# of discus per tank

[twocat]

What would be considered a ok number of discus per tank as the discus grow.
I have 10 discus that are getting close to 2 ". I know I should be moving them to a 55 soon but as they grow when will I have too many in my 55.

I would guess that there is a easy formula for this like 1 adult discus per --- gal of water.

[PAR23]

Usually it's 1 adult per 10 gallon...

[wendy9722]

From what I have read its 1 discus per 10 gal so you dont stunt there growth. I'm not sure but I think thats how it goes...

[Jhhnn]

From what I have read its 1 discus per 10 gal so you dont stunt there growth. I'm not sure but I think thats how it goes...

Dunno about stunting, but that's the general rule to maintain high water quality w/o extreme diligence. I think it's smart when growing out fish 3" or larger, too, because it really takes a lot of food for them to reach full potential, an amazing amount of food. I'm of the opinion that over feeding growing discus is impossible, but over feeding their tank is quite possible... water quality deteriorates a lot slower in larger volumes of water for the same amount of fish & food, making it a very good thing...

[cgronko]

1 per 10 gallon

[leeishom]

Based on what dick au said: 15, 2 or 3" discuses in a 20G tall.

[Skip]

i started with Quarter size fry, almost 40.. and i have grown some of them to good solid 3".. others not so fast.. but it didn't take me long before i split from the 29g to a 30g & 29g.. i am about to put them into a 55g or 75g (if/when i buy it) so its possible look at my pics in my profile and in my thread "JACK WATTLEY METHOD">. and you can see what i have done in 4 months

[Apistomaster]

I can keep just as many or more juvenile Discus in a 40 gal breeder than I can in a 55 gal.
The popular 55 gal gal tank is one of the worst things that ever became popular in the hobby. They have a terrible volume to surface area ratio and I strongly recommend using nothing smaller than a 75 gal for 10 Discus. I know that does not fit the 10 gal of water per fish rule but a 75 is a heck of a lot better to use than a 55 gal and the amount of floor space needed for either tank is about the same. If you keep up with the water changes and make them at least 70% every 4th day or so 10 adults can do well in a 75 gal.
You will almost certainly get a couple of pairs and if you decide to try to breed them, just the removal of a pair brings you back down to close to 10 gal per fish.
It is often helpful to begin with a smaller tank like a 40 breeder for the initial grow out when feeding is heavy and make a lot of water changes. Only move them to the final larger tank when they are getting over 3-1/2 to 4 inches.
Surface area is more important than absolute volumes. 55 gal tanks are not really quite the bargain they first appear to be as a "large" Discus aquarium. The extra cost for the 75 gal tank is well worth it. The basic aquarium equipment used is about the same cost for either tank.
Here is how the surface areas of 3 tanks compares.
55 gal show 576 square inches almost the same room foot print where you can go with a 75 gal/864 sq in of surface area.
40 gal brdr 648 square inches
75 gal 864 square inches
Few people have ever regretted buying a 75 gal instead of a 55 for their Discus.

[ericatdallas]

I can keep just as many or more juvenile Discus in a 40 gal breeder than I can in a 55 gal.
The popular 55 gal gal tank is one of the worst things that ever became popular in the hobby. They have a terrible volume to surface area ratio and I strongly recommend using nothing smaller than a 75 gal for 10 Discus. I know that does not fit the 10 gal of water per fish rule but a 75 is a heck of a lot better to use than a 55 gal and the amount of floor space needed for either tank is about the same. If you keep up with the water changes and make them at least 70% every 4th day or so 10 adults can do well in a 75 gal.
You will almost certainly get a couple of pairs and if you decide to try to breed them, just the removal of a pair brings you back down to close to 10 gal per fish.
It is often helpful to begin with a smaller tank like a 40 breeder for the initial grow out when feeding is heavy and make a lot of water changes. Only move them to the final larger tank when they are getting over 3-1/2 to 4 inches.
Surface area is more important than absolute volumes. 55 gal tanks are not really quite the bargain they first appear to be as a "large" Discus aquarium. The extra cost for the 75 gal tank is well worth it. The basic aquarium equipment used is about the same cost for either tank.
Here is how the surface areas of 3 tanks compares.
55 gal show 576 square inches almost the same room foot print where you can go with a 75 gal/864 sq in of surface area.
40 gal brdr 648 square inches
75 gal 864 square inches
Few people have ever regretted buying a 75 gal instead of a 55 for their Discus.

