Fry pictures (20 days)

[nc0gnet0]

Albino Red Melon x Mercury cross. Mom had to be removed, dad has been doing a great job (although very over protective).


http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/th_20days3.jpg (http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/?action=view&current=20days3.jpg)

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/th_20days2.jpg (http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/?action=view&current=20days2.jpg)

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/th_20days1.jpg (http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/?action=view&current=20days1.jpg)

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/th_20days4.jpg (http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/?action=view&current=20days4.jpg)

[Saxthom]

That is amazing. The dad is beautiful and the babies look very happy. Good job and good luck.

[Altum Nut]

Great job Rick.
Fry look wonderful. Being a Dad myself...I can never be over protected of my offspring.
That is one nice hatch-rate. Have you culled any yet?
Keep us updated.

...Ralph

[mikel]

OHHHH very very nice set of babies with a handsome dad! Congratulations. You should be very proud of your work! mike

[DiscusOnly]

Nice!

Frys look great! Very consistent in size.

[LizStreithorst]

A few small ones, but most all look right about the way they should for their age. Cograts on a very nice spawn.

[scottthomas]

Big healthy group of fry. They look great for 20 days. Right on track IMO. Congrats on the hard work. You are doing a superb job with them.

[hedut]

wow,looking forward to see how they grow :)

[moon_knight1971]

Always amazed when I see this!

[mmorris]

They look great! Well done!

[Eddie]

Great work! All the best with them!


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[nc0gnet0]

Thanks all, they should be fun to work with in future breeding expieriments (F2's).


A few small ones, but most all look right about the way they should for their age. Cograts on a very nice spawn.

Yup, actually I am surprised thier isn't more. Mom, The Mercury, had to be removed on day 4. She flipped out during a water change/bottom vac and started eating some fry. The water change was a bit more aggressive then the ones prior, as I had just fed BBS for the first time and had more debris to clean up, and, well, she didn't handle it well. Up to this point almost all the fry were feeding/attached to her. Soon after about 3/4 of the fry immediatley attached to dad, but several took a few days do figure it out. I am guessing this is due to him being an albino.

[LizStreithorst]

Forgive me. I suppose I should know, but what is a Mercury?

[Eddie]

Pigeon based

[John Smith]

Nice family,good job ,:)

[nc0gnet0]

Pigeon based

Pigeon based but displays it's pepper in light blue.

[LizStreithorst]

That's a decent cross. What plans to you have for the babies?

[jball1125]

Very nice! The dad is quite the looker.

[nc0gnet0]

That's a decent cross. What plans to you have for the babies?

Babies will be carriers of the albino gene, plan to breed the best of them back to either each other or another albino. As for the rest, it depends on how they look and if they are desirable.

[Eddie]

So far I can see bars on some of them.

[LizStreithorst]

Babies will be carriers of the albino gene, plan to breed the best of them back to either each other or another albino. As for the rest, it depends on how they look and if they are desirable.

Well, look at you...You are a breeder! Please update this thread regularly with pics of the good ones and the not so good ones. There are some that I see already that need to go to the Happy Hunting Ground. I'm especially interested i what the non albinos look like.

[nc0gnet0]

I'm especially interested i what the non albinos look like.

They will all be non albino's.


So far I can see bars on some of them.

What does this mean? Is it a pre-cursor of how they would develope?

Here is a picture of mom. Unfortunetly the time-out tank she is in is an older tank with that green glass that doesn't photogragh well.

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/th_merk.jpg (http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/?action=view&current=merk.jpg)

[Eddie]

What does this mean? Is it a pre-cursor of how they would develope?



Not really sure but none should have bars, should be an interesting outcome.

[nc0gnet0]

Eddie,

FWIW, I have seen these bars before with my OGW X ARSG cross. What appears to be bars in the photo's when looked at up close is actually an absence of color in that area (where the bars should be). None of the juveniles nearing 4 months,of that pairing have bars, however, they did exhibit the same type of pattern at this stage. I wonder if this is just typical of pigeon blood offspring?

[roclement]

Excellent! Those look great and the pictures are perfect! You have come a long way my friend!

Rodrigo

[nc0gnet0]

Excellent! Those look great and the pictures are perfect! You have come a long way my friend!

Thanks Ringo ;)

[Rod]

Great looking spawn there. Make sure you keep us all updated on this very interesting cross. :)

[Eddie]

Eddie,

FWIW, I have seen these bars before with my OGW X ARSG cross. What appears to be bars in the photo's when looked at up close is actually an absence of color in that area (where the bars should be). None of the juveniles nearing 4 months,of that pairing have bars, however, they did exhibit the same type of pattern at this stage. I wonder if this is just typical of pigeon blood offspring?


Could be, I forgot you had some left from that spawn. I guess we'll find out!

