2012 NADA Convention Show Challenge

[Larry Bugg]

We now know that the 2012 convention and show are going to be in Atlanta and it will be sometime in mid to late June. That gives us 18 months from now to the show. We all know that it takes about 1 year to grow out a juvie to adulthood. So here is the challenge. You have a couple of months to plan what you want to work with and then it is time for action. Get as big a group of juvies as you can with the intent of finding 1 or 2 show fish among them. A good read to help you along with this is Dick Au's book Trophy Discus. Dick goes through great detail explaining how to end up with a show quality fish. I entered a fish in the first show and I can tell you it was exciting. This time since I know well in advance I plan to have a really nice fish or two to enter.

So I will start this off. I have a group of Dale Jordon's fish being delivered this coming Thursday. I originally decided to get some of Dales's fish because I really love the classic old school look he is going for but now I have another goal for this group of fish. They are going to be grown out with the intent of finding that show quality winner. How about you? Is there a special strain you have always wanted to work with? What stain do you think are to die for? Find them, get them and start working toward the goal of growing out the best in show for the 2012 NADA convention. There is absolutely no reason you can't have the winning fish.

Larry

[yim11]

Larry speaks the truth! ;)

For the inaugural NADA show, I had about the same 18 month time frame and took a group of RSG fry from one of my spawns for sole purpose of growing out the best fish I could for the show. I knew I would enter more but I wanted one that I could put high hopes on for winning.

That fish won 2nd place in the spotted class, beating fish from some very well recognized commercial Asian breeders and/or exporters. The award looks great on the wall and is the pride of my fish room. The fish is spawning as I type this and my initial thought is "potential 2012 winners on that cone".

If I can do it anyone can, I promise.

[John_Nicholson]

Quit your damned bragging.........

-john

[inmisawa]

Has anyone thought about doing some sort of regional submission contest? Maybe a planted aquarium (55 gal) submission with an alloted amount of fish (discus, tetra, cory), and using pre-designated landscaping materials. To be fair I originally just thought about groups submitting one discus but then this whole plant thing popped into my head. The I realized Hans did something similar at a convention recently for young children. So the idea is probably a combination of things I've read. anyway, it might spice up the convention a bit. Just a thought!

[Skip]

YIKES!! i am behind already!!! :(

[MostlyDiscus]

Ya well I guess Ill put in my two cents in for heck of it. How about a breeders program? Anyone willing to pay top dollar for a show quaility imported fish can win. whole diff ball game when you have to breed it. Ed

[Lenin]

What would the rules for the Fry? I have some small one's from Nicholson that are growing really good, also the one's from Yim11, I just need to know the rules, I'm raising the bigger one's in my planted tank, feeding whiteworms and blackworms.

[TURQ64]

Fill me in also..A friend and I are considering bringing some Heckel crosses..Born back in the spring..I'd love to actually see how they fair along side Dale's..Would they qualify?..Is this still a 'happening'?..if not, I'm at a toss-up on what category they would fair best in.....if at all...curious,I am......Gary

[2075turner]

I have two groups of fish that I am raising out...we shall see how they turn out:)

[Larry Bugg]

Fill me in also..A friend and I are considering bringing some Heckel crosses..Born back in the spring..I'd love to actually see how they fair along side Dale's..Would they qualify?..Is this still a 'happening'?..if not, I'm at a toss-up on what category they would fair best in.....if at all...curious,I am......Gary

What I threw out wasn't for a separate category. It was meant as a challenge for those that don't breed or import to bring some of our discus to the show. They would be entered in the normal categories. Most of these categories are pretty cut and dry..........Solid, thick line striation, thin line striation, wild, ect. If you have one that isn't so clear then there is always the Open category.

[TURQ64]

Jeesh!..With these guys, there's one for every category!

[ShinShin]

Ed,

Back in early June I suggested (like I have in past years for the ACA shows in which we, NADA, participated) for a home spawned division and I'd like to have serious discussion on getting it going. I got a couple of "great idea, Mat", the first day or so after it was posted. I haven't heard $hit about it since. It just died from lack of BOD/Officers action. To his credit, BOD Chad Adams was in for it.

