Why I have been turned off...

[Tito]

Lately - I say about two years in the making now - I have been on a steady course of depression. But a specific type of depression - fish hobby depression.

It started out in the Marine and African side of the hobby at first, but surely enough it has even made its way into Discus as well.

While I appreciate forums for their unsurpassing value in regards to free information and resources - yet, it is unfortunate that forums shed light on a byproduct that is not so useful or helpful. And that is the business side of the hobby. The countless distributors and breeders jockeying for position and prestige, power and greed. After all - the very nature of any business is to compete and profit. And sometimes the water can get down right muddy in the process.

In all actually - the fish actually do all the work. It's the fish that breed. It's the fish that have to survive and grow in captive conditions. It's in the genes and health of the fish that will make it desirable or undesirable. That humans take care of them, house them, breed them and feed them is really just 1% of the end product. 99% of the product - that is the fish - is handled by nature.

So I would see this back and forth so and so has great Tangs, Clownfish, and Mandarins. SO and so has the best Tropheus, best Mbuna. So and so has the best Discus yada yada ya. We even go as far to naming the variant after somebody - as if it were really them doing the work - when in fact it's the fish doing the work. The translation gets so thick by the time it trickles down to the newbie in the hobby. Is that a so and so Discus - did that Troph come from so and so - it's really obtuse IMO.

All because people want to make money. All because people want to have a name for themselves. The fish hobby - the business side of it - is no different then the sharks in the banking industry or Wall Street. business is business no matter how you cut it.

I was starring at my tank yesterday and just felt like tearing it down! I probably will do it too - in time. Honestly - I really and truly have become disgusted - I even believe the feelings have shown in some of my post both here and in other forums. I think that I will be freed from something dark when I do finally kick this habit - I'm being honest.

Maybe I'll resort to some of my boyhood passions - maybe I'll create a terrarium out of my 125 and get some Newts and frogs with some Danios and enjoy my little eco system. Something to spice up the living room. Yea - I just might do that ....

Fish keeping was fun for me but I'm really sorry to tell you this my friends - it has become a burden and a constantly knawing pain on my psychology. The business side of it is over exposed on all forums - and I am a victim of it.

[mlov1022]

:crazy: :rolleyes2:

[brewmaster15]

Lol....Good luck I think you'll find this in everything you do as a hobby...Its no different with Herps BTW...I keep those and breed them also.

Just because theres a commercial aspect to a hobby doesn't mean you need to focus on it..... when I look at my fish I see fish...nothing else.

If your Fish no longer bring you pleasure, then you are right, Its time to move on.

Good luck,
al

[Jennie]

Someone get Tito back on his Tryptophan!

[Altum Nut]

TITO,

Sorry your feeling this way.
I suggest you post in the Disease/Sickness and Medication section
As you mentioned...there are people with greed/money hungry and there are people who just enjoy regardless the money loss.
You have to do what is best for you and what your heart desires.
Whatever the choice...I have loved your one liners in the little time I've been here and consisder you a good simply buddy even though I don't know you personally.

Good luck with all,
...Ralph

[Tito]

LOL - I love the crazy smiley!

Al - no doubt you are right. It can happen in any hobby. But I seriously doubt that corruption has slipped into herps as it has in the fish industry. It's not so much the fish I'm tired of - it's all the stuff that comes with it. Honestly - I think that people who just buy a couple of simple items like gold fish and platies are problably better off then me. It's when you become familiar with the inner workings that you get zapped.

Like I said - this is really something thart has been building up for a few years now. More frustration than depression. and my keywords are in my title "turned off".

So if you want to be a comedian on my expense and focus on depression by all means help yourself. But the feeling is more of a turn off than any other feeling.

[ashaysathe]

I think its self burnout. I feel hobby is great is how one paces it out with what one expects. If the arithmetic is pair of discus = $300 (assume), 100 fry in 6 weeks , sell @ 10 each = $1000 aka $700 profit in 8-10 weeks (1000 - 300) and if this does not happen then the frustration creeps in. Same is the case with hedge fund, so in the case with commodity trading.
But look at it this way - u starring at the tank get the best fish money can buy and look at it while having coffee (not emotional - presenting your scenario from other side of the tank) instead of seeing dollar bills floating, u see good fish - nothing different than Tangs, Mandarin or sea lions.

I decide to sail ..

[Jennie]

Tito, You are frustrated and bored and extreme! You've tried several species of fish, I take it, and here you are at the discus level. Trying to breed 30 beauts for your 125 So where does it go from here.. do you need to be content with what you accomplish or persevere to create the perfect discus?? I can tell you whether it's fish or plants for a terrerium you'll experience the same as you express here today. Now sit back, shut up and enjoy your damn fish so We can enjoy your company a little longer

[Tito]

I'll even be a littel omre specific as well.

ORA Mandarin, Tank Raised Clownfish, Electric Blue Jack Dempsey, the various domestic Discus strains, neon Danios, Parrotfish, well the list goes on and on...