I get 624 sq inches for the area of the tank bottom in my calculation for 55G (48x13). I'm a novice in discus keeping but it seems to me the 24 sq inch different would be overcome by the 15 extra gallons of water. I also read somewhere that height was more important to discus keeping that length...

I have a 75G but I regret not paying the extra $15 for a 90G (same footprint). The LFS had a sale on all their tanks for $1/gallon (glass).

At least those are the measurements of my 55G and what's listed at http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/aquariumsandstands/a/tanksizesweights.htm

[Jennie]

I currently have 18 in my 125, various sizes and running with AC 110, a second HOB rated for 70 and 2 sponge filters.. It works, it's clean and fish happy

[discuspaul]

Way to go, discuslover, nothing wrong with that !
I'm an adherant of the 'pros' who now say that the long-time, usually accepted rule of thumb one 1 adult discus for every 10 gals., and pro-rata ratios for smaller discus, is not only outdated, but far exceeds the level of reasonable caution, particularly with the knowledge today regarding the benefit/necessity of w/c's, and technology which has produced superior filtration methods and approaches. If your routine maintains clean tanks & good water quality, then your observation & instinct can tell you if you're seeing any stress from overcrowding - you'll likely know when your fish are unhappy with their circumstances. If you want to keep 12 - 4" discus in a 90 gallon tank, e.g., and you have some idea about water quality maintenance & general tank cleanliness, go for it !

[PAR23]

you have some idea about water quality maintenance & general tank cleanliness, go for it !

I agree with you......HOWEVER caution should be taken giving advise to new hobbist whom may not know how to maintain clean water or observe for signs of stress.....The 1adult per 10 gallon is just a "General Rule"....Outdated or not.....It is a fairly save rule to go by to give someone the best chance to not end up in the Disease section. JMO

[Jennie]

Hey Paul, they all seem to be doing really good...I do change out tank water up to 90-95 percent day+ though, and feed 2x only now too so as far as Packing them in like that, I wouldn't suggest that to anyone unless they are on top of WC, filter maintenance and daily wipe downs. This also hasn't been in play long term to suggest it is wise, still monitoring it. If you think about tanks like forrests or Hans tanks being filled to the max and still being able to maintain healthy fish, it must boil down to clean water, clean tanks and clean filters which = healthy fish. I will also add after being pleased with my AC110 I will be adding a second one to the tank.

[spyder329]

This is great information as I have a 55g with 4 discus and 3 angles... I do keep up on my water changes 2-3/week at 40 gallons at a time and make sure the that my fishes are not stressed. The all eat like little monsters and I can see that they are very happy in their home.. I do plan on moving the discus into a 75 or 90 shortly after the new year and then fill the 55 with just angles.. I would try to ad hear to the 1/10 rule in the new tank but, its nice to know that with the right filtration and proper care you can stretch that limit without stressing the fish out.

[discuspaul]

discuslover:
I'm sure you'll find that adding another AC 110 to your tank will improve your conditions noteably.
I run 2 AC 110's on my 75 gal. (foam pads, floss, & Purigen, mainly) & manage to keep crystal clear conditions at all times, even with 9 - 3.5" +, & growing, discus & some dither fish. I do min. 50% w/c's 3-4 X week, with full wipedowns & filter sand vac's every time. April Ross (April's Aquarium -sponsor) maintains her "own" 125 gal. tank in her store, with 16 fully adult discus (one or two over 7"), and has done so for a long time as far as I know. They're thriving, & getting along spendidly - they look great - & 2 pairs are constantly spawning, so I was told - not sure if that's correct - but I did note 3 cones in that tank.

[Jennie]

Really? That's good to know that it can be done.