I am watching all the buying going on in the sponsors section, so I'm thinking "buy a winner" is the name of the game.

Mat

[yim11]

I was against it, I beat imported fish with a homegrown and plan to do it again in Atlanta.

[Sean Buehrle]

This sounds exciting.

And in the future it is my goal to do something like this, wouldn't be in Atlanta.

I think this is the ultimate in discus keeping, and why this or a thread dedicated to everyone's plans for this is not stickied is beyond me.

I would love to follow a thread about all you guys and gals preparation and plans for this event.

A detailed list of your stock, where you got them, how you chose the fry and why, everything :)

It would give people like me a huge education, and I think it would be the most interesting thread on this site, jmo.

It should be only for people who plan on entering a fish in the show to post in so it doesn't get sidetracked with questions and debates from non contestants.

Thoughts?

[Chicago Discus]

Ed,

Back in early June I suggested (like I have in past years for the ACA shows in which we, NADA, participated) for a home spawned division and I'd like to have serious discussion on getting it going. I got a couple of "great idea, Mat", the first day or so after it was posted. I haven't heard $hit about it since. It just died from lack of BOD/Officers action. To his credit, BOD Chad Adams was in for it.

I am watching all the buying going on in the sponsors section, so I'm thinking "buy a winner" is the name of the game.

Mat

I like this idea.....josie

[LizStreithorst]

I like this idea.....josie

I would love it, but there are problems with the idea. For one, what's to stop someone from entering fish that they said were home bred but in fact were not? I know that it would be the lowest of the low things to do, but there are people who will do anything to win. That said, I'd still like to see it happen.

[JamesP]

I would love to see a home bred and raised group. I know it would be on the honor system but I think with the digital age it could be verified. I really appreciate nice fish regardless of where they came from. But home raised is kind of like home brew it always is appreciated a little bit more.

I would love it, but there are problems with the idea. For one, what's to stop someone from entering fish that they said were home bred but in fact were not? I know that it would be the lowest of the low things to do, but there are people who will do anything to win. That said, I'd still like to see it happen.

[alpine]

I would call it " Bred By Exhibitor "

Roberto.

[magewynd]

I would call it " Bred By Exhibitor "

Roberto.

+ 1, maybe there could be a North American Bred class too (for someone who bought the fish from a N. American breeder so the breeder would get some credit). Similar to dog shows. Maybe entries could be verified by pictures of the parents, juvie/pre-adult pictures.

[LizStreithorst]

Ya'll are getting way ahead of youselves! Ofcourse there would be these classes if there were enough entries, AND if there were someone willing to slog through a ton of pictures and perhaps, while not wanting to question any questioned one, disallowed a potential exibitor. What if the evaluator were wrong and the guy really DID breed the fish? NADA would never live that down.

I want the class. The only way I can see it happening is if it's done on the honor system. If some ******* cheats and wins and gets away with it, which only the lowest of the low would do, oh well....The truth about the guy would come out eventually. This is quite a small tight knit community we have here. The truth always comes out.

I want this class, and I want it at NADA in Atlanta and at every NADA show thereafter. I promise to show home bred fish this year whether there is a class for home breds or not.

Let's see how much interest there REALLY is in this class...Those of you who have home breds that you promise to show at NADA regardless of a seperate class tell me now. The BOD will need to see a solid showing of home breds to even consider making it a class unto itself. That's the way it works. You can't just want something to happen and POOF! it happens. You have to work to make it happen.

I really want this. I will do everything I can. I think that it would make for a few more serious Discus breeders in this country.




+ 1, maybe there could be a North American Bred class too (for someone who bought the fish from a N. American breeder so the breeder would get some credit). Similar to dog shows. Maybe entries could be verified by pictures of the parents, juvie/pre-adult pictures.

[ShinShin]

Well Liz, this ought to have been discussed 6 months ago on our own forum by the BOD's and officers. Being a BOD myself, I am disappointed that we never discussed it and that I have to read about things here on Simply instead of our own forum. I'm just funny that way. We have a forum and don't use it. I probably just made certain people mad with the comment, but I'd have to ask why they are mad.