What do all of these items have in common? For me - it's a high price tag - for the latest and greatest fad that's out. Things like that - now don't get me wrong - it makes the world go round and that's fine with me in that respect. In other words I am totally aware that it's all good - same can be said for the latest Xbox game - it's the world - I get it.

But like everything else for me - I'm simply on a mission to remove myself from the controlled madness as much as posible. It's like my wife coming back from Walmart at 6am Friday morning and telling me that people were fighting at the Walmart - probably over a line or an item - hum...Black Friday. LOL

But it all goes along those lines for me - my thinking - about my fish hobby as well as other things in general. But in this thread i speak of my fishkeeping woes and how I'm turned off!

I'm sure this sentiment has a great deal to do with my religiosity as well - I'm just not a part of the system - it's cool.

[Skip]

tito.. come on now.. how can you have "fish hobby depression"? .. maybe you should take time off from the forums, it seems to be the root of your problem.... just enjoy your fish for what they are.. your hobby..

don't let it bother you.. that people would try to make a few dollars after the MANY DOLLARS put into their hobby.. i don't think any of the sponsors/hobbyist do discus as a FULLTIME JOB? (except for maybe Mr. Hans) i don't see a problem with people using the forums on internet at FREE ADVERTISING..

hope you work through this..

[Tito]

Tito, You are frustrated and bored and extreme! You've tried several species of fish, I take it, and here you are at the discus level. Trying to breed 30 beauts for your 125 So where does it go from here.. do you need to be content with what you accomplish or persevere to create the perfect discus?? I can tell you whether it's fish or plants for a terrerium you'll experience the same as you express here today. Now sit back, shut up and enjoy your damn fish so We can enjoy your company a little longer

LOLLOLOL

I love it!

But honestly - really - I'm being real earthy here - i am tired of the establishment - never the creatures. Fish and all creatures - my goodness - I've always been fascinated with them and will always be - but again, it's really the MAN (Human) side of things that you can count on for the let down.

[peterhql]

don't go quitting on life now too. you'll have to move up into to the mountains and become a hermit to avoid whats bothering you with fish lately. what you describe is a part of every aspect in life. what car do you drive? what clothes do you wear? even what food do you eat? hah what faith do you believe in? you name it, it's a part of the "establishment" can't escape it, you might as well play along.

[PAR23]

Hey Tito......Is this one of those threads where we have to get touchy/emotional again with you and convince you to stay so we can all hug it out......

[Skip]

GROUP HUG!!!

http://www.profilethai.com/wallpaper/large/profilethai_group%20hug%20with%20pooh%201024.jpg

[Tito]

lol
You guys are crazy!

No we wont be needing to hug and weep here.

It's really more of a vent.

[PAR23]

lol
You guys are crazy!

No we wont be needing to hug and weep here.

It's really more of a vent.

That's cool.......venting is needed and helpful at times.......Just remember, a good psychotherapists charges $150 for 45 mins....How's that for corruption and greed....

[Skip]

lol
You guys are crazy!

No we wont be needing to hug and weep here.

It's really more of a vent.

Try Cigerettes! ;)

[roundfishross]

tito check your pm

[peterhql]

my emergency room charged me 180 dollars for 2 tylenols.

[PAR23]

my emergency room charged me 180 dollars for 2 tylenols.

None of which went to the docs I can assure you.....

[Skip]

my emergency room charged me 180 dollars for 2 tylenols.

DUDE!! i can ship you for FREE!! bottle of 60 for $100! ;)

[PAR23]

DUDE!! i can ship you for FREE!! bottle of 60 for $100! ;)

It's the inflation cost in NJ......:)

[peterhql]

well they charged me that... i paid something else...

[Jennie]

Here's one for you..motherinlaw on an ambulance ride..unconscious.. 10,000 for a 10 mile trip! Priceless!!

[peterhql]

i guess i got off easy, the charge for my ambulance ride was 375.

[Jennie]

and they wonder why no money for medicare..anyway, those fees argued down and settled for much less, but really? 10,000..I was floored when the statement came..and I'm not often speechless!

[peterhql]

too many people can't or won't pay a dime, so for us people that can pay something we get ludicrous charges like that. and yes I was charged many amounts. I paid something different... as I have no insurance.

[dbfzurowski]

Competition between vendors is what makes this hobby possible and affordable for most people. Imaging if there was just one guy selling discus, or heathers or w/e... that my friend would be depressing. Competition brings out quality. It is not in my interest to argue here but I've had my fish for over a year now and still no fry, so I definitely do not agree that its 99% on fish to produce the stocks our beloved sponsors carry.
I can't imagine why this would depress you...

[Jennie]

cash pay is cheaper..as far as insurance have you considered catastrophe insurance? Can't run to doc for aspirin but useful for serious illness.

