Gill Fluke?

[Elyse]

Sometimes my discus only breaths out of one gill. One gill is not moving and the other gill is moving fast….what are the chances it’s gill fluke? :confused:

My two discus have been doing this off and on since I brought them home about two months ago...

Should I medicate? Or will the chemicals cause more harm? :huh:

[Jennie]

could be flukes.. how are water parameters including nitrates... Lifebearer anti fluke is a great med. If you use it ask for specific directions here first

[moik]

Check water params first !!!!! If need a gill fluke treatment use Lifebearer anti fluke,,2 drops per gallon..After 24 hrs. do a massive water change ,clean tank very well and repeat treatment every other day for a week atleast ..Do not raise temp above 82/84 max..Your Bio will be knock back a little but if you have a good water change regimine or other mature sponge from a nonproblem tank then your good to go,,very easily..Prazi was not worth the time or exspense for a 21 day course..Lifebearer anti fluke will do a better job in the less time/days..IMHO. For fry around dime size use same protocall but only use one drop per gallon for atleast 3 treatments, and repeat 3/4 days later..Not all species of fish handle this med. very well..If there are other fish specie tankmates ,make sure you remove them if you have to before treatments..Treat those other fish in a seperate tank with Prazi for a 21 day course too..I do not keep other fish besides discus for this reason..HTH

[Darrell Ward]

Sometimes my discus only breaths out of one gill. One gill is not moving and the other gill is moving fast….what are the chances it’s gill fluke? :confused:

My two discus have been doing this off and on since I brought them home about two months ago...

Should I medicate? Or will the chemicals cause more harm? :huh:

Chances are good. It's a common problem. Flashing against objects is another sign. Proper medication should do no harm. I've always had good success using Prazi Pro, although it usually takes 2 or 3 treatments of about 5 days each to completely eradicate the critters. Some say it doesn't work on so called "super flukes". I don't really believe there is such a thing. I think people simply give up on the treatment before they have completely destroyed all the critters at all stages of the life cycle. I like the prazi because it seems to be about the safest thing you can use, and doesn't have side effects such as killing your bio filter, your fish, etc.

[scottthomas]

I also have had some experience with gill flukes. As others aalready wisely stated, check water first. I am pretty sure that water paramaters such as abrupt pH changes, ammonia, toxins, lack of oxygen, etc.etc. can cause heavy breathing and stressed fish. Only way to tell 100% if flukes is to use a microscope. They are quite easy to dsee and identify under low power microscope. I also reccommend life bearer anti fluke. However, it is difficult to find and I am concerned thast it is harmful effects to humans contact with skin. For example spill on skin or stick hands in treated water. Maybe I'm over paranoid but I suggest be careful with the chemical.

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/trichlorfon-ext.html

[Jennie]

Ok , I believe that's one drop per gallon 2 days straight no wc's for 3 days???
Check water params first !!!!! If need a gill fluke treatment use Lifebearer anti fluke,,2 drops per gallon..After 24 hrs. do a massive water change and repeat treatment every other day for a week atleast ..Do not raise temp above 82/84 max..Your Bio will be knock back a little but if you have a good water change regimine or other mature sponge from a nonproblem tank then your good to go,,very easily..Prazi was not worth the time or exspense for a 21 day course..Lifebearer anti fluke will do a better job in the less time/days..IMHO. For fry around dime size use same protocall but only use one drop per gallon..Not all species of fish handle this med. very well..If there are other fish specie tankmates ,make sure you remove them if you have to before treatments..Treat those other fish in a seperate tank with Prazi for a 21 day course too..I do not keep other fish besides discus for this reason..HTH

[Jennie]

I've stuck my hand in the water after adding LB, and no adverse neurological side affects happened to me, so...(no comments from the peanut gang please)
I also have had some experience with gill flukes. As others aalready wisely stated, check water first. I am pretty sure that water paramaters such as abrupt pH changes, ammonia, toxins, lack of oxygen, etc.etc. can cause heavy breathing and stressed fish. Only way to tell 100% if flukes is to use a microscope. They are quite easy to dsee and identify under low power microscope. I also reccommend life bearer anti fluke. However, it is difficult to find and I am concerned thast it is harmful effects to humans contact with skin. For example spill on skin or stick hands in treated water. Maybe I'm over paranoid but I suggest be careful with the chemical.