[discuspaul]

Yeah, & if you're talking specifically about my comments on April's tank - She knows what she's doing - 20 years' + experience & she is the premier importer/seller of Forrest discus this side of the border. Her fish are probably the healthiest stock you can get in Canada, and her store is no doubt Forrest's "home" outlet in this country - same as Kenny's of Daly City, Ca. is in the U.S. That's my take on it anyway.

[Jennie]

??? Yes I was commenting...you did bring it up after all..Forrest is top notch..so I'm confused to your statement..Are you trying to convince me of something?

[discuspaul]

Not trying to convince you of anything . You said: "really ?, that's good to know it can be done". I assumed you were talking about my little story regarding April's tank - & just in case you weren't aware of her background of experience & her reputation, I was simply trying to fill you in a little. Nothing else intended. Sorry if I was misunderstood, or my wording had you taking it the wrong way.

[Jennie]

ah I do know of her good rep, and will never see he fishstore, but hear is nice.. Considering one of her sources is Forrest, no doubt, she has nice fish

[BODYDUB]

It is one fish per gallon, but I'm not putting one fish in a 10G tank............

[fishorama]

Hmmm...I just hit the 1 year mark a couple months ago but I'm thinking...less is more. I'll be putting 8 adults in a 5ft 120g & hoping for the best, that seems like a lot of fish. Of couse, I'm used to stocking for "hiding bottom feeders" but discus are BIG fish & I'm hoping to get away from the daily(ish) water changes. For me it seems easier to manage, JME so far...

[Jennie]

That's not allot of fish. They should do great!

[BODYDUB]

It is one fish per 10 gallons, but I'm not putting one fish in a 10G tank............
Fixed.............

[Dan W]

I am new to discus and planted tanks in general. I have jumped in with both feet and hope I have a successful adventure with this hobby. I have a 45 day old 120G tank setup with 9 adult discus a few over 6 inches, 5 dozen cardinals, 10 sterbei corys (bad SP?), 4 bristle nose, 8 siemestus, 8 espi rasboras, many plants, CO2 and controller, 180 watts of led lights, 108 watts of t5's, 3 G6 filters, 57 watt UV and an empty wallet. Am I overloaded in this tank? Am I doing enough water changing? Since I started the tank, I have done two 5 gallon buckets of water change in the morning and again in the evening. I do this 7 days a week. I started with many mistakes and will correct/adjust as I continue in the hobby. I know slow and steady would have been a MUCH better start, but I am committed to keeping these fish healthy. Getting help from the 2 closest LFS and doing OK. I had to return one dominate male yesterday. I have had 2 spawning events with the same female and two different males (I think). The first spawn was after a 2 day fight for dominance for the girl. I my surprise the male I thought lost had spawned with the female and they guarded eggs for two days then ate/gone. Two more days of fighting ensued with the same 2 males and the one I thought won the first time spawned with her. He has not allowed the first male to come out or eat for 3 days. The dominant one was removed yesterday and the 2nd male ate like a pig that evening. Like I said, I know I did it all wrong, but really want to make my mistakes work. Am I in your view doing enough volume of water changing at 10g morning, 10g evening 7 days a week? Water is RO with adjustments to KH of 4.5 and GH to 5. PH is set at 6.7 to 6.9 putting CO2 in the recommended range. I am totally/instantly addicted. Thoughts??????

[Skip]

dan W.

OMG>. i my A.D.D. Kicked in reading everything! lol

you have 90 fish.. in a 120?

have you tested Ammonia.. ?
Thats a lot of fish poo going on in the tank.. wow!!

Discus love LOTS OF CLEAN WATER! doing 8% water changes twice a day maynot be enough.. more is always better.. for someone who is new to discus/plants.. man.. you sure did eat the whole enchilada withouth chewing!! :))

there will always be a dominant fish and a fish at the bottom.. they have a Fish CAST system.. LOL>. unless a fish dies.. there is not need to remove fish.. the fish have stronger hearts then their owners.. LOL i would be more worried about the bio load

ps..welcome to SD!

