Ok, I got screwed and bought bad fish

[Astolfo]

When I bought my fish did not know anything about discus, and i was not able to see the pictures from what not to buy :mad: becasue I was not a member. What is up with that!?
Anyways now I am stuck and I want to make the best out of it. I can't post pictures yet...

What can I do? i have been feeding them bloodworms, and they are barely eating them, and there is one that chase everyone despite not eating himself…

TIA

[Eddie]

When I bought my fish did not know anything about discus, and i was not able to see the pictures from what not to buy :mad: becasue I was not a member. What is up with that!?
Anyways now I am stuck and I want to make the best out of it. I can't post pictures yet...

What can I do? i have been feeding them bloodworms, and they are barely eating them, and there is one that chase everyone despite not eating himself…

TIA

If they look like ones from the first page, I'd use them for fertilizer. I'm being serious, the fish on the first page of "what not to buy "are all ill.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?46982-What-not-to-buy

You mentioned in that thread that they look like that.

[PAR23]

Where did you get them from (breeder/LFS etc) and how long have you had them?

[Astolfo]

i bought them from an internet company live aquaria, and they gave me the money back. but still i do not want to kill them.

[Eddie]

i bought them from an internet company live aquaria, and they gave me the money back. but still i do not want to kill them.

Man, if you got your money back, its best to start fresh. You'll want to remove any possibilty of infecting your future purchase.

[Astolfo]

how do i kill a fish with the least pain?

[Astolfo]

i know it is probably dumb, but never had to!

[Eddie]

how do i kill a fish with the least pain?

The way I see it man, pain isn't a matter. The great Jim Quarles did it best. You take the fish in the palm of your hand and you slam the fish onto the pavement as hard as you can. The fish dies instantly, and doesn't feel any pain. ;)

[Astolfo]

dang....that is pretty cruel...but thanks for the advice.

Any comments on San Diego Discus? are their fish good?
regards,
Astolfo

[ericatdallas]

how do i kill a fish with the least pain?

Method:
1) Freezer (stick in a sandwich bag with water and stick in freezer).
2) Use Anesthetics to OD
3) Take a knife and chop the head off

I use method #1. Not sure if this is the least painful but I read it somewhere that it was. The reason behind this is because fish are cold-blooded their metabolism will slowly decrease with the temperature until death.

[Eddie]

dang....that is pretty cruel...but thanks for the advice.

Any comments on San Diego Discus? are their fish good?
regards,
Astolfo


Not really cruel, keeping sick fish alive is more cruel IMO.

[TURQ64]

The way I see it man, pain isn't a matter. The great Jim Quarles did it best. You take the fish in the palm of your hand and you slam the fish onto the pavement as hard as you can. The fish dies instantly, and doesn't feel any pain. ;)

ahh, Jim..R.I.P. old friend..He had some straight forward solutions for a lot of stuff..We have more house pets than Jim, so..I toss 'em on the roof; some local wildlife gets to enjoy my labors!..

[Astolfo]

ok i will do that tomorrow morning when my son is not around.

[Eddie]

ok i will do that tomorrow morning when my son is not around.

Yeah, that might be a good call. LOL

[Northwoods Discus]

Eddie
I respect your opinion a lot but smashing them on the cement with your hand! I know fish can become just a commodity to some but to a lot of people they are there adored pets also. Being a veterinarian I have to euthanize pets with conditions that are no longer treatable. For most people it is close to loosing a family member and needs to handled gently. I think the freezer method would be the most humane for the average person. Possibly the spinal separation with a knife but most can not do it quickly enough.
What methods have others used?

[Jennie]

I've done the freezer method, and the ice method and putting them in bag and slamming on floor. THAT method (slamming)was instant and the fastest way to end suffering I have used to date. I understand these are pets to some, but they are fish..not a dog or cat..and to note, what others think of my method is irrelevant..it actually works


Eddie
I respect your opinion a lot but smashing them on the cement with your hand! I know fish can become just a commodity to some but to a lot of people they are there adored pets also. Being a veterinarian I have to euthanize pets with conditions that are no longer treatable. For most people it is close to loosing a family member and needs to handled gently. I think the freezer method would be the most humane for the average person. Possibly the spinal separation with a knife but most can not do it quickly enough.
What methods have others used?

[Skip]

garbage disposal... its quick and painless.. mostly ;) but my fish were small ;)

[Jennie]

sigh lol I remember that day!

[nc0gnet0]

clove oil

[Skip]

sigh lol I remember that day!

i know! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ericatdallas]

garbage disposal... its quick and painless.. mostly ;) but my fish were small ;)

Yeah, for small fish that might work... for big fish it might not be as painless...


clove oil

How about a combination of clove oil (anesthetic) AND freezer or knife method.