Mat

[LizStreithorst]

It HAS been discussed on the NADA forum, Mat. You should know. You posted your comments to the thread. http://forum.discusnada.org/showthread.php?t=644

[ShinShin]

That wasn't a discussion. I mentioned it. Chad liked it. I suggested that it needed to be discussed. Chad agreed. That's about it, unless I missed something somewhere. ;)

[LizStreithorst]

Well, you're on the damn BOD. Push for it if you believe in it. Do something other than sit there pissing and moaning about feeling left out.

[ShinShin]

LOL

Just disappointed, that's all. Suggestions have been made, nothing's been done. I was a bad guy because the new blood thought that I was picking on them. I wasn't. Just asking and suggesting. I am not going to get all worked up about it. Why?

Mat

And BTW Liz, talk about some restraint!

[Kingdom Come Discus]

I was part of the discussion. I am all for a bred by exhibitor class, section or whatever it is decided to be called. I liked the idea Mat had and I thought I made that clear. I believe this can be worked out. I know many don't feel as I do though. Maybe we can get the Board of Directors to work on this soon????

[TURQ64]

Well, it sounded interesting from the initial post, but first it was a challenge of fish raised in the last year..Now it's 'bred by', so that pretty much counts me out this time. I was considering bringing fish born in the USA, but not bred by me..And from what I read, the initial post contained fish from Dale,so last time I checked, Manitoba was in Canada..oh well

[LizStreithorst]

And BTW Liz, talk about some restraint!

;)

[JamesP]

I for one will bring a few fish I have raised. Most likely both F1 Tefe and F1 Heckel/Penang crosses both fine and thick striation. Gary I am sure we can figure out a way to enter some of your Crosses as well. I think this would be a great addition to the other categories and who knows maybe someone's home grown may win more than this category.

Merry Christmas Everyone,

Jim

[ShinShin]

Jim,

I understand your point on this thread and respect and admire your stance. I want to point out one thing, though. All discus entered into the main categories would be eligible for this separate category if the person entering the discus spawned and raised it. So, you could enter your spotted discus in the spotted category and the home spawned category as well. This is how I envisioned this to work. We never discussed it on our forum where it needs to be discussed instead of here, on a public forum. It is a BOD and officer's decision, not a public forum affair.

There appears to be some animosity among hobbyists about the importers entering fish. The NADA BOD/officer team know that we need them for a truly professional type show. This, I believe, would give a hobbyist a really good shot at a very deserved prize.

Mat

[JamesP]

Mat,

I agree that any fish locally bred should be eligible. I for one have no animosity. If it weren't for the Importers we would not have many of the varieties we now have available. I understand it is a BOD decision and hope that this becomes a reality. I would really like to see how locallly raised fish fair against the Importers and amongst themselves.

Thanks,

Jim

[ShinShin]

So that all BOD's and officers know, I posted an official proposal for discussion of this category on the Board of Directors section of "our" forum.

Mat

[alpine]

Mat, you are defintelly my favorite NADA Board Member :) . Thanks for your persistence and involvement in all important issues with the Club . I just read your post in the NADA Forum but did not want to post there since is the Board members Thread . I will match your Sponsorship cost for the "Home Bred " " Bred By " prize(whatever it might be) and that will make it a bigger one . You have had Great ideas though the years and have made lots of people think about what's best for NADA , Thanks.

Your Friend,

Roberto Munoz

[LizStreithorst]

Mat and Roberto, I don't care what folks say about y'all. In my book you're both OK (jk). Thanks guys. For the first time I feel that this might actually happen!

[ShinShin]

So, Liz, we are not okay? Is that what you are saying? ;)

Thank you, Roberto. Coming from an upstanding discus man as yourself, I appreciate the post acknowledging what I am really trying to do. You get it.

Mat

[nc0gnet0]

This sounds like a great idea, definately has peaked my interest. And isn't that what it is all about? Is there really a need for a seperate class though? Why not just a mention of the best home bred within each class, and then an overall winner amongst these homers? It would be a great learning tool and put some "North American" into the North American Discus Association.

