please do not buy discus from rainforest international

[lito2712]

Hi every one I recently bought wild discus from tom ,(rainforest international)and after 2 reschedules
I got my discus, some of them arrived dead , most of them half dead ,all of them were sick ,with open sores and with fin rot. Its been 3 days since I got them and only 4 have survived from the 26 discus
.and also none of the discus looked like the ones in his pictures .on his website. Has anybody else had the same experience from him ? , I have video and pics of how bad this discus look at arrival ,I been having discus for 8 years and this the worst discus I ever received.

[Discusgeo2]

Sorry to hear that Tom sent you some bad Discus but I see you just joined this fabulous forum. If you had known about this site before buying Discus from Tom you would have never gone there. Please do a search for Tom here and you will find several reason to have stayed away from him. I hope you can get the discus you have back into good heath. Please post your photos and in the mean time make sure they have clean water, it's warm around 86 degrees and add a little salt to it to heal they wounds.

George

[lito2712]

Yes thanks for the advice ,I did put some salt ,but apperently they were too sick ,I started a metro treatment on the 4 left ,hopefully I can get those back to health . I have the temp at 86-88 .I had one or two sick but never this many, I had to disinfect all my buckets ,because. I did a water change on one of my. Tanks and I used the buckets where I put the discus when they arrived .and one of my discus started to get the same thing ,(fin rot) .luckly I noticed it right away and I have him in a seperate Tank ,it looks like he's going to be fine ,he's pretty fat and healthy ,hopefully I can put him back in a week .

[lito2712]

im having trouble dowloading pics , it says that my pics kb bites exceed

[peterhql]

you want to use a photo hosting service like photobucket. you load the pics onto there and just link to them on the forum. its free and they dont spam you.

In any case, check this thread out:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?57124-Rainforest-Farms-International...&highlight=rainforest+international

might make you feel better... you are not alone at least? or not...

[lito2712]

i can post emails or links yet, i need at least 10 psts if you want to see pics email me, thanks

[wheelsdeal]

Terrible.I can only assume you get a refund for the dead fish.

[lito2712]

Here's a pic

[PAR23]

WOW......I'm sorry this happened to you....I hope you got a FULL refund......Unacceptable.:mad:

[RudeDogg1]

omg they are horrible

[William Palumbo]

How the hell is this a$$hole STILL getting away with this? Somebody needs to lawyer up and put a hurting on him and his worthless business...Bill

[PAR23]

How the hell is this a$$hole STILL getting away with this? Somebody needs to lawyer up and put a hurting on him and his worthless business...Bill

+1........This guy is nothing but a thief......Should be reported to the BBB.

[RudeDogg1]

I hope your gonna take action after losing 22 discus that must of bee a hell of a lot of money lost

[ockyra215]

Well I have no experience with Rainwater discus but if you spent a good amount of money on 26 fish and he hasnt offered up a refund I would agree a Lawyer is your next step!
Now that your a simply member before you buy check out all the sponsors on here!

[peterhql]

You should just file a charge back through you credit card company. There are avenues of getting your money back... to the detriment of honest small business owners such as myself. You could get your money back through the credit card company even if it isn't the merchant's fault. BUT in this case it is the merchant's fault. Your CC company should offer you some protection.

I'm amazed nobody's mentioned this yet. Especially if you pay with Amex. I haven't had a chargeback in 3 years though. And the chargebacks I've encountered before then were total BS.

[William Palumbo]

Look like wild Greens. What a waste...and a shame...Bill

[lito2712]

And some of this are suppose to be pineapple heckle ,absolutely nothing like the pic on the website

[ockyra215]

I just read a four page post about how bad Rainforest Discus is to deal with and the only people who have stuck up for him only had one post. Sounds like a bunch of crap to me! Like I said stick with the sponsors on this forum they all have what you need want or desire.JMO for what its worth!

[William Palumbo]

I'm sure the only positive was left by Tom...the man himself...Bill

[lito2712]

Thanks for your support. , I got them on wedsnday night , by Thursday I had 6 dead and I calles him and he said he will replace them by next week , he said to call him back on Monday cause. He was going to be out the weekend , I m going to call him Monday morning , hopefully the remaining 4 make
It , cause I hate looking at the fish like this . I will keep you updated thanks

[wendy9722]

WOW, I'm glad that its a bad pic cuz if I seen a good pic I'd probably vomit!!!!
Wendy

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Contact the Attorney General. This has been going on too long.

[Skip]

BOO! that sucks!

[RudeDogg1]

Also don't u have the RSPCA over there? U could get him closed down

[beachcichlid]

I've been mostly a reader of this forum, however this thread compelled me to post; you've been taken for your money by a crook. Those fish look awful. I've talked to the Rainforest Int'l guy on the phone to order another type of fish. I didn't like the way he was dealing with me and I backed out. I recommend, as other posts have, that you cancel the charges to your credit card. I might just ship the fish back to him. If he gives you a hard time, tell him you are prepared to fight by calling his state government offices and filing a complaint.

Simply Members, is there a way for him to name this photo as he posts it to this forum so that it reflects on Rainforest Int’l? Say, he names the photo “rfidiscus.com.” It might return on the first page of a Google search under images. He could write a warning on the photo. If it’s possible, it might be way of alerting future potential buyers.

[CrazyAngels]

This is beyond belief. The sponsors of this forum would never have sent you a Discus if it was not top quality and in great health. That has been my experience with them. I wish you the best in trying to resolve this issue.

Jorge

[josephl]

I'm sure the only positive was left by Tom...the man himself...Bill

Hi all

Just to add a bit of a balanced prespective to this thread and please note that I am posting this as my personal experience but prior to finding out all this information about Tom, I had placed an order with him and the customer service and fish that I got from him was great. Of the many fish I ordered, there was only one that died the next day and Tom was more than happy to provide a replacement. Again, this is just my personal experience and based on this experience, if I didn't have April in Vancouver supplying excellent discus, I would consider reordering from him.

In fact, there is another supplier from Canada from whom I ordered almost $1,000 worth of discus, who is a sponsor on this site who sent me fish in the same condition as described by the original poster and who has made NO EFFORTS to make up for his shipping issues. Karma will get him but thats another conversation for another thread.

[Discusgeo2]

You are dealing with this guy why would anybody deal with him

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/14675/IN/US/

[peterhql]

You are dealing with this guy why would anybody deal with him

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/14675/IN/US/

omg, thats him?

[William Palumbo]

You're one of the few lucky ones Joseph. Not sure what sponsor you're talking about on here...unless it's one of the few that have since been banned...Maybe we have the right to be warned?...Hey George...LOL...I was trying HARD to not bring that up! But yea...very sick! Says a lot about a person...Bill

[Skip]

LOL>>> i was laughing.. !! cuz i can't believe people can stay in bizness like that!! , if that is him in the mugshot!! YIKES!! he scares me!!!

