Amazonia proyect 75gal high-tech

[biotopica]

Hi, this is my first post in this forum. First of all, sorry my English because i´m from Spain.

I´m gonna start my new proyect... a humble 75 gallon tank.

My actual equipment is as follows:

- Tank: 92cm x 55cm x 60 cm (long x wide x deep) (36" x 22" X 24")
- Filtration: Fluval G6
- UV light (JBL)
- CO2 (JBL Proflora M603, with pH controller)
- Lighting: T5 6x39w (with sunrise/sunset controller)

My idea is to relate and document (photos) this new proyect frome the begining to the end result, whenever this happens.

The stocking plan is as follows (suggestions are very welcomed):

- 5 adult hybrid discus, same strain
- About 18 Hemigrammus rhodostomus or Paracheirodon simulans
- 6 Corydoras sterbai
- 1 male ancistrus
- 1 female Ancistrus
- Maybe a group (5 to begin with) Cherry Shrimp

Depending on the final choose of the discus strain, I will go for one or the other schooling fish; My actual options are:

a) If cobalt or blue turquoise discus : then Hemigrammus rhodostomus
b) If red melon or marlboro red discus : then Paracheirodon simulans

As for the tank setup, I´m still debating myself between two basic options despite my full equipment:

1.- Biotope (well, not very pure since I dont want to have wild discus for the moment): white sand, quite a lot of mopani wood, some Echinodorus and maybe some moss on the wood; peat to tint the water a litle bit.

2.- "Not so natural": white sand, some mopani wood, quite a lot of Echinodorus (bleheri, parviflora, tenellus), Blyxia japonica, Vallisneria, Rotala macrandra, Java fern and Java moss.

My doubts come here:

1a).- PROS for the biotope option:

I really like the "biotope" look with tinted tea water, and i found it definetely more natural for the discus. The examples of Heiko Bleher and Jeff Senske are really inspiring. More economic in the middle term (as for lights, etc) and, apparently, less work to do (as for not trimming so often, cleaning, etc). Less algae.

1b).- CONS for the biotope option:
I would be "under using" the potential of my equipment, since I would use only (maybe) 3x39w tubes and I would not use (maybe) the CO2, so I would have to recognize my investment error (:angry:). Lack of natural filtration.

2a).- PROS for the "Not so natural" option:
I really like some planted tanks I see around the world (not heavily planted like jungles). Filtration capabilities of plants. I would be making use of my investment in equipment (full light, CO2, etc).

2b).- CONS for the "Not so natural" option:
Definetely more work (trimming, fighting algae, etc). More money (lights, CO2, etc). Unnatural ambiance for the discus.

So... waht to choose? May i combine both options succesfully (maybe using CO2 and full/amost full lights with just some plants)? Or this last option would be sentenced to an ever ending algae battle fight?

I hope u can help me to make a decision, any suggestion is welcomed in advanced.

Thank´s.

[biotopica]

Any suggestions?

[Discus Origins]

You listed a lot of options but I'll just give you my opinion. First, a biotope should not be stocked with domestic discus. That being said, they will be used to bright lighting and you can use CO2 and fully plant the tank to it's potential.

There is really no reason to tint the water, that's more for wild fish. A true biotope would only have driftwood with no plants except some floating coverage. So my suggestion for you is to go all the way with it and use the equipment you have already invested in and set up a brightly lit planted tank since it sounds like the look you prefer anyways.

That way you will enjoy it and not second guess yourself on what else you could have done to the tank.

Mark

[greengreen84]

it's a hard one to decide, but with the depth it would be a niece planted tank and shrimps love bushy plants like blyxa to hide in and play, and grab 20 to start with if you have only 5 you will never see them lol

[biotopica]

Well... My tank is just cycling since 5 days ago.

Finally the set up is as follow:
- Pool filter sand, clear cream colour, about 6cm average deep, no nutritive substrate.
- Red moor roots.
- Plants as today: Vallisneria gigantea, Vallisneria mini twister, Ludwigia arcuata, Cyperus heleferi, Echinodorus bleheri and christmas and willow moss. Planning to get some Blyxa japonica, some java fern on pebbles, some frogbit and some anubia.

The animal stock will be: 8 Corydoras sterbai, 20 rummynose, pair of ancistrus, 5 adult discus (same strain), plus some shrimps (doubt between cherry or amano).

Here are some pictures:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8201.jpg
Cabinet with pH controler and CO2, UV lamp, and Fluval G6.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8225.jpg
Tank (75 gallon) with 6x39w T5 (4 x 6500ºK; 2 x 4000ºK)

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8254.jpg
Filling it.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8260.jpg
Side view

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8258.jpg
Frontal view

At the moment i´m not running the UV to let the bacteries colonize the filter, and i´m gin fishless cycling.

