Keep or Remove Runt

[bigfish77]

I have 15 discus in my 180 gallon tank. I bought them 1-2.5 inch a montha ago and all are growing rapidly execpt for 1 who is no larger then when he arrived, actually he eats etc but is super tiny now the others have started to grow. Should I keep the runt in the tank or remove? Will removing the runt only cause another fish to become the runt in the tank? Also, my tank is a 5 feet long X 2 feet wide and 2.5 feet tall. Is 14 discus too many or just depends on conditions etc.
Any suggestions please..
Thanks

[Skip]

it depends.. there is a difference between a RUNT and the Low man in pecking order.. sometimes they are the same.. but also fish grow at different rates.. i separated some fish that were slow growers.. and but all the little ones together.. now they are growing really fast! :) what would you do with the RUNT?

[daveo]

Bigfih77,

By all means keep the runt if you like it, if not it's a cull.
I had a runt in the past nice body shape and color so I kept it.

Daveo

[Eddie]

Personal preference, some keep them for sentimental value. I do not.

[Discusgeo2]

One way I reduce the small size is when I geed my Beef Heart/Sea Food mix is I use a cheese grater to cut the food into small bite size pieces. Then when I drop a hand full of food in the tank is spreads out in the tank so everyone gets a chance to eat. I don't throw one piece of food in the tank ever because the biggest and strongest eat first then the smaller ones later if there is food still available. That is my way on reducing small size discus.

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

Keep em he will "GROW" on you eventually :) you have a fairly large tank so he wont be taking up any space. IF u had a smaller tank i would be alot more pickier on who i keep

[DiscusFreakaZoid]

People keep smaller community fish with discus so i really dont see the difference

[Keith Perkins]

Personal preference, some keep them for sentimental value. I do not.

I would keep him, but not for sentimental reasons. With a tank that size, I'd say you could handle a few more fish if you do good WCs. So I'd keep the runt to use as a sacrificial lamb when you decide to buy more and when you have QT'd the other lot for a month you can then add the runt in with them and see if it stays healthy.

So keep the runt with purpose.

[Jennie]

I hes got good shape keep, if he's butt ugly..give away..cost money to feed inferior fish!

[Keith Perkins]

If he's butt ugly you could still consider cosmetic surgery. Nah, as much as it kills me to say this, Jenny's right. I assumed it was a decent fish except for it's size when I said keep it. But ugly, or is that butt ugly, gets the fillet knife.

[Eddie]

I would keep him, but not for sentimental reasons. With a tank that size, I'd say you could handle a few more fish if you do good WCs. So I'd keep the runt to use as a sacrificial lamb when you decide to buy more and when you have QT'd the other lot for a month you can then add the runt in with them and see if it stays healthy.

So keep the runt with purpose.

You are definitely right in that aspect, always good to have HERO fish to take one for the team when it's time to QT new fishes.

[bigfish77]

Don't have enough post really want to post some pics I just took, 8 more posts to go LOL.

[snowflake311]

For me I keep discus because they are pretty And I like the personalitys. I don't breed or sell these are my pets. I don't kill my dogs if they don't grow as big as I thought they would. In fact my dog was the runt and is now larger then his brother. No he is not just fat haha.

Some discus people are all about the perfect fish. If the fish is unhealthy yes put it down (I hate the word cull). I am a fish person not a true discus person I guess. I have been keeping fish for 14 years. I only kill a fish if it is sick and will not recover. I will take your reject fish. I have pretty much only reject discus.

Do discus keepers forget these are living animals? If you don't like the fish Just give it away or bring it to the pet store. Don't just kill it because he did not grow to your standards it's not his fault.

Sorry I'm done ranting. I sound like a hippy that's just how I feel.

[Eddie]

Some discus people are all about the perfect fish. If the fish is unhealthy yes put it down (I hate the word cull). I am a fish person not a true discus person I guess. I have been keeping fish for 14 years. I only kill a fish if it is sick and will not recover. I will take your reject fish. I have pretty much only reject discus.

Do discus keepers forget these are living animals? If you don't like the fish Just give it away or bring it to the pet store. Don't just kill it because he did not grow to your standards it's not his fault.

Sorry I'm done ranting. I sound like a hippy that's just how I feel.

It's normal and understandable. ;)

[cooksa]

As you can see by the many different responses, it's completely up to you. It could just be one of the slow growers, or he's not going to make it to full potential. If you're looking to have the most beautiful fish you can, you may choose to end his life now, and not waste the time/money on him.

I personally would give him a chance. He may surprise you. It's not like your fish are fighting for space in the tank.

[mikel]

Just as an aside, if you think you are doing the fish a favor by bringing it to the pet store instead of humanely ending its life, for whatever reason....this is not necessarily the case. Given that most (not all) pet stores are about making money, have no clue about discus, and/or do not care or have the manpower to keep their discus collection healthy, you are essentially condemning the little guy to a slow and miserable death. Also, who is going to guarantee that the little guy, even if by a miracle of heaven lives through the ordeal of the pet store....will he survive the home of someone who bought him because "he's so pretty", and keep the lone fish at 74 F with a few goldfish and a betta? The world is large, and ignorance abounds.