[nc0gnet0]

Could be, I forgot you had some left from that spawn. I guess we'll find out!

Here is two of them (the OYW x ARSG cross) at three months:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/juveniles/juv2.jpg?t=1297752660

And here they are at 4 months:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/juveniles/juve4g.jpg?t=1297752660

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/juveniles/juv4.jpg?t=1297752660

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/juveniles/juve4c.jpg?t=1297752660

The larger of the snow whites is the one in the first picture. I included the small snow white as she has a rather unique red coloration on each of her nostrils. The pigeon blood type is starting to develope his pattern. He exhibited these same bars at three weeks as the fry in the previous photo's.

[Eddie]

Nice! I really like that pigeon. And the snow white is very interesting, with the orange spots. Great work!

Eddie

[vera]

had similar bar like feature in my fry (solid turq x snow white) , but it never developed in to bars , just red spots


before

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/vera80/update082.jpg

after

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/vera80/whitered022.jpg

[nc0gnet0]

Vera,

Thats a perfect example of what I was trying to describe. Do you have any pictures of the solid turq? Is that a current picture of the cross?

Rick

[Chad Adams]

Most all of my albinos, even the pure ones have these bars.
Chad

[MostlyDiscus]

I dont know if breeding back for albinos is worth the trouble. Maybe I am reading this wrong but the number of pure albino offspring from back crosses is at best a few surving fish. The spots on the other hand are very intresting. I have many red/white offspring with spots or splotches. Golden line? Well done ncOgnetO. The size at four months is impressive. what are you feeling them?

[nc0gnet0]

You should get 50% albino's when crossed back with a pure albino, and 25% when crossed with a sibling. As for survival rate I can't say. I am not doing these crosses with hopes of getting large amounts of marketable juveniles, but rather more intrigued by playing around with them to the F3's and beyond. As for thie growth, I actually thought that they were a bit behind at the three month stage, but over the last month they have all had a major growth spurt.

As for what I am feeding them, it is quite a variety. One of their staples is FDBW, then I also feed some BH that I got from Al and added some pro-growth, shrimp, and some super beaf heart flake. I also feed NLS grow formula and angels plus hi pro growth flake. Then at night after their water change I feed them (gasp) well rinsed live blackworms. The live blackworms they completly gorge themselves on, and since I have been feeding them thier appetites has increased for all foods. It's funny, what used to be a slightly stressfull time for them (water change), they now associate with the live blackworms and they go nuts as soon as the water change begins.

[MostlyDiscus]

Agreed on the albino offsring. I think that if you have enough albinos in the brood then you would want to consider moving them to thier own tank. Maybe its whatever albino line I had but the albinos from the cross seem to be undersized and would struggle to get to the sizes of their non albino brother and sisters. I will try to get a close picture up of a brood that was crossed back from babies I raised. Live blackworms are a great food as long as you rinse them and limit the risks asscociated with them. I too drain 80 percent of the water at night(central system) with a large hose then feed FDBWs right after. They do come a runnin when the hose dips in the water. Kind of funny to watch discus charge head long into a giant snake looking hose. Just aint natural I tell you. Good stuff going on there. Thx for sharing too... Ed

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Just an amazing sight to see nc0gnet0. I wish you good luck with these.

I only hope someday I can have the same results with my pairs.

[MostlyDiscus]

had similar bar like feature in my fry (solid turq x snow white) , but it never developed in to bars , just red spots


before

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/vera80/update082.jpg

after

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/vera80/whitered022.jpg

Vera, Not wanting to steal mags thread but did you raise this fish? bottom discus?

[vera]

Vera,

Thats a perfect example of what I was trying to describe. Do you have any pictures of the solid turq? Is that a current picture of the cross?

Rick

Hi Rick, will post pict of solid turq as soon as have access to lap top, this baby in the pic was 1 year ago , I sold him and guy showed me the pict how he developed , i will ask him to forward me the pic , part of the body that had rednes on it now covered with proper red spots - the colors are very interesting

[vera]

Vera, Not wanting to steal mags thread but did you raise this fish? bottom discus?

Hi , yes it was a baby from my pair, Will try to get his latest pics soon

[vera]

hi Rick here is dad. http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/vera80/redmaze099.jpg

[nc0gnet0]

Just a quick update at 34 days (give or take)

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/2.jpg?t=1298860638
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/1.jpg?t=1298860638
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/3.jpg?t=1298860638

I have decided to hold off on culling until next week when I transfer them over to a larger tank.

[nc0gnet0]

Another shot of the PB based (or golden, not sure) from the previous cross.