Rick

[ShinShin]

Rick,

Any home bred fish can be entered into its own class, like spotted or solid, and be entered into the home bred class.

Mat

[LizStreithorst]

So, Liz, we are not okay? Is that what you are saying? ;)

Mat

Yeah, Mat. By now you should realize that I don't think much of you.

Please realize that if it happens their may not be a lot of entries this first time around. 2 years of age is the best age to show a fish. Mine will be 19 months, which is close enough. People need time to get their ducks in a row and prepare. I am hoping that if the class happens people will come. Next time around, baring a financial debacle, I'd like to sponsor the class. We really need to promote it for 2014.

I want so much to see serious breeding on the small scale that we can manage here in the States. So much good stock is available, yet there are so few true breeders.

[Chad Adams]

Guys,
I have been really busy with life, things are calming down. I have given much consideration to this and continue to do so.
If this happens we will also have a ballot box for most loved NADA board member. :)
I will be involved more in the discussion next couple days. Thanks to all for commenting.

Chad

[Chicago Discus]

I'm just happy to be attending you guys can hash out the details...LOL.......Josie

[LizStreithorst]

Guys,
If this happens we will also have a ballot box for most loved NADA board member. :)
Chad

I think that it must be similar to the way it was with Quarles. (slightly before my time). The ones who loved him thought the world of him. The majoirty, who did not, thought of him as a huge PITA. It doesn't bother me to be in the minority. I doubt that it will bother my friend if he is not chosen "Most Beloved". I bet he would wonder what he was doing wrong if people started liking him.

Thanks, Chad. I am looking forward to reading what you have to say.

[ShinShin]

Liz,

I am crushed. All these years I thought that you loved me.

Mat

[LizStreithorst]

Mat, you poor dear. No doubt you thought that because I never say what I really think and was content to lead you on.

Give it time. You'll get over the crushing disappointment of it.

[ShinShin]

That's true. I have never known you to speak your mind on any given situation.

Mat

[LizStreithorst]

Found out again. This time on a public forum. My reputation is ruined. How can that be when I think so highly of myself?

Perhaps a mod or admin could edit this thead to say that I am a most sage and wonderous Discus keeper, that I know all the answers, and that I never have done anything wrong because I thought I knew it all, and that I don't make mistakes.

[ShinShin]

Or you could edit it yourself. I am the only one that would know that it is not true. ;)

Mat :p

[LizStreithorst]

Alas, you are not the olny one who knows...Perhaps it can stay in this small group of THOSE WHO KNOW THE TRUTH.

Mods and admins have all the power. What they say is law. Surely Brew will vouch for the fact that I am perfect. Any mod or admin should. I'm sure that they have never thought of me as anything other than a delightful addition to our happy little community.

[MostlyDiscus]

Ed,

Back in early June I suggested (like I have in past years for the ACA shows in which we, NADA, participated) for a home spawned division and I'd like to have serious discussion on getting it going. I got a couple of "great idea, Mat", the first day or so after it was posted. I haven't heard $hit about it since. It just died from lack of BOD/Officers action. To his credit, BOD Chad Adams was in for it.

I am watching all the buying going on in the sponsors section, so I'm thinking "buy a winner" is the name of the game.

Mat

Mat,

Couple of things here that are worth bringing up. In the early 90s we did have a breeders division. The problem then was that we didnt have that many folks here in the US(at least that went to the show) put discus into the show. Now though it seems that alot more folks have breed and raised decent discus and would be able to compete. Hey Liz ;]
Just my thinking here but my feelings are that most would be honest about having breed and raised their discus. A picture of the parents would be something to consider as well for the show. Seem to be alot of crosses these days. some good and some not so good. I would personally be looking more at how the potential was brought out vs quality of strain. Some folks can spend 1k per fish and lets face it, when you start with a better pair you get better offspring. JMHO

Ed

[texasdiscusman]

Sorry Mat just can't agree on this one buddy.Fish are put in classes and need to stay there.Any breeder can say they are home raised.No matter if in a house or a warehouse in there backyard it's a fine line.And just making judges work harder with the same score card and standards.They will judge the fish no different .So why start different classes?