[discuspaul]

Please do yourself a favor, Dan. As Warlock pointed up, I think you need to lighten the bio-load. 90 fish + 9 large discus in a 120 could, & likely will, give you some trouble down the road, especially with those small daily w/c's.

[Jennie]

Even with 9 discus only you need to up those changes to 75% or better daily

[Dan W]

Warlock, I am just now realizing the size of that enchilada; I am starting to feel a bit of indigestion now... My RO can only do 100 GPD and the salts, equilibrium alone looks like it will be $60 bucks a month. Guess I will be kicking up the water change volume starting tonight. I will be more aggressively looking at a way to partially automate the water/brew preparation process. I wonder if I can mix my RO with my well water to get my KH/GH close with less chemical additives without adding lots of things i do not want in the tank? Thanks for the input guys, living on the internet trying to make sure I am doing the right things to keep these fish healthy. I will post pics in a more appropriate place here on SD.
dan W.

OMG>. i my A.D.D. Kicked in reading everything! lol

you have 90 fish.. in a 120?

have you tested Ammonia.. ?
Thats a lot of fish poo going on in the tank.. wow!!

Discus love LOTS OF CLEAN WATER! doing 8% water changes twice a day maynot be enough.. more is always better.. for someone who is new to discus/plants.. man.. you sure did eat the whole enchilada withouth chewing!! :))

there will always be a dominant fish and a fish at the bottom.. they have a Fish CAST system.. LOL>. unless a fish dies.. there is not need to remove fish.. the fish have stronger hearts then their owners.. LOL i would be more worried about the bio load

ps..welcome to SD!

[Jennie]

Dan I would lighten the load up and just keep discus, 2 dz cards and the cory's, and still do large WC daily

[Skip]

DanW..
the Discus would prefer FRESH CLEAN TAP water over RO.. many people of us in SD have fish in TAP water.. if you are new to discus.. you need to decide which fish are your priority.. having plants and CO2.. (thats a whole nother ball game).. you need a solid foundation of fish keeping skills then build up from there... get the disus happy eating living, with good frequent water changes/.. with lots of water changes its very hard to keep the kh/gh/stp/ABC/NBC/ESPN all at consistent levels, hence TAP (you can notice i just use tap!).. they fish are alot tougher and stronger then their owners.. :))) i use to think discus could only be in RO, so i stayed away.. but once i found out you could go with tap. i was ALL IN!!!

this is just food for thought.. its your tank.. take everything with a grain of salt.. and you WILL LEARN from your Mistakes.. may they be small! :)))

[DiscusOnly]

It's all about clean water. I do daily 70% WC in my 75gal with 2 times feeding a day. Number of discus in the tank? About 30-35 young adult that is 4.5"-5" There goes the 10/gal a fish rule.

Yes.. the tank is very crowded and that's the way they like it. I don't spend time testing the water. Just do my routine WC. I also don't feed FBH as much.

[Dan W]

I am a newbie, what is FBH??


It's all about clean water. I do daily 70% WC in my 75gal with 2 times feeding a day. Number of discus in the tank? About 30-35 young adult that is 4.5"-5" There goes the 10/gal a fish rule.

Yes.. the tank is very crowded and that's the way they like it. I don't spend time testing the water. Just do my routine WC. I also don't feed FBH as much.

[DiscusOnly]

I am a newbie, what is FBH??

FBH - Frozen Beefheart. A lot of discus keepers make their own discus food using beefheart.

[Brevcom]

This is good info to know. I have a large 300 gallon tank, so I could stock quite a few discus.

[Jennie]

Yes, with adequate filteration ..you certainly could.

[PAR23]

This is good info to know. I have a large 300 gallon tank, so I could stock quite a few discus.

300G....That's SWEET. Good luck with it.

[Dan W]

someday when I meet the minimum post requirement here, I will post pics of the tank. My post was rejected with a link to an HD video I took last night of my new tank.

-Dan

[Dan W]

only 5 more posts to go.:angry:

[Dan W]

only 4 more posts to go

[scottthomas]

Do you really need RO water? I have lived many places in my life and most have tap water that is good enough for discus in a show tank. I did have well water once that was so hard, I moved because I hated showers, washing etc. so much.