[BODYDUB]

Wow, those discus look awful. Sorry to hear about your bad luck.................And I'm doing a Tom search right now.

[BODYDUB]

I know there's a "what not to buy" sticky, but is there a "reviews" section/sticky???

[kaceyo]

Lito, I would not add any meds to the water for a few days at least, just salt. Give them lots of pure clean water with daily wc's at least untill they start to show some improvement.
Good luck with your remaining fish etc.

[Jennie]

Lot of sick people in this world! 2 years ago and he's not in jail???

[dbfzurowski]

Wow

[William Palumbo]

LOL>>> i was laughing.. !! cuz i can't believe people can stay in bizness like that!! , if that is him in the mugshot!! YIKES!! he scares me!!!

LOL...Only a face a mother(or dog) could love!...Bill

[Skip]

LOL...Only a face a mother(or dog) could love!...Bill

ooooooooooooooh ZING!! its him.. he has his pic on his Rainforest Website.. boooooooo!

[josephl]

You're one of the few lucky ones Joseph. Not sure what sponsor you're talking about on here...unless it's one of the few that have since been banned...Maybe we have the right to be warned?...Hey George...LOL...I was trying HARD to not bring that up! But yea...very sick! Says a lot about a person...Bill

I'm not going to comment on his personal life though I certainly don't approve of it and yes William, it would appear that I was one of the lucky ones which is why I thought it would be fair to him to give everyone on here my personal experience.

As for the other sponsor, I'm not going to name him in the hope that he will do the right thing and make amends though I doubt it seeing as it has beem almost a month since his shipping disaster, he was sent pictures and there has been nothing but dead silence since. As a warning to all members on here, if you are ordering discus from a sponsor FROM CANADA that is not April(just to be clear, April runs a great business) then please PM me before you order and I will give you my sad experiences on how some wonderfully beautiful discus were destroyed by this sponsor who has yet to take any responsibility for his actions.

[Skip]

Jospl.. if you are going to give a review of ANOTHER shipper/sponsor.. then Man up.. and start a thread of your experience.. but don't hijack this thread and smear a sponsor like this..

[Jennie]

so bad Bill!
LOL...Only a face a mother(or dog) could love!...Bill

[lito2712]

I tried posting a review on rainforest international ,but there's no link to do it , there just a testimonial link,but nobody can't post, I read most of the testimonials and they sound like tom wrote them himself.

[Tito]

I think Joseph is Tom! After all - who would even dare to stand up for this guy???


Plus - I knew about Tom from other forums - a lot of people know about this psychotic.

[josephl]

Jospl.. if you are going to give a review of ANOTHER shipper/sponsor.. then Man up.. and start a thread of your experience.. but don't hijack this thread and smear a sponsor like this..

Point taken. I'll start a seperate thread on my poor experience with Dale Jordan however, please keep in mind I started by contributing my personal experience dealing with Tom at Rainforest

[josephl]

I think Joseph is Tom! After all - who would even dare to stand up for this guy???


Plus - I knew about Tom from other forums - a lot of people know about this psychotic.

I'm not sure why you would jump to that conclusion but to each his own I suppose. I was merely stating my personal exprience buying from him. I thought that was the idea of a forum or should it be that because everyone is against him that I should just jump on the bandwagon too?

[Tito]

I'm not sure why you would jump to that conclusion but to each his own I suppose. I was merely stating my personal exprience buying from him. I thought that was the idea of a forum or should it be that because everyone is against him that I should just jump on the bandwagon too?

Dude quit while your ahead! A lot of people in other forums know about Tom and his sick world. It's useless even vaguely vouching for him. And go ahead and name the Simply Discus Sponsor - that way others can go after that sponsor here and validate your story - otherwise....it's you Tom.

[Darrell Ward]

Apparently it's perfectly legal to rip people off via the Internet. People have been doing it since the nineties, and are still going strong. Another example would be "Somethingsphishy". This clown has been ripping people off as long as I've owned a computer, and is still at it, as far as I know. I guess the only thing a person can do, is track him down, and give him a good old fashioned beating!;)

[Skip]

Point taken. I'll start a seperate thread on my poor experience with Dale Jordan however, please keep in mind I started by contributing my personal experience dealing with Tom at Rainforest

yes.. i concur.. your first paragraph was about TOM.. but bringing up the reputation/dealings with a sponsor is a very sensitive subject.. that is why i mentioned the need to address this properly.. in the other thread.. i hope this all gets resolved

[jimg]

I would also add nothing, no meds at all but 1 tbsp salt per 10 gal. temp 84max. lots of wc's lights off. Good luck with them. even if he sends more I would try to save these, it is very possible to do.

[William Palumbo]

I think they may have a chance because they look like wilds. IME, They always seemed hardier than domestics. All the best with them...Bill

[Apistomaster]

I am amazed to learn RFI is still in business.
Soon after I bought my first computer I dealt with him making several orders totaling several thousand dollars of mainly wild Plecos but also a few Discus.
He charged over $600 against my VISA account before sending me any fish. He kept giving me excuses about when the fish would arrive but I told him that charging me before you have the fish isn't kosher then only after putting a charge back on the purchase did I inform Tom. He was more than a little upset but he had burned me on fish he sold as F1 Heckels and F1 Red Spotted Greens.
That alone had made me distrust him but with the catfish it hardly mattered who was selling them for they all came in really run down condition.
The majority of the wild Hypancistrus he sent were misidentified but that was pretty common back then and some were rarer than what I ordered which used to occur often.

[peterhql]

Every single one of you who've been cheated should call your credit card companies to start a chargeback. That's the only way to put him out of business. It sounds like most of you let him keep your money (sounds like hundreds if not thousands of dollars, OMG ppl) To my knowledge, you have 6 months from the date of the charge, which is a REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY long time to figure out you've been screwed.

ps, be honest folks. a lot of good honest hardworking people with families are screwed over by unfair chargebacks.

[dbfzurowski]

You get what you pay for, that's how I see it. Its like buying a mountain bike from target for $70 vs getting a felt or diamondback from a bike shop for $500+, if you know what your doing you will notice a difference. I got my discus from somethingsphishy, not best quality but I still love them and after owning them for year+ I wouldn't trade them for anything else. Now that I know a lot about discus, my next order will definitely be from one of simply sponsors because now I will be looking at getting a quality fish rather then saving $$$$ on it

If he was proven guilty of those charges then I would imagine his sentence would include prohibiting keeping animals! So I dont know

[peterhql]

sorry, you don't pay for dead fish or soon to be dead fish. you also dont pay for "X" and then get a dead "Z". The evidence speaks for itself. Why do simply sponsors that charge LESS money have such stellar records?