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/trichlorfon-ext.html

[moik]

Do you want to kill flukes or just knock them back??? Most directions on the containers are light/inadequate dosings..Most should follow the bottle directions though..I have been using Lifebearer for years and feel pretty confident in what I suggested...I would honestly rather see people do a PP treatment for 2 cycles first then give them a few days to recover to thier full health and then hit them with a Lifebearer treatment,,but I am NOT /NEVER going to suggest people using PP that have not physically seen a treatment with their owns eyes..There is no standard dosing with PP,,there is to many variables to consider while using PP to have be effective..There is a human contact hazard with this product,,be cautious when using it...Each to thier own how they treat discus...

[Jennie]

actuallynn I am interested in your formula frankly, but I was given the 1 drop meth. by Eddie. also was making sure you numbered the drops per gallon correctly..

[Jennie]

hmmm moik, fish that are left srill breathing fast but not flashing, would you be led to believe still have flukes

[moik]

Eddie/myself were talking in a old post about lifebearer dosing..I use it this way with knowing my discus,water params ,tank cleanliness..I have not seen any adverse reactions from dosing at this rate present/future so far..I have 3 pairs with fry right now that I dosed this way..The only adverse reaction I have seen is the do not eat as much as they normally do..Once treatment is done they pretty much snap back to thier aggressive feeding ways.. I try not to shotgun med my discus ,but keep my eye very close on what is happening in my tanks..My discus are mostly white, so I have look and pay attention alot closer to what is happeneing..For example--Did you ever try seeing white/grey slime (protozoan issue)on a white butterfly before???? almost impossible to see it but have to look for other clues to determine what is going on ..On any other color fish besides white is alot easier to tell..I have dosed meds my way and works for me..I can not control what others do when treating an issue with meds..I only suggest what works well for me..

[Jennie]

I cannot find anything wrong other than breathing fast.. have more than adequate air, 90 percent wc daily, parameters in ck, clean filters weekly, fish eat great and look great. tank in low traffic area. I am stumped

[moik]

did you already dose with Lifebearer?? How long of treament?? Is there an agression issue in your trank?? Is there a substrate that harbors alot of organics?? temp too high 82/84 max? Sometimes they take time to recover and bio come back up par too.check water params too..I feed a min.3 times daily for adults and do large water changes every other day..never really seen a reason to do daily water changes except on growing younger discus up..They get large daily water and fed 4/5 times daily..

[Jennie]

I did dose 2x weeks apart at 1 drop per gallon for 2 days with 3rd day of no water change for 3 days, then 3 days of wc no meds..So 3 days on 3days off repeat 3x over 18 days at temp 82. No aggression at all, but, tank is heavily stock at 18 discus per 125 gallon. Is why I do wc like crazy and clean filter every week. The don't flash, just breath faster than thaey should be. I live with it because they seem happy and healthy otherwise..

[moik]

The fish that are breathing heavy are not ness.consider having fluke issues..Fluke issues by my findings are flasing,darting around tank like they are trying toget something out of thier mouth or gills,rocking their head sideways back forth,jerking thier mouth like they want to spit somethnig out,clamped gill/s..Heavy breathing would be one of the last symptoms I would treat for flukes compared to the other examples given..There are other issues that can cause gill problems than just being fukes..18 fish in a 125 gal is alot,,depending if they are adults or fish smaller than 4" are they adults??..Are they real actively swimming around then breathing heavy?? are they breathinbg fast and sitting still? how is the water right before a watr change clear/alittle foggy/discolored?