[ShinShin]

That's it, Randy. Your off my speed dial. LOL

Where's my fish?

Mat

[yim11]

Randy has a strong point.

Does any other show do this? Is there some example or reference to learn from?

[John_Nicholson]

LOL....Mat and I have discussed this before and I have always been against doing this...Why you ask? Because though the years I have seen hobbyist bring their fish to the shows. It has not happened a lot but when it has happened they have done VERY well. Most have at least placed. The problem is that people feel intimidated by the big names...folks there is no reason to feel that way. If you feel that your fish are nice then by all means bring them to the show. They will probably do much better than you think they would.

-john

P.S. Hell if Jim can win something at the show then anyone can........LOL.

[LizStreithorst]

My point is that if we do this it would encourage people to become serious about the quality of the fish they raise. I'm tired of seeing pics of ugly fry and juvies being offered for sale by hobbyist breeders. And people buy them!!!! It's a disservice to the hobby.

I will show mine whether there is a special class or not. It won't be more work for the judges. They go around and score the fish. If the fish is entered, as Mat suggested, in the regular classes as well as in the hobbyist breeder class it only has to be scored once.

As I said earlier, anyone who cheats in this class will be found out. We are a very small community here and we will know if someone shows up with a ringer.
Besides, I don't think that anyone would be so needy of recognition to stoop so low.

I know that it has been tried before, but I think that it is time to try it again and promote it well. What's the harm? It means more entries in the show. Is that not a good thing?

[alpine]

My point is that if we do this it would encourage people to become serious about the quality of the fish they raise. I'm tired of seeing pics of ugly fry and juvies being offered for sale by hobbyist breeders. And people buy them!!!! It's a disservice to the hobby.

I will show mine whether there is a special class or not. It won't be more work for the judges. They go around and score the fish. If the fish is entered, as Mat suggested, in the regular classes as well as in the hobbyist breeder class it only has to be scored once.

As I said earlier, anyone who cheats in this class will be found out. We are a very small community here and we will know if someone shows up with a ringer.
Besides, I don't think that anyone would be so needy of recognition to stoop so low.

I know that it has been tried before, but I think that it is time to try it again and promote it well. What's the harm? It means more entries in the show. Is that not a good thing?



It's all about quality.

Well said Liz. Randy, think about it again, it is really a Good Idea.

Roberto.

[texasdiscusman]

Roberto it is just my opinion.And is it not part of the reasons there are shows.To educate people on what good fish should look like?As far as cheating I would not be to concerned.But then again I think Hans,Mike and Kraig are all guilty of having ringers.Joking of course

[LizStreithorst]

Thank you for making my point, Randy. An importer gets show quality fish from his supplier to enter. He doesn't enter the ones normally offered for resale. If we did this it would give the little guy with small facilities and good taste a shot at some recgnition as well as a chance to compete against the big guns. How can this hurt? It can only help.


Roberto it is just my opinion.And is it not part of the reasons there are shows.To educate people on what good fish should look like?As far as cheating I would not be to concerned.But then again I think Hans,Mike and Kraig are all guilty of having ringers.Joking of course

[seanyuki]

What about bought a 3.5 to 4 ins discus......grew it to 6.5 plus in certain months.....does it consider home grown,bringing it to show.?......or requirement to have it at least 12 months at home .......imo grooming a discus for a show may take 15-18 months from the start.

[ShinShin]

Okay, things are getting stretched beyond the scope that I had in mind.

1. Egg laid in your tank.
2. Fry raised in your tank.
3. Juvie to adult in your tank.
4. Bagged in your tank to bring to show.

In other words, egg to show, meaning, the discus lived it's entire life in the exhibitors tank. Pro breeder and importers are not eligible. Period.

That was my suggestion for the show.

This is a home spawned category for hobbyists only. It is not meant to be a rookie/amateur division because people feel they cannot compete. I have always been opposed to this type thinking. A home spawned category would allow hobbyist/breeders to show their accomplishments. It is not a category of diminished quality.