Warlock, I am just now realizing the size of that enchilada; I am starting to feel a bit of indigestion now... My RO can only do 100 GPD and the salts, equilibrium alone looks like it will be $60 bucks a month. Guess I will be kicking up the water change volume starting tonight. I will be more aggressively looking at a way to partially automate the water/brew preparation process. I wonder if I can mix my RO with my well water to get my KH/GH close with less chemical additives without adding lots of things i do not want in the tank? Thanks for the input guys, living on the internet trying to make sure I am doing the right things to keep these fish healthy. I will post pics in a more appropriate place here on SD.

[Skip]

Nah.. only for breeding (most of the time, once egg hatch.. they start adding TAP).. but some have tap water good enuff for hatching eggs.. IMHO.. mixing water is too much trouble and not consistant chemistry.. :)

[Apistomaster]

I have bred wild Discus, all S. haraldi, in water with a pH and a the TDS was as high as 500 ppm.
domestic Discus are even less demanding so about the only times I think there is much to gain by using extreme soft and acidic water is if you are keeping Heckels and Green Discus.
Few have bred Heckels so what you gain when you keep them in very soft acid water is happier and more colorful fish. Wild Greens fall somewhere in between and do not need as soft and acid water as their natural habitat except for breeding because you are apt to get them to spawn easier and hatches from eggs will improve.

Daily water changes may seem like a good idea but wait until you get older and more experienced and you won't be as tempted to keep too many fish in your tanks and you will find that discus do fine if you change about 70% of their water every 3 or 4 days. I personally only get around to about 75% water changes about every 5 days.
More than that is what I consider just unnecessary work and I refuse to be a slave to my fish.
I am their god so I get to decide what they get and when. My Discus live for my pleasure and not the other way around. Other fish like my plecos which I breed receive even less attention. One can learn when is the right time and how much water changing is enough with a little experience because you become aware of what is sufficient. Massive daily water changes are fine if your system is automated but otherwise I think it is for the birds.
I have found it necessary to change more water than 75% and at more frequent interval when growing out fry and juveniles being kept in crowded conditions. That should be obvious but just to keep Discus in good condition for many years you do not have to put so much work into them as some of you do. It is the privilege of everyone who keeps fish to do it in a style which befits them.

[sparkyreed/u.k]

I have a 55 gallon tank and i'll be adding 5 maybe 6, but i'll be doing water changes of over 50% every 4 days. I also feed mine FBH as the Discus will not eat any flake, tetra prima etc. I,m feeding them 2-3 times a day and staving them on the 6 day as i understand Discus need 1 day to digest.

[Jennie]

are you asking for advice?? If so up those changes to 50% min. a day...what else is in the tank?
EDIT:
so I'm seeing this post here where others are advising you to up those wc as well. It may seem like a PITA to you now, but after awhile it becomes second nature. Better to take advice on WC than to have to take it on treating sick fish down the road.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?84389-New-to-Forum.

[Dan W]

While I am a newbie, I am learning a lot in a short period. I am doing 20 gallon/day WC split morning and night so it only takes a few minutes. I am watching and learning the fish and water characteristics as I go. So in my 120 I am changing 140 gallons a week on the 120G tank. If I understand the suggestions correctly, most are suggesting this is not enough for a planted 120 with plenty of dither fish in the tank? I have a female that has laid eggs in the tank for the 3rd time since the fish were introduced into the tank (less than a month). I understand that water testers only tell some of the story, the story I am getting is zero nitrates, ammonia and KH/GH is 4 and 5 respectively. I feel the fish look like things could be better for them (behavior, etc...) but I must say they LOOK healthier every day. The colors are getting better, they look less labored in breathing and I am guessing that this egg laying mite turn out different than the last 2. They are stuck like glue on the eggs and constant breathing on them, none have turned white; time will tell all. In a few more posts, i will have met the minimum requirement to post a picture so I can ask for more evaluative input. In the meantime, any other input you can give me on my 120G with 9 large/medium discus and mates living in. With the water and fish looking good, is it still the general consis that I need to step up the WC volume? Thanks for all the great input. -Dan

[Dan W]

I meant general consensus that I need to step up the WC volume?