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/juveniles/pb11.jpg?t=1298860904

[nc0gnet0]

Last but not least, after working with this pair for several months with tons of eggs and great hatch rates only to see the fry die shortly after free swimming:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Alenquer%20x%20Turq/2.jpg?t=1298861166

I moved them into that crappy ol' green glass aquarium ( while I disenfected thier 29 gallon breeder) only to have them lay eggs within two days on the glass. And wouldn't you know it, my free swimmers attached ;)

These pictures don't do the pair justice, its an Alenquer cross (solid) and a red turq/scribblet.

[Eddie]

Nice looking fry!

[William Palumbo]

I agree...nice fry, and looks to be a nice pair as well...Bill

[Chad Adams]

+1, you're doing a fantastic job! Good Luck.
Chad

[MostlyDiscus]

Good stuff

[shorjai]

Good job.. Planning to sell those babies???

[nc0gnet0]

Just a quick update, the good the bad and the ugly on the ARM X mercury cross. Yes I do have some fry with pepper, but I have just as many, if not more, that are clean ;) Still haven't culled any as I am curious to see how the colors develope on the peppered ones to see if there is any I want to save. Also, need to hone my ability at raising a large batch of babies (still 120+ strong, haven't lost a one...knock wood).

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/fry3-1.jpg?t=1301855104

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/fry2.jpg?t=1301855104

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/fry.jpg?t=1301855104

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/fry4.jpg?t=1301855104

[nc0gnet0]

Here are the juveniles from the Ogon Yellow White X Albino Red Spotted Green Cross, now nearing 6 months and not quite 5":

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Oyw-ASRG%20fry/juve2.jpg?t=1301855370

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Oyw-ASRG%20fry/juve3.jpg?t=1301855370

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Oyw-ASRG%20fry/juve4.jpg?t=1301855370

These do show some pepper, but only when stressed. It's comes and go's, just like stress bars on other fish. Here is one that is getting fed up with the camera flash:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Oyw-ASRG%20fry/juve.jpg?t=1301855370

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Oyw-ASRG%20fry/juve6.jpg?t=1301855370

The same fish 5 minutes later was free of all pepper ;)

Also, the fry from my Alenquer cross x Red Turq are growing like weeds as well. I do have some deformities in this batch, but luckily a few nice fry as well. This is from the pair that I refused to give up on, have countless successfull spawns, only to lose them soon after they went free swimming. Last night a new pair laid a very nice clutch of eggs, that being the same Albino Red Spotted Green and a virgin red. Also, amazinly enough, today for the first time I had a spawn in the community tank make it to wiggler stage.

[vera]

Arnt u lucky Rick !! yr fishes just love to spawn lol
well done !!

[nc0gnet0]

Arnt u lucky Rick !! yr fishes just love to spawn lol
well done !!

Thanks Vera! Yes my fish do love to spawn, to the point of it almost becoming a problem. Seems whenever I purchase juvies to grow out, they start spawning well before they are done growing. I actually posted a picture of a group spawn awhile ago, with 6 different fish all spawning on the same hunk of driftwood at the same spot.

[vera]

Magical water ! or diet ? what do u feed them Rick
i miss breeding and sight of pairs with fry , my wilds seem dont care for my feelings lol

[nc0gnet0]

FDBW is the closest thing to thier staple, along with BH, an occasional feeding of live blackworms, sera pellets, NLS grow formula, colorbits, ON prime reef flake, angles plus vitamin flake, live red cherry shrimp,.......I could go on and on. Lets just say they get quite a varied diet

[jaykne]

Hey Rick, they are all looking really good, you know how to raise them out!!!

[hedut]

Wow, those fry have very nice shape

[Eddie]

Good looking juvies. Looks like all are pigeons. Would be interesting to see F2.

[trit0n2003]

i want to do this one day! ahh! i just got my first group of 6 young discus

[nc0gnet0]

Just a quick update and some new additions:

First the Albino Red Melon X Mercury Fry:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/ARM%20X%20Merc/ARMxMerc2.jpg?t=1304206048

Next a few shots of the Alenquer cross x Red turq fry:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Alenquer%20x%20Turq/AQxRt.jpg?t=1304206353

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Alenquer%20x%20Turq/aqxRt2.jpg?t=1304206396

This is a new cross I haven't posted yet ARSG x Virgin Red:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Virgin%20Red/ArsgxVR2.jpg?t=1304206509

If you look carefully you will see a few (9) white fry. No, these are not albino's from this cross, they are fosters from an Albino San Marah x Snow white batch that were not attaching to thier parents, so I placed them in with these two when the wigglers were just about to go free swimming, and the VR let them attach.

[Eddie]

interesting color on them. Will be cool to see them develop out. You planning to keep some?