The problem I have with smashing is 1) Not doing it just right and 2) I can't bring myself to do it.

I don't think I can kill any of my fish with physical force (i.e. smash or knife).

Another method I think I can do is let them get eaten by bigger fish. But discus get so big there aren't too many fish I can do that with.

[Northwoods Discus]

Is there a private joke about remembering that day? Or is this an old discussion. What we say here is relevant as there are about 73 members and 207 guests viewing. How its done is up to you and if you can do it quickly that way then that would be quick. I think most people are too squeamish to do it fast.

[ericatdallas]

What fish are big enough to eat a full-size discus? I think I remember two YouTube videos that was linked here of two different people that fed his discus to some catfish... One was some guy that said he hated discus and owned a pet store the other one fed a dead one that died of natural causes (such a bad idea due to disease but oh well).

[Keith Perkins]

Is there a private joke about remembering that day? Or is this an old discussion. What we say here is relevant as there are about 73 members and 207 guests viewing. How its done is up to you and if you can do it quickly that way then that would be quick. I think most people are too squeamish to do it fast.

I guess I don't qualify as most then, because with a good fillet knife I'll have a dead fish in 1.# seconds. Can't be much more humane than that. Oh course doc, I grew up in the U.P. to yea her da.

[Keith Perkins]

Oh Yea, if you got your money back unless you just want to keep them to see what you can do for a limited time, dump them now. Sanitize everything and start over with a sponsors or members fish perhaps.

[Northwoods Discus]

I am not a bunny hugging animal rights activist. I hunt and fish. If it is done quickly any method can be humane. I guess I just got that descriptive picture of the smashing in my mind. Ill let it go now.

[Keith Perkins]

I am not a bunny hugging animal rights activist. I hunt and fish. If it is done quickly any method can be humane. I guess I just got that descriptive picture of the smashing in my mind. Ill let it go now.

No, I agree doc. I guess if your really good at it, but I can't imagine if they miss. But if you're good with a fillet knife you never miss.

[TURQ64]

Fishing in my part of the country, you cannot return most species of rough fish (carp, etc.) alive to the water..We grow up slamming fish on the bottom of the boat...Easily aquired skill, small children learn it early...then they're tossed to the pelicans.....no use chancing a fillet knife on a fish you can't eat!

[ericatdallas]

Fishing in my part of the country, you cannot return most species of rough fish (carp, etc.) alive to the water..We grow up slamming fish on the bottom of the boat...Easily aquired skill, small children learn it early...then they're tossed to the pelicans.....no use chancing a fillet knife on a fish you can't eat!

Seems like cheap food for a marine tank :)

[DerekFF]

How about a 5g bucket and drop an M80 in there? Not sure if the bang will be big enough......but thinking about it....id rather be smacked on the concrete than thrown into a meat locker to freeze to death. Something instant, decapitation could work i guess....but a bit messy that eh?

[shawnhu]

dang....that is pretty cruel...but thanks for the advice.

Any comments on San Diego Discus? are their fish good?
regards,
Astolfo

San Diego discus is run by Chad, one of our own. He's a standup guy and his discus and care is top notch. He'll take good care of you.

[Astolfo]

@shawmhu, thanks I will buy a couple from him.
Astolfo

[inmisawa]

Astolfo,

I bought 4 discus from Chad last month at our SWDA meeting. Chad knows discus. I'll definately buy from him in the future.

[wendy9722]

Wow, I'm glad you all have the stomach to do something like that. I sure couldnt even if I really wanted to. I'd have to have someone else do it that is more heartless in that mannor. I'd rather make a post it for free some where local to where you are and if someone wants it let them have it. I think most of God's creatures deserves a chance at life but that is my opinion.

[Keith Perkins]

Wow, I'm glad you all have the stomach to do something like that. I sure couldnt even if I really wanted to. I'd have to have someone else do it that is more heartless in that mannor. I'd rather make a post it for free some where local to where you are and if someone wants it let them have it. I think most of God's creatures deserves a chance at life but that is my opinion.

I'd agree with you nearly completely if these fish were living in their own element, but we've interjected into their natural lives quite completely. Removed real predators (except for Pat's plecos), set up their water change cycles, etc., etc. If you have a fish go badly ill, have defective offspring, you have the R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y to humanely deal with it. It comes with all the enjoyment.

[wendy9722]

I'd agree with you nearly completely if these fish were living in their own element, but we've interjected into their natural lives quite completely. Removed real predators (except for Pat's plecos), set up their water change cycles, etc., etc. If you have a fish go badly ill, have defective offspring, you have the R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y to humanely deal with it. It comes with all the enjoyment.

