Help: Feedback on Filtration Technology

[pepetj]

I would like to know your opinion on this type of filtration. It's marketed as Hydrocarbons Oil Water Filter with this interesting statement:
If you want a reverse osmosis quality water without the tank and without any waste water... this is the one to look at.

http://www.filterwater.com/pc-314-17-undersink-hydrocarbons-oil-water-filter.aspx

I'm moving in two months and want to wisely invest in a water treatment system for my fish room and other tanks in the apartment. I already have a brand new 35GPD RO system (from Seachem) in its box to be installed. I'm worried however about the actual water pressure I might end having. Not unusual in my City to operate below the 60psi most RO units need (which can be corrected with a DC pump). I found this option which if works as advertised would make maintenance quite easy even if it costs more in the long run.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

[Eddie]

I'm definitely not an RO unit expert but that filter looks like most RO units that people use here. Plus it looks about the same price as most RO units.

[flyman767]

This does not appear to be a typical RO system. There is no storage container. Storage containers are required to capture the water that is processed(squeezed) through tight membrane(s). This system appears to pass through 3 course filters; therefore I would have to assume your TDS values won't be anything near a typical RO. Also, at $165.00..much cheaper than a 'quality priced' RO, I would call the manufacture and ask about TDS values and warranties.

And..just as you correctly stated: you can connect an in-line pump to your new RO to increase psi and flow rates.

[Eddie]

This does not appear to be a typical RO system. There is no storage container. Storage containers are required to capture the water that is processed(squeezed) through tight membrane(s). This system appears to pass through 3 course filters; therefore I would have to assume your TDS values won't be anything near a typical RO. Also, at $165.00..much cheaper than a 'quality priced' RO, I would call the manufacture and ask about TDS values and warranties.

And..just as you correctly stated: you can connect an in-line pump to your new RO to increase psi and flow rates.

I never knew that RO units came with a storage container, what do they look like?

[jimg]

The ones for household use have metal storage containers. this is not an ro just a very fine pre filter with 2 carbon filters carbon, there is no ro membrane.

[pepetj]

I just asked them what was the expected TDS reading in the output of this unit. Also asked if the water product is indeed RO equivalent. I'll keep you updated. The no-waste water byproduct is an attractive feature.

Except the RO units sold for aquarium use, most RO systems for homes come with a storage tank. Of course shipping RO unit with a storage tank would be quite expensive due to the volume of it.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

[Eddie]

The ones for household use have metal storage containers. this is not an ro just a very fine pre filter with 2 carbon filters carbon, there is no ro membrane.

Ah, good to know. Do people actually use the storage containers?

[flyman767]

Here is the system I have. You can see the storage container in the background. You have to use the storage container because the water is squeezed out of the membrane at a relatively slow rate; therefore a storage container is required to capture the water so it can be discharged at a fairly steady rate(approx 1 GPM).

[Eddie]

Can't you just plumb to larger container?

[flyman767]

Actually..the RO container is used for drinking. I also have the feed line on my RO tee'd into a 32 gallon storage container that I use to store/age/aerate my water. I use a 50/50 mix..so I just open a valve and the RO water runs into the 32 gal. When it gets to the half-way point, I close the valve tee and fill up the 32 gal container with tap.

[jimg]

Ah, good to know. Do people actually use the storage containers?

Yes when you use it for drinking water it stores I think about 2 gallons,otherwise you would have to wait 15 mins to get a glass of water
I had one for the sink but as you know fish come first so it's now in my fish room piggy backed to my 75 gpd!!

[Eddie]

Cool, thanks for the info.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[DiscusLoverJeff]

And..just as you correctly stated: you can connect an in-line pump to your new RO to increase psi and flow rates.

Flyman, could possibly elaborate on using an in-line pump to increase the RO psi and flow? I currently have a 50 gpd RO unit that I would love to get more out of without having to purchase another unit. I was told I could however buy a 150 gpd or 100 gpd membrane and a larger flow restrictor. Would this be an equivalent pricing if you know?

[roundfishross]

Flyman, could possibly elaborate on using an in-line pump to increase the RO psi and flow? I currently have a 50 gpd RO unit that I would love to get more out of without having to purchase another unit. I was told I could however buy a 150 gpd or 100 gpd membrane and a larger flow restrictor. Would this be an equivalent pricing if you know?

