To Prime or not to Prime

[Tito]

So I've decided to switch to Safe. The powder form. So far I have done two water changes in my show tank above 50% and I have used prime. Both times my fish get clamped fins and head to the surface.

Temp is at 82 F.

What's going on?

I'm using like a 1/4 of a teaspoon.

So far I do not like this product.

[Skip]

dude!! use PRIME.. not OXY-CLEAN! you sure you didn't confuse them?! LOL

[William Palumbo]

Not sure Tito...all I use now is SAFE...the powdered version of PRIME, and never had any problems with it, other than it smells. I use 1/2tsp. per 50gal...Bill

[Tito]

Actually Bill,

That's what I'm using, Safe by Seachem not prime.

As of right now - my Emperor Tetras are all at the surface. My Discus are still clamped.

Why am I getting the impression that the so called "Safe" has depleted the water column of oxygen making the situation "unSAFE".

I'm going to find a webpage that someone wrote about this.

[Tito]

Ok I did some readingon prime and safe. Both do the same thing! remove oxygen from the water and the worst time to dose is at night! Both times I dosed at night.

[Tito]

that's just great just great. I have a a dead emperor tetra and now I have a couple of Discus shedding! Never had a Discus shed in my tank! So much for Safe.

So - what should I do???????

[MSD]

Please, don't knock a great product due to user error. I use Prime on every water change I do, and they are all in the evening. I have been doing this for years with all my discus and never have I had an issue. Our water recently had chlorine added to it and I use Prime before adding the water and my fish swim right into it and play around. There is another reason for your problem, check it out before knocking a good product and starting internet rumors. :mad:

[William Palumbo]

I change the water on my fry 2 times a day, 95% in the a.m. and at night. Fry range from small to thumbnail in size. I am sure I overdose the product, and I NEVER had a problem...Bill

[joshua 74]

not to start a big argument but i think u should give tito a break his discus are not doing to well i think we would all want to blame someone or something. sorry tito i dont know what you can do but i wish u all the best!

[ZX10R]

I use safe also and I would do my WC at night using tap water. The next day my fish would always look stressed and didn't act right for a day. I still use safe but I am aging my water now and haven't had a problem since. I see you changed 50% water but how much water is that and how much safe did you use?

[Tito]

Please, don't knock a great product due to user error. I use Prime on every water change I do, and they are all in the evening. I have been doing this for years with all my discus and never have I had an issue. Our water recently had chlorine added to it and I use Prime before adding the water and my fish swim right into it and play around. There is another reason for your problem, check it out before knocking a good product and starting internet rumors. :mad:

Mark you've got some set ...LOL

1. So here's what I've done.
I took a plastic spoon - teaspoon size. I dipped it into the Safe bottle. Took out a portion of powdered Safe - on the spoon the powder occupied 1/4 of the surface. My temp is se to 82%.

Now - here is the instruction per Seachem:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Safe.html

I don't sell drugs and I don't have one of those scales Tony Montana has - because I'm a telecom tech and I don't make my money that way. With that being said - I haven't a clue as to what 100mg would be. But I could have sworn that someone on the board said they use like a halve Teaspoon or something like that.

Anyhow - I'm dosing for a 125 gallon aquarium.

What is your recommendation? I use a plastic teaspoon. How much of it should I use?

[Tito]

And to anyone else using Safe.

How shoud I dose for my 125 gallon on a partial water change?

[ZX10R]

I am like Bill I use 1/2 teaspoon of safe per 50 gallons of water.

[mlov1022]

On my 150g, when I do a 50-60% w/c, I dose 1&1/2 tsp. Never had any problems what so ever. I think you under dosed.

[Jennie]

for my 125 I dose 1 1/8 teaspoon

[Skip]

everyone seems to be using more tito.. i would probably agree with mlov.. underdose.. maybe it wouldn't hurt to thru in another water conditioner to remove the cholorine that could be there!

[Tito]

On my 150g, when I do a 50-60% w/c, I dose 1&1/2 tsp. Never had any problems what so ever. I think you under dosed.

I think you are right!

So I think what I need to do - since I have a 125 Gallon - need to use a whole spoon to treat the entire volume of the tank even though I'm changing 50%

What do you think?

Im mean - what's with the 100mg stuff? What are we drug dealers, science labs geeks or TV Chefs??

Give me the measurement via Teaspoon - the good old hobby measurement staple!

[roclement]

Tito, safe works very well and it's a great and "safe" product, I use every time doing wc straight from the tap, user error, not bad product.

After all you have been going through with your discus, to do a water change, using a new product, without being sure on the dosage is on you brother! You could have posted and asked before doing it!

Cardinal rule of WC, using SAFE or any pther product, always treat the TOTAL VOLUME OF WATER IN YOUR TANK!!!!

Hope your fish recover for you.

Rodrigo

[DiscusOnly]

I think you are right!

So I think what I need to do - since I have a 125 Gallon - need to use a whole spoon to treat the entire volume of the tank even though I'm changing 50%

What do you think?

Im mean - what's with the 100mg stuff? What are we drug dealers, science labs geeks or TV Chefs??