[dbfzurowski]

Well, guess I could have looked at the prices on his site, but I assumed they were super low due to continued business with this crappy service

[lito2712]

I called tom this morning and no answer ,I left a voicemail ,haven't heard from him yet .I also called chase credit card agency and started a claim to get. A refund back

[PAR23]

I called tom this morning and no answer ,I left a voicemail ,haven't heard from him yet .I also called chase credit card agency and started a claim to get. A refund back

Good for you......Hope it all works out.

[Jennie]

you'll need supporting evidence for chase, most likely. Do you have photos??

[lito2712]

Yes ,I have of photos , I took pictures from the day I got them,

[Jennie]

should be good to go then

[seanyuki]

Hey dude.....I personally know Joseph and have met him.....he has the right to view his opinions .


I think Joseph is Tom! After all - who would even dare to stand up for this guy???


Plus - I knew about Tom from other forums - a lot of people know about this psychotic.

[Jennie]

Hi Francis he(joseph) sure does, and yes, Tito's post was far out there, but in a different thread about the other specific vendor is more appropriate, yes?

[lito2712]

Update* I got a called back from tom , he said he doesn't have any idea why the discus ,got sick , he said he never had. Anything like this happen . He told me to send him some pics ,I did ,so I'm just waiting for him to respond back, he said if I want he could send some more ,but I said no ,he said this time he will send less in a box and individually bag, but I still said no ,I told him noI wanted a refund . I think that's one of the reasons the fish got so stressed out and got sick. Cause of the packaging ,he put 6-7 discus in each bag .when he shipped them

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Maybe he needs to read many posts here on how to "properly" ship discus. I know there are some youtube videos to help.

This is why I feel if you don't know how to do something, just ask. There are so many knowledgeable people here on SD and for someone to not ask for help even if they think they are a "pro" at it, look at the consequences. Now this guy has to refund hopefully 100% of your money. He will take a loss on 26 poor discus.

The question will be, will he learn his lesson after all this??

[John_Nicholson]

So if the dog enjoyed it is it still abuse......LOL.

The man is a loser.

Sorry you got screwed.

-john

[William Palumbo]

LOL John....The "Dog Whisperer" has been doing this enough to KNOW how to ship. He does what he does, because he gets away with it...for now anyways...Bill

[peterhql]

and he only gets away with it for all these years because people let him. people that accept CCs over the phone and online don't have a chance in hell of keeping their money in situations like these. just ask any merchant, if hes honest he'll tell you. I'll tell you.

[William Palumbo]

I wish I had known that Peter, years ago when I got burned. Hopefully other will know and act upon this...Bill

[peterhql]

a couple months ago i paid a simply member for some equipment. he insisted on a money order instead of paypal. had i used paypal, i wouldnt have lost 90 dollars on broken, dirty and MISSING equipment. the box it was shipped in was 2x the size of the equipment with half a FOLDED NY post newspaper as stuffing. Thats it nothing else. Everything in there was flying all the way to my house. I threw the entire box of broken garbage into the... garbage.

EVERYONE knows how to ship, they are just:
A. lazy
or
B. greedy, shipping materials might actually cost them what 5-10 dollars?

[Skip]

a couple months ago i paid a simply member for some equipment. he insisted on a money order instead of paypal. had i used paypal, i wouldnt have lost 90 dollars on broken, dirty and MISSING equipment. the box it was shipped in was 2x the size of the equipment with half a FOLDED NY post newspaper as stuffing. Thats it nothing else. Everything in there was flying all the way to my house. I threw the entire box of broken garbage into the... garbage.

EVERYONE knows how to ship, they are just:
A. lazy
or
B. greedy, shipping materials might actually cost them what 5-10 dollars?

BOOOOO!!! SHAME ON THAT MEMBER!

[Jennie]

Paypal for your protection..the way to go

[DiscusLoverJeff]

I have been in the shipping industry for over 20 years and "knock on wood" never had an incident with anything going wrong or broken due to my negligence. I have never shipped fish before, but if I ever get to that point, I can tell you one thing, I will ask the experts for help. I would never make a mistake that could result in a situation like this poor guy is going through.

The sad part is, most people don't care as long as they get paid and no one complains. But as soon as someone does, their first response is, "it was not my fault." No? If I received dead fish, you're damn right its your fault for not properly knowing what the hell you are doing!

[mmorris]

I am so sorry to hear about your horrible experience! I know how awful it can feel. Just a reminder that another option is small claims court. It cost me $30 to file in the state of Ma and the papers were served on the out-of-state offending discus seller within a few days. The seller returned the full amount to me without delay. I recommend people keep all correspondance when buying discus, including from the sponsors here, and if a problem develops, take photos and contact the seller immediately. If you have tried to resolve the issue with the seller and he appears unwilling to do so in a reasonable manner, then and only then post negative feedback in the feed back section and pursue your money.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Like We would say in the old fourm Days! OFF WITH his HEAD! LOL! REALLY I mean REALLY He is still jacking people That sucks! I hate HIM.. LOL!

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, no one has beat him within an inch of his life, that's why he still does it. That's the only thing people with no morals understand. Snap off a couple of fingers with bolt cutters, he would be happy to give the guy his money back!

[lito2712]

I talked to tom again. And he said that he will refund the money for the discus that died . I don't believe it until ii see it in my statement.
Even do. I'm getting a refund , I wouldn't recommend rainforest international for discus. I'm going to stick with my local wholesaler .I will keep
Updating on the refund situation and also an update. On the 4 remainding discus.

[BODYDUB]

I did a search with the words "tom and rainforest" but can up with nothing. Anyone have any like to some threads or other search ideas??????

[Apistomaster]

I talked to tom again. And he said that he will refund the money for the discus that died . I don't believe it until ii see it in my statement.
Even do. I'm getting a refund , I wouldn't recommend rainforest international for discus. I'm going to stick with my local wholesaler .I will keep
Updating on the refund situation and also an update. On the 4 remainding discus.

I recommend initiating the charge back and not giving Tom more time to weaken your case or be using your money at his discretion for he has none. A lack of urgency shown by your excessive patience with a well know rip off artist only gives him more wiggle room.
That is why I stopped my payment before informing him so he had no warning time to fabricate a potentially plausible excuse for his reprehensible business practices.

[lito2712]

I did start a claim for a cashback on Monday morning,

[Discusgeo2]

I did a search with the words "tom and rainforest" but can up with nothing. Anyone have any like to some threads or other search ideas??????
http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?57124-Rainforest-Farms-International...

[BODYDUB]

http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?57124-Rainforest-Farms-International...

Thanx. I did read the entire thread and it seems the only people with "positive" experiences were those with only one post; and the one post came from that thread. Very very fishy............