I have an 50 gpd unit and a 110 gpd unit both with pumps. the pump works well but the water lines on the smaller unit use larger size tubing than the higher output unit, I believe the larger are 3/8"s and the smaller are 1/4" size

[Chad Hughes]

This does not appear to be an RO unit. It's simply a water filter that removes sediment and odor/flavor.

Here's what it offers:

Stage 1: water flows through 1 micron filter pads (1/25,000th of an inch), which remove suspended particles such as silt, sediment, cyst (giardia, cryptosporidium), sand, rust and other non-dissolved matter.

Stages 2 and 3: a mix of high purity alloys copper and zync (Eagle Redox Alloy ® 6500 and Eagle Redox Alloy ® 9500). The mix is NSF-cerified, and a major advancement in water treatment technology. It works via electo-chemical and spontaneous-oxidation-reduction (REDOX) principles. Chlorine is instantaneously and almost inexhaustibly oxidized. Tests of Eagle Redox Alloy show 99+% reduction of chlorine past 20,000 gallons of water. In comparison, carbon cartridges of comparable size drop their effectiveness below 90% past 4,000 gallons. Other contaminants are also oxidized, such as iron and hydrogen sulfide. Once contaminants are oxidized into isolluble matter, they attach to the media surface. Heavy metals such as lead, mercury, copper, nickel, chromium, cadmium, aluminum, and other dissolved metals are removed from the water by the electrochemical process. They also get attracted to the surface of the media.

The other advantage of Eagle Redox Alloy is that the media is bacteriostatic, i.e. it prevents bacteria from growing instide the cartridge. This eliminates the need for silver, which is a common additive to carbon filters.

Stage 4: ion exchange resin, which reduces heavy metals such as lead, copper, aluminum, and water hardness.

Stage 5: granulated activated carbon (GAC). GAC is universally recognized and widely used as an effective adsorbent for a wide variety of organic contaminants, such as chlorine (99.9%), chemicals linked to cancer (THM's, benzene) pesticides, herbicides, insecticides, volatile organic compounds (VOC's), PCB's, MTBE's and hundreds of other chemical contaminants that may be present in water, bad taste, and odors from your drinking water. Because chlorine is removed in stages 2 and 3, carbon capacity isn't exhausted by chlorine and has is available to work more effectively on organic contaminants.

Stage 6: another 1 micron pad.

There is no mention of an RO membrane. All RO systems have the above filters in place before the membrane to filter out contaminants that will degrade the RO membrane.

This is great for drinking water and even aquariums but if you are trying to lower TDS and pH, you'll need a system that has an RO membrane. To my knowledge, there is no RO system that produces zero waste. There are systems, of which I own one, that returns the waste product back to the hot water line in your home. This avoids throwing hundreds of gallons down the drain. It simply goes to the hot water tank and is heated for showers, washing dishes, etc. It's the most efficient one I've found.

Hope that helps!


I would like to know your opinion on this type of filtration. It's marketed as Hydrocarbons Oil Water Filter with this interesting statement:
If you want a reverse osmosis quality water without the tank and without any waste water... this is the one to look at.

http://www.filterwater.com/pc-314-17-undersink-hydrocarbons-oil-water-filter.aspx

I'm moving in two months and want to wisely invest in a water treatment system for my fish room and other tanks in the apartment. I already have a brand new 35GPD RO system (from Seachem) in its box to be installed. I'm worried however about the actual water pressure I might end having. Not unusual in my City to operate below the 60psi most RO units need (which can be corrected with a DC pump). I found this option which if works as advertised would make maintenance quite easy even if it costs more in the long run.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Chad,

Where did you find your RO unit? I would like to see how that is plumbed into your water line and hot water tank. Sounds very interesting.

[Chad Hughes]

I use this unit in my kitchen for drinking and cooking water. I bought it at COSTCO. Here's the link! (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10034720)

This unit installs just like any other ro system with the exception of the waste line. The waste line is connected to a 100 PSI boster pump (attached to the filter system mounting bracket) and the waste is forced back to my hot water tank. The kit comes with a self piercing saddle valve. I had to go to home depot and buy a 50 foot length of RO tubing so that the point of waste water insertion was as close to the hot water tank as possible. My line attaches within 12 inches of the hot water tank.

