why are FBW so bad?

[Vicfortier]

I see everyone here talking about how fish get addicted to bloodworms and asking how to get them off off the picky diet. I was just wondering what is wrong with them? Not enough nutes? Low protien? Why is it bad to feed them daily?

[jimg]

I don't feed them except as roughage when I think they may need it. not enough nutrients,protein as you say. but who really knows what they need, some feed exclusively fbw and swear by them.
I also do not trust the Chinese /(Japanese whatever!) sterilization they claim.. if they use lead paint in baby products do you think they care what in your fish food?!

[nc0gnet0]

Chinese blood worms? You mean Japanese?

[brewmaster15]

These are just my opinions, so take them with a grain of salt.... I think the largest concerns with blood worms are that they
1) can cause serious allergic reactions in hobbyists
2)nutritionally questionable.. not all protein is created equal as far as digestibility and usage. Exoskeletons are not well digested, IMO.
3) collected in the wild or possibly "farmed" outdoors which means higher potential for for picking pathogens and higher potential for absorbing pollutants.
4) Sterilized???????Not sure how much faith to put into that but since we don't know the processes used I can't really comment there in any meaningful way
5) Theres many better foods nutritionally and cost wise.... IMO.


Hth,
al

[DiscusOnly]

I don't feed them except as roughage when I think they may need it. not enough nutrients,protein as you say. but who really knows what they need, some feed exclusively fbw and swear by them.
I also do not trust the Chinese sterilization they claim.. if they use lead paint in baby products do you think they care what in your fish food?!


I am assuming you are talking about Hikari CBW. If that is the case, they are probably made in California, not China.

Why do most consider it bad? It does have a low protein (6%) content and there is A LOT of water in the food (89% moisture)! You also have to consider the allergy factor. I don't use it anymore for that reason.

[Rick S]

In my opinion they do carry pathogens and I have stopped feeding them.

Rick

[jimg]

In my opinion they do carry pathogens and I have stopped feeding them.

Rick

It always seemed that whenever I fed them too I would always get some problem shortly after. It may be coincidence, but I will go months without giving them then I'll think what the hell many do with no problems so I get them and every time I swear never again!

[Rick S]

I have gone through the same cycle many times and have always had pathogens as a result. I'm sure some will disagree but I speak only from my experience.

Rick

[gsteve]

[QUOTE=brewmaster15;744520]These are just my opinions, so take them with a grain of salt.... I think the largest concerns with blood worms are that they
1) can cause serious allergic reactions in hobbyists


Could you give me more info on the allergies. I have had the worst allergies in my life the last few months. Super itchy eyes , sinus probs etc. I was wondering if it was algae or other fish related probs , never thought about the worms. Thanks sj

[dawrtw]

I was getting ready to write the exact words about the super itchy eyes, etc. I am having some of the worst allergies of my life. Never once considered my fish food. Please tell me more.

[DiscusOnly]

[QUOTE=brewmaster15;744520]These are just my opinions, so take them with a grain of salt.... I think the largest concerns with blood worms are that they
1) can cause serious allergic reactions in hobbyists


Could you give me more info on the allergies. I have had the worst allergies in my life the last few months. Super itchy eyes , sinus probs etc. I was wondering if it was algae or other fish related probs , never thought about the worms. Thanks sj

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?81715-Blood-worm-poll-ands-allergies&highlight=allergic

I had no problem using FBW in the beginning. I thought that it was cool hand feeding my discus with FBW. The excess exposure made me allergic to it. What's worse was that I became allergic to the Freeze Dried Bloodworm by Hikari as well. I ended up with allergic reaction a few times a week for weeks until I did a major wipe down of everything around my house.

Van

[CORVETTE70]

If i don't wash my hands throughly right after feeding FRW my eye's swell like crazy, always have....

[Vicfortier]

Ok, I was just wondering. I currently use hikari bloodworms. I ordered some of Al's FDBW… Figure ill give them a try and try to ween my discus off the hikari BW. Are the FDBW ok to use a as a growth promoter in replacment of BH? I don't want to deal with the mess of BH.

[ZX10R]

I see everyone here talking about how fish get addicted to bloodworms and asking how to get them off off the picky diet. I was just wondering what is wrong with them? Not enough nutes? Low protien? Why is it bad to feed them daily?

I have asked this question before about why do people claim FBW are so bad besides allergies. But then pictures you see of fish our sponsors on here are selling they are pictures of them feeding the fish you are about to buy FBW. The breeder I bought my first fish from he is not a sponsor on here that is all he told me to feed my fish was FBW and FBS. Here is the thread I started didn't get much response I guess since it was related to our sponsor. Which by no means am I talking bad about our sponsors I have bought almost all my fish from them and will continue.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?83965-If-bloodworms-harbor-parasites-then-why-do-most-sponsors-feed-them-to-there-fish&highlight=


I was getting ready to write the exact words about the super itchy eyes, etc. I am having some of the worst allergies of my life. Never once considered my fish food. Please tell me more.