My current parameters are:
pH= 6.43 (with the CO2 help, otherwise my tap water is 7.0)
KH=1-2
Temp = 28ºC
Conductivity= 150
I still havent measured for NH3 nor NO2 nor NO3 due to the cycling phase.

Any comments or sugestions are welcome.

Thx

[Darrell Ward]

You could have bought a brand new 125 gal. aquarium for what that fancy gizmo filter cost alone! I looked it up, and it doesn't filter any better than a traditional canister filter. Good luck on the project.

[biotopica]

You could have bought a brand new 125 gal. aquarium for what that fancy gizmo filter cost alone! I looked it up, and it doesn't filter any better than a traditional canister filter. Good luck on the project.

Very constructive post.

That filter is second hand, and for the price it took, i bet i couldn´t have bought that 125 gal.

[Darrell Ward]

:D I think you may have taken it the wrong way. People that buy that fancy overpriced aquarium equipment only encourages the Mfg. to start putting the fancy bells and whistles on their other models in order to raise the cost of them too. See my point? I'm glad you bought it second hand. At least that's one less Fluval sold. :)

[Skip]

How are cycling the tank

[biotopica]

How are cycling the tank

Just plants and wood.... and let time... today some green algae is beginnig to coat my sand... let´s see how it develops.

[biotopica]

:D I think you may have taken it the wrong way. People that buy that fancy overpriced aquarium equipment only encourages the Mfg. to start putting the fancy bells and whistles on their other models in order to raise the cost of them too. See my point? I'm glad you bought it second hand. At least that's one less Fluval sold. :)

Respectable opinion, but i think u should post this complains in other subforum.

[Skip]

um.. i don't think you tank is cycling. if you there is no amommonia for the bacteria to break down and start the nitrogen cycle..

[biotopica]

um.. i don't think you tank is cycling. if you there is no amommonia for the bacteria to break down and start the nitrogen cycle..

Thx... i thought the decomposed leafs of some plants would do the job... to be sure I will add a pinch of fish food to speed it up.

Thx for ur input.

[Skip]

Try straight ammonia... Some say decaying food can carry dome nasties kn top of ammonia

[DiscusKev]

Really look real good!

[biotopica]

Today (8th day of cycling) im noticing some brilliant green stuff on my sand, and some green on my glass, so i´ve turned off the light, and tomorrow i will restart lights with less photoperiod (4 hours instead of the 8 hours i had till yesterday). ¿Something wrong?

I guess the Ludwigia as my only stem plant is not enough for so much light...

I´ve tested parameters and these are the results so far:

- NH4= indetectable (Salifert test, but out of date).
- NO2= indetectable (Salifert)
- NO3= i´d say 0.5 (Salifert, out of date again).

[Gohans_Onna]

Have you started adding an ammonia source?

Have you been doing water changes or mixing up your sand? You said you have 6 cm of sand, that seems really thick for sand and seems like it would have a higher chance to hold all kinds of nastiness in a deeper bed.

Definitely try lowering the photo period of light on your tank. I "thought" my tank was cycled after about two months and then had the biggest algae bloom I've ever had in my life. The water was so green I couldn't see into it. I had a UV filter, fluval 405 and fx5 hooked up, and nothing worked. It sucked because I had tons of plants in the tank, but I put a blanket over it for three days and it completely killed it. Let us know how the green stuff goes :)

[edosan]

looking good!

[biotopica]

As u stated, i have re-start the cycling fishless method, adding ammonia till 4-5 ppm five days ago.

As today, valus are:
- NH4= 1.5ppm
- NO2= 0.10 ppm.

Lights are on 8 hours with 2 hours break.

Algae (filamentous green) are abundant, i guess is normal.

Thx.

[Sean Buehrle]

I like the look of your tank, good job on the wood. I dont know much about sand depth, but it sounds like you have it deep. Might wanna get some more opinions on that. Ive seen alot of complaints on sand depth lately.. Lookin good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[discolicious]

Bienvenido! What part of Spain are you from? I lived in Sevilla for 10 years and miss it a lot. I have 2 tanks with sand substrate and I think it is about as deep as yours, which is needed to hold the roots of the plants. I haven't had any problems with mine. I have not been able to keep Ludwigia.. the heat is a bit too much. Maybe you will have better suerte.

Tom

[rickztahone]

Today (8th day of cycling) im noticing some brilliant green stuff on my sand, and some green on my glass, so i´ve turned off the light, and tomorrow i will restart lights with less photoperiod (4 hours instead of the 8 hours i had till yesterday). ¿Something wrong?

