Help does ammonia from wegmans contain surfactants?

[lizziotti]

Hi everyone I'm very worried I did something wrong. I started a fishless cycle about a month ago. I still show no signs of nitrites. I've been trying to be patient but now I'm getting concerned. I bought wegmans clear ammonia even though it foamed when I shook the bottle. The ingredients only listed Ammonium Hydroxide. So i thought I was safe even though I knew foam was a no no but figured they had to list it in the ingredients if it contained surfactants. But now I am worried that it probably does. What do I have to do to remove them? Thanks so much! so mad at myself!!!

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[kaceyo]

If it said "clear" ammonia on the bottle you're OK. Whenever I do a fishless cycle it takes almost exactly 6 weeks every time.

[lizziotti]

How many weeks does it take usually for nitrites to show?

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[Second Hand Pat]

Lizz, are you measuring any ammonia now?

[kaceyo]

How many weeks does it take usually for nitrites to show?
It varies too much to try and pin down a specific time it will start to show. At 4 weeks into the process it could be fairly soon, so test frequently.

[jarret8x]

My bottle said clear ammonia then found out it had surfactants in it

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[lizziotti]

This is what I'm worried about. What should I do now? I'm worried it's going to be harmful to the fish if I don't get it all out.

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[TURQ64]

Big water change ahead....

[lizziotti]

Lizz, are you measuring any ammonia now?

Yes it is this is the weird part I can't seem to get it to measure more than 2ppm. I started off with 16ml (i found the amount with an online calculator for fishless cycles)

It went up to 2ppm so the next day I added 8 ml more it stayed at 2ppm. I was hoping to get it to 4 ppm but I was nervous I was adding too much so just left it as is.
I wasn't that concerned now that I'm not having any progress I'm thinking did I add too much? not enough? is my test kit bad?or maybe its my ammonia?

Hate to say it but I miss fish cycles!



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[Second Hand Pat]

Lizz, Have you consistancely measured ammonia over the last four weeks? If yes, has it remained at the same measured level? Have you measured any nitrites at all? and last, have you measured any nitrates?

[lizziotti]

Yes I've tested every day hasn't budged. No nitrites I haven't bothered testing for nitrates.should I? Thanks for the help.

Do you think I should be cleaning everything out?

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[Second Hand Pat]

First, test for nitrates. Sometimes you can miss the measurable nitrites because they have already been converted to nitrates. What is bugging me with your situation is the consistance presence of measurable ammonia (assuming you are measuring daily or every other day and have not been adding additional ammonia).

From my research surfactants can act as a detergent.

Surfactants are compounds that lower the surface tension of a liquid, the interfacial tension between two liquids, or that between a liquid and a solid. Surfactants may act as detergents, wetting agents, emulsifiers, foaming agents, and dispersants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfactant

And detergents can inhibit the formation of a bacteria bed which I believe your measurements support so yes, I would clean everything and start over.

[lizziotti]

And detergents can inhibit the formation of a bacteria bed which I believe your measurements support so yes, I would clean everything and start over.

I think your right makes sense I'm so mad that they can add them without listing them. also so mad at myself. The bottle was foaming for a reason duh!

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[Second Hand Pat]

I think your right makes sense I'm so mad that they can add them without listing them. also so mad at myself. The bottle was foaming for a reason duh!

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At least you now have a plan forward so that is a good thing.

[jarret8x]

Ya I just dumped bleach in mine last night starting fresh not gonna chance it

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[Second Hand Pat]

Ya I just dumped bleach in mine last night starting fresh not gonna chance it

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Rinse very well.

[jarret8x]

Gonna wipe it all down then do 3 100% water changes

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[lizziotti]

Gonna wipe it all down then do 3 100% water changes

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Did you use ammonia with surfactants also?


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[jarret8x]

Ya I didn't realize it for like a week and a half

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[Second Hand Pat]

Lizz, I sure am glad you created this thread. Buying "Clear Ammonia" is such an easy mistake to make while doing a fishless cycle.

[jarret8x]

I'm just gonna use shrimp from now on. No more clear ammonia for me.

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[lizziotti]

Lizz, I sure am glad you created this thread. Buying "Clear Ammonia" is such an easy mistake to make while doing a fishless cycle.
Lol well I'm glad I can help others before they make a mistake but wish it didn't happen to me!!! You wouldn't believe all the trouble I've been having setting this thing up its been one thing after another it's almost like a sign or something lol! Oh well I'm determined so bring it on!

Yep I'm going to get shrimp too!
Although I am tempted to try safe start by tetra but I'm nervous I've heard of peoples tanks crashing after using products like these

http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=3582


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[Second Hand Pat]

Is this a product to jump start the bacteria bed? Have heard good and bad stories about those products. Sometimes it's best to put in the time.

[kaceyo]

Liz, how did you find out that your ammonia had surficants in it if it's not on the label? I wouldn't add bleach to the setup, there is no need to sterilize anything. Just rinse everything out very well, including sponge, and restart with whatever you decide on using. There's no point in killing off any bacteria that may have started cycling.
I have read successful accounts of cycling filters using ammonia with surficants.