I never have had problems allergies in my life until this past week or so. I am hoping it is the weather and not FBW which I have been feeding for over a year and have not had any problems before.

[gsteve]

Well holy ... smokes... I would have never thought it was the BW either. I like to feed my guys by hand and never did much about washing my hands after. I have had night where my eyes were swollen almost shut and they were so gunked up in the morning i could barely open them. Throwing out BW as we speak. All BH and salmon from here on.

[Second Hand Pat]

Who would have thought you would need to put the label TOXIC on fish food. I have feed FBW twice but never again.

[gsteve]

You would not believe how bad i reacted.... i have put uv lights in my furnace , bought a air purifier for the bedroom and have been chokin on allergy pills for 2 months. Wow. sj

[dawrtw]

I am so glad to see this post.
I went home for lunch today. Fed the fish a big chunk of FBW. Had not given them any for a while, thought it would be a nice treat. Washed my hands, (not like a Dr. would do, but I thought it was sufficient). Came back to work and was checking the new posts on here. Started reading this one. Noticed my eye was giving me a little irritation. One of the ladies in the office frantically asks OMG, what is wrong with your eye. They had swelled up and looked like I had burst a blood vein.

This all happened within 30 minutes of feeding bloodworms. I've been having lingering problems for months now. I have even been to the Dr. who was treating me for sinus problems. I have read every entry of this thread and it seems that they are all written about me.

Anybody want some bloodworms?
This answers a lot of questions for me.

[DiscusOnly]

Well holy ... smokes... I would have never thought it was the BW either. I like to feed my guys by hand and never did much about washing my hands after. I have had night where my eyes were swollen almost shut and they were so gunked up in the morning i could barely open them. Throwing out BW as we speak. All BH and salmon from here on.

It tooks me week to figured it out. One of the worse reaction I got was from the Freeze Dried Hikari bloodworm. I must have gotten it on my keyboard. I was fine in the morning and had a 90 minutes drive to do a software demo. As I left the meeting and got on the elevator, I started sensing my lips and eyes starting to swell. I made a quick stop to CVS and got some Alavert to make the drive home. A lot of people don't realize that the alergic reaction develops over time.

I said if you can avoid using it, do so. It's just not worth the hassle. I have kids and have neighborhood kids that come around to watch the fish and the last thing I need is for one of them to have an alergic reaction.

[kaceyo]

I've been feeding FBW's daily since starting with discus and consider them to be a valuable part of my fishes diet. I've tried the off brands (non-Hikari brands) and was having trouble with internal diseases at that time but havn't since switching to hikari exclusivly.
Their protien level is comparable to blackworms when both are freeze dried. I would like to see a breakdown on the bio-availability of the protiens in FBW.
I don't worry about the exoskeleton as many fish eat insects, so I assume (ya, I know) that they have developed the means to digest or pass them. I think it may help keep them regular, and we all want regular discus, right!!! My fish don't seem to have any problem with them.

[rev2eight]

no allergies here and i feed them everyday amongst other things. Although, every packet of FBW ive seen have had a warning label about the possible allergic reaction. Perhaps the cube packs would be a better idea for those that want limited exposure to this stuff?

[gsteve]

I just googled it... very common. Not telling the wife as she thinks the work and hassle my discus are is nuts! But I love em. sj

[ZX10R]

I never touch mine by hand and I buy the cube packs Of Hikari. I keep a small cup in the sink when it is feeding time I pop a few cubes in the cup then dump that into the tank and rinse the cup for next use. That way I never come in contact with the cubes themselves.

[brewmaster15]

Close to 30% of the members here that have responded to Polls have experienced allergic reactions to frozen Bloodworms...and most that do, didn't have it at first, but acquired it thru use... I can't touch the them now, and can name many members here in the same boat.my eyes swell up, I get welts and I've had asthma reactions when I've been in a room where they have been heavily fed. Its a known issue in many aquaculture industries.

I honestly feel everyone has the potential to become allergic...and this is based on so many I know that had no allergy and now do....

-al

[Second Hand Pat]

For those of you who wish to continue to use FBW, consider using latex gloves when handling them. Damm glad the fishes are not allergic to FBW :noway:

[brewmaster15]

For those of you who wish to continue to use FBW, consider using latex gloves when handling them. Damm glad the fishes are not allergic to FBW :noway:

definitely and don't rely on washing your hands as protection...I did that once , only to rub my eye a few hours latter, and it swelled shut. Additionally, if the blood worms touch the tanks trim, that will still cause a reaction days and days latter... I went for about 6 months with welts on my arm at the elbow before I figured that out!