There is an istallation guide link on the website. It gives some basic installation info. One thing that I do not agree with in the install is the location of the waste line insertion. They show it going to the hot water line at the sink. Unless your hot water tank is VERY close to this point, you're going to have problems with a "cool" hot water source. Placing the waste at the hot water tank resolves this issue.

Hope that helps!

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Yes it does Chad, thank you for the information!

[LGelb]

Chad,

25 GPD is enough for you.

Lance


I use this unit in my kitchen for drinking and cooking water. I bought it at COSTCO. Here's the link! (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10034720)

This unit installs just like any other ro system with the exception of the waste line. The waste line is connected to a 100 PSI boster pump (attached to the filter system mounting bracket) and the waste is forced back to my hot water tank. The kit comes with a self piercing saddle valve. I had to go to home depot and buy a 50 foot length of RO tubing so that the point of waste water insertion was as close to the hot water tank as possible. My line attaches within 12 inches of the hot water tank.

There is an istallation guide link on the website. It gives some basic installation info. One thing that I do not agree with in the install is the location of the waste line insertion. They show it going to the hot water line at the sink. Unless your hot water tank is VERY close to this point, you're going to have problems with a "cool" hot water source. Placing the waste at the hot water tank resolves this issue.

Hope that helps!

[flyman767]

Chad,

I see the waste line of 100psi is what enables the water to enter the hot water tank. However, where does the 'displaced' water from the hot water tank go when the RO waste is injected?

[pepetj]

I received response from a sales representative. They acknowledge this unit has no effect on TDS. Their claim of "RO equivalent" is misleading. Thanks for all the input and information. What to do with the waste water is something that bothers my environmental self.

He suggest adding a DI cartridge (10 or 20"L) to lower TDS. Which for me means back to RO plans.

If their DI cartridge replace positively charged ions with hydrogen ions instead of sodium ions I think it would work as "quasi" RO replacement if (and this is a big if) the source water is around 100ppm TDS or less (which I doubt).

This is, as Chad stated, just another home filter product. Probably a very good one on its category. Unfortunately the life of the cartridges would be quite reduced if used as prefilter for RO units. 10,000 gals isn't that much water considering a typical RO unit produces 4 gals of waste water for each gal of RO water.

100 gals of RO water per day (think fishroom) would mean 500 gallons of water passing through this unit daily if used as prefilter... Since this filter is listed as good for 10,000 gals, in 20 days of continuous operation I would need to replace the media... not cost effective at all.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

[Chad Hughes]

Chad,

25 GPD is enough for you.

Lance

For cooking and drinking water, yes. I have a completely different system that produces 300 gallons per day in the fish room. It produces enough waste that I can use it for water changes in grow out tanks. :D



Chad,

I see the waste line of 100psi is what enables the water to enter the hot water tank. However, where does the 'displaced' water from the hot water tank go when the RO waste is injected?

It goes back out to the house supply. My service pressure is only 60 PSI. In the battle of pressure, the RO unit wins and pushes the water right back out to the main. To be honest, my house uses enough water that I doubt I push much water back out to the main. Between laundry and showers, dish washing, etc. water is being used rather frequently.




I received response from a sales representative. They acknowledge this unit has no effect on TDS. Their claim of "RO equivalent" is misleading. Thanks for all the input and information. What to do with the waste water is something that bothers my environmental self.

He suggest adding a DI cartridge (10 or 20"L) to lower TDS. Which for me means back to RO plans.

If their DI cartridge replace positively charged ions with hydrogen ions instead of sodium ions I think it would work as "quasi" RO replacement if (and this is a big if) the source water is around 100ppm TDS or less (which I doubt).

This is, as Chad stated, just another home filter product. Probably a very good one on its category. Unfortunately the life of the cartridges would be quite reduced if used as prefilter for RO units. 10,000 gals isn't that much water considering a typical RO unit produces 4 gals of waste water for each gal of RO water.