[Skip]

Thanx. I did read the entire thread and it seems the only people with "positive" experiences were those with only one post; and the one post came from that thread. Very very fishy............

i saw that same thing.. it there 1 and ONLY post.. from the same month the thread was started.. nothing since

[jimg]

How are the fish doing? did you try to save them?

[cyberhog05]

ugh! That link to his after hours activity is just awful. I to am wondering how the discus are fairing

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

I cannot understand how anyone who loves fishes and this hobby can buy mail-oder, fishes from the internet. If you like fishes you should be able to look at them and than take them home. This is as it was for nearly a century, and this is how this beautiful hobby should continue. Life ornamental fishes are not a merchandise to be on sale !

best regards from one who loves fishes and does everything to keep them alive around the globe and in aquaria,

Heiko Bleher

[DiscusLoverJeff]

There are some great sellers/breeders here in the SD sponser section like Kenny Discus, Hans, Dale Jordon, Bill Palumbo just to name a few.

The best thing to do in my humble opinion is do your homework. Do the research on the dealer. Ask for advice. Get some feedback. Then, once you have all that, contact the supplier and discuss your options in advance on what if the fish are sick, dead etc. Check with the Better Business Bureau.

There are many options for the discus buyer, its just to what lengths will you go through in order to purchase your discus?

[lito2712]

Three are doing pretty good , only one looks sick , the four are eating pretty good. Should I start the one that looks sick on meds or should I continue with the salt treatment?

[peterhql]

the same reason amazon.com does 30 billion in revenue. PRICE, convenience, selection, quality and this is a company that's only been around for 15 years. This is mostly good for us fortunate enough to know the excellence of our sponsors. Prices for our sponsors stock are still far better than anything I'd find in a LFS add to the fact that I can choose from so many different strains and variety. If I counted up whats available at the 3-4 LFS around me in NJ. I'd have maybe 10 different types to choose from.



Hi,

I cannot understand how anyone who loves fishes and this hobby can buy mail-oder, fishes from the internet. If you like fishes you should be able to look at them and than take them home. This is as it was for nearly a century, and this is how this beautiful hobby should continue. Life ornamental fishes are not a merchandise to be on sale !

best regards from one who loves fishes and does everything to keep them alive around the globe and in aquaria,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

[cyberhog05]

Hi,

I cannot understand how anyone who loves fishes and this hobby can buy mail-oder, fishes from the internet. If you like fishes you should be able to look at them and than take them home. This is as it was for nearly a century, and this is how this beautiful hobby should continue. Life ornamental fishes are not a merchandise to be on sale !

best regards from one who loves fishes and does everything to keep them alive around the globe and in aquaria,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

Heiko
In a perfect world I would love to drive and first hand select my fish. But for me geographically thats not an option. Petsmart doesnt carry quality fish and further more discus. Not everybody has the option of good lfs's. I dont have a decent option for close to 3-600 miles from me. So finding reputable breeders like Hans is my only option.

[Jennie]

Lito Post a pic..

[Jennie]

Heiko, with all due respect, This is exactly how most of us here in this forum obtain our fish. We can only TRUST the seller to do the right thing

[Tito]

Hi,

I cannot understand how anyone who loves fishes and this hobby can buy mail-oder, fishes from the internet. If you like fishes you should be able to look at them and than take them home. This is as it was for nearly a century, and this is how this beautiful hobby should continue. Life ornamental fishes are not a merchandise to be on sale !

best regards from one who loves fishes and does everything to keep them alive around the globe and in aquaria,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

This is exactly how I buy fish. I'm sure someone in Ohio or California or any other state has some AMAZING fish - but if I can't drive ther and see them for myself - I will not buy.

Like I said before - I am anti establishment - with God's blessing I will die that way.

[roclement]

Heiko,

Your statement makes no sense...you make a living out of hobbyists like us who buy your books and go to your website and you are supportive of Colectors like Hudson as well as heavily involved in Discus Shows all over the world...all of us that buy fish on-line almost exclusevily.

Without putting words in your mouth I believe that what you meant to say is that one should be carefull while buying fish via Internet sight unseeing and without knowing the reputation of the seller. Very different than buying from a good breeder/importer that shares pictures of the actual stock, and has a great reputation.

Am I correct? If not I am sorry but you are a hipocrit!

Rodrigo

[Skip]

Am I correct? If not I am sorry but you are a hipocrit!

Rodrigo

Without putting words in your mouth I believe that what you meant to say is.. hypocrite..
am i correct? if i am not.. sorry.. but your a bad speeler ;))

[roclement]

You are correct! I am from Brasil!

Rodrigo

[roclement]

Without putting words in your mouth I believe that what you meant to say is.. hypocrite..
am i correct? if i am not.. sorry.. but your a bad speeler ;))

speeler???? :) :) :)

[Melissa]

Lol!

[jimg]

Three are doing pretty good , only one looks sick , the four are eating pretty good. Should I start the one that looks sick on meds or should I continue with the salt treatment?

Just clean water 82-84, no more salt. If it continues to look sick try a separate tank, maybe a few day dose with metro, but wait and see.

[William Palumbo]

Rodrigo is a breeder...not a speeler!...and a good one at that!...LOL...Bill

[Skip]

speeler???? :) :) :)

figured i would misspell a word also.. ;)))))

ps.. I LOVE BRAZIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................ ............................. WOMEN!!!!!

[lito2712]

Here's a recent pick from today ill try. Later to put more

[Jennie]

normal feces?? If so just continue water changes and salt

[Apistomaster]

Hey Heiko,
Like many others, I live far from any major city and even when one does live in a major city there is no assurance that you will have a local source of quality wild or domestic Discus.
I sell mostly various Hypancistrus and I raise more L134,Peckoltia compta than most anyone in the States and was certainly the first to offer F1's in large quantities yet even from my relatively isolated location thanks to the internet and my reputation I get a lot of business. Buying through the internet was preceded by organizations like the American Killiefish Association where we members traded and sold eggs and pairs through the mail service.
Where and how one gets one's fish is less important than their quality. This is true whether you buy on line or from physical shops.

[jimg]

salt should only be used as a short term bath, not prolonged use, especially with wilds.
change in feces is after the fact, which imo is too late many times.
most wilds are well know to be carriers of internal parasites, plus I'm sure this dealers tanks are cruddy too.
giving metro will knock down the parasite load that MAY be growing due to stress. metro is also an anti biotic.
I would not wait to see white feces. If the fish is still looking sick/not eating it will not hurt to do metro.
I have treated wilds in this condition more than once doing as I suggested above and I still have them!