I guess the Ludwigia as my only stem plant is not enough for so much light...

I´ve tested parameters and these are the results so far:

- NH4= indetectable (Salifert test, but out of date).
- NO2= indetectable (Salifert)
- NO3= i´d say 0.5 (Salifert, out of date again).

the problem you will have is that you have too much light imo. unless you crank up that co2 to levels where livestock will not be able to survive, then you will be fighting a never-ending battle with algae. you can try using less bulbs, raising the fixture, shortening photo-period or add a black out during the day.

[Gohans_Onna]

Your biological filter will be able to combat all that green stuff once it gets adjusted. Once I did a 72 hour black out on my tank, my water was crystal clear, and I had T5 high output bulbs on for 12 hours a day, no issues and not a speck of algae :)

[biotopica]

Well... the sand depth is like 1 inch in the front and 4 inches in the back... where the Echinodorus and Vallisneria are.

Continue doing the fishless cycling, adding some ammonia when it drops near 0. Nitrites are still very low (0.25ppm) but at least noticeable.

In respect to the lights, how much would u think it would be safer with the plants i´m having? (i have them on a controller, so i can dim lights as i want toreduce the total output of 234w...)

Green filamentous algae keep growing on glass, wood, mosses and sand mostly, and a little bit on the plants. However, Echinodorus is sprouting new leaves every 3-4 days (no root tabs yet, just pool sand), Vallisnerias are throwing some new plants close to them, and Ludwigia is growing fairly well i guess.

I can reduce the photoperiod, or raise the lights, or put less bulbs, or just dim down the lights, but I think (maybe in error) that is better not to do so by now due to the huge amount of ammonia added, so the plants can take use of it apart from the biofilter... the bad side of that are the algae growing.

When the cycling is finished, i want to add one bristlenose to get rid of the algae, but i´m a little bit afraid of it eating the Echinodorus (shrimps are not an option due to the open top, nor are otocinclus or SAE sue to them stressing the future discus).

Here are some photos as today:

Wood detail with white fungus, moss and algae:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8287-ciclado-dia-123.jpg

Side view:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8290-ciclado-dia-123.jpg

Front view:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8285-ciclado-dia-123.jpg

You can notice the Salvinia minima and Water lettuce added.

PS: Discolicious, I´m from Madrid, but my mother was from Sevilla. Un saludo desde aquí, and just as a joke i give u this letter "ñ"

[Gohans_Onna]

Well sand can always hold anaerobic pockets. Have you been doing water changes? If so, are you stirring your sand?

I've had white sand before and hated it, lol. It always looked dirty no matter what I did, and I work too much to be nitpicking over it every single day lol. It also did the same thing yours is doing and I would mix it up and it would go away.

Your algae problem is only going to get worse btw lol. Your water will probably start turning green too.

I got rid of my algae entirely by doing a 72 hour black out. There were no lights at all and I covered the entire tank with thick blankets. NO PEEKING. Everything disappeared, but some of my plants suffered. My amazon swords had leaves that started turning yellow--I just trimmed them off. My anubias and some other plant I have with thin and long leaves did just fine :) But it's a waiting period at this point. Try not to use chemicals, it messes with your biological filter.

[Gohans_Onna]

Also, I've never seen that white mold looking stuff before...looks like it came from the wood itself.

[treker5]

Personally - I think you made up your mind as far as the type of aquascape design you are trying to achieve; you have all the equipment to create a nicely "natural planted" tank... and I say go for it!! Nothing is permanent and you can redo your canvas anytime. The main point is to enjoy sculpting and let your imagination run free. Yes there are pros and cons to a planted tank but when its time to trim you can sculpt and shape the plants to fit your eyes....this is the real beauty of a planted tank. I look forward to seeing more of your art work

James

[pastry]

the white stuff on the wood is totally normal. hell, i had already put my discus in the tank when the wood still had the white stuff. you can whipe it off easily. after a month from when it first appears then it'll be gone.

i used a sand bottom (not gravel) and haven't had the problem with the algea on it. gohans' correct on saying that you may have a problem keeping the white/natural gravel the original color.

duck weed & i have a love/hate relationship: i like it when there's not much but then it sometimes multiplies rapidly (which is actually an alarm to me that i've slacked on water changes... so entail it's a good thing but still a nusance; once it's in the tank, you'll never get rid of it).

looks good.

[biotopica]

I´m not worried about the white fungus (already going) nor I have duck weed (is salvinia).

I´m having a pH crash during the fishless cycling: it went down to 6.08... my KH is 2º.

[biotopica]

The pH crash is getting worse: today it felt till 5.83... i did a 50% water change and the problem is still evident.