Give me the measurement via Teaspoon - the good old hobby measurement staple!

If you are adding new untreated water to the tank directly, you are supposed to treat for the ENTIRE volume, not the amount of new water. SAFE is pretty safe so overdoze is not an issue. I almost always overdoze on every WC. I used up a 1KG container in 3 months and pretty much half way into my 4KG container since July. Granted, I do give a small portion to some of the people who buy fish from me and wants to try the product.

[William Palumbo]

Once you figure out the dosage Tito...you won't use anything but SAFE. Goes a L O N G way...Bill

[Tito]

Shame on me! Thankfully all the Discus were doing quite well when I began feeding this morning. I did loose an Emperor Tetra male!

Spoon and a half for me!

MSD - you're such a b buster! lol

[aequifasciatus]

Wouldn't it be marvelous if we didn't need to keep our fish in water?
But...alas, we do so we need to know as much as we can about the medium coming out of our taps/bores/dams/streams/RO's/whereever.

To answer questions relating to water we need to supply as much information as we can
We need a "resume or CV" of your water. You wouldn't apply for a job nowadays without one would you?

Tito, you need to age your water before you use it and make it as close as possible to the tank water parameters as possible to save stressing your fish.
Yeah, I know, it's a pain in the butt to organise all the stuff to do it.
But it's not as big a pain as watching you discus suffer.
I use "Prime" and "Safe" by the bucket-load for years and kept/bred/raised thousands of discus using it.

If your going to use a product, learn quickly what 100 milligrams or any other dosage rate is. DON"T GUESS. There are plenty of good, cheap digital scales on ebay.

Would you play "Russian Roulette" with dosages of meds for your kids? No, of course you wouldn't.

It's a long and frustrating learning curve to keep discus successfully.
Is it worth it?? YOU BET YOUR SWEET BIPPY ITY IS!!!

Good luck

Aequifasciatus

[BOBT00LS]

Hey Tito. The problem you experienced is not due to the safe at all. Your water supply comes from the same source as mine and I can tell you it will happen time and time again if your doing water changes using water straight from your tap. We can get away with it during the warmer months but once the outside temp drops so does the temp of the cold water supply you are mixing the hot with. The drastic difference between the hot and cold mixing creates microbubbles which you do not see in the warmer months. I know its difficult for you to store water but its the only way to reduce the stress.

Bob

[Skip]

Cardinal rule of WC, using SAFE or any pther product, always treat the TOTAL VOLUME OF WATER IN YOUR TANK!!!!

Hope your fish recover for you.

Rodrigo

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... if i do my water changes 1 gallon at a time.. i put the 2 drops in as directed.. is that a problem?! :argue:

[CrazyAngels]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... if i do my water changes 1 gallon at a time.. i put the 2 drops in as directed.. is that a problem?! :argue:

That is exactly the same way I've been doing it using Prime and have not had any issues.

Jorge

[mgarrido]

I switch from prime to safe without problem. The correct dose is 1tsp x 200 gal. of new water.

[Skip]

i assume that SAFE is prefered for large tanks... and my 55/30g, PRIME is still ok..

[Tito]

Hey Tito. The problem you experienced is not due to the safe at all. Your water supply comes from the same source as mine and I can tell you it will happen time and time again if your doing water changes using water straight from your tap. We can get away with it during the warmer months but once the outside temp drops so does the temp of the cold water supply you are mixing the hot with. The drastic difference between the hot and cold mixing creates microbubbles which you do not see in the warmer months. I know its difficult for you to store water but its the only way to reduce the stress.

Bob


Yea Bob,

There was tons of microbubles come to think of it! It was all over the sides of the Discus!

By the way - I can't reply with quote! Anybody experiencing this??

[Jennie]

tito just wait..it takes longer to reload, but it will

[Tito]

tito just wait..it takes longer to reload, but it will

Hum....at my job - almost instantly!

At home - think I'll time it - I wont be surprised if takes an hour! Don't know why???

[MSD]

Must be the Prime.... :p

[Jennie]

hmm wonder if it has something to do with service provider then
Hum....at my job - almost instantly!

At home - think I'll time it - I wont be surprised if takes an hour! Don't know why???

[roclement]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... if i do my water changes 1 gallon at a time.. i put the 2 drops in as directed.. is that a problem?! :argue:

Nope, just for those of us that do WC straight from the tap into the tank, if you removed the clhorine in the bucket, than there is nothing going into the tank either.

Rodrigo

[gsteve]

Im still a bit confused by this. I can understand dosing for the entire tank with you are doing large changes ie 90%. I often do only 20% every other day during the week. I dose for the amount i change. If i were to dose for the whole tank would i be causing any overdose probs? Seems id be adding enuff prime to treat 240 gals in my 65 gal tank over a 4 day time frame. I was under the impression prime was a strong chemical and shouldnt be over used?

[seanyuki]

Just sharing
Seachem Prime

Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. This removes approximately 1 mg/L ammonia, 4 mg/L chloramine, or 5 mg/L chlorine. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html

[Eddie]

Just dose for the amount replaced. Plus, skip buying prime and switch to safe. You will save hundreds of dollars annually.


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