[Jennie]

Water is clear, breathe med. fast when sitting still and when active(feeding) they breath much faster.. The one thing I note is this ONNLY happens in the daytime. At night when room is dark and only tank is lit up, the breathing is slow. Maybe I stare at my fish too much and I'm just crazy, but there is a notable difference between night and day

[Jennie]

actually here is a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLbS9HRx_7o
see the faster breathing

[moik]

I would keep water quality up to par and make sure your bio is sufficiently large enough,,and would not do anything more until you see other symptoms arise..They are problably getting excited everytime you go by the tank,,thats when you see the heavy breathing...My fish breath heavy when they get excited or fed very heavily or they are youger fish that dart around alot being too active..I would watch everything and keep doing what you are doing..Keep in mind that you are heavily stocked all the time..

[Darrell Ward]

Fish in the video look fine to me.

[Jennie]

Thanx, so I am paranoid, lol.. I will keep in mind moik your dosage if ever the flukes re appear.

[3dees]

I had this same problem with my wilds. heavy breathing from both gills not one. no other signs that it was flukes. I increased the surface aggitation and no change. put a small power head for even more surface movement and still no change. my fish ate like pigs and acted completely normal other than the breathing. this went on for months and one day they just stopped. my festivum's are still doing it but they have'nt been it the tank as long as the discus. tetras never did it so I'm still not sure it was a oxygen problem. anyway I decided to ride it out and never added any meds.

[jimg]

I have a few juveniles left from a fluke infestation that breath extremely heavy. aflb did not rid them, other meds did. They are 100% fluke free now but still breath heavy. I believe the gills are permanently damaged from either the aflb or scarring.
I have other juveniles that had flukes and I treated them with different meds which did wipe out 100% and they breath fine.

[Jennie]

What meds Jim?

[jimg]

What meds Jim?

flubendazole/dmso

[Dave B]

Jennie, do your water parameters change at all over time? (Does the pH rise after a while out of the tap) - Do a test.

First thing I thought of when I saw "heavy breathing" and "90% water change" was that they're simply reacting with a bit of stress to that. If your changes are in the morning that could also explain why they're calm again at night.

[Jennie]

Actually not any more.. It would actually drop a whole point in 24 hours but have added reefbuilder to maintain ph/raise KH for the day at time of wc's..Man, have I tried it all! My wc's are in the a.m.

at least that is my assumption to it's purpose other than adding back minerals

[mrblah00]

I'm having the exact same issue. One gill closed breathing hard....i haven't treated for flukes yet as i haven't seen any flashing which leads me to believe that it might not be flukes. I need to get a microscope!

[jimg]

I'm having the exact same issue. One gill closed breathing hard....i haven't treated for flukes yet as i haven't seen any flashing which leads me to believe that it might not be flukes. I need to get a microscope!

I had a batch of fry heavily infested with flukes and they never flashed or scratched against anything. A scope is a very good idea, but imo you have to sacrifice some fish/fry to see.

[mrblah00]

I had a batch of fry heavily infested with flukes and they never flashed or scratched against anything. A scope is a very good idea, but imo you have to sacrifice some fish/fry to see.

Perhaps i will treat then, i have the life bearer and have been sitting here looking at it for a few days now.

[jimg]

I am not a big fan of aflb, but some here say it worked for them, many meds work for some and not others too though.
If you did up the wc's and check all parameters and gave them time with that and they still breath heavy, i would treat them too. good luck with them.

[scottthomas]

I had a batch of fry heavily infested with flukes and they never flashed or scratched against anything. A scope is a very good idea, but imo you have to sacrifice some fish/fry to see.