-al

[mikel]

"I also do not trust the Chinese /(Japanese whatever!) sterilization they claim.. if they use lead paint in baby products do you think they care what in your fish food?!"...

Wow, way to generalize more than 1.365 billion people, and the world's 2nd and 3rd largest economies in one single stroke.

[daveo]

I had no idea about the allergic reactions people could get from FBW. I use the Hikari brand all the time but am not to happy with the new packaged ones in the cube form. They seem to be fatter and and not the same.

I have allways washed my hands after using them do to the rotten smell, and try not to handle them at all.. (good thing I guess)

It might be time to head up to my butcher this weekend and get my PORKERT hand grinder out. By the way you can still get parts for these old work horses.

Daveo

[mikel]

Buy FD CBW from Al, and learn to make the BH/seafood mix (it's really easy and fun...if you dont like BH, then just the seafood mix). And you will never have to use blood worm again. I have not used it for 2 years now and my fish seem far happier and healthier. mike

[jimmyjoe]

Never had a problem with Frozen Blood Worms, have always washed my hand real good after feeding just because of the smell. Also have never had problems with the fish eating them, I also buy FBW from Hikari , I trust that product more than San Francisco Bay blood worms.........................JMO Jim in Ohio

[gsteve]

Just gave mine to petsmart... man im glad i found this out. Was driving me nuts , actually have a drs apt tuesday because of all the rank allergy stuff i have going on.

[Eddie]

These are just my opinions, so take them with a grain of salt.... I think the largest concerns with blood worms are that they
1) can cause serious allergic reactions in hobbyists
2)nutritionally questionable.. not all protein is created equal as far as digestibility and usage. Exoskeletons are not well digested, IMO.
3) collected in the wild or possibly "farmed" outdoors which means higher potential for for picking pathogens and higher potential for absorbing pollutants.
4) Sterilized???????Not sure how much faith to put into that but since we don't know the processes used I can't really comment there in any meaningful way
5) Theres many better foods nutritionally and cost wise.... IMO.


Hth,
al

Cut and dry ;)

[Jhhnn]

Hikari FBW have been a part of my discus' diet since I came back to keeping them 2 years ago. I also feed Carol's beefheart, seafood mix, Hikari FBS, Hikari frozen spirulina brineshrimp, and frozen Hikari mysis. I haven't experienced any allergies to the FBW, and my fish have grown quite large and are overall extremely healthy. They like the FBW and the beefheart best.

The latest batch of FBW does contain some larger specimens, oddly enough, which my smaller discus, ~ 4.5"-5", don't seem to want to eat... the big boys & girls eat 'em all, regardless of worm size. I just started on the new batch, so we'll see how it works out.

They also get occasional treats of FDBW, pre-soaked.

[hedut]

Well this is funny:). Well every fish love real food and not fake one :). so do you love the real food or can food? BH is human man made food and you won't find in the wild ;)

[brewmaster15]

Well this is funny:). Well every fish love real food and not fake one :). so do you love the real food or can food? BH is human man made food and you won't find in the wild ;)

Hmmm Hendri, So are you saying that because a food is a "natural" food ( as in found in nature in wild uninfluenced by humans Form) its better for a fish nutritionally than a man made food? I disagree if you are. I hear that arguement about BH not being in the wild a discus comes from all the time..and my reply is neither are tetra bits, pellets,, flakes, Baby brine shrimp, etc...and yet all these are used successfully in the aquaculture of discus. Matter of fact, I don't know a large hatchery out there that does not use Beef, ox, or turkey heart mixes as their main/only food for discus by the thousands and thousands...I doubt that they could afford it if they fed "natural" foods and I doubt that they could meet the nutritional requirements of growing and breeding discus as well without these man made foods.

Tubifex is Natural food...raised in and largely collected in sewage and heavy metal contaminated water...is that better than a commercial man made food or handmade BH heart or seafood mix? I think not...but the Discus do like tubifex greatly!

Adult live Brine shrimp or frozen are another great "natural" food...almost totally devoid of some essential nutrients for fish development...Hence the mfgs now tout "enriching" them ..I've fed these as treats..and man oh man the discus Love them.