Mat

[LizStreithorst]

I totally get it. I think that the way you set it out it can do only good.

Where is the discussion about this on the NADA forum? The BODs remain silent. This is an importent thing to be talked over. Why do we have a BODs who have no opinion in a matter that could help the hobby? Why did these people want to be elected if they have nothing to say?

The discussion should not be here on Simply. It should be on the NADA forum where the decisions are made.




Okay, things are getting stretched beyond the scope that I had in mind.

1. Egg laid in your tank.
2. Fry raised in your tank.
3. Juvie to adult in your tank.
4. Bagged in your tank to bring to show.

In other words, egg to show, meaning, the discus lived it's entire life in the exhibitors tank. Pro breeder and importers are not eligible. Period.

That was my suggestion for the show.

This a a home spawned category for hobbyists only. It is not meant to be a rookie/amateur division because people feel they cannot compete. I have always been apposed to this type thinking. A home spawned category would allow hobbyist/breeders to show their accomplishments. It is not a category of diminished quality.

Mat

[chrisb01]

I'm just happy to be attending you guys can hash out the details...LOL.......Josie

Thanks for that 2 cents Josie :-)

Me too, I'm new to Discus anyway. By the time of the convention, I'll have a nice tank set up and hopefully come home with at least a few prime quality Discus (full grown of course).

[ShinShin]

Liz,

I agree, but for whatever reasons, I have to come here to find out NADA business. I asked a question on NADA and was given a link here. Why wasn't the info on NADA. It concerned an activity at the NADA show. LOL

[LizStreithorst]

I know, I know....It ain't the way things should work. I guess there just ain't enough NADA members who give a damn. The discussion is open to all NADA members. I don't know why I give a flying f if nobody else cares. Here we are trying to better the hobby and everyone, including most of the BODs, could care less. It's frustrating, to say the least.

[nc0gnet0]

I think exactly the way Matt laid it out would be perfect. And as Liz states, it would take a few shows for it to grab hold most likely. Verification might be problematic, but that in and of itself does not negate the fact that it is a wonderfull idea. If it in fact (verification) does becoome an issue, then that could be addressed in future shows if the class was deemed to be a success.

Show quality fish are as much a game of numbers as they are genetics, the top 1% of a group of thousands will always have a distinct advantage over the top 1% of a group of a 100.

Rick

[cjr8420]

Okay, things are getting stretched beyond the scope that I had in mind.

1. Egg laid in your tank.
2. Fry raised in your tank.
3. Juvie to adult in your tank.
4. Bagged in your tank to bring to show.

In other words, egg to show, meaning, the discus lived it's entire life in the exhibitors tank. Pro breeder and importers are not eligible. Period.

That was my suggestion for the show.

This is a home spawned category for hobbyists only. It is not meant to be a rookie/amateur division because people feel they cannot compete. I have always been opposed to this type thinking. A home spawned category would allow hobbyist/breeders to show their accomplishments. It is not a category of diminished quality.

Mat
ok u say its not rookie/amateur division or category of diminished quality but that what u make it when u dont allow pro breeders or imports which some of the parents of these homebred fish would be from anyways .would this new class be a north american homebred best in show only or divided in to more classes spots fine line ect.if there is prize money involved there will be cheaters.sry to say greed makes the world go round.i like the thought of of the homebred class just not enough pros to the amount of cons.imo

[Larry Bugg]

ok u say its not rookie/amateur division or category of diminished quality but that what u make it when u dont allow pro breeders or imports which some of the parents of these homebred fish would be from anyways .would this new class be a north american homebred best in show only or divided in to more classes spots fine line ect.if there is prize money involved there will be cheaters.sry to say greed makes the world go round.i like the thought of of the homebred class just not enough pros to the amount of cons.imo

At this point in time there are no cash prizes for the NADA Show. That doesn't mean there won't be at some point and that could certainly affect the cheating aspect. As Mat has outlined this would not actually be a "Class" but rather an award. There would be one winner which would be picked from all the classes combined (spots, fine line, ect.).