[roclement]

salt should only be used as a short term bath, not prolonged use, especially with wilds.
change in feces is after the fact, which imo is too late many times.
most wilds are well know to be carriers of internal parasites, plus I'm sure this dealers tanks are cruddy too.
giving metro will knock down the parasite load that MAY be growing due to stress. metro is also an anti biotic.
I would not wait to see white feces. If the fish is still looking sick/not eating it will not hurt to do metro.
I have treated wilds in this condition more than once doing as I suggested above and I still have them!

I agree with this post.

Rodrigo

[Tito]

I think Heiko spoke volumes of truth in his statement.

Appreciate it from my point of view...

I really don't care to kiss butt (playing the game) from anyone and what that basically means for me is that I will not network much at all. That makes me a stranger to a breeder/distributor - this equates to me being treated like another number. Some folks establish a good reputation with a certain sponsor and so that sponsor begins to treat that customer really well - but make no mistake, you are getting treated really well because you are a returning customer. I totally understand the relationship - I totally understand the sponsor's best interest to keep a returning customer happy and I also totally understand a buyer who feels he has established a really good relationship with a sponsor - I get it.

But you guys would also have to get US - yes us, the us guys who for whatever reason don't really care for the politic-ing and game playing. Some of us just rather walk into an establishment and picked them out.

So it goes both ways... but I don't think Heiko misspoke here at all - it was a very real true word.

[William Palumbo]

Wow Tito...you are double lucky...Not only can you walk into a pet shop and afford to pay for their over-priced Discus...you ALSO get a QUALITY one as well. Lucky you. I have no places to "walk" in and by a Discus anywhere near quality or healthy, for the 400% mark-up retail price. I'm moving to NJ...Bill

[peterhql]

bill come on over so i can see your fish. the fish in your avatar look perfect. are those proportions right?

[Jennie]

Agreed..And I'm out here in the Boonies just about. Not too much happening in the way of discus here..one store that I know of, NOT near me. lucky you Tito.
Wow Tito...you are double lucky...Not only can you walk into a pet shop and afford to pay for their over-priced Discus...you ALSO get a QUALITY one as well. Lucky you. I have no places to "walk" in and by a Discus anywhere near quality or healthy, for the 400% mark-up retail price. I'm moving to NJ...Bill

[Tito]

Wow Tito...you are double lucky...Not only can you walk into a pet shop and afford to pay for their over-priced Discus...you ALSO get a QUALITY one as well. Lucky you. I have no places to "walk" in and by a Discus anywhere near quality or healthy, for the 400% mark-up retail price. I'm moving to NJ...Bill
Noooo lol

Actually folks I'm driving distance away from Hans, Discus Madness and Gwynbrook Farms.

I have not been to Hans but I know a few people in the hobby who have been to his place. I know I can always go over there if I wanted to spend some money on Discus. And I've never been to Gwynbrook either. The nine Discus that I bought were all from DM.

To be fair - when I was living in Tampa Florida some years ago I ordered some Discus from Foster & Smith!

[roclement]

Hey Tito I will gladly sell you fish anytime you want it! I'll order them and then sell it to you! You know how they magically appear here in my house via teleportation from the Amazon! No evil wholesalers involved!
Oh I forgot! You may actually believe that Mathias has a Discus Farm in upstate NY where his fish come from... :) in any case, maybe could give up fish keeping and start tourism so you can go visit Discus in the wild...and by wild I mean Florida...oh and in Thailand as well...you know, the natural habitat of hybrid Discus!!!

Rodrigo

[William Palumbo]

LOL...Foster & Smith!...Bill

[Darrell Ward]

"Shoves another handful of popcorn into his mouth"....

[jimg]

Hey Tito I will gladly sell you fish anytime you want it! I'll order them and then sell it to you! You know how they magically appear here in my house via teleportation from the Amazon! No evil wholesalers involved!
Oh I forgot! You may actually believe that Mathias has a Discus Farm in upstate NY where his fish come from... :) in any case, maybe could give up fish keeping and start tourism so you can go visit Discus in the wild...and by wild I mean Florida...oh and in Thailand as well...you know, the natural habitat of hybrid Discus!!!

Rodrigo

Oh I forgot! You may actually believe that Mathias has a Discus Farm in upstate NY where his fish come from... :)

Upstate NY? I thought his "secret seasonal" breeding facility was in California!!!

[goodoo]

When I first got into discus I visited every shop in Canberra. That's the capital city of australia. I found one Discus. Mani is my avatar. I also found one stunted BD, still got him. And a PB who's growing into not a bad fish. I also drove all the way to sydney, 350kms away, to what I thought was the little Amazon of sydney. They had a beautiful website with stolen pictures. By this stage I was in a discus frenzy. Once I got to the shop alarm bells should've been ringing and they were, although I didnt listen to the warnings. Like i said, discus frenzy. Anyway both the fish I bought were sick. One died within two weeks and I managed to treat the other but he never fully recovered. I really learnt from that and not long after found Simply. Now I get disease free fish from Rod Lewis and he is a great guy who puts up with my stalker like phone calls. The first fish I bought was for around $150, not including posting, and I doubt Rod could've made much money out of the deal. I have since bought two more, both from him, and have more on the way. I wish there was a Discus shop here in canberra. Hopefully I'll have my own one day, maybe Tito and Heiko can drop in for a coffee sometime :)

[brewmaster15]

Hi,

I cannot understand how anyone who loves fishes and this hobby can buy mail-oder, fishes from the internet. If you like fishes you should be able to look at them and than take them home. This is as it was for nearly a century, and this is how this beautiful hobby should continue. Life ornamental fishes are not a merchandise to be on sale !

best regards from one who loves fishes and does everything to keep them alive around the globe and in aquaria,

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

In an Ideal world Discus shops would abound all in close proximity to a discus Hobbyist and hand picking would be easy....But Sadly that fantasy does not exist for most of us in The USA and Canada... Perhaps it does in other areas of the world.

This does not reflect the reality of where we in North America live.



My fish come to me from Internet and forum sponsors located 1000s of miles away from me and have for years...even before Simply it was the most reliable way for me to get anything decent.

Oh and BTW>.. I tend to think I Love Fish and this Hobby VERY significantly :)

As for how its been for the last Century.....mail order always played a major role here in the USA...most "quality" fish were thru the back of Magazines...

So I am Sorry, But I'll have to Disagree with Heiko on this one.

Regards,
al

[Tito]

Oh I forgot! You may actually believe that Mathias has a Discus Farm in upstate NY where his fish come from... :) in any case, maybe could give up fish keeping and start tourism so you can go visit Discus in the wild...and by wild I mean Florida...oh and in Thailand as well...you know, the natural habitat of hybrid Discus!!!

Rodrigo

Rod - I already know this. But then again - that's some 90% of all people selling fish not just Discus but every other kind of fish. There are only a handful of TRUE IMPORTERS of fish in the USA. The rest of the folks are called DISTRIBUTORS!