-al

[MostlyDiscus]

Well now that you mention it I have had some of the same things going with eyes etc. I thought it was from the high humidity but Im thinking otherwise. The main diet for my fish right now is freeze dried blackworms. Great growth no mess. If there is a way to buy another kilo from someone(hint hint) Im in the market. Ed

[brewmaster15]

The main diet for my fish right now is freeze dried blackworms. Great growth no mess. If there is a way to buy another kilo from someone(hint hint) Im in the market. Ed

Got you covered my friend ! :) Just sent you an email.

thanks!
-al

[hedut]

I mean is if natural food could make discus grow more bigger and man made food could make discus more beautiful :)

[vss]

from what I heard, bloodworms cannot be farm raised and can only survive in very dirty environment, which might also be contaminated. they're very hard to clean. Hikari is the cleanest, but still I do not 100% trust it. Seriously, before every feeding of FBW, I first soak the worms in dark PP for 20 minutes and then rinse it very well just to be safe. The only good part of BW is that discus love it and it does not dirt the water. I'd also highly recommend the frozen dried black worms from Al. My fish love it even more than the FBW, and it is nutritious enough to be fed massively as one of the staple food.

Xiaofei :)

[Chaotica]

hmm why none of you uses Ocean's nutricion bloodworms ? or am i missing smthing i havent seen it posted anywhere . plus i think its one of the cleanest out there , altho i havent tryied hikari yet !

[jimmyjoe]

I'd like to say what are all you people smoking or drinking, or maybe it's because I wash my hands after using FBW's. Maybe it's the individuals using said product. Some people are allergic to grass so does that mean they should rip out there front yards an put concrete in and paint it green or what. I can feel where you guys and gals are coming from but my god it's a fish and a hobby. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going, IMO you either use FBW's or you don't, I do an have never had problem's with any at all. Excuse me Al but it seems because you've had problems now they're all coming out of the wood work, could this be favoritism but this is JMO.................Jim in Ohio

[brewmaster15]

I'd like to say what are all you people smoking or drinking, or maybe it's because I wash my hands after using FBW's. Maybe it's the individuals using said product. Some people are allergic to grass so does that mean they should rip out there front yards an put concrete in and paint it green or what. I can feel where you guys and gals are coming from but my god it's a fish and a hobby. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going, IMO you either use FBW's or you don't, I do an have never had problem's with any at all. Excuse me Al but it seems because you've had problems now they're all coming out of the wood work, could this be favoritism but this is JMO.................Jim in Ohio Say what Jim? Do me a favor before you make comments like that and do a net search on it...You'll answer your own question.

Its real simple Jim and it ain't Rocket Science...... go to google.com and enter the words..Bloodworms Allergies :)

Personally I'm glad that some hobbyists out there have identified their allergy to blood worms...because I'll tell you what if you haven't experienced it...you have not a clue on how bad it can get. I've been bringing this topic up for years on the forum .