[Sean Buehrle]

This is a stupid question but will help me with some questions I have about some stuff that's been said here.

How often do you nada members see a fish here on simply or on another board like nada's website throughout its growing process? With the said fish being entered in the show.

When you see a fish from nada's members at the show or anyone else for that matter, is it usually a surprise? Do you guys/ girls keep them a secret?

Thanks.

[kent1963]

I think having a "home breed and raised" class would encourage people to bring in their fish. A lot of people are intimidated by the big breeder-importers and don't enter fish of high quality thinking they have no chance to compete. I have only entered 1 fish in a show that was many years ago when I was perhaps 16 . I thought he was "pretty good" not great . I still have the trophy "best in class" and honorable mention best in show. Often we are most critical of our own fish, I think their are plenty of regulars on this site that own fish who would do quite well in this show.

[Chad Adams]

I have left my comments on the NADA site.

Liz,
Have I ever told you that you are my favorite non-NADA BOD member? LOL

Chad

[yim11]

My $0.02...


This is a stupid question but will help me with some questions I have about some stuff that's been said here.

Good questions, not stupid IMO.


How often do you nada members see a fish here on simply or on another board like nada's website throughout its growing process? With the said fish being entered in the show.

I can't say that I've ever seen a fish chronicled here (or any other site) from start to finish that was entered in a show. That being said, I do know of fish in shows that came from home spawns, just no one took pics on a regular basis over the grow out.


When you see a fish from nada's members at the show or anyone else for that matter, is it usually a surprise? Do you guys/ girls keep them a secret?

Based on the Dallas show - we had a strong hobbyist showing IMO, and about half were very open about their ownership of the show fish and about half laid low, and might only confirm it was their fish if asked. The best part was you couldn't tell which were the hobbyist fish. Usually people are pretty open about what categories they will enter, but sometimes private about the details of the fish.

----

My concern here is that we might not be addressing the actual problem, and that seems to be hobbyist don't want to show their fish next to "pros". If that's the case, a new or different class might not be the best solution. Maybe more show education could help - like us posting the score sheet so people can see not just where their fish might loose points but also where it will get higher points, so they don't just focus on the defects but the strengths of the fish as well. The University is a great forum area to see how many hobbyist fish have been scored and can be scored if you think you have potential Atalanta winner.

I can tell you from experience that to show your fish in a tank next to a "pro" and be judged at the same level, and do well, is a great feeling.

[ShinShin]

Jim,

I don't care one bit if hobbyists don't want to compete head to head or discus to discus in a class with the best that importers bring. I have always been against a two tier show in that regard. This would be an award not a class, as was pointed out, for a hobbyist who takes the time to breed his own. I don't think it is off base for NADA to encourage hobbyists to breed their fish with a plan and a goal in mind. You see what is happening today - mutt city - and it is actually being encouraged by some, along with rainbow gravel or Barbie Dolls in tanks. lol

As far as posting sheets, not all discus are scored. Some are elimenated from the initial walk through. It would take too long to judge them all like the ACA wanted us to do in Cincinnati. Then some people would complain about no sheet for their fish.

[terps]

This person has a very good aquatic youtube channel. He has videos of the discus at the Duisburg show and how they were judged. Pause the video and look at how each discus was scored in each category.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhLa0uPCEyw&feature=plcp&context=C3a91d7aUDOEgsToPDskLw9UHkKLK2SYX5Q4CxnPlK


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh0yOsBrc-M&feature=plcp&context=C3f60843UDOEgsToPDskKNAZaczfSl0lKjHMSj8VyF

Here's his channel to see more videos of discus at the show and other fish.

http://www.youtube.com/user/n03lzz/videos

[nc0gnet0]

Just out of curiousity, what should a discus score in the university section before it should be considered "show worthy"? I understand this is a bit of a tricky question as the university awards points for presentation.

[LizStreithorst]

That's somewhat of an unfair question. It's like asking to be evaluated by experts before you take the risk of showing. Use your eye and risk it. What's the harm? If you don't win you won't be disgraced. Most all of the fish entered don't win. Think of it as I do; a tiny contribution to the betterment of the hobby and a huge learning experience.

