TL vs SL

[LizStreithorst]

Ragardless of what Hansie says, and how everyone seems to measure their Discus, I must disagree.

Imagine the perfect Discus. It should give the appearance of roundness. (granted, it will have lips sticking out the front). To give the appearance of roundness, the body, sans fins, should be round. The dorsal and ventral must be smoothly blended into the body, AND the caudal should start where the dorsal and anal end, be wide to fill the gap, and should be not much longer.

Look at some pics, or come look at my tank. Many fish will have a long caudal that begins out from the body of the fish. This gives a bigger Sl, but makes for a fish that is not proportioned well.

You can gain a good 3/4" by measuring from mouth to tip of tail in a fish with a bad tail,but it will be an ugly out or proportion fish.

[Jennie]

I go by SL Liz, that's what jumps out at me when I look at the fish..If someone says 4" it should be in body measurement!

[William Palumbo]

I always eye up the body for size. I don't really look at the tail, as I have seen too many varies on a tail. I prefer the more shorter, fuller(wide) tail, as to anything longer or skinnier. I also judge by when a Discus has it's fins clamped, and still looks round...then it's round...Bill

[Dudley Eirich]

I have to agree with Hans. IMO it makes much more sense to measure total length. Trophy fish measurements are always measured that way. Neither the TL nor SL measurement gives an indication of quality or roundness. A good picture is much more valuable for quality determination. However, in general you cannot tell the overall size from a picture.

[pcsb23]

The tradition in the discus hobby is Standard Length. I am a traditionalist.

[LizStreithorst]

I always eye up the body for size. I don't really look at the tail, as I have seen too many varies on a tail. I prefer the more shorter, fuller(wide) tail, as to anything longer or skinnier. I also judge by when a Discus has it's fins clamped, and still looks round...then it's round...Bill

Bill, when you're evaluating a fish you must take the entire fish into consderation. Body size is important. Body shape is importent. But you cannot evauate a Discus when it's fins are clamped. Finnage is an importent part of the Discus. It ain't all about body shape. It's about the overall apearence of the fish. It should be cemetrical in every way and to get the idea of the shape of the fish you must see the fins errect.

I wish I could explain it better. If you're at a show, and evaluting them all by your lonesome, your mind's eye tells you which is best. It's the Gestalt thing.

Oh yeah, and there's the eye size, color and placement thing. And the scales in the body need not be screwed up and without blemishes. It's hard looking at Discus. You can't leave anything out.

[Jennie]

+ 1 Bill and Paul

[William Palumbo]

Hi Liz...I hear ya about the fins. But I have seen, and have had Discus in the past that look only round when fins were fully erect. Elongated, or arrowhead shaped when erect. Those I do not care for. Hard for me to explain as well. But yes, fins are VERY important to me, as is the trailers. I absolutely hate when they are short and stubby...Fins should compliment the body shape, not so much "make" it, at least in my eyes...Bill

[Tito]

It's gotta be a DISC clamped or not!

[fishorama]

I feel bad about my fish...TL, not too bad , SL...not so much, poor babies...

[Jennie]

? why FishOramma?

[William Palumbo]

Let's just start weighing them by the pound!...Bill

[Jennie]

LOL Bill, yours are slabs, no fair

[PAR23]

Let's just start weighing them by the pound!...Bill

That's a great idea....Now my stunted guys have a shot.:o

[Discus-n00b]

IMO, TL. The tail is part of the fish simple as that! Accompany that with a picture and there should be nothing hidden or misleading.

[Rod]

For years i was always a SL person, still am at heart. But when the opposition is stating TL, what can you do? As long as it is clearly stated, i see no problem with either.

[kaceyo]

I go with TL. When I look at a discus, I see the entire fish, nothing left out. The tail is part of what pulls all the parts together and gives it ballance. Besides, my biggest fish sound so much bigger in TL than SL.

[Jennie]

Regardless I suppose of how each person purchasing fish sees the measurement, it's always wise to ask the seller how they measure the fish. That way, no surprises or disappointments

[fishorama]

Let's just start weighing them by the pound!...Bill

Is this post bloodworms & blackworms? Mine have a new chance now!

[mmorris]

I used to use standard length when I was new to the hobby, but it frustrated me because I couldn't figure out what measure people were using and they don't normally state it. It seems that most use total length, so I began to use total length.

[Dudley Eirich]

Just because something is tradition, doesn't mean it makes sense. A major goal of this forum is to communicate information effectively as well as to educate and encourage people new to keeping discus. Since the logical method for measuring a fish is TL, measuring any other way, tends to set apart those who measure differently as the experts or the standard bearers. Don't get me wrong. We need experts and standard bearers, but we also need effective and clear communication. I am a scientist and I can use a lot of scientific jargon to accurately convey information to those scientists with specific knowledge about my area of expertise and who are knowledgeable about the jargon. However, if I wish to communicate with non-scientists and people outside my area of expertise and I use a lot of jargon, I am going to demostrate my superior knowledge about the my area of expertise, but I will miss an opportunity to convey knowledge and educate. The very fact that we have a thread discussing this topic means that it is a point of confusion.

I think another area of confusion relates to people who use alot of abbreviations (LSS, BH, FBS, PB etc). So many times those abbreviations are known by people very familiar to the forum, but to people who are new to keeping discus and are searching for information, those abbreviations become barriers to good communication. If I don't know what a particular abbreviation means, either I eventually figure it out (after some amount of time) or some brave soul asks what is meant by a particular abbreviation and another member answers the question. I know it takes a bit more time to actually type out those terms, but if people would bother to do so, it would greatly assist in communication and education. The easier we make it for people to obtain information, the more people we will have who will succeed in keeping happy, healthy discus. That can only improve the overall state of the hobby.

[ShinShin]

Standard length here.

Mat

[Jennie]

I remember Martha, you did tell me TL, when I bought the sapphs, and I did forget to ask. That was good to know.
I used to use standard length when I was new to the hobby, but it frustrated me because I couldn't figure out what measure people were using and they don't normally state it. It seems that most use total length, so I began to use total length.