I believe you are right. Need a Scope and sacrifice fish to be certain. I remember a while back Jim when you described that AP-AF did not work for you. Its interesting that certain procedures work for some and not others. Maybe some flukes are just more resistant or more likely, we have to be very precise on the timing and that makes it difficult to tell if it is the medicine or our methods that are ineffective. I think the latter. Jhhnn explained that Prazi rid his discus of flukes but was no help at all in killing mine. You tried Anti-fluke with no success but work for me? However, AP AF only worked for me on second round after I lowered my temp to 79-80 degress and dosed every two days for 3 weeks. I just know that you have to be dertimined and methodical to get rid of the little beasts.

[Jennie]

not me! not that important!

[scottthomas]

not me! not that important!

I understand that sentiment and I would be the same way if not trying to breed. I believe most fish probably have some Gill flukes. However, it becomes important if you want to breed and raise healthy groups of fry.

[jimg]

I believe you are right. Need a Scope and sacrifice fish to be certain. I remember a while back Jim when you described that AP-AF did not work for you. Its interesting that certain procedures work for some and not others. Maybe some flukes are just more resistant or more likely, we have to be very precise on the timing and that makes it difficult to tell if it is the medicine or our methods that are ineffective. I think the latter. Jhhnn explained that Prazi rid his discus of flukes but was no help at all in killing mine. You tried Anti-fluke with no success but work for me? However, AP AF only worked for me on second round after I lowered my temp to 79-80 degress and dosed every two days for 3 weeks. I just know that you have to be dertimined and methodical to get rid of the little beasts.

I think I finally did!
I did the aflb in different sterile tanks 3-4 days apart for I think 4 treatments. It may of worked on most of the tanks I did but because I never saw anymore flukes on any cull except for one tank that after every treatment I would scope and still see a few,imo where there's one there's a chance for 100! could also of been 1 fluke egg deep in the gills of one fish that lived too.
I did a flubendazole with dmso treatment a couple times and have scoped 2 culls and found no flukes. So I am hopeful it was 100% anyway. A month or so ago I culled a couple fry from each tank and found 0. ssshhhhh!

[scottthomas]

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!

[Elyse]

I'm having the exact same issue. One gill closed breathing hard....i haven't treated for flukes yet as i haven't seen any flashing which leads me to believe that it might not be flukes. I need to get a microscope!

Same here...sort of
Both of my discus occasionally had one gill closed and breathing hard, but no other symptoms.

I began this thread, and did a 50% water change. I think that stressed out one of the fish and now it is hiding, won't eat and is shaking its head!!!! It wants to eat because it will go up to my hand when I have frozen blood worms but won’t eat!!!

I soaked frozen blood worms in steeped garlic water, and today I'm going to buy PraziPro
and Boyd: Vita Chem Freshwater to try to boost their immune systems.....

I don't know if their gills will be permanently damaged from these flukes!!!!!! I don't even know I can cure them!! :(

About a year ago, way before I got discus I had cardinal tetras from Big Al's, and they were happy and healthy for months, until I foolishly added a couple loaches from a dirty little pet shop that had ich and passed it to my tetras. I caught it early and medicated the water but the tetras died from the gill damage anyway!!!!!! I don't want this to happen to my beloved discus!!!!!!!!

So if I could go back in time, I would treat my discus at the first sign of clamped gill, because now my discus is really suffering. Also it is very common for discus to have gill fluke, and how the discus takes to it often depends on stress. So while your discus doesn't have any other symptoms, one day, for whatever reason it might get stressed, it will have a turn for the worst. LIKE MINE :cry:

[Jennie]

ck your filters also, make sure they are clean

[chuckbam]

I think Lifebearer is off the market :angry:

[chuckbam]

I think Lifebearer is off the market :angry:

This place may have Life Bearer.

http://www.4fishstuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=61&products_id=6705

[Eddie]

I would HIGHLY advise that if anyone uses LB, DO NOT place your hands in the water. It's extremely important to keep it off your skin. The negative affects are not immediate but may progress over time.

Jen, if you start trying to bite your own ear, then you know why! Lol


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[Jennie]

what ear? huh? :)