I would prefer to send the little guy to an early, clean and quick/humane end if the alternative is most likely what I just described. The final solution is...if you dont want to cull, dont try to breed. If you buy, pay attn and choose carefully so you wont run into having to make this decision. But if you've got a runt, just keep it if you can. In a huge tank, you can definitely just leave it be and let it grow old with you. mike

[TURQ64]

I guess I misread or mis-interpreted this thread. I thought a guy bought (not bred) a bunch of fish, and one was smaller. Never heard about breeding, or anything else. If it needed culling, that was the breeder's call. I don't think anyone here buys fish, and kills one off a month later 'cuz it was smaller than the others at the time...Just raise your fish for a while. A few months isn't squat in the long term picture of fishkeeping. It could grow up just fine...or not.. This is hard grasp without photo's or a reason...No breed standard exsists if you aren't 'showing fish'....

[Eddie]

I guess I misread or mis-interpreted this thread. I thought a guy bought (not bred) a bunch of fish, and one was smaller. Never heard about breeding, or anything else. If it needed culling, that was the breeder's call. I don't think anyone here buys fish, and kills one off a month later 'cuz it was smaller than the others at the time...Just raise your fish for a while. A few months isn't squat in the long term picture of fishkeeping. It could grow up just fine...or not.. This is hard grasp without photo's or a reason...No breed standard exsists if you aren't 'showing fish'....

I would have to disagree, it's not just about showing fish. A breed standard also exists if you want to have a reputation for producing quality fish.


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[Jennie]

In his post it doesn't state he bred..he bought this way. I also dont see where he says he intends to breed..so back to his Q in his particular case he has one fish that is runted.. and what to do with that one.. IMO I would either give it awhile and let him be the underdog in this case or be rid of him however the keeper chooses.. there are also plenty of fish in the tank to spread aggression around so that should not be an issue with another one becoming heavily hit, I don't believe

[TURQ64]

My point exactly..others went down the 'cull' and 'breeding' road....and Eddie, I never read anything about him wanting to raise fish and gain a rep...just my observation, I'll bail out now..regards...

[LizStreithorst]

Personally, I would feed it to the roses, but my goals are not the same as yours. They are your fish and you should do as you see fit.

[PAR23]

Just my observation and I may be way off here but it appears the more seasoned members favor culling whereas the younger members favor keeping it around (I favor the latter). I guess one explanation for this may be one learns to appreciate and only want to keep high quality fish as one progresses in this hobby, setting the bar much higher for themselves. Only speculating here.

[LizStreithorst]

Just my observation and I may be way off here but it appears the more seasoned members favor culling whereas the younger members favor keeping it around (I favor the latter). I guess one explanation for this may be one learns to appreciate and only want to keep high quality fish as one progresses in this hobby, setting the bar much higher for themselves. Only speculating here.

I think that you are right on the mark. There is no "right way". Those of us who breed or are into Discus seriously are harder on them that someone who just wants to enjoy keeping the fish.

[Harriett]

Ditto, that's my thought and how I do it also.
Best regards,
Harriett

[2wheelsx2]

I think that you are right on the mark. There is no "right way". Those of us who breed or are into Discus seriously are harder on them that someone who just wants to enjoy keeping the fish.

I think that's a big part of it. The other part is space/effort. If you are experienced, have a fish room or 5 or 6 tanks totally 60 discus, you're more apt to cull than a person like me who just started and has 5 discus in one tank. When I started breeding cherry shrimp, I thought they were red gold. Now I don't care if some dry up or jump out of the tank and I routinely feed some to my fish. When I finally cleaned out my 20 gallon for a discus quarantine, I netted out over 150 in the tank and probably another 40 or 50 in the canister filter. It would be senseless to try to save every little one in a water change or filter cleaning.

[bigfish77]

Thanks for all the replies to my post. I didn't think it would generate such a large response. Like I stated, I bought, not breed these fish. The runt is a LSS, I bought three of these 1 of which died in the first two days after addition, the 2nd is developing nicely and the third is the runt. When I say runt I mean it! I would say the growth difference is probably a quarter to a half dollar size difference in a month's time. I do small WC everyday to remove waste/food and larger WC's three times a week. I am leaning towards culling but also thinking of keeping and letting it play its role wuss of the tank. I added all my discus at one time roughly 5 strains. Within each strain group there is a runt, but the difference here is a more drastic runt then just one of four being a bit a the smaller side. I would love to post pics, but like I said not enough posts.

[PAR23]

Thanks for all the replies to my post. I didn't think it would generate such a large response. Like I stated, I bought, not breed these fish. The runt is a LSS, I bought three of these 1 of which died in the first two days after addition, the 2nd is developing nicely and the third is the runt. When I say runt I mean it! I would say the growth difference is probably a quarter to a half dollar size difference in a month's time. I do small WC everyday to remove waste/food and larger WC's three times a week. I am leaning towards culling but also thinking of keeping and letting it play its role wuss of the tank. I added all my discus at one time roughly 5 strains. Within each strain group there is a runt, but the difference here is a more drastic runt then just one of four being a bit a the smaller side. I would love to post pics, but like I said not enough posts.