Edit!: I knew I forgot something important here!
I just can't see myself paying expensive shipping fees! I've seen at DM Adult Discus that look just as good as any Discus coming from Kenny - it may be true that someone might say he's pricey - but are you factoring in what you would have paid in shipping. Just like a person here could strongly recommend a sponsor - I could strongly recomend a non sponsor.

To each his own right folks.

[brewmaster15]

Rod - I already know this. But then again - that's some 90% of all people selling fish not just Discus but every other kind of fish. There are only a handful of TRUE IMPORTERS of fish in the USA. The rest of the folks are called DISTRIBUTORS!

Edit!: I knew I forgot something important here!
I just can't see myself paying expensive shipping fees! I've seen at DM Adult Discus that look just as good as any Discus coming from Kenny - it may be true that someone might say he's pricey - but are you factoring in what you would have paid in shipping. Just like a person here could strongly recommend a sponsor - I could strongly recomend a non sponsor.

To each his own right folks.

Tito,
Didn't I just read a thread where you were anti-commercial sellers
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?84164-Why-I-have-been-turned-off...

...and yet now I read this thread.

Personally I don't think you are the anti-establishment mogul you promote yourself as..You spend way too much time here at SimplyDiscus for that.. ..I think you like having fun at the forums members expense... You enjoy the debate... and not necessarily the content of the debate.

Its getting old.

-al

[Tito]

Tito,
Didn't I just read a thread where you were anti-commercial sellers
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?84164-Why-I-have-been-turned-off...

...and yet now I read this thread.

Personally I don't think you are the anti-establishment mogul you promote yourself as..You spend way too much time here at SimplyDiscus for that.. ..I think you like having fun at the forums members expense... You enjoy the debate... and not necessarily the content of the debate.

Its getting old.

-al

I bought fish from one non sponsor and I've betrayed myself.

But by all means - defend your thing my man. I know how it is - it's cool - I get it.

[brewmaster15]

I bought fish from one non sponsor and I've betrayed myself.

But by all means - defend your thing my man. I know how it is - it's cool - I get it.
Tito,
I have Never penalized anyone for buying fish from a non-sponsor even ones I personally may have an issue with...The photo gallery is full of fish from non-sponsors.

However, your attitude is another matter altogether... You like to push buttons... Congrats...You just pushed mine..

You need a vacation.

Have a nice Holiday.

-al

[roclement]

Al...you are still the man! Hector II on break...

Rodrigo

[dielectric]

I am from indianapolis, about an hour from this freak. NOBODY around here will buy anything from him, and we publicly bash him and his sorry fish.

Tommy is a complete loser, rapist, dog molester & crook. I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better and buy his garbage.

A few years ago i made the mistake of buying fish from him. They were not the ones i ordered, had chipped eyes, never ate & died within 2 weeks.

[William Palumbo]

I am from indianapolis, about an hour from this freak. NOBODY around here will buy anything from him, and we publicly bash him and his sorry fish.

Tommy is a complete loser, rapist, dog molester & crook. I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better and buy his garbage.

A few years ago i made the mistake of buying fish from him. They were not the ones i ordered, had chipped eyes, never ate & died within 2 weeks.

LOL...Sorry, your description of him made me laugh...tho not a funny subject. Just think how successful this guy could be had he been a legit person selling quality fish. Sounds like he gets a BUNCH of customers, tho I'm sure not repeat ones, but still, he gets customers AND makes money anyways!...Bill

[Flutter]

We've got a local scumbag. Doesn't deal with fish but is a very smooth talker and an excellent con man. I'll bet your creep is the same. Very smooth until something doesn't go his way. Even though he's such a stinker he keeps going because he's excellent at what he does.

[dielectric]

Tom is a very forceful saleman. He sort of pushes you into things you dont want.

The only reason i ever bought fish from him was because i didnt know any better, and after just moving here from chicago & finding someone local i was all excited. too good to be true of course.

all his customers have to be first time buyers like previously stated.

[Apistomaster]

Hey Tito I will gladly sell you fish anytime you want it! I'll order them and then sell it to you! You know how they magically appear here in my house via teleportation from the Amazon! No evil wholesalers involved!
Oh I forgot! You may actually believe that Mathias has a Discus Farm in upstate NY where his fish come from... :) in any case, maybe could give up fish keeping and start tourism so you can go visit Discus in the wild...and by wild I mean Florida...oh and in Thailand as well...you know, the natural habitat of hybrid Discus!!!

Rodrigo
Bravo, Bravo!
The truth is this is how and where most major discus dealers get their fish. It is simply impossible to run a commercial level Discus breeding operation in North America or Europe at a profit and the comment about the natural habitat of hybrid domestics is the absolute truth.
Larry

[lito2712]

The fish are eating. ,should I still treat them with metro

[lito2712]

They are eating good, should I still use metro

[joshuajames]

does anybody know ware the rainbow international gets his fish from? maybe there could be a way to cut his supply off. i know money talks and all but if his supplier knew what he was up to and what was going on with the fish he sold they mite decide to not do business with him. im sure if he was getting fish from some of the suppliers that some of our sponsers get there fish from he would be black balled. if anything it mite save some fish until he found another supplier.

[joshuajames]

rainbow-rainforest? lol whats the diffrence.

[jimg]

Nope! good to hear. I would give them a few weeks to get back in shape then treat with metro and deworm them. It wouldn't hurt to treat now, but I always waited awhile for them to adjust, then treat them. I know a few others with wilds treat them asap maybe better, I just don't.

[Jennie]

Glad to hear Lito, sorry your thread so hijacked..

[goodoo]

Sorry Lito , I jumped on the bandwagon . I got ripped by a con man when I was getting into discus to. Only I drove 350kms to get suckered. Atleast your getting good advice and Ill let the gurus help you out here. Also a bit of treatment practice ? Good luck I feel for you.

[Skip]

Lito.. how did Mr. Dog Lover fix the situation? did you get money back or what?

[lito2712]

Not yet , I recently got the refund application from chase ,I filled it out and fax it to chase on Tuesday,
I'm just waitingg for them to resspond ,thanks for asking

[Skip]

what did RAINFORST say to you about refund/replace fish?

[peterhql]

It's been over 2 weeks and no refund on your statement, I wouldn't expect one... just gonna have to do it the hard way.

[R1_Ridah]

Heiko,

Your statement makes no sense...you make a living out of hobbyists like us who buy your books and go to your website and you are supportive of Colectors like Hudson as well as heavily involved in Discus Shows all over the world...all of us that buy fish on-line almost exclusevily.

Without putting words in your mouth I believe that what you meant to say is that one should be carefull while buying fish via Internet sight unseeing and without knowing the reputation of the seller. Very different than buying from a good breeder/importer that shares pictures of the actual stock, and has a great reputation.