Some judges here are, IMO, overly kind. Others are honest. I don't think that any are brutal.

It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH easier to get the Gestalt of a fish as well as see it's fine points when you see it in person rather than in pictures. These poor guys here are generally presented with terrible pictures. That makes their job next to impossible.

I have never judged fish other than choosing the best I could buy for myself (oops, I forgot. Once I was asked to judge a when the guy they asked to judge didn't appear). It was before the NADA shows. Given the circumstances they had no better choice).

Ya'll don't know. It is very difficult evaluating every aspect of a fish and making it gel with your instinctive feeling. When I judge a fish presented in the Universtiy simply to compare what I think to what the big guns think sometimes they change my mind about the fish and sometimes they don't.

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm with you Liz as in what's the harm. For us show newbie's, do it for the experience. If you win something consider it a plus. If I come I am considering bring a cute little Uatama blue. It's not that big but has a cute little shape on it and presents its self nicely.

[LizStreithorst]

Well, that will make two of us, Pat. I'd like so see some others commit.

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, that will make two of us, Pat. I'd like so see some others commit.

Liz, It's like when my daughter use to show horses. You go for the fun and if you win you have a nice little momento of the show.

[LizStreithorst]

Thank you Chad. That was funny. BTW, I am my own favorite non-board member, as well.


I have left my comments on the NADA site.

Liz,
Have I ever told you that you are my favorite non-NADA BOD member? LOL

Chad

[nc0gnet0]

That's somewhat of an unfair question. It's like asking to be evaluated by experts before you take the risk of showing. Use your eye and risk it. What's the harm? If you don't win you won't be disgraced. Most all of the fish entered don't win. Think of it as I do; a tiny contribution to the betterment of the hobby and a huge learning experience.

I would have to respectfully disagree. There are many that have never been to a discus show (me included) and using the university section was indeed supposed to be a learning tool was it not? Getting a rough idea of what is a show quality discus is would seem to serve to eliminate many discus that should have never been entered, or encouraging some others to enter. It's not just about serving those that have been raising discus for many years, but about growing the hobby and the popularity of the show.

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Just posted this on the NADA thread.

Anyone can import fish here in the US. Just takes a $100.00. I know first hand Asian breeders will sell fish to anyone who has the funds.

Also I only can think of one professional hatchery in the US where there is breeding on a large scale and I am not sure how large of a scale Peter is breeding now. Most of the others import, some just don't tell. There is no way one could survive breeding discus here in the states these days.

Sounds like it is too complex and I understand the reasoning behind it. I was hoping to breed some wilds and enter but why complicate matters. I would just like to see this thing happen and if small time importers (I brought in one shipment last year), like me can't compete well so be it.

[hexed]

I am sorry but I will say it anyways, I never cared for the university section. I had a beautiful discus that even discus hans said was show worthy and the people of the university shot it down. They did not like the angle of the picture I submitted. Oh, wait that is right the university goes by photos. I said it then and I still stand behind my words - looking at a live fish and then taking a still photo of it are two different things. Do not let someone judging a photo stop you from entering the contest, if you do you will never win :(

[Larry Bugg]

Also I only can think of one professional hatchery in the US where there is breeding on a large scale and I am not sure how large of a scale Peter is breeding now. Most of the others import, some just don't tell. There is no way one could survive breeding discus here in the states these days.

Our next raffle is going to be from a professional breeder here in the US (9000 gallons). No it isn't Peter. Intrigued?? The raffle is just around the corner................

[ShinShin]

Sound a little bitter, hexed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon to know that looking at a real fish vs. a photo would be the way to go. That is why good pics are vital. Which fish was yours. I'd be happy to look at it. Remember, sometimes things are a bit rushed. We have jobs and a life to take care of as well as try and do you a favor and tell you about your fish. It is all in fun, remember.

Mat

[ShinShin]

hexed,

I just went through all 28 pages of discus in the U and I only saw one by you and it got good scores from the 3 judges that scored it. Did I miss one? That would be possible. It is late and I am tired. Or, did you delete it? You have me confused now.

Mat