Easy. Just keep responding to your own thread until you reach the necessary number of posts to post pics.

[peterhql]

There's also a difference between a runt and a stunted fish. I'd keep runts because there is some growth potential there. However, stunted fish will likely never grow anymore. I purchased one stunted fish at 3 inches and in 2 weeks he was already trying to breed with a 6 inch adult fish.

[Bill63SG]

Just my observation and I may be way off here but it appears the more seasoned members favor culling whereas the younger members favor keeping it around (I favor the latter). I guess one explanation for this may be one learns to appreciate and only want to keep high quality fish as one progresses in this hobby, setting the bar much higher for themselves. Only speculating here.

I agree.Being still new at this,I think we're still experiencing the rush of our first fish and the money spent.I'm at a point where my time,efforts,and food are better spent on higher quality fish.Unfortunately,my wife and son named our obvious runt,so now I'm stuck with him.His name is "Bilo" for you Borat fans.

[PAR23]

I agree.Being still new at this,I think we're still experiencing the rush of our first fish and the money spent.I'm at a point where my time,efforts,and food are better spent on higher quality fish.Unfortunately,my wife and son named our obvious runt,so now I'm stuck with him.His name is "Bilo" for you Borat fans.

That's so true Bill. I have in one of my tank, the ugliest and most stunned fish one can ever find. Their eye occupies 75% of the entire fish but like you, my son is so attached to them that eliminating them is not an option. Despite their looks, they eat out of my son's hand and that is priceless.

[Bill63SG]

Their eye occupies 75% of the entire fish but.
Looks like I have a fry-mate.It's like a different species in the tank.

[PAR23]

Looks like I have a fry-mate.It's like a different species in the tank.

LOL.....I like to think of it as a new strain, the "Alien Strain". Too bad it's not in high demand or I be rich.:D

[Len]

For me I keep discus because they are pretty And I like the personalitys. I don't breed or sell these are my pets. I don't kill my dogs if they don't grow as big as I thought they would. In fact my dog was the runt and is now larger then his brother. No he is not just fat haha.



Completely off topic I know, but that makes me think of my Rottie Samson. When my female had 13 puppies about 13 years ago, he was the runt. He was so small he couldn't feed from his mother because the others pushed him away. The vet gave me formula to feed him from a bottle that looked like a kids doll bottle. He told me it was only 50/50 that he would even survive. Well I kinda fell in love with him after taking him everywhere with me day and night and feeding him on schedule. Well .... he turned out to be a beautiful 136 pound rottie that was larger than a lot of his siblings and lived to be a little over 11 years old. Go figure, the runts do sometimes reach full potential.



so, if you like your runt fish, then keep him :)

[bigfish77]

Mine is probably not stunted, but definitely a runt. Its an ugly one at that.

[bigfish77]

Keep posting ...

[snowflake311]

Yes I said bring it to the pet store. The pet store in like the Pound some get lucky others don't. I think it will have a chance there not the best one but still it could get lucky. You could always say free to good home on CL. Even then you find stupid people.

So are you keeping the fish? Can we see a photo of him?

[bigfish77]

Probably will keep him for a bit, but remove in the future if he does not grow

[bigfish77]

This is my 10th post so pics will be following shortly....

[bigfish77]

Hope this works.
LSS Runt
http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/BigFish777/Runt.jpg
Frymate and Runt
http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/BigFish777/LSS.jpg
Size comparison of Tank mate which was smaller at time of addition
http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/BigFish777/PGBRunt.jpg

[snowflake311]

Did you buy that fish at the same time you bought the other in the photo? He looks like a runt. His color makes him look really young. Stunted fish will show full color at a small size. His shape is a little off looking. It would be fun to see how he turns out.

[daveo]

Looks like a cull, the sooner the better.

Daveo

[-3de-]

If you decide you do not want, free on CL or drop off at LFS.. JMHO....

[Jennie]

Uh, I wouldn't drop it at the LFS for them to sell to some poor unsuspecting sap, and that's just what they'd do too! Just put on CL for free. I've done thia and it works well within 24 hours, fish is gone

[-3de-]

Uh, I wouldn't drop it at the LFS for them to sell to some poor unsuspecting sap, and that's just what they'd do too!

Very good point!

[bigfish77]

All were bought the at the same time.
3 LSS (1 dead)
4 Blue Diamond
3 High Red Turqs
1 Blue Turq
3 Pigeon Blood
2 Blue Cobalt

The pigeon blood are growing the fastest followed by the cobalts.

[John Smith]

Tonight I do angel fish fille with more like 100 angels...I don t like the colour,the veils ,the size ..and I trough away ..by the way remain cowpoke thousand ..and more coming ...

Whatever with your discus is another storie ..
My advice ... keep it !:)