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Bad Allergies to Bloodworms
this morning I fed my fish bloodworms, but I didn't even touch the worms themselves I just pressed the foil on the back of the package.
www.aquariacentral.com/.../showthread.php?...Allergies...Bloodworms/... - Cached
5.
Bloodworms As Fish Food
Apr 8, 2010 ... It is possible for Humans to become allergic to all sorts of things. Allergies to frozen Bloodworms are not common, but can certainly happen ...
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are bloodworms safe for cats? - thecatsite.com Forums
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are bloodworms safe for cats? Cat Nutrition. ... My only other concern would be allergies. I know that humans can be severly allergic to ...
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POTENTIAL ALLERGEN- Bloodworms | Facebook
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The allergy to Bloodworms is technically a Chironomid allergy, normally rare, but seen amongst fish-keepers and ID'ed as such by scientists. ...
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8.
What do you to deal with your allergies for blood worms when ...
Aug 6, 2010 ... I'm not allergic, but if I was I would probably simply not feed bloodworms. There are other fresh foods you can feed instead. ...
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What Are Those Tiny Red Worms In The Pond?
Feb 24, 2011 ... Although bloodworm allergies are rare, some people are allergic to bloodworms, whether they are fresh, frozen or freeze-dried. ...
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10.
blood worms for sale
Hiatis Hernia, Pleurisy, Intestinal Worms, EBOOK. (53) Headaches & Migraine (23) Alcoholism (54) Heart Disease (24) Allergies (55) High Blood Cholesterol ...
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1.
Fish Food Allergies - The Angelfish Forum II - Focused on ...
6 posts - 5 authors - Last post: May 20, 2005
He knew about bloodworms and allergic reactions. ... May people have experienced blood worm allergies - sneezing, watery eyes, ...
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2.
Bloodworm Allergies | ehow.co.uk
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Bloodworm Allergies. Bloodworms are the larvae of insects called chironimidae, or midge flies. They develop in freshwater environments such as rivers and ...
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3.
Are You Allergic to Freeze-Dried Bloodworms? [Archive] - Betta ...
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[Archive] Are You Allergic to Freeze-Dried Bloodworms? Betta Food.
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4.
Bloodworms?
I have read (certainly) of people experiencing allergies that affect their skin. ... What has happened to me, is that I bought some bloodworms, ...
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5.
Alergic reaction to frozen blood worms? [Archive] - Aquarium Forum
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Very possible, I nearly died from a severe allergic reaction to bloodworms. I would personally see a doctor, get a couple of shots and youll ...
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6.
Bloodworms in My Pond Plants | dailypuppy.com
They develop in freshwater environments such as rivers and lakes and are often used as fish food. Bloodworms can cause allergic reactions in fish food ...
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7.
can frozen bloodworms cause parasites? - monsterfishkeepers.com
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Almost every coworker who had been there for a while at my old job at a wholesaler was allergic to bloodworms. They insisted it was from ...
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8.
Bloodworms As Fish Food | Food worlds
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Allergies It is doable for Humans to embellish hypersensitised to all sorts of things. Allergies to frozen Bloodworms are not common, ...
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9.
Human Parasites: we dispel the myths and present the essential facts.
This worm attaches itself to the human intestines where it drinks blood (this worm actually has .... “Colonies Within: allergies from intestinal parasites. ...
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Frontosa.com • View topic - Frozen bloodworms good for fronts?
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Alot of people are allergic to bloodworms, handle with care if it's your first time. I am agree with Kamerrosa, if the BW (Blood Worms) are ...
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2.
Blood worms dangerous to people? - Page 2
Sep 4, 2008 ... I know my allergy developped over time... I started out being fine touching and handling any kinds of bloodworms, then started sneezing, ...
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3.
Bloodworms?
I keep reading that bloodworms sink and stuff yet my freeze dried bloodworms won't ... "Midge larvae have been known to cause mild allergies in some people. ...
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4.
Amazon.com: Tetra Blood Worms Freeze Dried Reptile Treat, .28oz ...
This review is from: Tetra Blood Worms Freeze Dried Reptile Treat, .28oz (Misc.) WARNING!! IF YOU SUFFER FROM ALLERGIES AND HAVE BEEN USING THIS PRODUCT ...
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5.
Bloodworms As Fish Food
Jun 19, 2010 ... Allergies It is possible for Humans to become allergic to all sorts of things. Allergies to frozen Bloodworms are not common, ...
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6.
2 year old and frozen blood worms - Aquarium Forum
Mar 26, 2010 ... Actually, he would have shown symptoms by now, alot of people have a blind allergy to bloodworms and can cause severe internal issues and ...
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7.
Frozen food allergies? - africancichlidforum
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If you're like me and are allergic to handling bloodworms, here's a tip. Try using those plastic food service gloves. ...
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bloodworms in the pond filter?? - Site for Goldfish Keepers
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bloodworms in the pond filter?? Goldfish in the Pond. ... that has developed allergy to their bites and that is a real challenge to manage. ...
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Bloodworms make me itch!!! - Cichlid Forums
11 posts - 7 authors - Last post: Feb 25, 2007
Over the last few months I've become extremely allergic to bloodworms. I've been using them almost 10 years with no problems until now. ...
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10.
How+to+grow+bloodworms | High Protein Diet Plan
Allergies It is possible for Humans to become allergic to all sorts of things. Allergies to frozen Bloodworms are not common, but can certainly happen. ...
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imagine that....and thats only the first couple of pages.... :bandana:

-al

ps..
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?81715-Blood-worm-poll-ands-allergies&highlight=allergic

[gsteve]

Well said. Joey has no clue what he speaks of.

[DiscusOnly]

I'd like to say what are all you people smoking or drinking, or maybe it's because I wash my hands after using FBW's. Maybe it's the individuals using said product. Some people are allergic to grass so does that mean they should rip out there front yards an put concrete in and paint it green or what. I can feel where you guys and gals are coming from but my god it's a fish and a hobby. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going, IMO you either use FBW's or you don't, I do an have never had problem's with any at all. Excuse me Al but it seems because you've had problems now they're all coming out of the wood work, could this be favoritism but this is JMO.................Jim in Ohio

Wow...I don't know what to say. People are allergic to peanut and the don't put up walls but they do have "peanut free" classroom. Just because you are not allergic to it doesn't make others liar. Posting their negative experiences is to inform others, not some secret agendas.

I didn't know what the heck was going on with me until I started searching a few years back. This is one of the post that helped me figured out what was going on.

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/fyi-your-info/7917-warning-about-freeze-dried-bloodworms.html

Van

[korbi_doc]

;) Ok, c'mon guys....there is no doubt that anything can cause allergies, & some of these reactions from FBWs from ANY source can be severe....& if one develops allergies from FBWs, then of course, STOP USING THEM!! As Al has shown, 'bout 30% + ppl do this, so there are lots of other options.....as for myself, I can touch the flats & break'm up & feed & so far all ok, use as treats at nite....been lucky, no reaction yet, & when I go on trips, my friends can use the cubes & not touch'm....no pblms so far...but sure would stop if there is one.....just use common sense & all will be well!! JMO

Dottie :p

[LizStreithorst]

Oh my. I came upon this topic late. I consider FBWs to be a good food. I have fed them in the past. the fish like them and have never had a problem with them. As Dottie said, if you are allergic, don't mess with them. A lot of people are. I'm not.

