Fast ammonia removal with RO water?

[Latro]

Hi, this is my first discus tank which I just fully set up about 5 days ago; that is the discus that are in it have been in it for 5 days. It had been cycling for about 6 weeks or so before that, first with fishless cycling for about 4 weeks and then another 2 or so with 4 cories, at which point I was getting numbers like it had fully cycled. I then added 4 small (3'' or less) discus; this is a 36 gallon, lightly planted tank.

I lost one discus from issues that I think were the supplier's fault within a day, and replaced it on the third day. My newest fish seems stressed, and when I took a reading my ammonia turned out to be 1 ppm (though nitrites were zero)! I think I may have added to the bioload too fast, since I had no problems before adding the discus, or perhaps I overfed.

I'm attempting to reduce that level quickly now, as best I can, but my tank uses RO water, and so I am afraid to try to prepare a bunch of tap water and do a large water change with that; meanwhile I can't make RO water all that fast, as most of you probably already know. I did a change with the few gallons I had around, added stresszyme and enough prime for the entire tank, and am making more RO water now, but how much of a problem would it be to use tap for a significant (40%+) change in a system that is used to RO water? My tap water is significantly alkaline, pH around 7.5 or so, with very high GH and moderate KH; my RO water uses the discus dose of RO Right and so is very soft and of course neutral.

[ericatdallas]

I do a WC of 80% one to three times a day straight from the tap. Just add chlorine remover. I have hard tap water with PH ~7. I can't remember the other parameters for my tap.

[TURQ64]

If you have a LFS nearby, perhaps you can get an ammonia absorber to help you along with the water change...What's the R/O ph?? if it's not too far off from your tap, you'll be alright with some dechlorinator.. I fthe fish that died was in there long, you'll need a good water change regardless.HTH, Gary

[Latro]

If you have a LFS nearby, perhaps you can get an ammonia absorber to help you along with the water change...What's the R/O ph?? if it's not too far off from your tap, you'll be alright with some dechlorinator.. I fthe fish that died was in there long, you'll need a good water change regardless.HTH, Gary
RO pH is 7; tap pH is about 7.5; tank pH is about 6.8. I've changed the water pretty vigorously since the fish died, and I also did not allow him to die in the tank (although he was in quite bad shape for a number of hours).

[kaceyo]

The Prime your adding will detoxify the ammonia in your tank so it is harmless. I''d guess that your pH is low enough that the ammonias toxicity is very low anyways since your using RO water.
Why are you using RO? It's generaly not needed to raise discus, in fact harder water is considered benificial for juvies as they use the minerals to grow.
You may want to watch your pH as it will tend to drop quickly with only RO water and RO Right and no buffer.
I'd suggest that you acclimate them to your tap water and skip the RO entirley

[TURQ64]

I rely on R/O due to the high ph where my water comes from (8.9-9.1 out of the tap), so I do understand your situation, but the ammonia has to come down one way or another in your tank, IMO...The problem with R/O is in it's ability to swing, due to a lack of minerals...

[nc0gnet0]

Just to changes with a 50% Ro tap water mix and treat with ammo lock until your filter recovers.

Rick

[Latro]

After the first change with heavy use of prime and a larger change with 50% RO and 50% tap, my test kit reads <0.25 ppm ammonia. It's not zero (I can put it next to my tap to see that), but it's below the first increment. So that's good.

As for my using RO water, when I was using tap water, which I was both the entire time before and for some time after adding the cories, I couldn't get the pH to drop (wasn't using chemicals or anything, but cycling wasn't bringing it down), and it was (as I thought at the time, anyway) too high, staying around the tap pH of 7.5-7.6 or so. I got it to drop slowly, and since then it has stayed pretty stable thus far (I also have a small filter with peat granules in it, by the way), and I keep my eye on the KH to make sure it stays that way as well.

Thank you all, by the way.

[TURQ64]

Discus will do fine between 7 and 8..stable ph is more important,

[nc0gnet0]

I would kill for a ph of 7.5 out of the tap............

[Latro]

Wish I had joined this forum BEFORE dropping the money on the RO unit then, jeez...any particular suggestions on moving away from it? It seems wrong to be adding 7.5 to a system that's like 6.8 in good-sized amounts, wouldn't that cause spikes?

[ericatdallas]

RO might come in handy if you breed... What kind of filtration do you have?

[Latro]

RO might come in handy if you breed... What kind of filtration do you have?
I have a Marineland filter with a bio-wheel, not sure if there's anything else to say.

[Jhhnn]

If you're using Prime, the only test kit that will give accurate results wrt toxic free ammonia and harmless ammonium is the Seachem ammonia kit-

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/MT_Ammonia.html

Other kits convert ammonium to ammonia in the process of measuring, and give false high readings. It'll drive you crazy.

Raising PH isn't much of an issue for the fish, not if done in a reasonable fashion. Change 1/3 of the water today, 1/3 tomorrow and so forth, until PH is nearly the same in the tank as from the tap- after that, change as much as you want. Your plants may not do as well in hard water of higher PH, but there's a tradeoff here...

[ericatdallas]

I have a Marineland filter with a bio-wheel, not sure if there's anything else to say.

Did you happen to change the media recently?

[Latro]

Did you happen to change the media recently?
No, although I am fairly sure that that did slow my cycle down. I had to change the media either one or two times due to buildup from laterite on the filter during the fishless cycle. That'll teach me not to rinse my laterite thoroughly before adding it to the tank, jeez! (In subsequent plantings I've had no trouble, though, it just needs a good rinse before going in the tank).

[Latro]

Well the newest fish didn't make it :( He had been stressed since he got in there, though. But I don't think this one was the supplier's fault, I just don't know what I did wrong exactly (since the other three that are still here seem fine).

Anyway, although I don't have time to do it now, I obviously need to do another big water change today, since I don't actually know how long the fish was dead in there (under 8 hours, but he died overnight). Any recommendations on RO vs. tap for this?