I dont see that has enjoyment by any means!!!! If someone else likes the fish and doesnt want to breed it then let them enjoy the fish. I completly understand its not worth keeping ugly, deformed etc etc fish due to possible problems with it. If I couldnt find a home for it in a reasonable amount of time then that is when I would look for someone to cull it for me. There is plenty of people out there that dont have a passion for animals like I do that would enjoy doing such a thing. If I would have defective offspring I would let the other fish take care of the problem and fight myself to stay away from watching it happen or raise it and give it away. I personally dont have the heart to do it.....

[Keith Perkins]

Um...all the enjoyment of keeping discus.

[MostlyDiscus]

When culling discus and they are small enough they get tossed on the floor. My dog likes to rumage around a bit. If the discus are bigger and will smell when left on the floor I throw them in the freezer.

[Krelean]

Method:
1) Freezer (stick in a sandwich bag with water and stick in freezer).
2) Use Anesthetics to OD
3) Take a knife and chop the head off

I use method #1. Not sure if this is the least painful but I read it somewhere that it was. The reason behind this is because fish are cold-blooded their metabolism will slowly decrease with the temperature until death.


I always use the freezer method. They just go to sleep basically. Bag them in some water, put it in the freezer.

[Ryan]

Guys, can we please keep threads like this on-topic? There are other places on the forum for chit-chat.

To clarify a bit about the smashing on the pavement thing, I remember Cary telling me a long time ago that he would grab the fish by the tail and throw them hard against the ground. This would kill them instantly. I've never done this with big fish but I have done this with all types of small cichlid culls and if you do it hard enough, they never even flop around. They're dead the instant they hit.

For larger fish, I have always used the freezer method. Some say it's painful because ice crystals start to form in the blood while the fish are still alive, but then others say that fish cannot truly feel pain, so who do you believe? At the end of the day, sometimes culling is necessary and so whichever method you choose, just know that there are pros and cons, and that for every person who recommends that method, someone else will disapprove.

IMO, it's worse to knowingly pass on inferior quality fish to other hobbyists or fish stores, because then a poor quality fish is just changing hands and no one really wins in that case. The cycle continues.

[Astolfo]

I could not get myself to throw them on the ground, I let 2 of them die in the tank and tried to be as nice as i could possible be. I left for work and when I came back one of them was dead a few days later the other. now i have three that are doing a "bit" better and i hope that TLC will take them over the hump.

[Jason K.]

Fishing in my part of the country, you cannot return most species of rough fish (carp, etc.) alive to the water..We grow up slamming fish on the bottom of the boat...Easily aquired skill, small children learn it early...then they're tossed to the pelicans.....no use chancing a fillet knife on a fish you can't eat! I like to use a baseball bat on the carp. after the have been arrowed... bow fishing a favorite passtime of mine...

[RWD HERO]

I could not get myself to throw them on the ground, I let 2 of them die in the tank and tried to be as nice as i could possible be. I left for work and when I came back one of them was dead a few days later the other. now i have three that are doing a "bit" better and i hope that TLC will take them over the hump.

You have any pictures? Im curious to see these fish.

[hillmar78]

I like to use clove oil and 3 shots of vodka. Clove oil to put him to sleep, 2 shots of vodka to put him down. 1 shot of vodka for myself for sending the little guy to fish heaven. There is no better way to go then drunk I say!

[neon]

Contact john snookn21 to get some nice wilds from him. He is also a sponsor here as well. I just order from him and got some nice fish from him I will be doing business with him again in the future.

[mmorris]

but then others say that fish cannot truly feel pain, so who do you believe?

Of course they can feel pain and for those of you who enjoy catch and release, believing the practice to be humane - mother nature put nerve endings in their little lips so they won't drag them along the bottom of the stream.

[zchauvin]

Of course they can feel pain and for those of you who enjoy catch and release, believing the practice to be humane - mother nature put nerve endings in their little lips so they won't drag them along the bottom of the stream.

Well for one God put nerve ending in there lips not mother nature... but I'm guessing you think we come from monkeys hmmm. Anyways this is not a forum for religion but I will chime in and say that I like catch and release for the sake of the catching a trophy and letting it live on. Not to keep and kill something that makes us enjoy that outdoors, non the less if you kill it is something in our human nature or any other meat eaters nature to hunt for food. Or do you also only eat salads???

[mmorris]

Or do you also only eat salads???

Nope. :)

[zchauvin]

Nope. :)

Ahh great :)) I love fish either to keep as in these beautiful fish and as in bass and game fish :) now back to discus ;)

[Discus Origins]

Well for one God put nerve ending in there lips not mother nature... but I'm guessing you think we come from monkeys hmmm.