Al, you know what I think about live foods (the foods that fish might encounter in nature). I think that nothing can beat them. The more, the better. The fish do best on foods that God or evolution created them to eat. Live foods have all the nutrients that they need. That's nature. Hell, you're a biologist. You should know this.

Frozen is good, freeze dried is better, live is by far the best. Pellets and flake will do do keep them alive. If you want the best from your fish, feeding as much live as you have time for is the way to go.

Sorry...posting after too many beers.

[Eddie]

Oh my. I came upon this topic late. I consider FBWs to be a good food. I have fed them in the past. the fish like them and have never had a problem with them. As Dottie said, if you are allergic, don't mess with them. A lot of people are. I'm not.

Al, you know what I think about live foods (the foods that fish might encounter in nature). I think that nothing can beat them. The more, the better. The fish do best on foods that God or evolution created them to eat. Live foods have all the nutrients that they need. That's nature. Hell, you're a biologist. You should know this.

Frozen is good, freeze dried is better, live is by far the best. Pellets and flake will do do keep them alive. If you want the best from your fish, feeding as much live as you have time for is the way to go.

Sorry...posting after too many beers.

;) Keep the posts coming Liz!

[Vicfortier]

Hey al, about how long does it take for your fdbw to ship to va? I need em!

[hillmar78]

I'm new to the hobby and discus.... And i feed them FBW + FBS. I usually dump 2 cubes of bloodworms with 1 cube of brine shrimp in a cup and thaw with 1 teaspoon of seachem garlic extract, then dump the cup into the fishtank. Should I worry about this feeding?

[Ryan]

I am only allergic to the Hikari brand bloodworms. I have to immediately wash my hands or I'm in trouble. I inevitably touch my eyes or face and suddenly I'm burning and itching. My allergy hasn't worsened in the last 5 years or so, though, so I still feed and am just careful to wash up really well.

Like Al, I've found that my arms break out during water changes because I touch the tank rims.

I feel that they're a good food -- I raised my batch of white butterflies a few years ago exclusively on beefheart, bloodworms, and ONF1 flakes, and they ended up being 7"+ fish with considerable bulk. I also use them on all my cichlid grow outs -- severums, festivums, Krobia, geos, etc.

I'd end up spending a fortune on the freeze-dried blackworms, unfortunately. I went through the bag Al sent me in a week or so. :(

[Arjunpun]

I never had this problem. I feed hikari bloodworm. al blackworm. but my fish like blackworm more than bloodworm so I may not use it anymore.

[brewmaster15]

Hey al, about how long does it take for your fdbw to ship to va? I need em!

Vic I ship daily, so only a few days.


Oh my. I came upon this topic late. I consider FBWs to be a good food. I have fed them in the past. the fish like them and have never had a problem with them. As Dottie said, if you are allergic, don't mess with them. A lot of people are. I'm not.

Al, you know what I think about live foods (the foods that fish might encounter in nature). I think that nothing can beat them. The more, the better. The fish do best on foods that God or evolution created them to eat. Live foods have all the nutrients that they need. That's nature. Hell, you're a biologist. You should know this.

Frozen is good, freeze dried is better, live is by far the best. Pellets and flake will do do keep them alive. If you want the best from your fish, feeding as much live as you have time for is the way to go.

Sorry...posting after too many beers.

Liz,I do know your opinion on live ,..no offense, but sorry,. I disagree with you. I chose the food I feed my fish based on different parameters than you and these work well for me....To me Live food is just another option with its pluses and minuses..nothing more.Its not inherently better because its "live", in some case I feel its actually not a good food at all.

Frozen Blood worms are not a bad food, theres worse and theres better,IMO. Obviously some people love them as food...and the fish do as well.......but they do have drawbacks people should weigh when considering feeding them. Every food does.

Back to the allergies... The More you use something that is a strong allergen...the greater the chance you will develop an allergy...and thats a fact...Bloodworms meet this criteria and that also is a fact(Google Midges and allergies)...whether they are a good food is irrelevant if your eyes swell shut, you can't breath, and get hives all over you from them,IMO.. Theres plenty of other foods people can feed, If theres one thing we know about discus there is about as many ways to raise them as there are people with opinions about them. :)

I will say this... Of the 9 Admin/ Moderators I have here...5 (3 admins/2 mods) have allergies now to Bloodworms, and did not originally., these 5 have been in the Hobby the Longest of the 9 and have had the most exposure... One of the Mods here I have been talking with for years about it and that mod was not allergic for the longest time.. a few months ago he told me now his hands itch when they touch them....thats a indicator of allergy.... Take that for what its worth...or ignore it..doesn't matter to me either way.