100 gals of RO water per day (think fishroom) would mean 500 gallons of water passing through this unit daily if used as prefilter... Since this filter is listed as good for 10,000 gals, in 20 days of continuous operation I would need to replace the media... not cost effective at all.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

Are you using RO for breeding or just because? What I do is use RO product for breeding tanks and capture the waste from the RO for grow out tanks. The waste product is VERY clean as it has passed through two carbon sources and a 1 micron sediment. Something to think about if it would work for you!

Best wishes!

[flyman767]

It goes back out to the house supply. My service pressure is only 60 PSI. In the battle of pressure, the RO unit wins and pushes the water right back out to the main. To be honest, my house uses enough water that I doubt I push much water back out to the main. Between laundry and showers, dish washing, etc. water is being used rather frequently.






I fully understand the concept of high pressure over low pressure. However, are you saying the ro waste water is injected into the hot water and then back pressured into the water supply? Most, if not all water supply meters have a check valve that prevents back-flow. Otherwise..an entire municipality could be at risk for contamination.

Also, whenever you draw water out of your hot water tank(laundry,showers, etc..),that water is replaced immediately by fresh cold water. Therefore, there is no additional capacity within the tank, at any time, to accept an additional supply of incoming water.:confused:

[LGelb]

Chad,

What unit do you use for the hatchery?

lance


For cooking and drinking water, yes. I have a completely different system that produces 300 gallons per day in the fish room. It produces enough waste that I can use it for water changes in grow out tanks. :D




It goes back out to the house supply. My service pressure is only 60 PSI. In the battle of pressure, the RO unit wins and pushes the water right back out to the main. To be honest, my house uses enough water that I doubt I push much water back out to the main. Between laundry and showers, dish washing, etc. water is being used rather frequently.





Are you using RO for breeding or just because? What I do is use RO product for breeding tanks and capture the waste from the RO for grow out tanks. The waste product is VERY clean as it has passed through two carbon sources and a 1 micron sediment. Something to think about if it would work for you!

Best wishes!

[Chad Hughes]

Ray,

Good point and I honestly hadn't given it any consideration. I guess I don't know where it goes then. It's fed back in to the hot water line. All I know is that I don't throw any of the waste product down the drain. It's getting used somewhere.


I fully understand the concept of high pressure over low pressure. However, are you saying the ro waste water is injected into the hot water and then back pressured into the water supply? Most, if not all water supply meters have a check valve that prevents back-flow. Otherwise..an entire municipality could be at risk for contamination.

Also, whenever you draw water out of your hot water tank(laundry,showers, etc..),that water is replaced immediately by fresh cold water. Therefore, there is no additional capacity within the tank, at any time, to accept an additional supply of incoming water.:confused:

Lance,

I use a 4 stage unit with multiple membranes plumbed in parallel. I use an Ebay supplier called H2O Science. There are several forum sponsors that sell units as well for reasonable prices.

Chad


Chad,

What unit do you use for the hatchery?

lance

[discussmith]

Ray, I think waste is able to enter the closed system because the feed to the RO is taking pressure at house main level as it is working. This allows the 100psi waste to push into the water heater pushing heated water into the cold supply side where the normal feed supplies the heater. The problem I have is that hardness is the bane of all water heaters and adding concentrated TDS water into a water heater is a sure way fill it with scale and shorten its life. I don't know if this is happening but it sure seems like it would have to. This is particularly problematic for electric fired units. Gas fired units will just take longer to recover and evenually not supply enough heated water as the volume is reduced by scale. Again this is all relative to how much waste and at what hardness it is, but it will also lime up the faucets that supply hot water in the house.

[flyman767]

I guess it's conceivable that in a closed system when water is being drawn into the RO that a small amount can be force back into the lines..assuming there are no check valves in place.

I'm not sure how much of this water actually would make it to the water heater causing a scaling issue? Probably a small amount..if any.

Also, I wonder what the TDS value of the discharged water would produce?

[discussmith]

Ray; using a 3 to 1 product to waste one has to assume that for every gallon of water that enters the RO unit 1/4 will go into storage and 3/4 will go to waste to either be rerun through the membrane or dumped into a drain system depending how its plumbed. You cannot compress water so it has to work that way. 3 to 1 is just to visualize easier and is better than most actual results closer to 4 to 1. At 4 to 1 the waste will be 4 times higher in TDS than original. The amount of scale will be the result of how much hardness is being removed and how much RO water is being made for use.