Who are you to post a comment like this? This is a DISCUS forum, yes you're right this is not a forum for religion so don't start something you can't finish. GOD can be many things at one time, in fact your GOD is not someone else's GOD lets say from the middle east or asia.....christianity didn't even exist in most 3rd world countries until it was imposed (non-believers slaughtered) to 'spread' the word of God.

As for coming from monkeys...well you can ignore all the scientific evidence and continue to sit on your butt which has a coccyx, reminents of a TAIL. Getting back on discus, you can SEE tiny changes in evoluntion happening with breeding lines of fish. For humans who have only been recorded on earth for approximately 10,000 yrs....its stupid for us to comment on a process that may or may not have happened over millions of years, something we can't even fathom. I guess all the fossils we keep digging up from 60-100 million years ago are all hoaxes and nothing existed until humans roamed the earth?

[calihawker]

I hear Al coming down the hallway getting ready to shut the door on this thread.:)

[flyman767]

TO HUMANELY PUT A FISH DOWN:
1) Place fish in container
2) Add 10 drops clove oil/gallon
3) When anesthetic takes effect(usually within 20min)increase clove oil 5X

Fish will usually expire within a couple of hours. If you have any doubts..leave overnight in container...DONE

[Discus Origins]

I hear Al coming down the hallway getting ready to shut the door on this thread.:)

LOL....yea I think I hear footsteps too. Sorry Al, just dont think there is place for a religion/evolution comment on the discus forum.

[calihawker]

TO HUMANELY PUT A FISH DOW:
1) Place fish in container
2) Add 10 drops clove oil/gallon
3) When anesthetic takes effect(usually within 20min)increase clove oil 5X

Fish will usually expire within a couple of hours. If you have any doubts..leave overnight in container...DONE

Not being critical just honestly curious, how is a slow death over several hours more humane than instantaneous death even with anesthesia?

[flyman767]

Not being critical just honestly curious, how is a slow death over several hours more humane than instantaneous death even with anesthesia?

It's not several hours, it's a few minutes. The clove oil acts as an anesthetic, the fish falls asleep. There is no jumping or flopping. If you did nothing else after the initial 10 drops, the fish would wake up and have no ill effects. Similar to you having a surgery and being knocked out. Once the fish is asleep, you increase the clove oil 5X..this is what ultimately allows the internal organs to shutdown.

[Arjunpun]

I like to use clove oil and 3 shots of vodka. Clove oil to put him to sleep, 2 shots of vodka to put him down. 1 shot of vodka for myself for sending the little guy to fish heaven. There is no better way to go then drunk I say!
i like the vodka part lol

[zchauvin]

LOL....yea I think I hear footsteps too. Sorry Al, just dont think there is place for a religion/evolution comment on the discus forum.

As I said this is the reason I ended that part of my reply abruptly and said back to fish. But is it not just as wrong to express your opinion about mother nature doing something as opposed to god. I am not forcing my religion upon anyone simply putting my opinion as someone else did and as you are. I'm well aware there are MANY religions and each to his own. My statement was not intended to start an argument or anything of the such. Everyone has an opinion and on sure you will respect that as I do.

[brewmaster15]

Lol,
My reputation precedes me again! :)

Okay everyone... Lets keep religion out of the discussions, once people start down that path it never ends in agreement and rarely ends in civil fashion. WE all have our own beliefs on religion and evolution. For matters of practicality though lets all just agree that certain basic scientific principals relate to fish and other life forms such as the existence of sensory and pain Nerves in vertebrate animals. Its a fact they exist and they are there to serve certain purposes.

As for the topic itself of how to euthanize a fish...Thats a topic thats been exhausted here and elsewhere... and in itself much like religion...everyone has a belief on it...Do a search here on Simply... and you'll find much discussion already and if you want to see just how diverse the opinions are... search Google "Euthanizing Fish"..Its been discussed ad nauseam.

http://www.google.com/search?q=euthanizing+Fish&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

regards,
al

[zchauvin]

I'm good with that :)

[mmorris]

Isn't this fun? I expected to get hammered from the catch-and-release folks but instead... :)

[zchauvin]

Isn't this fun? I expected to get hammered from the catch-and-release folks but instead... :)

Lol I'd rather just keep it to discus but I still catch and release!!! Hahah

[oscarzx]

Man this thread made me giggle a little bit..

Toilet IMO

[oscarzx]

Who knows, maybe in a few years you'll have a beast discus swimming underneath your house.

[hillmar78]

i like the vodka part lol

yeah and don't be stingy on the vodka!!
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/mazda6fan/98966acc.jpg
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-humane-way-to-euthanize-a-fish.htm