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View Full Version : Buying Fish, My Process.



roclement
02-25-2011, 02:30 PM
Hi everyone,

Please do not associate this thread with any others, this is intended for people to share experience on how to make a decision to purchase Discus, wilds or domestic, from sponsors or not.

I am assuming that we are picking up were all the appropriate reading on what a good quality, healthy discus looks like so take it from there...

Fell free to add at will but I will ask MODS to remove any de-railing or direct references to anyone! Please keep it to how you do things, not what you read on a book, or how it "should be done", just be direct and post your oppinions.

My process for shipped:

Domestic Fish:

Before I purchase from anyone, I do my research. I follow the seller for a long time before making a decision to buy. Once I have made my mind comfortable with the source I start talking to them about what I expect, price, etc. In my case I give the seller specific requirements like Grade A or regular, specific size, gender, etc. I also undertand that I may pay premium for some of these requests, so be it. I may or may not ask for pictures depending on time I have known the supplier.

I also set specific expectations for shipping as in when to receive, how they are being delivered, number of bags, etc.
Don't forget to understand completely what the re-fund/dead on arrival/no-show policy is! Get it in writing, e-mail will do!

Wild Fish:

Pretty much the same with the only difference being that I do need to see pictures or a video of the fish. Wilds are all one of a kind so there can be quiet a difference between them, even if from the same species. I also make sure that they have been quarentined and aclimated to eating processed foods before I get them, I will pass on cheap fish that haven't been through a comprehensive "cleaning" and aclimating process.

Pay attention to incorrect or unsure sources, or non-correct names that don't match the variety!


F1's or any wild fish spawn:

Here things get tricky...while they are considered domestics they are yet to have fixed traits in them, let me explain...
Just because you get two nice wild fish, it does not mean that their spawn will be nice looking fish! It will take many generations of inbreeding to fix certain desirable qualities like pattern, shape, and color.
Buying f1's is a shot in the dark, especially when buying very young, you have no way of knowing how they are going to turn out as they grow, there are way to many variables to list and not the purpose of this post.

When buying F1's or any other wild spawn, make sure to talk to the seller and get a realistic expectation of what you are getting. Maybe limit yourself to only purchasing fish at a larger size so most traits have been fixed and you can have a general idea of how they will turn out.


Buying from a Store/Wholesaler:

All the above apply plus, make sure to check cleanliness of the place, check the filtration system, is it integrated to the rest of the tanks? Is it individual to every tank?
If in a integrated system, check the tanks in the same chain, are there sick fish in there? Do they look healthy, eyes clean, etc?
Ask seller for dates, when did they arrive, how long have they been quarentined? Specially for wild fish! Did you treat them in any way?
Eating habits, how often, what are they eating? Feed them for me please?

Lastly ask general questions about discus like water temperature, hardness, are they difficult? Do anything you can to acertain the level of knowledge of this person so you can decide to trust them or not.

If anything makes you feel unconfortable at all...walk away!


Rodrigo's General Rule for Buying Discus:

NEVER BUY FISH SMALLER THAN 3 INCHES UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE AS A DISCUS KEEPER, HAVE REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT/HOW THEY WILL TURN OUT, AND HAVE EXPERIENCE/TRUST WITH THE SELLER, ALWAYS QUARENTINE!

Thanks for reading, feel free to add since I am sure I missed a lot of important things!

Rodrigo

Eddie
02-25-2011, 04:30 PM
Good write up Rod!

I like to see close up shots of the fish/tanks too. ;)

alpine
02-25-2011, 04:34 PM
and always tell them you have a digital camera and belong to SimplyDiscus ...

Roberto.

Eddie
02-25-2011, 04:35 PM
and always tell them you have a digital camera and belong to SimplyDiscus ...

Roberto.

LMAO

Keith Perkins
02-25-2011, 04:41 PM
Rod - why is it you suggest newbies not buy fish smaller than 3 inches, feeding requirements and the associated water quality challenges? Just curious of the specifics behind that recommendation.

vera
02-25-2011, 05:04 PM
good write up Rod !


and always tell them you have a digital camera and belong to SimplyDiscus ...