[Dutch dude]

Hi Tito,

Let me start that I have nothing against you in person but I don't like the way you handle things on this board. I have seen posts come by were you clearly try to provoke people and when they bite you start wining or turn everything into one big joke. You act like the world is against you. You are making it so hard on your selves! Why on earth? Things won't always happen like Tito has planed and the real world is diferent to what Tito considers as the ideal world. I suggest to get over it, stop wining, grab yourselves together and start looking for posetive things in live and learn to enjoy and apreciate them. This is not abouth the hobby but this is all abouth how Tito looks at the world.

[roundfishross]

Competition between vendors is what makes this hobby possible and affordable for most people. Imaging if there was just one guy selling discus, or heathers or w/e... that my friend would be depressing. Competition brings out quality. It is not in my interest to argue here but I've had my fish for over a year now and still no fry, so I definitely do not agree that its 99% on fish to produce the stocks our beloved sponsors carry.
I can't imagine why this would depress you...

+1 competition brings down prices and makes it affordable for folks!:)

[Altum Nut]

Seriously Tito,

I sit now parked at the end of a dead-end street because I work for the city and I could do so....I say to myself there is something else bothering Tito like society itself and not anything related to being a fish hobbyist.
I myself have been down that road where the fact of just dealing with society made me sick.
With the help of close friends/family who opened up to me made me realize what life really has to offer and what you make of it.
I tell you as a fellow brother, yes it bothers me that friends/family are well off financially or have a bigger house than me but now I say good for them. It bothers me when my kids say "Daddy my friends have this or that why can't I have it" and I can't give it to them.
Not sure if any of this is even close to what your are feeling, but if it is...give me a PM and I'll listen to you bro.

...Ralph

[peterhql]

Seriously Tito,

I sit now parked at the end of a dead-end street because I work for the city and I could do so....I say to myself there is something else bothering Tito like society itself and not anything related to being a fish hobbyist.
I myself have been down that road where the fact of just dealing with society made me sick.
With the help of close friends/family who opened up to me made me realize what life really has to offer and what you make of it.
I tell you as a fellow brother, yes it bothers me that friends/family are well off financially or have a bigger house than me but now I say good for them. It bothers me when my kids say "Daddy my friends have this or that why can't I have it" and I can't give it to them.
Not sure if any of this is even close to what your are feeling, but if it is...give me a PM and I'll listen to you bro.

...Ralph

+1, we all go through this in life, on many different levels. good post.

[Jennie]

Ralph is right, Tito..and really it doesn't matter if one has money or not...money is not everything but always seems to be something missing in our lives, and it isn't until what we have is gone, that we realize just how rich we really are/were

[aalbina]

Sorry - just can't seem to get past yet another attention seeking thread with your name on it Tito ... I actually couldn't even get through reading all the responses. Good luck whether you're here or on some Herp forum. If it's peace you're looking for my friend you won't find it in any outside endeavor - peace comes from within.

Adam

[Justice]

Here i am thinking i hope Tito does not notice designer jeans, i mean there always seems to be the latest fad and man o man what price tags so Tito don't get frustrated about that too and stop wearing Pants..........PLEASE!!! :D

[YSS]

Set your house to 82. May be you will feel better.

[Skip]

Set your house to 82. May be you will feel better.

HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[yim11]

Sorry - just can't seem to get past yet another attention seeking thread with your name on it Tito ... I actually couldn't even get through reading all the responses. Good luck whether you're here or on some Herp forum. If it's peace you're looking for my friend you won't find it in any outside endeavor - peace comes from within.

Adam

+1

[peterhql]

what is a herp. i cant help but think of herpes...

[brewmaster15]

what is a herp. i cant help but think of herpes... reptiles and amphibians :)

Tito, I'll humor you a tad further....No one says you need to support the "industry" at all....You have the tank... sounds like you have the experience....Go native Dude... Fishing pole or trot line...visit a local lake...and catch yourself some sunfish or perch..I hear in NJ they even have abundant 2 headed mutant ones. :)
Theres even a forum for it... http://forum.nanfa.org/

and its commercial section is tiny....maybe just what you need.

-al

[Jennie]

ROTF!

[dbfzurowski]

I love fishing:) I caught a ~6-7inch pike this summer, man I wanted to keep it, but it probably wouldn't be a good tankmate since I used a bluegill for bait.

[Skip]

i can get rid of a HERP.. right?! :computer2:

[dbfzurowski]

quick PP bath will do the job:)

[peterhql]

I'd say that for every one person that seeks attention, there's about 10 others that would love to give it. We need each other, keeps it interesting.

[Tito]

WOW!

I didn't even know this thread developed this way. But I so love everyone's comments! Man - some of you are really coming out from the gut! A lot of ground was covered and I really enjoyed reading everyone's comments! Definitely not seeking attention - just sincerely sharing thoughts. And - I think Al is right on target as far as the Biz goes - it is what it is. Ummm - 82 degrees! The cure all! LOL But can I have it in Clearwater Florida heehee

Yes as many of you can smell - um..I mean tell - I am definitely anti establishment. By nature - I am spermatozoa - I am a salmon - I always swim against the stream!