Should i add sodium bicarbonate?

If so, after the cycling is finished should i keep adding the bicarbonate to stabilize the pH, or is something temporaly during the cycling? The nitric acid causing the crash is linked to my water, or t my filter?

[Yowi]

Nice setup... :)

[dbfzurowski]

Very nice looking tank(minus the green sand :). Filter looks good too!
I cant help you to much on the ph drops, I hear baking soda will rise the hardness of your water and keep ph stable.
As far as algae goes, I didnt read much so I dont know if your dosing anything, I assume you dont and since you dont, you will always get algae.
I'm no planted tank expert but I followed dosing regiments from here http://www.rexgrigg.com/index.html and I had awesome looking plants, like never before!!! I stopped dosing for about a month and I got algae everywhere, plants turn yellow then brown! So read everything on that website, go on ebay, buy a scale and the fertilizers and watch your tank grow!

[biotopica]

My pH crash keeps going down the road... as now is in 5.45...

Shall i add potasium bicarbonate to raise the KH (0º-1º now), or shall i leave it? After all, the advantages of that acidity are several: no bacterial infections, no real need to use the biological filter as ammonia at that pH is not toxic... but im afraid of my water changes, as my tap water is pH 7.0 and KH 2º-3º...

Sugestions?

PS: Yowi, me encanta tu blog, lo sigo desde hace mucho. Un saludo.

[biotopica]

I added some potassium bicarbonate and things keep going to normality.

My values as today are:
- NH4= <0.05ppm
- NO2= 0.1ppm

I wont add anymore ammonium, and will wait till the nitrites drop to 0 to add one ancistrus.

[greengreen84]

to keep your tank stable you will need to keep your GH or KH to 6 to 8 dkh to keep it stable but be careful if you have livestock it will send them into shock if you do too much at once or in one day, just remember that plants will use calcium and other minerals to survive and this may make your general hardness low so you need to replace it with a fert schedule etc the Estimative index (EI)

You have to take into account that at your ph levels, your bacteria will have almost decycled it self not being able to survive at that ph or have very little surviving and having to cycle again, but every thing should be fine once you add a little bit of bi-carb soda for hardness also if you want to avoid a algae bloom or major algae problems keep your lighting to low to medium and have alot of fast growing stems to catch any extra nutrients in the water so algae doesn't use it and start to pop up every where but good luck hope this helps

[biotopica]

Well, after the pH dropped till 5.23, i added some potassium bicarbonate (9gr + 8gr 24 hours after) to raise my alkalinity from 0º to 2º dKH, so i can conclude that, in my case, i needed 1.8gr for every 25 litres (about 6 US gallons) to raise 2º.

Happyly, my cycling has ended (28 days since first filled, 18 days since first ammonia added) with:

- NH4= <0.05 ppm
- NO2= 0 ppm
- NO3= 20-40 ppm

So, i made a 50% water change and introduce the first fish: one Ancistrus sp.3 about 1.5"

Fortunately, the pH is now stable and gobernated by the pH controller via CO2, set at 6.43 with 0.10 range (so, pH oscilates between 6.53 and 6.33), with KH of 1.5º (i know that the CO2 is a bit too low according to the charts, but i don´t have a lot of plants and prefer to be on the safe side by the moment).

[DiscusMental]

Hi how do you find the G6 filter does it ever rattle at all ? I have got one but when I started it up it rattled like hell something about trapped air have you ever had a problem? Thanks

[biotopica]

Hi how do you find the G6 filter does it ever rattle at all ? I have got one but when I started it up it rattled like hell something about trapped air have you ever had a problem? Thanks

No, no rattle at all. It works fine... only problem is the mechanical prefilter cartridge clogs quite easily, reducing the flow.

[biotopica]

Added today 8 Corydoras sterbai (1.5")... or maybe they are C. haraldschultzi.

Ill post photos as soon as I can.

[biotopica]

A little update.

Bad photo of the Ancistrus close to the filter intake. It is quite timid and difficult to see:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8316.jpg

Some of the Corydoras sterbai (they are sterbai... notice the white spots on black):

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8323.jpg

Side view. Notice the growth of the Ludwigia arcuata ad the Echinodorus bleheri:

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8319.jpg

Really awful frontal view (sorry for the dirty glass). The Salvinia minima is doing great, and the Vallisnerias are constantly throwing new runners. (The whitish spot on the mid right are the Corys):

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j365/eduardo751/IMG_8324.jpg

Overall, the tank is doing nice and steady. Algae is receding (maybe is the Ancistrus) and the only noticeable problem now is a plague of green Hygra on sand and glass and wood.

Thanks.