Am I correct? If not I am sorry but you are a hipocrit!

Rodrigo

Love it... you call it as it is....

[lito2712]

The last I. Talked to. Him he said he was going to give me a refund ,he also offered replacement ,but I just don't want any more fish from
Him. I checked my statement online and no refund yet. I'm just going to let chase handle it

[lito2712]

Great news everybody ,I got my refund from rainforest, thanks to chase.

[William Palumbo]

Good!...Now spend it on a SPONSOR on here!...Bill

[Jennie]

amen!

[vera]

Great news everybody ,I got my refund from rainforest, thanks to chase.



Cool , congrats !!

[lito2712]

what part of chicago u located bill

[Jennie]

He's on the North Side.. can't go wrong with him

[roclement]

Congrats dude! Good to see someone come out on top for a change! Maybe I'll switch to Chase!

Rodrigo

[lito2712]

I believe I purchase discus from him, I think I got some blue cobalts and some red scribblets, very good discus.

[PAR23]

Nice.....Sorry you still had to go through all this.

[fishy_dude]

WOW, I have not been on the forum in quite a while, as I moved over a year ago and gave it all away. Now I am looking at getting back into the hobby and was looking at Rainforest for some discus, glad I logged back on here and looked first. Looks like I should stick with going to see Hans in Maryland.

[lito2712]

Trust me ,the pics on his website look very nice ,but. When they arrived ,they looked nothing like on the pics. I wish I would of gotten into this fantastic website before I order mine .I guess I learned the hard way.

[Arjunpun]

I agree that's why I buy fish from local members here and haven't had any problem yet.

[lito2712]

Hello everybody just wanted to show a small video of my discus show. Tank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtube_gdata_player&v=l1avUcAi_wA

Later I will post one of the remainding wild discus

[Jennie]

Ok are these fish in Vid from that guy?? or different fish?

[William Palumbo]

You need to feed them more! They look a bit thin and stressed. Step up the feedings and waterchanges...Bill

[lito2712]

No this are not the fish from rainforest, this are some that I had before, yes ,ur right bill they do look
Stressed ,but they look better from last week , they were started to get sick ,cause I didn't sanitize the
Buckets and I used some of the same buckets that I used on the sick discus from rainforest. I'm. Doing a 50 percent water change everyday. I feed them 3 times a day ,bloodworms in the morning ,beefheart in the evening,and bloodworms at night. Its jus that most of them didn't eat when they were starting to get sick, but they are all eating fine now.

[PAR23]

You might want to subsitute BloodWorms with something more nutritious.

[William Palumbo]

OK Lito...For my grow-outs, I always feed MINIMUM 2x a day with my BH mix. Morning and at night. In between those 2 feedings, depending on tanks, I will feed quality flakes, pellets, FDBW's and live CBW's...as Peter said...find something more nutritious than the FBW's. Fish may eat them very well, but very little nutrition...Bill

[lito2712]

Where's the best place to get some live black worms

[William Palumbo]

I order mine from Dan @ Aquatic Foods...he's a sponsor on here. VERY clean worms. Also, Al's Freeze dried Blackworms are great as well. I feed both...Bill

[PAR23]

Al's Freeze dried Blackworms are great as well. Bill

+1..Fish love FDBW.

[wendy9722]

How many are left? Do you have pics of the remaining fish?
Best of luck and wishes,
Wendy

[lito2712]

I actually only have two left . They were all doing fine .they were moving and eating good.but this passed Friday two died. Ill take some pics Later of the two that I got left .

[lito2712]

Hey bill r u intrested in taking the 2 discus that I have left. Free of charge .u might have better luck
With them. They might do better with ro water .as I don't have the filter to make ro water.and I don't plan on buying any time
Soon.

[William Palumbo]

Hi Lito...Thanks but no thanks. I only bring in trusted stock from reputable breeders/brokers. Too much going on in the fishroom to have problems. Keep them, they may turn out nice...Bill

[lito2712]

I understand. Thanks

[SScharder]

I am so lucky, early tonight I replace order from him because free shipping.when I check out he doesn't accept paypal and then I cancel my order.

[Apistomaster]

I bought these as F1 Red Spotted Green Discus from RFI back when I was collecting mainly rarer plecos for breeding.
They were obviously not F1 Green Discus of any sort but they were a colorful type of Red Turquoise. They never did produce fertile eggs but I find that has been common to all the Discus I have bought which have been imported from the SE Asian Discus farms. YMMV but mine has not.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/apistomaster/FireDragon-1.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/apistomaster/FireDragon0001.jpg

[kaceyo]

They are amazing Larry. Too bad you couldn't get fry from them.

[roundfishross]

I bought these as F1 Red Spotted Green Discus from RFI back when I was collecting mainly rarer plecos for breeding.
They were obviously not F1 Green Discus of any sort but they were a colorful type of Red Turquoise. They never did produce fertile eggs but I find that has been common to all the Discus I have bought which have been imported from the SE Asian Discus farms. YMMV but mine has not.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/apistomaster/FireDragon-1.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t41/apistomaster/FireDragon0001.jpg

IT REALLY SUCKS THAT YOU CONTINUE TO MAKE NEGATIVE BLANKETED STATEMENTS ABOUT ASIAN DISCUS!!!!

[mmorris]

I only keep Asian and I think I've had more than my share of pairs.

[Altum Nut]

I have known Larry for quit some time and would take his advise in a heart beat which has worked wonders for me in the short time I've kept Discus.
Everyone has different experiences and results when it comes to buying from particular sources.
He has claimed to try out the Asian market but did not work out for him.
In the end...anyone should be entitialed to share thier experience so any new hobbiest can be better made aware of and approach any future purchase at thier own expense.
I like Larry, prefer the wilds or wild looking.
That is just my opinion.

...Ralph


IT REALLY SUCKS THAT YOU CONTINUE TO MAKE NEGATIVE BLANKETED STATEMENTS ABOUT ASIAN DISCUS!!!!

[roundfishross]

the proof that these statements made repetetively by Larry are bougus is overwhelmingly evident.... All you have to do is look at how many forum members have fertile asian pairs. it's irrelevant wether or not you like wilds or wild looking domestics. blanketed statements of this sort almost seem to hinge on raceism or maybee some other form of resentment!!!!



just my two cents!!!!

LEO ROSS

[William Palumbo]

Well Larry has been around, and honestly says what he feels...he tells it like it is, and that's his experience with Asian Discus. I don't think he's being racist. My best luck came from, and continues to come from German stock. Read into it what you will. I do like Asian stock, and will get more strains when I can. I think the quality NOW is incredible. Evident of all the recent spawnings being posted on here. Not so in the past. The Asian stuff that our sponsors are bringing in are top of the line! I drool every time they post the pics! Larry is just being Larry. Let's all be nice!...Bill

[roundfishross]

I have and do keep germans as well.