-al

[dawrtw]

I have been using FBW for about two years now. Never a problem, didn't even have a clue that anyone else was having a problem. Not till I ran across this thread did I have a clue of such a concern.

I have been having health concerns including my eyes swelling totally shut. Doctors were treating me for sinus problems etc. Constantly getting sick at the drop of a hat was also very depressing and taking its toll. I thought it was a "God Send" when I ran across this thread.

I have no hidden motive nor desire to cause the food producers any problems. I really like the products. I am not advocating a boycott nor any other such tactic. Armed with this information I will simply make new arrangements when feeding my fish.

I was estatic to finally see a possible light at the end of the tunnel for my condition. At least now, I have some hope that I may get some relief soon.

It's highly dissappointing to see someone take a positive thread of useful information like this one and turn it into a conspiracy. I am pleased that you are not having any of the problems that I and others are going through.

[jimmyjoe]

All I'm trying to imply is you either have allergies or not, if so don't use them or atleast take precationary measures on using them. As far as a conspiracy on the forum, well my goodness it's an opinion and a valed one at that. I think their's alot of conspiracy on here just because you think there's a conspiracy. This thread was started for hobbiest's to be aware of what could happen when using FBW's, so if all you people that have FBW's and want to get rid of the horrible affliction's you are getting from these terrible FBW's send me an IM I'll take them off your swollen paws or itchy eyes no pun intended. This is my opinion and only my opinion not wanting to start a freeking war here...................Jim

[brewmaster15]

All I'm trying to imply is you either have allergies or not, if so don't use them or atleast take precationary measures on using them. As far as a conspiracy on the forum, well my goodness it's an opinion and a valed one at that. I think their's alot of conspiracy on here just because you think there's a conspiracy. This thread was started for hobbiest's to be aware of what could happen when using FBW's, so if all you people that have FBW's and want to get rid of the horrible affliction's you are getting from these terrible FBW's send me an IM I'll take them off your swollen paws or itchy eyes no pun intended. This is my opinion and only my opinion not wanting to start a freeking war here...................Jim

Jim,
You can have your opinion, but when you make statements like
Excuse me Al but it seems because you've had problems now they're all coming out of the wood work, could this be favoritism but this is JMO.................Jim in Ohio that imply the posts of others experiences are not valid because they may be influenced by someone else is just pure BS, You were out of line. If you want to be a troll.. find another site, I've had it with members posting junk on this forum. If you want to take it up with me, by all means do so...but posts like yours are not welcome on this forum.


Regards,
al

[Vicfortier]

Just got my FDBW in today and fed them just a minute ago. The discus love them! Thanks Al! And as far as all the allergies go, I think after so many people posting on this thread with major problems related to bloodworms and not knowing the bloodworms were the cause maybe we should have a sticky relating to bloodworm allergies? I think its a good idea as a informative sticky that could help people having serious health problems with no idea a simple fish food could be the cause. Anyone second this?

[Skip]

wow!! allergies using FBW!? thats crazy!

[brewmaster15]

Just got my FDBW in today and fed them just a minute ago. The discus love them! Thanks Al! And as far as all the allergies go, I think after so many people posting on this thread with major problems related to bloodworms and not knowing the bloodworms were the cause maybe we should have a sticky relating to bloodworm allergies? I think its a good idea as a informative sticky that could help people having serious health problems with no idea a simple fish food could be the cause. Anyone second this?

Glad The freeze dried blackworms got there and your fish love them! :)

.... and as for your idea... I think its a great idea...I'll try and put together an article on it and I will stick it to the top of the section...I'll also try to include in that article scientific references on the allergens in it. Theres been alot of work on that.
Thanks for the idea.

-al

[nc0gnet0]

Back to the allergies... The More you use something that is a strong allergen...the greater the chance you will develop an allergy...and thats a fact...Bloodworms meet this criteria and that also is a fact(Google Midges and allergies)...whether they are a good food is irrelevant if your eyes swell shut, you can't breath, and get hives all over you from them,IMO..

Nailed it. Repeated and long term exposure can sensitize a person to any number of allergins. See stacci botrus

From a nutritional stand point, most live foods are over 95% water, so I really don't understand this argument (live is better). (I have wondered however nutritionally, what the content would be of freeze dried bloodworms.) There is always this perception that what a fish eats in its natural enviroment should be replicated in the aquarium, but a fish's survival rate in the wild is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 in 1000, not to mention extremely low stocking densitys, something the home aquarist could never replicate, or even want to. Suffice it to say, that despite all the issues we encounter in our discus aquariums (which are many), a fish still has a much better chance at survival and a longer, healthier life than it would in the wild.