Roberto.

lol

John_Nicholson
02-25-2011, 05:08 PM
I just call up some of my old friends and ask what they got....

-john

p.s. Rod I disagree on the 3 inch size. I have sold thousands of discus at 1 inch with very good results.

roclement
02-25-2011, 05:20 PM
Rod - why is it you suggest newbies not buy fish smaller than 3 inches, feeding requirements and the associated water quality challenges? Just curious of the specifics behind that recommendation.

You got it!

Very easy to stunt a small fish! Mostly see newbs buying small fish because they are less expensive, so they buy 5 small discus, throw them in a 55gal. and then complain/ blame someone that the fish did not grow or does not look like the pictures of the parents. That is one reason I don't like to ship fish, let people pick what they want and explain what needs to happen as far as care, if they can't handle it, it's not on me.

John, I hear you, that's a good thing for the thread to develop with different points of views, so far, so good! :)

Rodrigo

moik
02-25-2011, 05:20 PM
Very good write up..I also agree that 3" is a min. size for newbies, people with less passion for the hobby and etc....I can easily say 4" might be a better size for the same given situation..As far as quality of discus grown from a 3 inch size,,there is a massive commitment/passion needed to raise up a discus to a premium size for an adult ..Hey,but what do I know about what a quality discus should look like..Should make this artical a Sticky by itself....

roclement
02-25-2011, 05:25 PM
Very good write up..I also agree that 3" is a min. size for newbies, people with less passion for the hobby and etc....I can easily say 4" might be a better size for the same given situation..As far as quality of discus grown from a 3 inch size,,there is a massive commitment/passion needed to raise up a discus to a premium size for an adult ..Hey,but what do I know about what a quality discus should look like..Should make this artical a Sticky by itself....

:) I was gonna say 4 inches but given the price difference between a 3 inch fish and a 4 inch fish, I held myself back. A couple of people here have heard this from me directly, buy a couple of larger fish that you know are nice, instead of taking a chance with 5 smaller ones hoping they turn out nice, and Bob and I usually sell smaller fish so I am being as honest as I can with no personal gain here.

Rodrigo

roclement
02-25-2011, 05:27 PM
Plase, no direct reference to anyone, trusted or not.

Thanks!

Rodrigo

Keith Perkins
02-25-2011, 05:41 PM
You got it!

Very easy to stunt a small fish! Mostly see newbs buying small fish because they are less expensive, so they buy 5 small discus, throw them in a 55gal. and then complain/ blame someone that the fish did not grow or does not look like the pictures of the parents. That is one reason I don't like to ship fish, let people pick what they want and explain what needs to happen as far as care, if they can't handle it, it's not on me.

John, I hear you, that's a good thing for the thread to develop with different points of views, so far, so good! :)

Rodrigo

Thanks for the follow up, I understand your point of view on the topic. It certainly is easier to take care of bigger fish.

I've been fortunate so far in that I haven't run out of space before my little ones have reached at least 2 inches, so I've never sold anything smaller than that. It just seems there are a lot of hurdles to cross before that size and I'd rather take those risks myself rather than pass them on to a buyer and risk damaging my limited breeding reputation.

moon_knight1971
02-25-2011, 07:10 PM
Great advice! I'm in agreement with the 3 or 4 inch rule. You really know much better what you are getting at that size. Personally, I can see myself buying 10 - 12 half dollar sized babies just to see how they come out but in doing so I am expecting 2 - 3 to die, a few to possibly be stunted, 5 or 6 to be average and 3 - 4 to stand out. I will mostly be doing this just to watch the growing process firsthand.

LizStreithorst
02-25-2011, 08:01 PM
I got screwed when I was new, and I got substandard fish when I was more advanced and buying for resale, which I no longer care to do. It wasn't my own fault when I was new and stupid, I guess. Who knew that I'd be different from all the people who come and go? I was an easy mark for bad fish. It WAS my fault when I became more knowledgable. When you buy fish for resale they should arrive parasite free, you shouldn't have to treat them yourself.

