FLUKES are crazy indestructible

[peterhql]

So I had a case of flukes between two tanks. I treated one tank with a 2x dose of pure prazi for 2-3 weeks. It worked as I had no signs of them for months. 2nd tank I never treated and it has been dry for months. I recently used a power filter from the 2nd untreated tank and I've been using a mag drive for draining from the 2nd tank also. The power filter I cleaned and rinsed for what seemed to be hours and the mag drive I left dry for months too. Maybe the mag drive was not as dry as I thought?

THE FLUKES ARE BACK a day or two after I let these two objects touch my water.

[Jennie]

Such good friends they are peter!

[peterhql]

Yea, they really don't bother me much at all anymore. You get used to it, I mean what are you gonna do... START FROM SCRATCH? but yea definitely indestructible.

[nc0gnet0]

I am not buying the fact that the flukes were re-introduced via the equipment that was dry for months. Either you already still had flukes or there is another source producing producing fluke like symptoms. Even if you had re-introduced the flukes (highly unlikely) from the equipment from the dry tanks, first the eggs would just be hatching (flukes themselves long since dead), and second, their numbers would be so minimal at this point I doubt they (the fish) would be showing any symptoms yet.

I still still think that alot of the time, we see the symptoms and autmatically assume flukes, when if fact there are many things that can produce the same symptoms, and this is how they get such a reputation as being indestructable.

[peterhql]

The only thing I can think of besides the equipment is my water storage barrel. I've been doing water changes straight from the tap for 2 months. I've only just started using the barrel again for a week straight before i noticed symptoms. Now I've never sanitized this barrel, but then again it was COMPLETELY dry as well.

I know often times many people say that it may not be flukes if you don't confirm it with a scope. What I am humbly asking is, since I do not know, what else could it be?

In my case,
- I had fish breathing from one gill. (not all but say 2-3 out of 10 fish)
- fish scratched and flicked themselves against anything they could get themselves on, not constant, but intermittently
- when treated with prazi, closed gills would open up pretty quickly (seemed like less than 2 hours) and flashing would stop.
- when prazi was removed with WCS. Within 2 days symptoms would reappear. My water is fairly warm 85 degrees.

edit - I should clarify, that this recent occurence may not be flukes I guess because I have not noticed any clamped gills yet, just flashing. The earlier example of my case was during my previous treatment with prazi.

Thanks,
Peter

[Rex82]

High nitrates will make fish flick and breath out of one gill. fighting will as well. When under treatment fish will breath out of both gills as there is less oxygen in the water and the fish will have to work harder to breathe. Is your water storage barrel food grade? if not i could prob put money on it thats where the problem lies.

[peterhql]

it is a brute rubbermaid 55 gallon from Home depot.

[Rex82]

Thats a garbage bin? Am i correct? It will most likely have a mould resist in the plastic. You mentioned the problem went away when you done changes from tap?

[peterhql]

yes there was no scratching whatsoever during the months I did straight from the tap. Anyone else have this problem with brute trash cans? I know alot of other people on the forum use these.

[Jennie]

Peter, what are your parameter readings?

[peterhql]

Peter, what are your parameter readings?

Lol I wonder if i still have a test kit lying around somewhere.

[Jennie]

you're kidding me right??

[peterhql]

I do regular water changes and regular maintenance on filters preserving the bio media each time. I avg 3x a week 50-70 percent wc. I haven't tested my water in over a year. Do you want me to test for nitrates? Otherwise i believe that most discus folks would know very quickly if their tank was not cycled. Fish behavior, water clarity, water smell being most obvious.

[peterhql]

I love the smell btw

[uberdave]

Have you tried a med for flukes and worms called wormer plus?

[Jennie]

well, you should test, with a kit that isn't expired. Nitrates can build up overnight..test it before your next WC.

[Jennie]

in otherwords, parameters should always be tested when problems arise and the problem isn't evident!

[PAR23]

Thats a garbage bin? Am i correct? It will most likely have a mould resist in the plastic. You mentioned the problem went away when you done changes from tap?

I'm sorry Rex but you lost me here.....Are you saying the Rubbermaid bins are not good to store water in and yes they are garbage bins.