Rick

[Jhhnn]

Obviously, people who are severely allergic to FBW shouldn't have them around. Those of us who aren't can obviously feed them as part of a varied diet, something I see as very important. Speaking of that, I need to partially defrost some spirulina brineshrimp, cut it into squares and refreeze for later feeding. Good stuff, helps my discus get their veggies...

[strawberryblonde]

Thank you! I've only been feeding freeze dried blood worms for a week and have been having horrid allergy attacks during the day and after I do a WC. (I'm sitting here itching as we speak and yep, fed them the danged worms as a bedtime snack tonight)

I actually thought maybe there was something wrong with my water params...some weird pathogen or something, when my finger broke out in hives tonight.
Once I started reading I took a good look at the hive covered area of my finger and hand (it spread up to my wrist) and lo and behold, I have a small paper cut on that finger.

I also get itchy, swollen eyes and have had several asthma attacks in the last week.
I did notice that the attacks were precipitated by the BW dust that flies out of the container when I shake it, so I stopped doing the shaking method and started digging them out by hand. Traded one problem for another, huh? LOL

I do have allergies to other things like pine, chocolate, etc., but never would have connected the blood worms to this if not for this thread. So thank you again!

SB

[White Worm]

Yep, allergic to them too. I too noticed the fact that even after I stopped use, I would have problems when putting my arms in the tank like Al described. That stuff can hang around for a while.

[moon_knight1971]

Guess I'm lucky and since I have no issues using Hikari FBW as part of my regular feeding regiment of beefheart, flakes and freeze dried black worms

[jimmyjoe]

Touchie subject don't go there........................LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOl..... ...............Sorry Jim

[Ryan]

I'm not sure why this is a touchy subject, or why you think people cannot be allergic to bloodworms. Bloodworms are midge larvae. See more info here: http://www.naturegrid.org.uk/pondexplorer/gallery/bloodwrm.html

A quick Google search will turn up several pages full of info, including this study done on chironomid larvae (bloodworm) allergies: http://www.jiaci.org/issues/vol16issue01/11.pdf

[jimmyjoe]

Sorry, I didn't say anything to the fact of allergic reaction's I'm allergic to bee's believe me I know, never mind. I don't want to start a arguement have a nice evening..........Jim

[ganesan]

In my experiance i feed them rarely for a change but take certain precautions.First i wash the live worms i get in chennai properly in a sieve and then i buy liquid metronidazole,ciprofloxacin and levofloxacin from the pharmacies and pour 50 ml of each of these in a small plastic bucket together with the worms and aerate this to prevent worms from dyieng for a couple of hours.Then i take a piece of clean cloth and pour this into the cloth with another bucket below to collect the draining liquid.When i collect all the bloodworms in the cloth i transfer them into a plastic container and put them in a deep freezer.The next day a break chunks of them and feed my discus.They eat them voraciously and in my BB tank i can see their faeces are black so i know that apart from feeding their favourite food i had also dewormed them internally.
ganesan,
chennai,
india

[brewmaster15]

In my experiance i feed them rarely for a change but take certain precautions.First i wash the live worms i get in chennai properly in a sieve and then i buy liquid metronidazole,ciprofloxacin and levofloxacin from the pharmacies and pour 50 ml of each of these in a small plastic bucket together with the worms and aerate this to prevent worms from dyieng for a couple of hours.Then i take a piece of clean cloth and pour this into the cloth with another bucket below to collect the draining liquid.When i collect all the bloodworms in the cloth i transfer them into a plastic container and put them in a deep freezer.The next day a break chunks of them and feed my discus.They eat them voraciously and in my BB tank i can see their faeces are black so i know that apart from feeding their favourite food i had also dewormed them internally.
ganesan,
chennai,
india

Hi,
No offense, but thats an aweful lot of work to clean Blood worms up, and pretreating these Bloodworms as you are with these meds...
metronidazole,ciprofloxacin and levofloxacin is not something I would advise...It most likely will not prevent
anything, especially in the short treatment time you are using, but will contribute greatly to antibiotic resistance..a serious problem these days ...Metro and cipro are critical medications to humans ...Please think about this when you use them.

Thank you,
Al

[nbk8s4b]

Just feed them occasionally and you should be fine

[ericatdallas]

anything, especially in the short treatment time you are using, but will contribute greatly to antibiotic resistance..a serious problem these days ...Metro and cipro are critical medications to humans ...Please think about this when you use them.



+1, please don't misuse/overuse/blindly-use medications because you're going to create resistant forms for no good reason that could impact treating fish and human diseases.