[Jennie]

correct Dan.. can't wait to see the pics!

[Dan W]

Forgive me, I misspoke in my previous post; NITRITES are 0, nitrates are <10 PPM

[Dan W]

Sorry to post without info, but this will allow me to post a picture now. LOL...

[Dan W]

The tank (plants) look a bit rough now, since it just came out of a 10 day 88 degree window. It is now set at 85 degrees and these videos are a couple days old;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlOPiTRBrxs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VZelqUtuF0

Let me know what you think, i have thick skin so feel free to be brutal...

[Jennie]

Well, seem to look healthy as of now, breathing is normal..looks great Dan!

[sparkyreed/u.k]

Dan, your tank looks amazing! Keep the good work, just hope i can get mine looking as good. What lighting is that? DiscusLover65 and Dan, sorry if i seem to of dragged my research across to this thread, just seems very hard to get a good thread going, but i guess that comes with time?
Great reading on this thread though has helped alot.

[Dan W]

Lighting is 30 watt Aqua Beam Ultra 1000 Reef White fixtures, I have 4 of these in the lid and two 54 watt T5 HO bulbs for color enhancement. The Cardinal tetras look just like they each swallowed a AA battery and are lit from the inside under these lights. the video does not even come close to the brilliance of those little fishes while viewing live. Almost takes your eyes away from the majestic discus (just almost).

[scottthomas]

IMO- It would be better to do one or two large water changes of 50% to 90% per week rather than many small water changes every day. For one, I would quickly tire of doing two wc/day without an automated system. Second, one large water change will be more effective. When you change small amounts of water at a time, you are actually removing some of the new water with each wc. One large wc will leave the fish with cleaner water and you with less work.


While I am a newbie, I am learning a lot in a short period. I am doing 20 gallon/day WC split morning and night so it only takes a few minutes. I am watching and learning the fish and water characteristics as I go. So in my 120 I am changing 140 gallons a week on the 120G tank. If I understand the suggestions correctly, most are suggesting this is not enough for a planted 120 with plenty of dither fish in the tank? I have a female that has laid eggs in the tank for the 3rd time since the fish were introduced into the tank (less than a month). I understand that water testers only tell some of the story, the story I am getting is zero nitrates, ammonia and KH/GH is 4 and 5 respectively. I feel the fish look like things could be better for them (behavior, etc...) but I must say they LOOK healthier every day. The colors are getting better, they look less labored in breathing and I am guessing that this egg laying mite turn out different than the last 2. They are stuck like glue on the eggs and constant breathing on them, none have turned white; time will tell all. In a few more posts, i will have met the minimum requirement to post a picture so I can ask for more evaluative input. In the meantime, any other input you can give me on my 120G with 9 large/medium discus and mates living in. With the water and fish looking good, is it still the general consis that I need to step up the WC volume? Thanks for all the great input. -Dan

[Dan W]

IMO- It would be better to do one or two large water changes of 50% to 90% per week rather than many small water changes every day. For one, I would quickly tire of doing two wc/day without an automated system. Second, one large water change will be more effective. When you change small amounts of water at a time, you are actually removing some of the new water with each wc. One large wc will leave the fish with cleaner water and you with less work.

Scottthomas, you have brought up a point that I am evaluating now. I am keeping smaller WC in the short run so I do not expose the eggs in the tank that have been cared for over the past 3 days. They are only 4 inches under the surface. I am also getting ready to contact a plumber to come out and plumb a laundry tub in a closet that is behind the wall directly behind the tank. this will give me water and drain 10 inches from the tank through the wall. Being new at this, I am still trying to develop the best strategy for me in water management for the fish and other tank contents. Still looking at the option of tap (well) water vs. RO mix. I really want to thank all the great input from everyone allowing me to sift through the great options I haven't thought of and decide what might work for me.