[Eddie]

Also, unless you verify with a microscope, you cannot cry wolf. ;)

[PAR23]

Also, unless you verify with a microscope, you cannot cry wolf. ;)

Welcome back dude.....Hope all is well:D

[Eddie]

Welcome back dude.....Hope all is well:D

Thanks man, been in travels and now finally settled in, in Texas for a course. I have some time after class so I can respond finally. Looks like the disease section has been over flowing. :(

[PAR23]

Thanks man, been in travels and now finally settled in, in Texas for a course. I have some time after class so I can respond finally. Looks like the disease section has been over flowing. :(

Welcome back to the states......Yeah man, many looking for you for guidance.

[Eddie]

Welcome back to the states......Yeah man, many looking for you for guidance.


Thanks, I think Pappa John's already has my room number, name and pizza preference down perfect. I LOVE PJs garlic butter and pizza. Its my craving while I'm in the states, that and cheesecake factory. LOL

Sorry for the chit chat peterhql

[PAR23]

Thanks, I think Pappa John's already has my room number, name and pizza preference down perfect. I LOVE PJs garlic butter and pizza. Its my craving while I'm in the states, that and cheesecake factory. LOL

Sorry for the chit chat peterhql

I hear you....The things you miss when its not readily available. Love chessecake factory and so does my 6 yr old. Yeah sorry Pete.

[peterhql]

i like chit chat, that garlic sauce is so good, but feels so bad for you.

[kent1963]

At what level do nitrates cause problems? Mine are at 50-60 ppm out of the tap.

[Jennie]

50-300 ppm depending on fish species(is lethal). below 20 ppm is best for discus

[Eddie]

At what level do nitrates cause problems? Mine are at 50-60 ppm out of the tap.


Thats too high IMO. This article debates it but I wouldn't keep my fish in nitrates above 40 if at all possible. I generally keep mine at 10 or below.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/watercare/a/nitrates.htm

[Rex82]

I'm sorry Rex but you lost me here.....Are you saying the Rubbermaid bins are not good to store water in and yes they are garbage bins.

Over here in OZ alot of plastics used for bins etc have a mould/midew resistant in the plastic. caused all sorts of problems in my fishroom. at a guess i would imagine it would over there as well. also when i used the black irrigation pipe for airline i had issues as well. swapped for food grade hose and instantly had hatches.

[kent1963]

OK Apparently I miss converted mg/l to ppm after a quick test and visit to my local water source site I see my error! actual readings at the plant 5.86-7.84 mg/l = 5.86-7.84ppm not 58.6-78.4 ! WHEW

[goodoo]

Im from oz and I use a 240 litre blue paper sulo bin. Should I be worried ?

[Rex82]

Im from oz and I use a 240 litre blue paper sulo bin. Should I be worried ?

I would think that it wasn't food grade plastic. Probably made from recycled plastic as it's cheaper to make. I use a fish tank as i know it is safe. The 500L plastic water butt from bunnings is definitely not food grade as i found out..lol

[brewmaster15]

In the USA the common Grey garbage bins by rubbermade are foodgrade plastic....or they were when I bought mine 5-6 years ago for use as water storage bins...I called and checked with the MFG.

Fluke eggs (worms) are not known to last more than a few days of being dried (Dieter Untergasser)
However many other parasites (protozoans) have been known to.....and these also can cause flashing and attack the gills.

The Only way to know for sure is a microscope but even then, if flukes are seen, people tend to freak out if they see a fluke or two...Low level flukes outbreaks on adult discus are generally asymptomatic..meaning no symptoms. Flukes may be the hardest thing to get rid of, but they are probably also the Biggest Scourge on a Hobbyist's Psychological well being with regards to the relative health of their discus,IMO. :)

al

[PAR23]

In the USA the common Grey garbage bins by rubbermade are foodgrade plastic....or they were when I bought mine 5-6 years ago for use as water storage bins...I called and checked with the MFG.

Fluke eggs (worms) are not known to last more than a few days of being dried (Dieter Untergasser)
However many other parasites (protozoans) have been known to.....and these also can cause flashing and attack the gills.

The Only way to know for sure is a microscope but even then, if flukes are seen, people tend to freak out if they see a fluke or two...Low level flukes outbreaks on adult discus are generally asymptomatic..meaning no symptoms. Flukes may be the hardest thing to get rid of, but they are probably also the Biggest Scourge on a Hobbyist's Psychological well being with regards to the relative health of their discus,IMO. :)

al

Thanks Al. Good to know as I use Rubbermaid Brute bin for aging my water. To your point regarding carriers vs disease state.....this is probably the most frustrating part for me in keeping fish.....You can do everything "right" and they still get sick on you. I just remind myself from time to time that they are still just fish......primative immune system in the world of animals.