Questions about some red strains

[rosyrobyn]

I've been hunting through April's and Kenny's pre-order threads and have seen many beautiful strains from Forrest but now I'm getting confused.

What's the difference between virgin red, red cover, red rose, and even some of the alenquer crosses that look a lot like virgin reds (is this cross the way the various red strains started?)?

I like the discus with 14 bars. Do the bars show all of the time or only with stress? I also really like the look of halos. Do these develope as the discus gets older or does it show when they are young as well? And what kind of discus is the one in the Simply Discus logo? Gorgeous!

I plan on doing a single strain tank so I'm looking for something special!

[Eddie]

Whew, that would be a long one to even try to explain. I know what your saying about the reds, all very confusing. You could throw San Merahs into that equation too. San Merahs would/should not have any bars. To get a better explanation of the source fish, its best to ask the breeder/importer. They will tell you exactly what you want to know.

As far as the Simply logo, I believe those are wilds, very nice indeed. To be honest, IMO, there is no man made (hybrid) red fish that can compete with a wild type. ;)

I'll find a breakdown on the origins/crosses used to make the reds you are asking about. Give me a few minutes.

Here you go, I find this site is hard to beat when it comes to genetics.

http://www.discusclubsg.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3035
Eddie

[rosyrobyn]

Thanks Eddie. The article helps clear up some questions. Much appreciated.

Are stress bars undesirable? I see that breeders were trying to breed out bars. I kind of like them. I love wild discus but as a beginner I'm afraid to start there. Do alenquer crosses need special care as well or are they more hardy like the modern strains of discus?

[Jennie]

I personally don't think they're undesirable, especially the single wide bar in the center, much like the fish in Eddies avatar...I guess it depends on the strain

[LizStreithorst]

That was a great link, Eddie. I've always wondered about brown based fish. There are conflicting oppions there. Even those experts in Asia don't have all the answers.

In your opinion, should a Red Cover show bars? I say, perhaps an eye bar, but many show all bars.

[Eddie]

I say, perhaps an eye bar, but many show all bars.

I'd say a red cover should just have the prominent eye bar.

[Eddie]

Thanks Eddie. The article helps clear up some questions. Much appreciated.

Are stress bars undesirable? I see that breeders were trying to breed out bars. I kind of like them. I love wild discus but as a beginner I'm afraid to start there. Do alenquer crosses need special care as well or are they more hardy like the modern strains of discus?


The vertical bars on discus are simply mood bars, they come and go with mood, overall health, environmental conditions and stress. Some types do not show bars due to hybridization but as seen in ALL wild discus, they are part of the fishes genetics and they definitely don't bother me one bit.

[LizStreithorst]

I'd say a red cover should just have the prominent eye bar.

May I ask another stupid question? If all these brown types were entered in a in the solid class and were all of the same quality otherwise, the barless fish would win, Right?

[Eddie]

May I ask another stupid question? If all these brown types were entered in a in the solid class and were all of the same quality otherwise, the barless fish would win, Right?

Not really, it would depend on the judging form/judge. In the last competition, each class had a judging form tailored to the specific type, to give higher emphasis on the actual qualities of that class. For example, the Solid Blue class gave more points to color/overall coverage. I haven't seen any forms that gave mark downs for bars, but, depending on the particular judge, he/she may see the bar as a mark down. I wouldn't mark it down at all. If I'm judging a solid red fish, the bar is not in my view, mainly the color/overall coverage.

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks for the information. I'd have thought otherwise. For example, I figured that the reason spotted SSs seem to go Best more often than the regular SSs is because a good spotted is harder to breed. Likewise it takes more work to get good barless reds than ones with bars. I didn't realize that the judging forms broke it down to each individual strain. That's good.

[rosyrobyn]

So much to learn! Thanks Eddie! :)

[Eddie]

Thanks for the information. I'd have thought otherwise. For example, I figured that the reason spotted SSs seem to go Best more often than the regular SSs is because a good spotted is harder to breed. Likewise it takes more work to get good barless reds than ones with bars. I didn't realize that the judging forms broke it down to each individual strain. That's good.

The form may not break it down all the time, just in this last show it did. At first it didn't really make sense but in all actuality, it does make sense to score a solid blue fish differently than a striped/striated blue fish and so forth. Its difficult to score pattern in general for those 2 types as the solid won't really have a pattern, just coverage. I liked the forms they used in Malaysia and I feel it definitely set each class apart.

[LizStreithorst]

If only we had more entries we could do the same here in the States.

[Eddie]

If only we had more entries we could do the same here in the States.

I'm sure we could, there were the same amount of classes at the NADA show, actually more with a wild class. There wasn't a wild class in Malaysia, which I found odd.

[LizStreithorst]

Sorry Eddie, I was stupid. I hadn't had my morning tea yet. It's all about the score card, not about the classes or number of entries.

To me this is a much more fair way to do things. It promotes greater dervisity. I'm sure that the people who breed fish that have spots from head to toe would disagree.