[discussmith]

Lizz; I would suggest you give safe start a try. It is expensive but if it works for you, you can save alot of time. You can still manually add ammonia and test to see if the safe start is working if you're not able to add some dither fish or are not confident it will work. I just set up an african cichlid tank using this stuff. I bought two bottles just in case and then I plopped in 5 fish immediately and saw no ammonia or nitrites at all ever just nitrates. Its been a month and I still have the other unused bottle. I know some have not had a similar experience so keep testing to verify what's happening.

[lizziotti]

I have read successful accounts of cycling filters using ammonia with surficants.

Actually I just read the same thing.
I'm not sure of anything but since it foams when I'm shaking it I think it does.
I'm just concerned because everything I read says I should have had nitrites by now. I am thinking it may be my test kit now because I added straight ammonia to my test water and it still read 2ppm either that or I am color blind.
So now I think I may have just added too much ammonia.




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[kaceyo]

You said you started the cycle about a month ago. As I mentioned earlier, It's common for fishless cycles to take up to 6 weeks, and the nitrite part of the cycle is all at the tail end. I don't know what's going on with the 2ppm max level, but I think you just nead to be a little more patient before calling it quits.
If you think the ammo level is too high, do a 100% wc and redose the ammonia with the amount you originaly started with.

[nc0gnet0]

Bleach will do absolutely nothing to remove surfactants. Water change and a good wipe down. I always use the industrial ammonia you can get at any ace hardware store (ace brand). No surfactants.

Rick

[ericatdallas]

Bleach will do absolutely nothing to remove surfactants. Water change and a good wipe down. I always use the industrial ammonia you can get at any ace hardware store (ace brand). No surfactants.

Rick

+1

Why bleach? At least if you drain/refill times 3(or more) you stand a chance of keeping some of the beneficial bacterial. You're probably good with one drain and refill because by then you'll significantly dilute it out.

[lizziotti]

Bleach? No I'm not using bleach. I'm going to wait it out alittle longer I guess. Maybe do a water change. I was up last night thinking and I started wondering if carbon can remove surfactants maybe the people who have had success using ammonia with surfactants were using carbon in there filters. should I put some in?
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks so much everyone with helping me figure this out.
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[Second Hand Pat]

Lizz, I do hope this cycle completes with the presence of nitrates. I know you are ready to move forward and start stocking your tank. Starting over would really bite.

[lizziotti]

Oh thanks pat I know I agree thanks but no rush now so Im going to use this as a learning experience. Hopefully by the time its done john will have more tefe but isn't the season almost over?

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[Second Hand Pat]

I think the season is over about the end of March (Not sure about this). I just sent an email to John asking about the possibility of receiving any more tefes. I know John does receive discus thoughtout the year. Last September I starting drooling over his aquabid auctions and some of the auctions are greens, not sure about tefes however.

[TURQ64]

Oh thanks pat I know I agree thanks but no rush now so Im going to use this as a learning experience. Hopefully by the time its done john will have more tefe but isn't the season almost over?

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O.K., you've mentioned this before, and I've posted this before..If he's out, then why all the Tefe' listings on Aquabid?...fraud??..I doubt it, but...oh well, lead the horse to water, but ya can't make 'em drink....

[Second Hand Pat]

Gary, only saw the extra large ones on aquabid. Some of the folks here wanted the smaller sized ones I believe.

[TURQ64]

A Tefe' is a Tefe'..seems as tho' the click here bought adults in all other 'wild' categories..just tryin' to fill the void...I'm up to my ears in Tefe's myself...

[lizziotti]

O.K., you've mentioned this before, and I've posted this before..If he's out, then why all the Tefe' listings on Aquabid?...fraud??..I doubt it, but...oh well, lead the horse to water, but ya can't make 'em drink....

This is exactly why I don't usually post. Some people get so pissy around here more so than other forums.
This wasn't really my ? anyway. I was wondering if carbon would remove surfactants.



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[TURQ64]

Pissy? here?..Let's see, all the deleted posts two weeks ago, I'd say this can be a 'pretty pissy' forum compared to others..But who's pissy?..not me, matey!

[kaceyo]

Carbon should remove them but I can't say for sure. It certainly wouldn't hurt anything so give it a try.

[Darrell Ward]

It may sound gross, or even crazy, but I know an old time fish keeper, (he's a retired biology professor) who swears the absolute fastest way to cycle a tank without seeding it with bacteria is to pee in it. When the cycle is complete, do a 100% water change, and you good to go. :D

[lizziotti]

It may sound gross, or even crazy, but I know an old time fish keeper, (he's a retired biology professor) who swears the absolute fastest way to cycle a tank without seeding it with bacteria is to pee in it. When the cycle is complete, do a 100% water change, and you good to go. :D

Actually I have heard of that before but yeah not going to do that lol!



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[DonMD]

Bleach will do absolutely nothing to remove surfactants. Water change and a good wipe down. I always use the industrial ammonia you can get at any ace hardware store (ace brand). No surfactants.

Rick

Was researching Simply to see WHERE IN H**L I could find JUST ammonia, and came across this post. Ace. Who'd of thought? Thanks, perfect.