kept some of the best discus around. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/member.php?u=22979

I hope your discus grow huge!

Rod:)

[flyman767]

KH supports/buffers your PH. I use Seachem Reef Builder in a 2 part solution to maintain adequate KH to keep my PH stable. Reef Builder has little to no affect on PH and if you are performing regular water changes, you won't be giving any maintenance doses which may show an increased PH over time.

1/2 level teaspoon per 40 gallons. Extremely costy effective for my ops.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ReefBuilder.html

+1..My water after 50/50 mix of tap/ro is 7GH and 2KH. I need to use 1 tsp of Seachem Reef Builder to get 4KH. You will have to do some testing of your own water with the product to determine how much you will need. Regardless, I would not recommend using any product directly to the tank; but rather with the water you will change out with future water changes.

[Greenheinie]

I use baking soda to up the kh. My water comes out 2kh. Adding 1/4tsp of baking soda per 5gallons of tap water bumps it up to 4kh.

Not to mention, my fridge is odor-free!

[flyman767]

I use baking soda to up the kh. My water comes out 2kh. Adding 1/4tsp of baking soda per 5gallons of tap water bumps it up to 4kh.

Not to mention, my fridge is odor-free!

I've used baking soda in the past but found it to be a somewhat unstable compared to 'Reef Builder". Also, found it to cloud the water somewhat.

[Eddie]

I've used baking soda in the past but found it to be a somewhat unstable compared to 'Reef Builder". Also, found it to cloud the water somewhat.


+1

[waj8]

Depends, if its for growing young fish out, I prefer hard water (high gh).



What chemical would you use to raise the GH but not the KH. Calcium Chloride? Maybe reef builder is just a mix of that and baking soda.

[babakaty]

Your gh and KH are both zero out of tap?....

Holy Cow Mark! You should be raising Heckels and Altums! How long does it take to get the soap out of your hair?!

[m.ingram]

Hi all thanks for the imput it is really helpful .
I Think i will get some reef builder as alot of people say it quite good and the reef advantage calcium as suggested by Eddie it all seems to be budget friendly .

Hey Rod
Thanks i will send Aequifasciatus a pm.
Yeh the storeys are true really soft clean water down here .No buffering at all. I think its got something to do with the lack of water over the past 5to 7 years so they had to build some ubute treatment plant as the water levels where getting so low.Oh yeh and them beautys you sent me are just getting better and better each day .I look forward to sending you some pictures of them when they are nice and big .Thanks again for Great quality fish you sent me.

Babakaty I wish i had the budget for wilds and altums as i do have the water for them but not the budget .They are quite expensive down here in Oz.

Just a quick on Eddie you said you like really hard water what kh do you have in your grow out tanks .

[Eddie]

What chemical would you use to raise the GH but not the KH. Calcium Chloride? Maybe reef builder is just a mix of that and baking soda.


Seachem Reef Builder is a bit stronger than ordinary baking soda and I like the fact that its clean, no clouding of the water. It does also increase GH a bit but I use another product specifically for that. ;)

Reef Builder ingredients

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198658/i/10/product.web

[waj8]

Seachem is a class outfit. I love the way they actually give you some real information on their product.

It is however pretty much baking soda, epsom salts and Calcium Chloride by the looks of it.

[Eddie]

Seachem is a class outfit. I love the way they actually give you some real information on their product.

It is however pretty much baking soda, epsom salts and Calcium Chloride by the looks of it.


Again, without the cloudiness and less of it. ;)

[billybob]

What effect does a kH of 0 have on growth? Other than a less stable ph.

Any effects on adults other than not being ideal for breeding?

[mmorris]

It is however pretty much baking soda, epsom salts and Calcium Chloride by the looks of it.

This is what I use. I add it to the ageing barrel so it has time to dissolve. No clouding problems and cheap.

[Greenheinie]

I use baking soda every week when doing my 50% water change and have never had even a tiny bit of cloudiness. Not sure what your methods for dosing was, but I mix the baking soda in a 1-liter bottle full of water and pour it in slowly as the tank is getting refilled with water using a python sink hose. Everything is perfectly stable from week to week and nothing but kh is being adjusted.

Controlling potassium/magnesium/calcium (gh) can be done more precicely and cheaper by using Barrs gh booster.

I'm sure reef builder works good enough for most needs, but I'd rather pay $2.50 for a box of arm & hammer than $10+shipping for seachem's stuff.

[Eddie]

What effect does a kH of 0 have on growth? Other than a less stable ph.

Any effects on adults other than not being ideal for breeding?


Nothing really, some people grow fish out nicely in water with 0 KH. ;)

[jimg]

This is what I use. I add it to the ageing barrel so it has time to dissolve. No clouding problems and cheap.

Same here. use them 3 for a long time. But I added whole house filters now I just mix ro with tap.

[Eddie]

I use baking soda every week when doing my 50% water change and have never had even a tiny bit of cloudiness. Not sure what your methods for dosing was, but I mix the baking soda in a 1-liter bottle full of water and pour it in slowly as the tank is getting refilled with water using a python sink hose. Everything is perfectly stable from week to week and nothing but kh is being adjusted.

Controlling potassium/magnesium/calcium (gh) can be done more precicely and cheaper by using Barrs gh booster.

I'm sure reef builder works good enough for most needs, but I'd rather pay $2.50 for a box of arm & hammer than $10+shipping for seachem's stuff.


Aside from the cloudiness, that nobody else experiences, the cost might actually be the same.

Baking soda - 1 level teaspoon raises KH 4 dh per 13 gallons

Reef Builder - 1/2 teaspoon raises KH 4 dH per 40 gallons.

http://www.chelonia.org/articles/waterchemistry.htm


The math is easy. ;)