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[nc0gnet0]

But wait, theres more ;)

Here are a small batch of fry from a Virgin Red x Albino Red Melon cross. There is a funny story behind these fry:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Virgin%20Red/APD.jpg?t=1304206928


The father of these fry is the same father that raised the ARM x Mercury Fry. As soon as I placed him back into the community tank, he took up with a Virgin red and spawned. At that particular time, I had a pair of Albino Pearl Diamonds from Kenny in another breeding tank that I had been trying to force pair, with no luck. Just for the heck of it, I decided to place the eggs from the ARM x VR that were laid in the community tank and place them in with the APD's. Bear in mind that this was a batch of eggs I really didn't care much about, and I wanted to see two things. First, how easily a batch of non-albino fry would attach to albino fosters. And secondly, if seeing the eggs would somehow trigger the APD's into spawning on there own. The pair co-operated nicely, and although it was a small hatch (mainly because the were laid in high TDS water and left sit there for a time), the fry did attach after two days. Both parents took turns with the fry for a few days until I removed the *female APD. Still not sure what to do with these guys and there are some with fin defects (not all), but, there are a few that look interesting and I am going to grow them a bit before I decide to keep them or not.

But back to my *female APD. After being placed back into the community tank, she paired up with the Red Turq, and low and behold, she was in fact a he! No wonder I couldn't get the two APD's to drop any eggs. Funnier yet, I had two males co-operating to foster someone else's eggs ;) At any rate, I wanted to see if the APD (now male) was fertile or shooting blanks, so I once again removed the eggs from the community tank, and placed the APD and Red Turq in their own breeding tank in with the eggs, and today I have this:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Virgin%20Red/APDxRT2.jpg?t=1304208170

[DiscusKev]

Good job, they have great body shape and colour! Nearing 6months and hitting the 5" mark is great in my books.

[nc0gnet0]

interesting color on them. Will be cool to see them develop out. You planning to keep some?

Plan on keeping 6-9, I have a few people local that want some ( I got plenty, still 120 strong), but I am having trouble deciding at this stage which ones I want to keep.

[nc0gnet0]

Good job, they have great body shape and colour! Nearing 6months and hitting the 5" mark is great in my books.

That would be these two, from my very first batch (I hae 5 total), now over 5" but not quite 5.5:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Oyw-ASRG%20fry/1stbatch.jpg?t=1304208472

[hedut]

That would be these two, from my very first batch (I hae 5 total), now over 5" but not quite 5.5:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/Oyw-ASRG%20fry/1stbatch.jpg?t=1304208472

this will be interesting keep us up date, I wonder what kinda fry will be :)

[Melissa]

... As soon as I placed him back into the community tank, he took up with a Virgin red and spawned.....

So.... Is she no longer considered a virgin red then? :D;) is she just a "Red" now?
Hahahahaha hardy har har :p

[Kenny's Discus]

Rick,

Very nicely done my friend...lots of experimental crosses...and some turned out to have very unique and surprising pattern...I like the ARM x Mercury frys quite a bit...the albino gene definitely clean out some of the Mercury peppering in these F1's.

You don't have to tell me I think my next job would be to look for another APD solid female from Forrest for you lol...;)

Keep up the great work!

Kenny

[nc0gnet0]

Thanks Kenny.....

It does look like I will get some nice juvies from the mercury cross, hard to say at this point what the end result will be. However, it's actually the small batch of Vigin Red X ARM fry that currently have me the most intrigued. Bear in mind this is not a cross I planned, rather it just happened in my community tank. I expected the fry to be heavily peppered, and while it is still early yet, so far they look remarkadly clean. They also have a very unique irradescent red/orange sheen to them, unfortunatly the camera can't quite capture it yet as they still are in that stage where their body is semi-transparent.

I would be really curious to see what fry from a mercury x mercury pairing look like, and how their blue "pepper" developes.

[Sameen]

Rick how do u have the inside of some tanks painted? like the bottom and side?

[nc0gnet0]

I don't, typically I use styrofoam on the backs and the sides. but the tanks pictured are exceptions. One tank has marble tile laid on the bottom, the other has white gravel adhered to the back, on the inside of the tank. (originally it was a black acryllic back). On both of those applications I used a two part liquid epoxy as a sealer.

[Sameen]

Thanks Rick. I have too many dark stuf in 2 of my breeding tank. Any suggestion?

[joelgama]

is FDBW (freezed dry blood warms?) if so how do you feed these since they float and never sink? they go to the top for the food?


FDBW is the closest thing to thier staple, along with BH, an occasional feeding of live blackworms, sera pellets, NLS grow formula, colorbits, ON prime reef flake, angles plus vitamin flake, live red cherry shrimp,.......I could go on and on. Lets just say they get quite a varied diet

[Eddie]

is FDBW (freezed dry blood warms?) if so how do you feed these since they float and never sink? they go to the top for the food?

Yes, they will go to the top for food or if you have an outflow from your filter, the worms will circulate down with the flow. You can also press a square of the FDBWs to the glass but eventually it'll come off and float to the top.