[roclement]

Back in the day...like all good stories start....i was totaly against Asian imports and my position caused a big fight here on Simply. It had nothing to do with the fish but with how inconsistent it was to get the fish here and how much of a shot in the dark it was between the actual order and what you would receive. I even imported fish and had some luck but mostly not. I was, and am a huge supporter of German fish for both quality as well as consistency, and they breed.

Now a days, with great importers that bring enough fish into the country to demand some consistency of their suppliers, we see high caliber fish coming into the country, mostly free of disease, from Asia, etc...and they breed, at least for me, but are more challenging (some).

I would have no issues ordering fish from Asia, etc, as long as it was from a trusted source. I think the biggest issue is that German fish come from one importer, Hans and he controls his quality as much as Stendker does. Asian, etc, can be purchased from many sources, most not so good as the subject of this thread, but the selected few like most sponsors here are "Hans like" in quality control and selection of stock, I trust them.

Rod

[William Palumbo]

I agree Rod. I think the hobbyist nowadays have it MUCH better than we had it, as far as Discus quality goes. I think those who had the bad experiences will always have a bad taste in their mouth from "back in the day". I know I made room for the newest strains from Asia I could get/afford. The quality was ALWAYS an issue. Anything that made it to breeder size in my fishroom, were poor, unreliable spawners at best. But thanks to a handful of great breeders and brokers, we are now offered some of THE best Discus ever to grace our tanks. Period...Bill

[Apistomaster]

the proof that these statements made repetetively by Larry are bougus is overwhelmingly evident.... All you have to do is look at how many forum members have fertile asian pairs. it's irrelevant wether or not you like wilds or wild looking domestics. blanketed statements of this sort almost seem to hinge on raceism or maybee some other form of resentment!!!!



just my two cents!!!!

LEO ROSS

Not only wildly off topic but I submit that accusing me of being a racist is beyond the pale and is not acceptable according to my understanding of simplydiscus policy. You have a problem with me but you have no basis nor right to accuse me of racism. In that, I have a problem with you. This is something Al should have already addressed with you but since he apparently hasn't I am. *** do Discus from any major source of domestic Discus have to do with anyone's race? I believe and have said so before that I think many Discus are deliberately chemically castrated. This practice is wide spread among dwarf gouramis and at one time even fancy Guppies originating from this major fish farming area. It is business decision designed to make the market dependent on very pretty fish which are given impaired abilities to reproduce at their normally easy rate. Most discus hobbyists are not breeders so most don't have enough experience with enough breeding pairs to notice and the myth that discus are hard to breed helps provide cover. Discus are hard not to raise if the breeders are fertile. That can hurt a large market so steps are taken to protect it since the means to do so have been found to do it. Not everyone practices nor is the method 100% effective or I would never have been able to get to a next but totally fertile generations. My experience has shown me that the fish have the capacity to be much more fertile than most are.
You can take your two cents and shove it.
Having kept and bred many dozens of different pairs of discus bred in and imported from SE Asian fish farms I happened to have encountered a large percentage of infertile pairs. From the few fertile pairs that I kept young from all these descendants were fertile and very productive. It is troublesome and very wasteful to have to raise an excessive number of fish to obtain a single or couple pairs out of 12 or 16. Once I get past the original fish and have some of my own the problems disappear.

My personal preference for wild type discus has never stopped me from breeding and selling 1000's of domestics I bred and raised. I don't care where or who raises the Discus I buy as long as what I buy is fertile. I have been breeding Discus off and on since 1969. Maybe if you had more depth of experience you would have more data.
You certainly should learn how to use your computer's built in spell checking feature next time you use it to spew your bs at me.

[mmorris]

In this competitive, capitalist world, why would the Germans not follow suit? Or do they? They, too, have a vested interest in ensuring that a domestic market does not develop. Do you know what the chemical is? Of the fertile spawns shown on this forum, it doesn't appear that they are dominated by Germans and/or home-growns. If they were, I would be inclined to believe you might be on to something. That's not to say you are wrong. I don't know.

[roundfishross]

Larry you are Simply full of it and you dont like to be called out on it!!!! Your opinions are at best biased and out dated!!! OLD SCHOOL and of no current value!! and once again old fella there is more than ample proof to the contrary do disproove your bogus claims. I do believe that it is plainly written in the forum rules about making negative blanketed statements concearning asian discus but you continue to do so and have been called on it.

sorry you have such thin skin , but maybee this tells us all something about you!!!


my not exceptionally long winded pompassly overstated opinion!!!

Leo ross

[roundfishross]

and by the way maybee you should reread the post I never called you a racist !!! I only implied that you have some form of resentmant thats rooted in something thats factual. because the truth you are trying to put out is nonfiction!!!

[brewmaster15]

All-
My first thought was to Delete most of this thread as it flip flops all over the place..... The way its going now though is unnecessary.... I can't say I even remember how many times I have said this... Its simple really.. ..But I'll quote it again...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?68498-Forum-Behavior..a-friendly-reminder!

Forum Behavior..a friendly reminder!

Hi all,
Its been a long time since I have had to post a thread like this but unfortunately I think Its time I revisit this topic.

First let me say that this post does not apply to 99.9% of the forum's membership that come here day in and day out treating each other with respect and in a civil fashion even when they disagree. Thats the way this community functions best as a whole and to all of you that post like this....Thanks, I and Ryan and all the Mods appreciate the respect that shows to this forum and its community . Its the reason this site is the excellent community and resource it is.

For those that fall in the .1% and think that they need not deal with other members of the forum with respect because they are somehow above it all....This forum is not for you then regardless of what experience you bring to the table. We welcome all hobbyists here , of all experience levels and can learn from each other...but only when we discuss things in a civil fashion and respect one another's diverse experiences and backgrounds. If you don't know who you are, you will if the posts continue to be an issue...If you do know, then I am asking you all one last time to stop with the attitude. Its not necessary to behave in this fashion and it takes away from everyone elses experience here.

Lastly, With all the members we have here, theres always going to be some that will not get along...no problem there... disagree publically but in civil and respectful fashion...if you want to have a go at it on a personal level... take it off the boards....use PMs, emails, telephone, whatever... It won't be tolerated on this forum publically. Period.

Sorry to have to make a post addressing this everyone....but lately we are seeing more and more of these kinds of problems and I have been getting a lot of complaints about this..

Thank you,
Al Sabetta
ADMIN


This thread has lost all usefulness IMO and I am locking it as it is..

-al

.... and just for the general record....I have a life outside the forum and don't read every thread made....members can always report a thread that goes south and a moderator will address it...thank you!