I suppose I have learned from my mistakes. I buy very few fish these days. I prefer to breed my own. I was lucky to find a suppleir who told me the faults of the fish BEFORE I purchased them. One who does his best to get me exactly what I want, and if he can't, tells me in what areas the fish falls short. I like seeing pictures of an entire shipment so I can judge the overall quality of the fish. After that, it comes down to a matter of trust.

The best way to buy top quality fish is to arrive at a Discus show early when the fish are being tanked, look long and hard, and pick the best one of the strain you are looking for.

discuspaul
02-25-2011, 08:15 PM
Quality, well-written post, Rod. Agree with moik, it appears to be Sticky material.

mmorris
02-26-2011, 08:51 AM
I have quite a list of people I would not buy from, for one reason or another. I like buying domestic-bred fish, if I can find what I like. But to buy domestic, you have to buy small. It takes a lot of resources to get a two-inch fish up to three and more and domestic breeders, generally, don't want to keep the ones they want to sell. ALWAYS ask for pics of the fish, or at least the tank, that you will be purchasing from. Pay attention to the pics! I don't care if it's Santa - if he can't supply pics, go elsewhere.

Lukan
02-26-2011, 09:36 AM
I would like to add:

-Buying from a reputable SD sponsors who stand by what they sell.

Marte

ockyra215
02-26-2011, 10:52 AM
I would also like to ad this little tid-bit if you buy say 10, 2 or 3 inch fish you will have some that turn out great and youll have some that may be a slow grower or even a runt.There not all going to be perfect. And even if you buy from a reputable sponsor once its in your tanks the balls up in the air with small fish.No matter who you buy it from.If your going to buy young fish make sure you educate yourself on what it takes to grow them out to become their full potential!JMO:)

Skip
02-27-2011, 01:23 AM
I just call up some of my old friends and ask what they got....

-john

p.s. Rod I disagree on the 3 inch size. I have sold thousands of discus at 1 inch with very good results.

hey john.. any fire reds?! ;)

yogi
02-27-2011, 03:20 PM
This is about handpicking your discus whether it's wild or domestic, it works best on fish over 2 1/2 or 3 inches that are already showing good colors. If every fish is the same strain I look for color first and then I work backwards looking for defects, and remember to look at both sides of the fish because they are not always the same. I look at the gills, the chin and the nose. I'm real picky with the nose or nostril area I don't like beaks on kinks right above the mouth. I make sure the pectoral fins and tail are smooth and shaped correctly, also make sure there are two pelvic fins, and the gills cover what they are suppose to. I look at the dorsal and anal fin to make sure they flow correctly and don't start to far back on the fish. Now look at the overall roundness of the fish including the far head and the stomach. I also prefer red eyes and straight stress bars. Try to look at the fish straight on and make sure it is not crooket. Look at the color pattern of the fish your considering compared to the other color patterns in the tank. Because of all this I don't always end up with the nicest colored discus from the tank, but I end up with the fish I feel have the best potential. I recently told a friend of mine who breeds discus when it comes to me picking out a fish I'm a picky a__hole.

Also you want to look at the overall cleanliness of the facility or room. And also check that the tanks look clean and don't have sick fish mixed in with them. Water spots on the outside of the tank are not a sign of being dirty, but dirt and crap in the tank is.

When picking smaller fish I ask to look at the parents and look at them similar to what I said above. The babies have a good chance of still being on the pointy side and this size. But check the gills and fins to make sure everything is there and correct. I do agree with ockyra215 above about how your mix of small fish will turn out.

roclement
02-27-2011, 07:07 PM
This is going great! Thanks everyone for the great additions to the thread so far!

Rodrigo

vernon_24
03-01-2011, 04:40 AM
are juvi's round like say 3 in fish round
coz m a lil confused .!
n d place i buy discus is abt a 5 hr drive frm my place

Jennie
03-01-2011, 07:01 AM
like this write up Rodrigo.

John_Nicholson
03-01-2011, 09:57 AM
hey john.. any fire reds?! ;)

PM sent. Don't want to clutter up this thread.

-john